u/TheLoneTexan_1

This is meant to be a more peaceful debate. I simply mean to ask that compared to other Nintendo IPs like Mario, Kirby, F-Zero, where would Star Fox rank? I think the remake and rumored adventure game sort of makes me look back at the franchise in retrospect. While Star Fox went dormant for ten years after Command and then ten years after Zero, it could be noted that Nintendo never really abandoned the franchise. Star Fox 64 was remade for the 3DS in 2011, five years after Command. Five years after that, Zero was made and then caused the longest gap between games. I frankly hate how Nintendo managed to kill this franchise right before the two most successful consoles they released. And every time after the SNES that Star Fox is released, it's on one of Nintendo's poorer performing consoles like the GameCube or the Wii U. This franchise honestly blew its potential back then...

But then I have to compare it to other Nintendo IPs. We love comparing it to Mario, Zelda, or Kirby, but the real comparisons for Star Fox are Metroid and F-Zero. Metroid has definitely done a lot better than Star Fox, but that's despite Nintendo kind of treating Metroid as an afterthought. Retro Studios transitioned Metroid into a first-person 3D game series well for Metroid Prime, but then there's the fact that Metroid releases games like Other M and Prime 4. But unlike Star Fox, Metroid recovers from them because they were spread apart and none were colossal failures like Zero. F-Zero, meanwhile, never got anything past GX until 99. Not even a remake of X for the 3DS or remaster of GX. Pikmin, meanwhile, has a lot of Nintendo favoritism when they got games while none sold over 1 million until it finally paid off on the Switch.

I'd honestly place Star Fox underneath Metroid, but above F-Zero and Kid Icarus. Pikmin is over Metroid, but that's because Pikmin 4 made shockingly high sales numbers. I think Nintendo could be wanting to make Star Fox a mainstay again and has tried to with Zero (and save the Wii U).

What are your thoughts?

The sales figures for Star Fox 2026 never breached a million in six days according to Nintendo's financial report for its second quarter. However, this is actually completely fine. Star Fox games have never sold amazingly well past the original 64 release. And as mentioned, the sales figures were capped after six days and were said to be selling steadily. Honestly, I would be more concerned for Yoshi fans as Yoshi is far more well-known due to being linked to Mario and not being remarkable enough in sales to warrant particular notice for high sales.

Anyways, I am thoroughly done with 64 remakes comprising the majority of the franchise. This remake wouldn't have been as insulting if Zero wasn't yet another remake of Star Fox 64 but with atrocious controls. I think more than anything, this should be a shot of humility for the 64 diehards to realize that the 64 format is dated. They'd argue the game is still really fun, and it is. But it's also too short to justify that price tag. That and their demands that every game needs to be pure vehicular gameplay and with branching paths aren't exactly in demand anymore. And while they may not care about the franchise being popular, Nintendo sure cares about getting a profit.

If that adventure Star Fox is true, this backs up my main theory that Star Fox 2026 was mostly a quick cash crab and publicity stunt to get Star Fox on the radar again to sell the next game, using the most uncontroversial game in the series. If the Assault Remaster rumor was true, it could've been iced entirely to make way for the 64 remake and new adventure game to actually revive the franchise. All I know is that the next game cannot be purely vehicular and only two hours long. Sonic Forces was dragged through the ringer for being only three hours long (and not being a good game, but that's besides the point) and Star Fox 2026 also caught flack for that. While the old-school gamers clamored for "trimming the fat" of every game until it became purely arcade-like with only a few hours of playtime, I think "the fat" is a good component of games when executed well. The Sonic Adventure games were short and arcade-like, but they also included the Chao Garden, several types of missions, and split the game into two stories. There were also thirty levels to that game, which is more than the number of levels in Star Fox.

Star Fox needs more to it. I could see the Holoviewer returning, perhaps a Great Fox hub world, and maybe have a lot of side content on the planets to occupy some time. There just needs to be something more than a two hour game, no matter how good. That and I want the characters to actually be explored because they're the strongest part of the franchise.

Everyone has been discussing how Star Fox was mentioned as performing "steadily" in the Nintendo Financial Report and there has been concern about the franchise. This is my take.

Star Fox has been a franchise on life support ever since Command. In the time of going onto life support, Kid Icarus Uprising released on the 3DS as one of the best rail shooters of all time, Splatoon became Nintendo's massive third-person shooter franchise starting with the Wii U, and a generation has grown up with no new Star Fox game. The franchise is mostly popular among mainly older gamers with children and teenagers not really caring about the franchise. The gameplay of classic Star Fox is now considered dated in the sense that short, arcade-like rail shooter games are no longer big releases. In addition, Star Fox 2026 is a remake of Star Fox 64, which is on NSO. So people with NSO are probably not going to buy Star Fox 2026 since they could play the original and many people have played 64 already. This sounds really negative, but it's mostly to paint a picture that Star Fox is in a niche genre now and has been ever since the early 00s.

With that in mind, Star Fox 2026 seems to have been a quick and cheap game on Nintendo's part to cash in on Fox McCloud appearing in the Super Mario Galaxy Movie. The game had hardly any marketing as most Nintendo marketing went towards Yoshi, Pokopia, and Splatoon Raiders, all of which were new games that Nintendo believed would be massive sellers. Star Fox 2026, by merit of being a really short game and a remake to boot, was probably never expected to be a system seller or massive success. By saying it sold steadily, it means that Nintendo generally saw it as profitable and not as a mistake. The sales cutoff was also only after a few days in June. We have to wait for November to get the true numbers.

My prediction is that Star Fox 2026 is going to sell in the ballpark of 1 to 2 million copies by the end of the year. It's not astounding, but it'd be near the numbers that Adventures sold. This is a good thing since Star Fox games released after Adventures like Assault and Command. Nintendo showed off Adventures during the Direct, so clearly it made decent enough sales for them to acknowledge. I'd say that if the adventure Star Fox is real, that's the game that Nintendo wants to really heavily promote as it'd be new and the intended revival of the franchise with the remake being to cash in on the movie. If the adventure game is fake, then Nintendo will probably have Velan make a budget sequel to Star Fox 2026 within the next four to five years.

I get it was useful while promoting Star Fox back in the 90s with the puppets being somewhat interesting and that Star Fox was heavily inspired by Thunderbirds, but I feel like it's something that should've stayed with the SNES Star Fox. I know there are works that use puppets well. Dark Crystal, The Muppets, and OG Trilogy Star Wars all used puppets to decent effect, but those aren't really applicable to Star Fox. All of those were in the realm of television, where puppets allowed bypassing special effects tech limitations and allowed actors to interact with clearly nonhuman beings. OG Star Wars had puppets to represent aliens that were vastly different from humans like Yoda, so they used a puppet for him so he could talk to a live-action Luke Skywalker. For The Dark Crystal, that was an aesthetic choice chosen because one of the directors was Jim Henson, who worked on The Muppets. And The Muppets use puppets because it's iconic for them and it's that franchise's core tenet.

The Thunderbirds inspiration has some people saying it has merit, but I don't exactly see that as a reason to keep that aesthetic permanently. Thunderbirds was rather unusual for using puppets compared to its contemporaries like Star Trek. It was because using sci-fi vehicles at the time was hard to film. Star Trek averted this by having the characters just be teleported down to the surface. But this was mainly an issue of it being in the 60s. Once the 60s were over, the Thunderbirds series would have every future adaptation ditch the style, leaning towards either anime, live-action, CGI live-action hybrid.

Now onto Star Fox, I really only see the puppets in SNES Star Fox and somewhat in Zero. Star Fox 2 erred more towards a cartoony style, 64 was just early 3D polygons. If you don't believe me, look at early PS1 games like Final Fantasy 7 outside of pre-rendered cutscenes. Cloud Strife looks kind of like a puppet in some of them despite not being the intended aesthetic. While there could be an argument about the mouth movement in 64, Fox McCloud notably has a muzzle which Mario and Link, as humans, don't have. So Fox has to open and close his mouth that oddly while Link pretty much as a face that is painted on and Mario doesn't really have cutscenes outside of the title screen. Back on topic, the GCN games definitely don't have a puppet aesthetic, but a lot of people like pretending those games don't exist. Command is a DS game which tried to use 2D versions of 3D renders, so it just looks odd. 64 3DS is a polished and updated look of 64. Even Zero could be argued to be going for a more cartoon/anime art style. And then SF 2026 is really just going for a realistic look with any puppet-like appearances just being the result of making realistic anthropomorphic characters.

Anyways, not a fan of the puppets for the franchise and would like it if the characters didn't use that as a strong basis. Also think the puppets could be retired as 64 is now the nostalgia point instead of SNES like with Zero.

So, this is a hypothetical scenario, but what if all Star Fox members in any iteration of the franchise had their own counterparts in Star Wolf? Think as if there's some future game where a larger Star Fox encounters Star Wolf. Gameplay-wise, it'd be a nightmare due to sheer length, but we're not thinking that way. Imagine all members are competent enough to shoot down their rivals.

The members of Star Fox are as follows: Fox, Falco, Peppy, Slippy, Krystal, Miyu, Fay

The current members of Star Wolf are as follows: Wolf, Leon, Pigma, Andrew, Algy, Panther

For Star Fox, you could also add their allies while for Star Wolf, you are allowed to remove Star Wolf members and add original ones to make it work.

Way, way too early to make any real commentary on the next Smash roster, if it'd ever happen. I know before the SMG movie and the remake, we were all sure that Star Fox was going to lose a character (probably Wolf) as the series really fell into irrelevance. And while that could still happen, the remake makes the series relevant again and hopefully there are plans for a new Star Fox game.

Let's get the elephant in the room out of the way: roster cuts. Everyone knows it's coming and dreading it... but I think it's normally over the top. No, the roster probably won't be cut in half. The most likely cuts are going to be unnecessary clones (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu), the current joke picks (Wii Fit Trainer, Piranha Plant), or third-parties due to licensing issues and the fact this is a Nintendo crossover after all (Snake, Ken, Kazuya). With just a few cuts, it still leaves the Star Fox roster, along with Kid Icarus and Mother, basically untouched just by getting rid of the worst offenders that people either don't care for or Nintendo doesn't want to fight over rights. My prediction is that Fox, Falco, and Wolf are going to be returning, mostly because their work is already done and it's just going to be ported over. As for stages, I think Corneria and Lylat Cruise are staying but Venom could be out.

Now for the character possibilities if Nintendo adds a fourth Star Fox rep:

Krystal

Let's get her out of the way first. The most controversial Star Fox character on the list with an equal number of fans and detractors. While currently more of a nostalgia pick due to how much time since last relevant, we also have to be fair and say everyone is a nostalgia pick at this point due to Command in 2006 being the last original plot. Her inclusion would depend on whether Nintendo wants to bring back elements of GCN Star Fox.

If the next game will include GCN elements or Krystal, she immediately becomes a clear frontrunner as a marketing pick. She also has the advantage of being the main female character in the cast and a staff user, which makes her the most clear non-clone character. She's also the only Star Fox character in the running to not be a part of the Lylat Wars plot, so it adds variety to games represented. But if Nintendo wants to get rid of all 00s Star Fox elements and doesn't intend to bring her back, she falls to the bottom. She's not going to make crowds go wild, but honestly no Star Fox character is going to have that effect anyways as the series still needs to reach mainstream popularity.

Slippy

If Nintendo wants to stick with Star Fox 64 as inspiration, Slippy becomes the obvious choice. A loveable geek who is a genius mechanic, Slippy would make a decent addition to the roster. He could use contraptions to help him fight, since he wouldn't get Fox or Falco's moveset due to his clumsiness. He's part of the OG four, so adding him won't get as big of a potential backlash since he's a foundational character.

The one thing that could get Nintendo to not add him, other than not wanting more SF reps, is if Krystal is added instead. Otherwise he's a safe option.

Peppy

The last member of the OG crew. He was always going to be the last considered of the original team Star Fox, partly due to age and partly due to him not exactly fitting a fighting game as much. I'd put him below Slippy, but not terrible.

Leon

Like how Wolf is Fox's rival, Leon could be added as Falco's rival. I don't really have much to say here. He's below Team Star Fox but above the other Star Wolf members of Pigma, Andrew, and Panther.

Katt

An option if Nintendo wants a female rep without the controversy of Krystal. I don't really see her getting in, though. She's too much of a side character currently. If Star Fox had it's own spinoff with a roster, she'd be in it. But in a massive Nintendo roster, probably not.

Anyways, let me know your thoughts.

Let's imagine that the rumor/leak of an adventure Star Fox is true and is an effective replacement of Star Fox Adventures. Some caveats include that the game cannot be entirely a rail shooter (there can be rail shooter segments, but the majority of the game isn't), Krystal must be included (SFA's big canon introduction), and on-foot is required for a lot of the game (though vehicular gameplay is allowed as long as Fox can go back on-foot). The Arwing and Landmaster are allowed to have uses in the game and new vehicles can be created.

For me, I think I'd like it if the game took some inspiration from Western RPGs like Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls to include some minor RPG mechanics and a plethora of side quests, potentially having side stories dealing with different characters. Krystal having upgradable psionic powers would also be nice and Fox getting weapon upgrades would also be cool. I'd also have different vehicles unlocked at certain points where it then becomes an optional way to travel. I would include Arwing levels that would be full-blown levels instead of tacked-on afterthoughts to make the game recognizable as a Star Fox game.

What would you like to see if you could make the game over again? Would it be closer to Assault (with SF64 levels of quality) or would it be an entirely new genre and a kind of game that hasn't been tried before? Also, this game will not derail any rail shooter Star Fox game plans, so no worrying about never getting a classic Star Fox game.

With the remake of 64, I've been considering how, barring Zero/Guard, Star Fox is composed of two timelines both of which split from Star Fox 1/64. This is a headcanon and not official, by the way. I'm just trying to consolidate this into two timelines with some hypotheticals if SF 64 is true for all timelines.

Timeline 1 (Venomian Empire)

Star Fox goes through the easy route, with Fox rescuing Slippy from Titania before going through Bolse and Venom 1. Due to going through Bolse, Andross was able to prepare his escape, having Fox fight merely a robot. Due to this, Star Fox returns to Corneria seemingly winning the war, but Andross retains his fleets as well as the industrial base of Macbeth. He's able to rebuild before launching a second and more dangerous war against Corneria.

This leads into Star Fox 2 where Star Fox hires two newcomers, Miyu and Fay, to help assist the team in putting Andross to rest for good. Star Fox succeeds, shooting down and killing all four members of Star Wolf: Wolf, Leon, Pigma, and Algy (Andrew was pulled off by Andross to be his successor). They then kill Andross for real. However, Andrew still remains and will attempt to revive the empire. This would lead into an alternate Assault where Andrew is not usurped by the Aparoids and is the main villain throughout. In this timeline, Fox doesn't have a girlfriend (unless we consider Fara Phoenix from the comics canon).

Timeline 2 (Echoes of Cerinia)

Star Fox does the hard route of 64, meeting up with Katt in Zoness and destroying much of the Venomian military. Fox kills Andross on Venom 2 and returns a hero. The remnants of Venom's forces decides to hide in the jungles of Fortuna, which is officially a nature preserve planet.

However, even though he died, Andross's ghost remains through the same force that James McCloud was able to return as a ghost to guide Fox out of Andross's base. Andross's ghost goes to Sauria, a planet he scoped earlier for his back-up plan should he be killed. However, going to Sauria took all of Andross's energy and he had to wait to appear again.

In the eight years following the Lylat Wars, Star Fox is broke while Falco leaves and reconnects with Katt. Fox gets a request from General Pepper to save Sauria from its self-destruction and investigate. Little did he know that earlier, a blue vixen from the lost planet of Cerinia had arrived earlier to investigate by herself only to get trapped. Fox McCloud aids the dinosaurs in their fight against the tyrant General Scales of the SharpClaws. But as Fox collects Krazoa Spirits and SpellStones, he doesn't realize that he and Scales were both deceived. Andross purposefully arranged General Scales's conquest entirely to get Fox McCloud to investigate and have him retrieve the Krazoa Spirits to save Krystal, knowing his good heart. Scales was just a useful idiot for Andross. With Andross somewhat revived (probably wanted to be more than just a head and hands again), Fox, Krystal, and Falco (who returns) defeat Andross, killing him for good this time.

One year later, Krystal has joined Star Fox while Peppy retires to be their commander and strategist as he's getting older but still wants to be useful. Andrew Oikonny, now 26 years old and with more experience/charisma, rallies the Venomian remnants to fight a guerilla war against Corneria, luring them into a trap over his base on Fortuna (which has been turned into a massive factory for his war effort). Star Fox helps and defeats Andrew easily, however, the Aparoids steals their kill. The Aparoids then pose a massive threat to the Lylat system, almost wiping out the Saurians and Cornerians before they're finally defeated by Fox McCloud (Falco, Slippy, and Krystal help in phase 1 against the queen).

Two years later, Star Fox has disbanded and the Anglars invade a decimated Corneria. This one ends however you'd want.

The Zero Question

The issue with Zero is that its version of the Lylat Wars is different enough that it's hard to place in an existing timeline. Why Nintendo screws with the timeline and story in a franchise that could handle both is beyond me.