u/Szalony20

Hey.

Liandrin, Sevanna, Galina, Suroth, Elaida, and Moghedien.

Each of these characters ends up as slaves.

Moghedien and Elaida as damane.

Liandrin is currently a da'covale, but that could change if she and Moghedien meet in captivity... And every secret simply comes to light.

Suroth is a traitor, and Tuon is particularly keen on Suroth suffering as punishment for her betrayal.

Sevanna is the captured commander of an enemy army, but the Shaido simply don't matter anymore, so she could simply be a trophy. And given her beauty, she could potentially be a shea dancer like Amathera earlier.

Galina became Therava's slave, and now, Therava can torture Galina to her heart's content.

In my opinion, Galina got the worst of it.

Sevanna might suffer the least because of her beauty and least importance to the Seanchan.

Elaida and Moghedien... Yeah, the damane's fate will definitely be hard on them.

Liandrin will suffer more when the truth about her comes to light.

Suroth will have a hard time as a traitor, but perhaps in time Tuon will forget that Suroth mattered at all and should suffer especially.

So I think:

1. Galina (the most intense suffering)

2. Elaida

3. Liandrin (after it's revealed she should be a damane)

4. Moghedien

5. Suroth

6. Sevanna

Generally, I think damane will simply suffer more than da'covale (though obviously each case is unique), and Galina is the worst off because she has a personal sadist focused on her suffering.

So, what do you think?

Hey.

I think the Shaido storyline is one of those instances where readers would especially like to see it cut, or at least shortened.

However, that storyline continued until Knife of Dreams.

What did it bring?

Perrin learned about leadership (which had already happened before) and persevered in his love for Faile when she wasn't there and Berelain was there. He also gained the respect of the Seanchan.

Faile tried to save herself, but it didn't work out, and Perrin had to save her. She also became more of a leader—though here, she didn't necessarily have to acquire those traits as a slave.

We got Rolan and his companions as... well, not good Shaido, but better Shaido.

They all died.

Galina received a lot of punishment from Therava and Sevanna (mainly Therava) as part of her karma and ended up in eternal slavery to Therava, which... Well, that was an exaggeration, but in my headcanon, Therava didn't live long after escaping with the remnants of the Shaido, so I accept it. I mean, let Galina suffer, but let's not call that suffering Therava, because I hated her to the same extent.

Sevanna ended up naked, tied up, and thrown over Tylee's horse as a war trophy, and probably a da'covale, perhaps the dancer Shea, due to her beauty. We got a small glimpse of what awaited her when Tylee placed her helmet on her buttocks, and then, when Sevanna tried to fall off her horse, Tylee slapped her on the buttocks.

This sight of a humiliated Sevanna (with jewelry falling from her golden hair) was supposed to give us the satisfaction of knowing she got what she deserved. After all, how many times have Faile and her companions been in such a humiliating state because of Sevanna? Although bidding farewell to a female antagonist while naked, tied up, and thrown over a horse as a war trophy is certainly an odd choice, even if also oddly fitting for this series.

In any case, this arc forced Perrin into cooperation with the Seanchan, where Tylee's respect for him was crucial later in the story regarding the Seanchan and their relationship with the Final Battle.

Faile and her companions had to endure a great deal of humiliation.

Galina and Sevanna got what they deserved, though readers would have preferred to see them die.

So, what are your thoughts on the Shaido arc and what it brought to the story? Do you see any reasons why it was good that it happened, or would you have cut/shortened it? Or maybe you don't mind this plot, but you would change something? For example, Rolan survive and Sevanna, Galina and Therava are killed.

Hey.

Galina, Sevanna, Liandrin, Suroth, Elaida, Moghedien – all these female antagonists ended up in captivity.

We know these fates are supposed to give us a sense of satisfaction, but do they really?

I decided to test it.

Row the characters from 1 to 6, where 1 is your greatest satisfaction with their fate, and 6 the least satisfaction.

For example:

1. Sevanna (most satisfaction)

2. Suroth

3. Elaida

4. Liandrin

5. Moghedien

6. Galina (least satisfaction)

You can justify your choices.

If you no felt satisfied in specific fate, indicate where.

Then imagine that you are deciding the fates of these characters and can either leave them unchanged or kill them off. Who do you leave in captivity, and who do you kill? Unless, in all cases, you kill or leave them captive.

For example:

They are killed instead of being captive - Liandrin, Elaida, Galina

They remain captive - Sevanna, Suroth, Moghedien

You can also justify your choices here.

Ps: I hope it's clear - killing a character is a change of karma form.

Hey. Yesterday, during a discussion under one post, I suggested that Isendre could be in the top 10 female characters from The Wheel of Time in terms of beauty.

This led to a question in the comment exchange: which female characters would be in such a top 10?

This is highly subjective, and I have a feeling that only Lanfear and Berelain would have an almost 100% chance of being in anyone's top 10.

It depends on whether, for example, physical attractiveness (many characters have large breasts) or facial beauty would be more important, etc.

If I were to subjectively choose my top 10, in no particular order, it would be:

- Lanfear

- Berelain

- Amathera

- Nynaeve

- Aviendha

- Elayne

- Morgase

- Sarene

- Sevanna

- Isendre

What would your top 10 be and would there be room for Isendre in it?

Gawyn, Elaida, Tylin, Sevanna, Galina, and Therava are some of the characters who seem most fit to my question. I rarely see anyone liking these characters; they're often mentioned in posts about the most disliked/hated characters and they're important to the plot.

If you like these characters, or others that fit the theme of the post, my question is—why do you like them? What makes you not have as low an opinion of them as most readers do? Because let's face it—even if these characters are antagonists with terrible personalities (expect Gawyn), there's something to like about them.

"As she rode closer, he realized she had a nude woman draped across her tall bay in front of the saddle. A woman bound at ankles and knees, wrists and elbows. Her long golden hair almost brushed the ground, and there were jeweled necklaces and ropes of pearls caught in it. A strand of large green stones and gold slid free and fell to the dirt as Tylee reined in. Removing her peculiar helmet with gauntleted hands, she rested it on the woman’s upturned bottom."

Did you immediately recognize nude woman as Sevanna?

"“Sevanna.” Faile said in a cold voice. The smell of her hatred was nearly as strong as it had been while speaking of Galina.

The golden-haired woman twisted herself upward, shaking hair out of her face and losing several more necklaces in the process. Her eyes, glaring at Faile, were green fire above a strip of cloth that had been tied for a gag. She stank of rage.

“Sevanna of the Jumai Shaido.” Satisfaction was strong in Tylee’s voice. “She told me so proudly. She’s no coward, either. Met us wearing nothing but a silk robe and her jewels, but she managed to spear two of my Altarans before I took it away from her.” Sevanna snarled through her gag and struggled as if to throw herself from the horse. Until Tylee smacked her bottom, anyway. After that, she contented herself with glaring at everyone in sight. She was nicely rounded, though he should not be noticing something like that with his wife there. Except that Elyas said she would expect him to notice, so he made himself study her openly."

That slap on her ass from Tylee... It's a good thing Tylee is not a man. And Perrin registers that Sevanna is attractive, because he thinks he should, no because she want this. Her attractiveness has been noted, but it's irrelevant. She won't seduce anyone with her large breasts in her current situation...Because I'm guessing Sevanna is currently lying on her stomach, so anyone can't even see them?

Overall, the fact that Sevanna is naked, bound, and gagged in front of Faile is satisfying because... How many times has Faile been naked because of Sevanna's captivity? How many times has Faile been spanked in that captivity?

And now we see a foretaste of what Sevanna will experience in captivity, same what Faile experienced in Sevanna's captivity.

And the fact that Tylee is a woman helps greatly that Sevanna's karma isn't sexual. If a male general had her naked, bound, and gagged, thrown in front of his saddle... Yeah, that would be controversial. And with Tylee, you can focus on Sevanna's karma.

What do you think?