u/Weekly_Information48

Welcome ladies and gentlemen, good morning, good afternoon, good evening and good night, welcome everyone.

The posts by zoteku and FitCantaloupe798 were very helpful in creating this post.

I would appreciate it if you could see their posts, which inspired me.

I am very grateful to both of those people.

-https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/ij0RVzaJjW FitCantaloupe798

-https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/Mw13Zo5mT9 zoteku.

Just so you know. It was an extremely long battle, and what did we see right after that extremely long battle?

KAIDO IS UNHARMED.

He wasn't even TIRED.

NO DAMAGE.

Oden and his condition? Injured. So much so that after the Totsuka Paradise, he took a blow and fell.

So no. Oden caught Kaido off guard; if he could kill Kaido with two hits and was truly capable of blitzing him, Oden would have done it.

But he decided to dance for years. And he tried to catch Kaido sleeping, because he knew he had no chance.

In the fight? He caught Kaido preparing his Boro Breath, who wasn't even looking at him.

I'll elaborate on those two points later. I just wanted to summarize quickly WHY this makes sense and HOW it's consistent.

1-Finally, in the first panel we see proof of the relativity of Kaido's base form and Oden's.

As we saw in the panel above.

I must point out how Kaido wasn't worried about transforming into dragon form even knowing Oden's power.

And... By table. No hybrid form, Shurron hakke or Kaenryuu daiko.

He simply didn't think Oden was such a big threat.

This is consistent with Oden agreeing to dance for years.

If Kaido Dragon can be killed with 2 hits and speed blitzed, So Kaido in his base form wouldn't stand a chance (*it's worth remembering that Kaido has gotten stronger over the years*).

2-Speaking again about the battle between Kaido the dragon and Oden.

Here I want to highlight two people.

Zoteku AND FitCantaloupe798,

The credits for some of the information below belong to them.

(*I'll tell you which ones, don't worry, First, let's talk about FitCantaloupe798's arguments. *)

-First of all, as we can see here, Kaido is already in dragon form at the start of the fight. Because did he think this was the most suitable for battle.

If he thought the hybrid form or Kaenryuu Daiko was necessary, he would be using it. If Oden were so strong that two blows could kill Kaido, then Kaido would already be at his maximum.

Here I want to add two points.

Kaido could have had his entire arsenal, or he could have, I simply don't want to belittle Oden and say that Kaido went easy on him. That would be to undermine the narrative of the two. So I prefer to believe That Kaido didn't have that arsenal. This is supported by how the fight unfolded and by some quotes.

-In other words, you can assume he had it. But he definitely didn't use it because he simply didn't think it was necessary.

3-Evidence from FitCantaloupe798:

During chapter 970, On the page

Kaido is seen fighting again in his full Dragon form, this time 6 pages later and right in the middle of the battle. That's when Shinobu joins the fight alongside Oden.

-Pages 11 and 12 of 970, Even in Kaido's final attack on Oden, he remained in dragon form.

-The fight between the Scabbards and Kaido was intended to be a parallel to Kaido vs. Oden, that the only difference was that Oden was dead; that is, no hybrid form, no Shurron Hakke, no Kaenryuu daiko.

-*this is supported by Kaido attempting to replicate the injury inflicted by Oden, but the Scabbards weren't as strong as Oden's.

He let himself get hit, tried to replicate the injury, and was saddened when it didn't work.

And only then did he take them more seriously by using the form base.*

-*Oda drew Kaido more than 10 times in the single chapter covering the fight, and he was attacking in Dragon form in every instance—no hybrid form, no Shuron Hakke, no Kaenryu Daiko.*

-here I temporarily end all mentions of FitCantaloupe798

-I should add that Oda had the opportunity to include the silhouette of the hybrid form; he drew King and Queen in their hybrid forms.

He drew Kaido the dragon himself in silhouette in the flashback.

So if he really wanted to include that shape, he would have done it, but that wasn't his intention.

Even the battle against the Scabbards demonstrates this. Since Kaido says that the only difference between Oden's battle and that one is that Oden was dead, without Kaenryuu daiko, hybrid form, or Shurron hakke.

There is NO quote stating that Kaido explicitly used the hybrid form against Oden.

So assuming he used it is just meaningless. You need proof to assert something.

3-Regarding the fight between Kaido and Oden.

-*As previously mentioned, Kaido was beating up Oden before the two fighters caught each other off guard.*

-This is where the relevant part of zoteku comes in.

I'll leave an image of his post describing why the Boro Breath preparation being affected isn't a drawback.

-Much less a demerit for Kaido. Since this is Kaido's slowest form as well. (The form that blitzed Luffy was a partial hybrid with six-pack abs and smaller arms, and a smaller jaw and head.)

This is consistent with the point that the fight was long and yet Kaido was not defeated or even injured; however, when he prepares his Boro Breath, Oden interrupts him, wounding him at that vulnerable moment.

-And I'll connect that to my point: Kaido wasn't even looking at Oden.

We see this with Kaido to the side, while Oden gets up to perform the Totsuka Paradise technique. Oden had been knocked down and Kaido was preparing a Boro Breath on the samurai; he wasn't facing Oden.

He was sideways. In a sideways position.

-When Oda wants to depict the head moving and the character changing position, he does it with the damn head clearly not moving; this doesn't happen in Kaido's Boro Breath because he doesn't Looking at Oden.

(*take Luffy's Gear 5 as an example, observing Kaido's movements in battle, This doesn't happen here*)

-Here I conclude the points regarding Zoteku (*even though I also gave my own points here, the Zoteku point is the explanation of Boro Breath and Kaido's size, That's his slowest form*)

4-The way Kaido fought. (*These are my points*)

As previously mentioned, Kaido, in his first encounter with Oden, he believed that only the base form would be usable.(He was right. He easily stopped one of Oden's attacks, while Oden claimed that no one in the world could stop Kaido in 20 years, And this display of power was enough for Oden to try and kill Kaido while he was unprepared, drunk, and asleep.)

In the second encounter, he believed that only the dragon form would be useful.

-Kaido doesn't switch between forms while using his hybrid form; he only uses the hybrid form because it's his best form among his dragon, base, and hybrid forms—it's literally his strongest form. With all the abilities of the dragon form, without its speed disadvantages (*it just makes it faster*)

On the roof, he NEVER switched between hybrid form and dragon form Except when I was using the Shurron hakke,

He literally only used Boro Breath in hybrid form when he activated hybrid form.

Three times. Two against Luffy, one against Yamato, possibly more offscreen, and none in dragon form.

-Even with Shurron Hakke, he doesn't remain in dragon form forever; he knows that preparing the boro breath leaves him vulnerable.

(*We have the literal example of Luffy over Kung Gun interfering with the activation of Boro Breath because that moment leaves Kaido vulnerable*)

-As I mentioned before, Kaido wasn't even looking at Oden, probably because he thought he had already knocked him.

In other words, without advanced observation haki. Otherwise, Kaido would have reacted and noticed Oden's presence.

-I know I've already said this, but even after falling and getting up with that fatal injury, Kaido isn't in his hybrid form or Shurron Hakke.

-He DEFINITELY didn't use the Kaenryuu daiko, since all of Kaido's samurai and allies within range of an island would be killed, even Wano would be damaged. Kaido gains nothing from that and... That didn't happen.

We've already seen how strong Kaenryuu Daiko is. He would devastate and melt Oden's body.

-Oden's position in Kaido's top 5 is irrelevant.

All it took for Kaido to recognize Luffy was the sky plitz from chapter 1027, which was WAY beyond Kaido's power level Total power.

-I've already talked about physical diferencie. But this is Oda himself drawing Kaido as physically stronger.

To describe the physically strongest one. It doesn't refer to Kaido from Oden's era, but to the current Kaido or Kaido within that timeframe after Oden.

-The 1167 quote is two decades after Godvaley, implying that Kaido had two years to get stronger while drinking and possibly developing the Shurron Hakke; the Kaenryuu Daiko is an analogy in relation to Oden's death.

So it may have happened around that same time, just like the rest of his arsenal.

It is even said that Kaido regularly fought with WB Prime, Shiki Prime, and Big Mom Prime.

No. Oden wouldn't kill him with two blows. Never. There's a reason why Oden himself said that no one could stop him for 20 years, and there's a reason why Oden danced for years.

This idea is immediately disproven by the long battle and Oden being beaten, while Kaido was unharmed until he was caught preparing Boro Breath when he wasn't even looking at Oden.

Even so? Kaido gets up. When HE catches Oden off guard, without Defense, without named attacks, and without any indication of Haki, Kaido delivers a blow, Oden DOES NOT get up.

The manga is very clear about who is stronger.

Kaido is only described as the strongest pirate currently, where he reached his peak.

Just like his reputation, the pirate, drunkard, living being, man, and "the strongest" in the world and in history.

-In conclusion, Kaido did not use (or did not have) his entire arsenal at that time.

-And he was DEFINITELY not in his physical prime.

Kaido's base form back then was relative to Oden, but Dragon Kaido was superior, and the current Kaido is also superior.

Welcome ladies and gentlemen, good morning, good afternoon, good evening and good night, welcome everyone. The posts by zoteku and FitCantaloupe798 were very helpful in creating this post. I would appreciate it if you could see their posts, which inspired me. I am very grateful to both of those people.

-https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/ij0RVzaJjW FitCantaloupe798

-https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/Mw13Zo5mT9 zoteku.

Just so you know. It was an extremely long battle, and what did we see right after that extremely long battle? KAIDO IS UNHARMED. He wasn't even TIRED. NO DAMAGE. Oden and his condition? Injured. So much so that after the Totsuka Paradise, he took a blow and fell. So no. Oden caught Kaido off guard; if he could kill Kaido with two hits and was truly capable of blitzing him, Oden would have done it. But he decided to dance for years. And he tried to catch Kaido sleeping, because he knew he had no chance. In the fight? He caught Kaido preparing his Boro Breath, who wasn't even looking at him. I'll elaborate on those two points later. I just wanted to summarize quickly WHY this makes sense and HOW it's consistent.

1-Finally, in the first panel we see proof of the relativity of Kaido's base form and Oden's. As we saw in the panel above. I must point out how Kaido wasn't worried about transforming into dragon form even knowing Oden's power. And... By table. No hybrid form, Shurron hakke or Kaenryuu daiko. He simply didn't think Oden was such a big threat. This is consistent with Oden agreeing to dance for years. If Kaido Dragon can be killed with 2 hits and speed blitzed, So Kaido in his base form wouldn't stand a chance (it's worth remembering that Kaido has gotten stronger over the years).

2-Speaking again about the battle between Kaido the dragon and Oden. Here I want to highlight two people. Zoteku AND FitCantaloupe798, The credits for some of the information below belong to them. (*I'll tell you which ones, don't worry, First, let's talk about FitCantaloupe798's arguments. *)

-First of all, as we can see here, Kaido is already in dragon form at the start of the fight. Because did he think this was the most suitable for battle. If he thought the hybrid form or Kaenryuu Daiko was necessary, he would be using it. If Oden were so strong that two blows could kill Kaido, then Kaido would already be at his maximum. Here I want to add two points. Kaido could have had his entire arsenal, or he could have, I simply don't want to belittle Oden and say that Kaido went easy on him. That would be to undermine the narrative of the two. So I prefer to believe That Kaido didn't have that arsenal. This is supported by how the fight unfolded and by some quotes.

-In other words, you can assume he had it. But he definitely didn't use it because he simply didn't think it was necessary.

3-Evidence from FitCantaloupe798: During chapter 970, On the page Kaido is seen fighting again in his full Dragon form, this time 6 pages later and right in the middle of the battle. That's when Shinobu joins the fight alongside Oden. -Pages 11 and 12 of 970, Even in Kaido's final attack on Oden, he remained in dragon form.

-The fight between the Scabbards and Kaido was intended to be a parallel to Kaido vs. Oden, that the only difference was that Oden was dead; that is, no hybrid form, no Shurron Hakke, no Kaenryuu daiko.

-this is supported by Kaido attempting to replicate the injury inflicted by Oden, but the Scabbards weren't as strong as Oden's. He let himself get hit, tried to replicate the injury, and was saddened when it didn't work. And only then did he take them more seriously by using the form base.

-Oda drew Kaido more than 10 times in the single chapter covering the fight, and he was attacking in Dragon form in every instance—no hybrid form, no Shuron Hakke, no Kaenryu Daiko.

-here I temporarily end all mentions of FitCantaloupe798

-I should add that Oda had the opportunity to include the silhouette of the hybrid form; he drew King and Queen in their hybrid forms. He drew Kaido the dragon himself in silhouette in the flashback. So if he really wanted to include that shape, he would have done it, but that wasn't his intention. Even the battle against the Scabbards demonstrates this. Since Kaido says that the only difference between Oden's battle and that one is that Oden was dead, without Kaenryuu daiko, hybrid form, or Shurron hakke. There is NO quote stating that Kaido explicitly used the hybrid form against Oden. So assuming he used it is just meaningless. You need proof to assert something.

3-Regarding the fight between Kaido and Oden. -As previously mentioned, Kaido was beating up Oden before the two fighters caught each other off guard.

-This is where the relevant part of zoteku comes in. I'll leave an image of his post describing why the Boro Breath preparation being affected isn't a drawback.

-Much less a demerit for Kaido. Since this is Kaido's slowest form as well. (The form that blitzed Luffy was a partial hybrid with six-pack abs and smaller arms, and a smaller jaw and head.)

This is consistent with the point that the fight was long and yet Kaido was not defeated or even injured; however, when he prepares his Boro Breath, Oden interrupts him, wounding him at that vulnerable moment.

-And I'll connect that to my point: Kaido wasn't even looking at Oden. We see this with Kaido to the side, while Oden gets up to perform the Totsuka Paradise technique. Oden had been knocked down and Kaido was preparing a Boro Breath on the samurai; he wasn't facing Oden. He was sideways. In a sideways position.

-When Oda wants to depict the head moving and the character changing position, he does it with the damn head clearly not moving; this doesn't happen in Kaido's Boro Breath because he doesn't Looking at Oden. (take Luffy's Gear 5 as an example, observing Kaido's movements in battle, This doesn't happen here)

-Here I conclude the points regarding Zoteku (even though I also gave my own points here, the Zoteku point is the explanation of Boro Breath and Kaido's size, That's his slowest form)

4-The way Kaido fought. (These are my points) As previously mentioned, Kaido, in his first encounter with Oden, he believed that only the base form would be usable.(He was right. He easily stopped one of Oden's attacks, while Oden claimed that no one in the world could stop Kaido in 20 years, And this display of power was enough for Oden to try and kill Kaido while he was unprepared, drunk, and asleep.) In the second encounter, he believed that only the dragon form would be useful.

-Kaido doesn't switch between forms while using his hybrid form; he only uses the hybrid form because it's his best form among his dragon, base, and hybrid forms—it's literally his strongest form. With all the abilities of the dragon form, without its speed disadvantages (it just makes it faster) On the roof, he NEVER switched between hybrid form and dragon form Except when I was using the Shurron hakke, He literally only used Boro Breath in hybrid form when he activated hybrid form. Three times. Two against Luffy, one against Yamato, possibly more offscreen, and none in dragon form.

-Even with Shurron Hakke, he doesn't remain in dragon form forever; he knows that preparing the boro breath leaves him vulnerable. (We have the literal example of Luffy over Kung Gun interfering with the activation of Boro Breath because that moment leaves Kaido vulnerable)

-As I mentioned before, Kaido wasn't even looking at Oden, probably because he thought he had already knocked him. In other words, without advanced observation haki. Otherwise, Kaido would have reacted and noticed Oden's presence.

-I know I've already said this, but even after falling and getting up with that fatal injury, Kaido isn't in his hybrid form or Shurron Hakke.

-He DEFINITELY didn't use the Kaenryuu daiko, since all of Kaido's samurai and allies within range of an island would be killed, even Wano would be damaged. Kaido gains nothing from that and... That didn't happen. We've already seen how strong Kaenryuu Daiko is. He would devastate and melt Oden's body.

-Oden's position in Kaido's top 5 is irrelevant. All it took for Kaido to recognize Luffy was the sky plitz from chapter 1027, which was WAY beyond Kaido's power level Total power.

-I've already talked about physical diferencie. But this is Oda himself drawing Kaido as physically stronger. To describe the physically strongest one. It doesn't refer to Kaido from Oden's era, but to the current Kaido or Kaido within that timeframe after Oden.

-The 1167 quote is two decades after Godvaley, implying that Kaido had two years to get stronger while drinking and possibly developing the Shurron Hakke; the Kaenryuu Daiko is an analogy in relation to Oden's death. So it may have happened around that same time, just like the rest of his arsenal. It is even said that Kaido regularly fought with WB Prime, Shiki Prime, and Big Mom Prime. No. Oden wouldn't kill him with two blows. Never. There's a reason why Oden himself said that no one could stop him for 20 years, and there's a reason why Oden danced for years. This idea is immediately disproven by the long battle and Oden being beaten, while Kaido was unharmed until he was caught preparing Boro Breath when he wasn't even looking at Oden. Even so? Kaido gets up. When HE catches Oden off guard, without Defense, without named attacks, and without any indication of Haki, Kaido delivers a blow, Oden DOES NOT get up. The manga is very clear about who is stronger.

Kaido is only described as the strongest pirate currently, where he reached his peak. Just like his reputation, the pirate, drunkard, living being, man, and "the strongest" in the world and in history.

-In conclusion, Kaido did not use (or did not have) his entire arsenal at that time.

-And he was DEFINITELY not in his physical prime. Kaido's base form back then was relative to Oden, but Dragon Kaido was superior, and the current Kaido is also superior.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Good morning, good evening, and good afternoon. Yamato's weakened ice (since Devil Fruits depend on the user's stamina, Yamato was injured and exhausted) managed to withstand the explosion that damaged Big Mom, enhanced by years of life. The ice wasn't damaged in the slightest. This ice was also capable of dissipating Kaido's fire. To negate and neutralize this fire that is superior to Momonosuke's, which surpassed the durability of Aramaki's avatar.

1-The seraphim? They would be frozen, and the characters wouldn't expend any energy.

2-Lucci? Luffy would probably still want to fight him. However, Lucci vs. Zoro simply wouldn't happen; without delay, Yamato would either launch a combined attack with Zoro or simply freeze Lucci.

3-She reacted to Kaido's speed and was also able to keep up with the Gear 5 vs. Kaido fight. Sanji Without germ enhancements reacted to Kizaru's laser, and Yamato's observation haki is good enough for Kaido to disappear from her sight while trying to blitz her, and yet she still manages to locate him instantly. I highly doubt Vegapunk would die in that "What If" scenario.

4-Here, Yamato and Luffy would either be overwhelming Kizaru, or Luffy would simply be fighting alone again. Ultimately, the result would remain the same. The difference is when Saturn appears and in Luffy's second round.

5-Saturn's introduction in demonic form. That idiot. He only activated durability later on the cymbal. If he allowed himself to be crushed by Yamato, you can be sure she would simply freeze him and he wouldn't be able to break free. Saturn would no longer be a problem.

6-The other summoned goroseis.

-Nasjuro was surprised by Sanji without his Germa enhancements and clashed with Zoro. Yamato's ice is stronger. In addition, it can cover that range. She has more combat speed feats. Guess what? Frozen, dismembered, or crushed.

-Gorosei Ju Peter has the least durability (or the least durability activation) the first instant he is torn apart or tries to fight against the giants. Yamato would freeze him.

-Warcury is quite simple; he lets himself be hit and was later damaged by emeth. Yamato has more AP than the Red Rook (Luffy didn't use emission to strengthen his internal RYOU, since there was contact. Luffy also didn't use haoshoku, since there was no black lightning emanating from his fist either before or during the attack.)

-Mars would probably be the only one who survived, but Yamato would deal with him along with Luffy.

-I have to make this point. ANY difficulty. Zoro and Sanji would be 100% there with Luffy to help her neutralize the enemies.

-Kizaru. He would either be frozen while on the ground or simply retreat, carrying the frozen bodies of the Gorosei with him.

-Luffy dominated Kizaru in combat, surpassing his speed several times. The second time he grabbed him, all he had to do was ask Yamato to freeze him.

-Kizaru didn't demonstrate the ability to break Yamato's ice.

-Yamato needs to be fast enough to hit him. And again. Any difficulty? Yamato would have help from 2 Yonko+ level players and a Yonko level player.

7-Consequences. -It wouldn't stray too far from the canon, but the original Vegapunk would still be alive.

-Emeth would probably follow the Straw Hats. -That would be interesting because we would probably have Loki seeing Emeth and having some kind of interaction with it; if I'm not mistaken, Emeth is also a toy of the giants. It would be interesting if people mistook him for a god or told some legend about him.

-Yamato could assist in the fight against the knights by simply freezing them both.

-Soon after, she could assist Loki; when Luffy gets up, it would be a 3v1; she could simply go help Zoro and Sanji, freeze the knights, or beat them to death with Zoro's help.

-She could make ice armor for herself, Luffy, and Loki. And she's fast enough to keep up with Gear 5 and Kaido in battle. Then she could react to the first stigma. Since Loki was blitzed by Luffy's base attack, Loki tried to hit Imu with Ragnin, but Luffy, who was far behind him, attacked first. Loki did not see the attack. He only saw it when Imu was already far away and was shocked.

-She could freeze any injury that occurred near ragnir.

-When Gabban came, it would be a 4v1 if Zoro and Sanji were there, it would be a 6v1, they wouldn't stand a chance against Imu, but coordinated attacks would definitely make Imu's time worse. He can't stay in Elbaf for that long.

If Emeth had Joy Boy's Haki stored in Elbaf, then this would be a 7-1 defeat with a move to buy even more time and leave Imu scared and traumatized.

-That would be a great move, we saw it with Big Mom and Mother Carmel, as well as with Kaido vs. the Scabbards. That the trauma makes the character weaker physically and in haki, What if he were to be punished? His time in Elbaf would decrease even further.

-The consequences in Wano. I truly believe that Momonosuke and the Scabbards They would be able to handle whos whos. At worst, Ulti and Page One would ally with them. I just don't know what King and Queen would do or if they're still in Wano. Ulti would follow and become a samurai.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Good morning, good evening, and good afternoon. Yamato's weakened ice (since Devil Fruits depend on the user's stamina, Yamato was injured and exhausted) managed to withstand the explosion that damaged Big Mom, enhanced by years of life. The ice wasn't damaged in the slightest. This ice was also capable of dissipating Kaido's fire. To negate and neutralize this fire that is superior to Momonosuke's, which surpassed the durability of Aramaki's avatar.

1-The seraphim? They would be frozen, and the characters wouldn't expend any energy.

2-Lucci? Luffy would probably still want to fight him. However, Lucci vs. Zoro simply wouldn't happen; without delay, Yamato would either launch a combined attack with Zoro or simply freeze Lucci.

3-She reacted to Kaido's speed and was also able to keep up with the Gear 5 vs. Kaido fight. Sanji Without germ enhancements reacted to Kizaru's laser, and Yamato's observation haki is good enough for Kaido to disappear from her sight while trying to blitz her, and yet she still manages to locate him instantly. I highly doubt Vegapunk would die in that "What If" scenario.

4-Here, Yamato and Luffy would either be overwhelming Kizaru, or Luffy would simply be fighting alone again. Ultimately, the result would remain the same. The difference is when Saturn appears and in Luffy's second round.

5-Saturn's introduction in demonic form. That idiot. He only activated durability later on the cymbal. If he allowed himself to be crushed by Yamato, you can be sure she would simply freeze him and he wouldn't be able to break free. Saturn would no longer be a problem.

6-The other summoned goroseis.

-Nasjuro was surprised by Sanji without his Germa enhancements and clashed with Zoro. Yamato's ice is stronger. In addition, it can cover that range. She has more combat speed feats. Guess what? Frozen, dismembered, or crushed.

-Gorosei Ju Peter has the least durability (or the least durability activation) the first instant he is torn apart or tries to fight against the giants. Yamato would freeze him.

-Warcury is quite simple; he lets himself be hit and was later damaged by emeth. Yamato has more AP than the Red Rook (Luffy didn't use emission to strengthen his internal RYOU, since there was contact. Luffy also didn't use haoshoku, since there was no black lightning emanating from his fist either before or during the attack.)

-Mars would probably be the only one who survived, but Yamato would deal with him along with Luffy.

-I have to make this point. ANY difficulty. Zoro and Sanji would be 100% there with Luffy to help her neutralize the enemies.

-Kizaru. He would either be frozen while on the ground or simply retreat, carrying the frozen bodies of the Gorosei with him.

-Luffy dominated Kizaru in combat, surpassing his speed several times. The second time he grabbed him, all he had to do was ask Yamato to freeze him.

-Kizaru didn't demonstrate the ability to break Yamato's ice.

-Yamato needs to be fast enough to hit him. And again. Any difficulty? Yamato would have help from 2 Yonko+ level players and a Yonko level player.

7-Consequences. -It wouldn't stray too far from the canon, but the original Vegapunk would still be alive.

-Emeth would probably follow the Straw Hats. -That would be interesting because we would probably have Loki seeing Emeth and having some kind of interaction with it; if I'm not mistaken, Emeth is also a toy of the giants. It would be interesting if people mistook him for a god or told some legend about him.

-Yamato could assist in the fight against the knights by simply freezing them both.

-Soon after, she could assist Loki; when Luffy gets up, it would be a 3v1; she could simply go help Zoro and Sanji, freeze the knights, or beat them to death with Zoro's help.

-She could make ice armor for herself, Luffy, and Loki. And she's fast enough to keep up with Gear 5 and Kaido in battle. Then she could react to the first stigma. Since Loki was blitzed by Luffy's base attack, Loki tried to hit Imu with Ragnin, but Luffy, who was far behind him, attacked first. Loki did not see the attack. He only saw it when Imu was already far away and was shocked.

-She could freeze any injury that occurred near ragnir.

-When Gabban came, it would be a 4v1 if Zoro and Sanji were there, it would be a 6v1, they wouldn't stand a chance against Imu, but coordinated attacks would definitely make Imu's time worse. He can't stay in Elbaf for that long.

If Emeth had Joy Boy's Haki stored in Elbaf, then this would be a 7-1 defeat with a move to buy even more time and leave Imu scared and traumatized.

-That would be a great move, we saw it with Big Mom and Mother Carmel, as well as with Kaido vs. the Scabbards. That the trauma makes the character weaker physically and in haki, What if he were to be punished? His time in Elbaf would decrease even further.

-The consequences in Wano. I truly believe that Momonosuke and the Scabbards They would be able to handle whos whos. At worst, Ulti and Page One would ally with them. I just don't know what King and Queen would do or if they're still in Wano. Ulti would follow and become a samurai.

1- Zoro and Sanji were attacked by Imu, Imu has no reason to hold back. Even so, these attacks do not cause damage.

2-So no. We don't know how much power Imu used against Ragnir's ice; it's not a metric to say that the ice is as durable as Joy Boy God-level haki.

3-Ice isn't indestructible either; there are mistranslations. Loki only says that ice cannot be melted.

4-Yamato's weakened ice in its base form was able to withstand the explosion that injured Big Mom; the ice wasn't even damaged. It was also able to dissipate Kaido's Boro Breath, which is stronger than Momonosuke's, surpassing the durability of Aramaki's avatar. (Yes, the avatar is durable. It's resistant. It's not a Logia-type like Crocodile, Smoker, or Aokiji with his fragile ice that is inferior to Kizaru's body's physical durability. The only durability Aramaki demonstrated was in his avatar form; he only escaped damage because Momonosuke doesn't have Haki. He can't hit the real body of a Logia user, but he surpassed the avatar's durability.)

-Just a reminder. This was a Yamato wounded by Kaido and exhausted after the fight. Stamina determines the power of Devil Fruits; this is physically shown in the Uta movie, and described in Oda's drafts of how Devil Fruits work in the Red Databook. It happens in the manga, with the exhausted Kaido affecting the clouds. Finally, there are some examples of this. Yamato's ice is top tier.

1- Zoro and Sanji were attacked by Imu, Imu has no reason to hold back. Even so, these attacks do not cause damage.

2-So no. We don't know how much power Imu used against Ragnir's ice; it's not a metric to say that the ice is as durable as Joy Boy God-level haki.

3-Ice isn't indestructible either; there are mistranslations. Loki only says that ice cannot be melted.

4-Yamato's weakened ice in its base form was able to withstand the explosion that injured Big Mom; the ice wasn't even damaged. It was also able to dissipate Kaido's Boro Breath, which is stronger than Momonosuke's, surpassing the durability of Aramaki's avatar. (Yes, the avatar is durable. It's resistant. It's not a Logia-type like Crocodile, Smoker, or Aokiji with his fragile ice that is inferior to Kizaru's body's physical durability. The only durability Aramaki demonstrated was in his avatar form; he only escaped damage because Momonosuke doesn't have Haki. He can't hit the real body of a Logia user, but he surpassed the avatar's durability.)

-Just a reminder. This was a Yamato wounded by Kaido and exhausted after the fight. Stamina determines the power of Devil Fruits; this is physically shown in the Uta movie, and described in Oda's drafts of how Devil Fruits work in the Red Databook. It happens in the manga, with the exhausted Kaido affecting the clouds. Finally, there are some examples of this. Yamato's ice is top tier.

Even her weakened ice demonstrated optimal durability against the bombs that damaged Big Mom, enhanced by years of life. Aramaki would have no way to break free. And it makes absolutely no sense to use the Aokiji vs. Robin argument to say that Logia users are fragile. Aramaki is depicted as having an avatar with durability, and that is the ONLY durability he DEMONSTRATES. He has nothing left. "Why didn't she defeat him then?" Literally, because didn't Momonosuke want to. He wouldn't let them. Notice how she doesn't try to defend herself, she doesn't try to attack, she doesn't try to defend the scabbards or Momonosuke. She does nothing after the order. Even after being captured, she could freeze vines, use shards to free herself, employ named attacks, and transform into a full or hybrid Zoan. She had several options, but she didn't use any of them. Frankly, she could even use advanced Busoshoku emissions. But she literally didn't want to. Because Momonosuke wouldn't let her. She tried to appeal to the Straw Hats because Zoro is a father figure, Nami is maternal, and Luffy is Momonosuke's hero; it's a different kind of trust than the one Momonosuke has with Yamato. "She said Shanks saved Wano." Yes, we literally saw it; he saved Wano from further damage. We saw that Yamato could handle him. So... like???? Yes, Shanks dealt with it. That's not debatable and it's not an argument. That's literally what happened. So much so that even after Greenbull leaves, Luffy and Yamato still decide that Yamato should stay in Wano. Because she could handle Greenbull and people stronger than Greenbull.

Since nobody mentioned the obvious Gabban vs. Imu matchup, what we saw on the page with Imu bleeding is NOT Imu receiving the attack or Gabban overcoming Imu's defense. That's AFTER the attack happened, Oda skipped that part. So much so that the trunk itself had already been cut down. We

literally saw the cut behind the barrier. Because it had already happened. (\\\*Here is the image; Imu has already projected the barrier onto the page. However, the cut had already happened before we saw the page because he is behind Imu, meaning it has already passed.

Imu was focused on Luffy, so it's quite reasonable to say that Imu was indeed caught off guard. Since Loki was also in front of him, the difference is that Imu here was actually focused on another person projecting ANOTHER ACTION in pure attack. Later, he literally defends himself from another attack by Gabban.

To be fair, I won't say that Gabban didn't overcome the barrier, but it wasn't shown. So to assume that this happened is meaningless.

Another thing that many seem not to have understood was Kamudo, the attack that injured Imu.

The second attack was just to finish destroying the branches.

And no, don't use the "he had an army" argument. Kaido was 99% of that army, probably 200%. Anyone who can handle Kaido, This person can handle Kaenryuu daiko. A clash between Gabban and Kaido in that form would be within the range of an island. The heat and haki would decimate the fierce pirates. And for everyone who says Gabban would give Kaido a low difference? Well, there's your answer. It would be even worse for the beast pirates. No, then. Old Gabban doesn't have that level. Regarding Imu, he was another one who only dealt one hit, catching Imu off guard.

This also answers the questions about Rayleigh and Oden. Look at the third panel.... If Oden could kill Kaido with two hits, Gabban with one, and Rayleigh with a fart. So Oden wouldn't have danced for years; he would have summoned the two and split each of the beastly pirates in two. And Kaido's head was ripped off.

No matter what you say, we know that didn't happen, and the reason is in the third panel. And there's no way old men commanders could possibly defeat the king of beasts.

Okay.....

That was disproven a long time ago.

But he came back with "Oden could have killed Kaido with 2 hits," so why did the fight last so long? Why was Oden bleeding while Kaido was unharmed?

Why was Kaido on the horizon ignoring Oden, who had been knocked down? Kaido started preparing a Boro Breath and left himself vulnerable.

We saw how serious Kaido is at the top of Onigashima, both in Shurron Hakke, he leaves no openings even while activating Boro Breath and against Gear 5.

Kaido didn't even use the hybrid form, since he stood up in his base form.

We only need to look at the fight at the top of Onigashima; he doesn't change forms unless he's in Shurron Hakke.

"Was Kaido in Shurron Hakke?" No. Otherwise, he wouldn't have deactivated it.

It's the same with future vision; Kaido wouldn't have been caught vulnerable if he had been in that time or had activated future vision.

"Kaido didn't use the Flame Dragon?" No. The Kaenryuu Daiko is very destructive, the battlefield would be devastated, and if Oden can rival Kaenryuu, then... Kaido's regular dragon would really be dead.

That didn't happen. Kaido simply didn't think Oden was such a big threat or didn't have the Kaenryuu daiko.

That's why I assume Kaido wasn't the Prime at that time; that's underestimating the writing of both of them.

Kaido became deeply engrossed in alcohol during those 20 years and likely developed the Shurron Hakke technique through his experience; the flame dragon also references how Oden was burned.

As already stated, we have no reason to believe that he had those physical forms.

(*It makes sense that Kaido would have a hybrid form, but I also prefer not to believe it, not to buff Kaido, but to avoid belittling Oden's writing*)

If Oden could kill Kaido with two blows, then he would have attacked Kaido a long time ago; you can be sure that King and Queen wouldn't be a problem.

Do you think Kaido was in the Prime at that time? PERFECTLY,

This only confirms that no one could stop Oden if he truly possessed that power, since the Kaenryuu Daiko would devastate the Beast Pirates; if Oden can kill that, then he can massacre Kaido.

However, that didn't happen, did it? No matter how strong Kaido was, Oden knew what the outcome would be.

Until the very end, Oden wanted to kill Kaido while he was drunk and sleeping.

Oden was certain that no one, at that time and for a period of 20 years, could stop Kaido.

One additional point we saw in chapters 1027 and 1039 is what Kaido considers a worthy fighter and warrior.

This is nowhere near what he demonstrates in chapter 1045, delivering one-shots and speed blitzes that surpass Luffy's resistance, durability, perception, and speed.

Much less him rivaling Badrang Gun for 2 chapters.

You can use the argument of citing people who could face Kaido, but that's the kind of warrior Kaido considers capable of facing him, so even that isn't a valid argument.

Okay..... That was disproven a long time ago. But he came back with "Oden could have killed Kaido with 2 hits," so why did the fight last so long? Why was Oden bleeding while Kaido was unharmed? Why was Kaido on the horizon ignoring Oden, who had been knocked down? Kaido started preparing a Boro Breath and left himself vulnerable. We saw how serious Kaido is at the top of Onigashima, both in Shurron Hakke, he leaves no openings even while activating Boro Breath and against Gear 5. Kaido didn't even use the hybrid form, since he stood up in his base form. We only need to look at the fight at the top of Onigashima; he doesn't change forms unless he's in Shurron Hakke. "Was Kaido in Shurron Hakke?" No. Otherwise, he wouldn't have deactivated it. It's the same with future vision; Kaido wouldn't have been caught vulnerable if he had been in that time or had activated future vision. "Kaido didn't use the Flame Dragon?" No. The Kaenryuu Daiko is very destructive, the battlefield would be devastated, and if Oden can rival Kaenryuu, then... Kaido's regular dragon would really be dead. That didn't happen. Kaido simply didn't think Oden was such a big threat or didn't have the Kaenryuu daiko. That's why I assume Kaido wasn't the Prime at that time; that's underestimating the writing of both of them. Kaido became deeply engrossed in alcohol during those 20 years and likely developed the Shurron Hakke technique through his experience; the flame dragon also references how Oden was burned. As already stated, we have no reason to believe that he had those physical forms. (It makes sense that Kaido would have a hybrid form, but I also prefer not to believe it, not to buff Kaido, but to avoid belittling Oden's writing)

If Oden could kill Kaido with two blows, then he would have attacked Kaido a long time ago; you can be sure that King and Queen wouldn't be a problem.

Do you think Kaido was in the Prime at that time? PERFECTLY, This only confirms that no one could stop Oden if he truly possessed that power, since the Kaenryuu Daiko would devastate the Beast Pirates; if Oden can kill that, then he can massacre Kaido. However, that didn't happen, did it? No matter how strong Kaido was, Oden knew what the outcome would be.

Until the very end, Oden wanted to kill Kaido while he was drunk and sleeping.

Oden was certain that no one, at that time and for a period of 20 years, could stop Kaido.

One additional point we saw in chapters 1027 and 1039 is what Kaido considers a worthy fighter and warrior. This is nowhere near what he demonstrates in chapter 1045, delivering one-shots and speed blitzes that surpass Luffy's resistance, durability, perception, and speed. Much less him rivaling Badrang Gun for 2 chapters..

1-The pk is trying to sacrifice itself to save the pk++++, the goat winbei saves them both, and ragnir is amazed by it.

2-Jinbei refers to Loki as "that guy" in Japanese.

Never treating him as special, even with what we've seen before.

He's also not concerned about whether or not Luffy can handle an enemy that Loki couldn't; notice how this isn't about trust in allies, but simply a conclusion.

To place trust in someone implies something difficult or something you can't do. Jinbei isn't doing anything extreme here; he's simply not worried about whether Luffy can handle it or not.

3-In the third panel, he also strangely refers to the number one player from that lost century simply as "that big giant." Jinbei cares about Loki's size, not his power.

This is relevant because Jinbei, as already mentioned, is not concerned that Loki was easily defeated.

And I thought Luffy was above that.

Everything is quite consistent with Luffy's superior speed, Imu having to increase his AP and speed against Luffy, not letting him rest; he spared Loki several times during the fight.

Luffy being able to turn Imu's eyes white, unlike Loki, who even after hitting Imu's entire blood vessels, was unable to do so.

Etc.,

It also includes three consistent quotes from Luffy himself saying that he would stop, capture, and send Loki to the heavens.

4-He also says something in the third panel that indicates what I had already said in other posts.

Luffy has only weakened; is his condition great? Definitely not. But he can get up; he's just paralyzed by the Void hax.

What still defines his durability and resistance as superior to Loki's, Imu considers him a superior threat.

1-The pk is trying to sacrifice itself to save the pk++++, the goat winbei saves them both, and ragnir is amazed by it.

2-Jinbei refers to Loki as "that guy" in Japanese. Never treating him as special, even with what we've seen before. He's also not concerned about whether or not Luffy can handle an enemy that Loki couldn't; notice how this isn't about trust in allies, but simply a conclusion. To place trust in someone implies something difficult or something you can't do. Jinbei isn't doing anything extreme here; he's simply not worried about whether Luffy can handle it or not.

3-In the third panel, he also strangely refers to the number one player from that lost century simply as "that big giant." He also uses the term "easily defeated". あっさりと倒した (assari to taoshita): Defeated easily/effortlessly. This is relevant because Jinbei, as already mentioned, is not concerned that Loki was easily defeated. And I thought Luffy was above that. Everything is quite consistent with Luffy's superior speed, Imu having to increase his AP and speed against Luffy, not letting him rest; he spared Loki several times during the fight. Luffy being able to turn Imu's eyes white, unlike Loki, who even after hitting Imu's entire blood vessels, was unable to do so. Etc., It also includes three consistent quotes from Luffy himself saying that he would stop, capture, and send Loki to the heavens.

4-He also says something in the third panel that indicates what I had already said in other posts. Luffy has only weakened; is his condition great? Definitely not. But he can get up; he's just paralyzed by the Void hax. What still defines his durability and resistance as superior to Loki's, Imu considers him a superior threat.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, something that apparently nobody noticed, Luffy DID NOT LOSE HIS NIKA FORM against Void. This also reveals a complete defeat; we saw this against Kaido in the one-shot in Act 1.

1-And throughout chapter 1189 we saw Luffy showing some reaction, making a sound, or at least struggling. Void inherently possesses the power of paralysis through the collection of vital energy, as Imu describes. In the panel above, the moment the black blade pierces Luffy, the onomatopoeia Zu zu zu... appears, accompanied by black energy effects. In Japanese manga, the onomatopoeia zu zu zu is frequently used to denote extreme pressure, something being dragged heavily, or energy being drained in an oppressive manner. Notice how there is also NO reason for Oda to emphasize Luffy's consciousness. Even as Kaido reflected on himself, Luffy was falling from Onigashima, unconscious. Here's just Imu RAMBLING, like he always does. We could even justify this by Luffy being the secondary perspective of the audience, a character who serves as an audience for the villain, but... Imu is always rambling, so that doesn't make sense. If Oda truly wanted to portray that complete defeat, he would have done so.

Notice how Jinbei also never considers Luffy to have been defeated, but only weakened.

-Since this is a powerscaling post, I'll still add an addendum. When Luffy is overwhelmed by damage in Gear 4, which he already masters, he transforms back, but remains conscious. To knock him out of his consciousness and bring him down to his base form, you need an EVEN BIGGER AP. So yes, Luffy's durability and resistance to withstand that in Gear 5, which drains his energy, is enormous.

2-VOID NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM LUFFY'S CHEST. I used to think Gabban could do it, but I doubt it. He is already injured and old. His stamina and body energy, that is, his very physical health, would be drained. And he would be vulnerable; if he's going to die, I imagine he'll die in combat against Imu. He has foresight; he would know that he couldn't hold back Void. And here come the perfect people to save Luffy. Gunko and Brook, Gunko apparently has a third-level contract or her eyes grant eternal youth to the user; whatever the reason, she is clearly immortal. So far we don't have a real narrative reason for her to get up and for us to be left waiting like this. But... She's a YC2 at the very least. I believe she's very close to yc1. And why do I think these two would receive emphasis? Void will have to be removed from Luffy's chest. "Fragarachi," the sword of the sea god. It's not a problem because it doesn't seem to have that kind of hax. I also doubt that Loki will be the one to do it. These weapons truly seem to possess power far beyond that of Luffy and Loki, even more so. Touching that would only nerf Loki further; if he were in hybrid form, it would only drain his stamina even more. Brook is also immortal, so all that would happen to Brook and Gunko is that they would simply suffer or be taken out of combat, but not die. Perhaps they could even do it together. -I think that's going to happen, because to me, there's no reason for Brook and Gunko to get involved in the fight; they DON'T have that level of power.

3-And then we could have Loki bandaged up again, in hybrid form, alongside a Luffy strengthened by suffering, with developed haki. Despite the shortened usage time of the transformation. I thought Luffy would stay there for a few chapters, but I doubt that too; Oda is already respecting the rule of detransformation and transformation. Luffy ate a lot before going into battle, he gained a lot of energy, there's no point in wasting it. How could Luffy eat again? Would he spend another 30 chapters eating while sitting down and recovering? No. That makes absolutely no sense. Luffy will retain the energy he has, but it will be depleted, and it also doesn't make sense for Loki to fully recover. So both will have less stamina and resistance, but... stronger and TOGETHER.

4-I've said this in other posts, but the key to defeating IMU is the internal damage of Gear 5. Luffy can't afford to waste attacks, much less spend the entire fight protecting Loki from Imu's insane speed, which matches and outpaces Luffy's own speed. So I imagine Ragnier and Loki Hybrid, along with Luffy, will launch coordinated attacks until Luffy can use a new attack, a star gun or a barrage of star guns. Perhaps something completely different. But Imu's internal bleeding will make it seem as if Luffy is inflating a balloon, and unlike Luffy's first punch which only hit the head, Imu's durability tanked it. This barrage of attacks, or a giant fist, would affect the internal body, blood vessels, and organs. This is despite Loki himself being large enough to attack those same points while Imu remained vulnerable. With Luffy even being able to imbue the power of freedom into Loki's hammer or into Loki himself.

-I don't want to drag this out any further. But I would really like to see Ragnir closing the wound with ice, letting it heal. Cauterizing the wound with cold. And also preventing further damage from reaching that region so easily.

-The Star Guns battles against Kizaru and Kaido were decided by Luffy's body redirection, WHICH IMU STILL HASN'T SEEN OR ADAPTED TO; he doesn't know that Luffy fights like that. I believe that's why Oda ended the fight so early. If she got too carried away, Luffy would use everything he had, redirection, maybe even a Badrang Gun, and she would surpass him in combat and brute strength.

5-Soon, at least one knight will be killed, and with the internal damage and burden of a dead knight reaching him, he, like the rat king that he is, will choose to retreat.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, something that apparently nobody noticed, Luffy DID NOT LOSE HIS NIKA FORM against Void. This also reveals a complete defeat; we saw this against Kaido in the one-shot in Act 1.

1-And throughout chapter 1189 we saw Luffy showing some reaction, making a sound, or at least struggling. Void inherently possesses the power of paralysis through the collection of vital energy, as Imu describes. In the panel above, the moment the black blade pierces Luffy, the onomatopoeia Zu zu zu... appears, accompanied by black energy effects. In Japanese manga, the onomatopoeia zu zu zu is frequently used to denote extreme pressure, something being dragged heavily, or energy being drained in an oppressive manner. Notice how there is also NO reason for Oda to emphasize Luffy's consciousness. Even as Kaido reflected on himself, Luffy was falling from Onigashima, unconscious. Here's just Imu RAMBLING, like he always does. We could even justify this by Luffy being the secondary perspective of the audience, a character who serves as an audience for the villain, but... Imu is always rambling, so that doesn't make sense. If Oda truly wanted to portray that complete defeat, he would have done so.

-Notice how Jinbei also never considers Luffy to have been defeated, but only weakened.

-Since this is a powerscaling post, I'll still add an addendum. When Luffy is overwhelmed by damage in Gear 4, which he already masters, he transforms back, but remains conscious. To knock him out of his consciousness and bring him down to his base form, you need an EVEN BIGGER AP. So yes, Luffy's durability and resistance to withstand that in Gear 5, which drains his energy, is enormous.

2-VOID NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM LUFFY'S CHEST. I used to think Gabban could do it, but I doubt it. He is already injured and old. His stamina and body energy, that is, his very physical health, would be drained. And he would be vulnerable; if he's going to die, I imagine he'll die in combat against Imu. He has foresight; he would know that he couldn't hold back Void. And here come the perfect people to save Luffy. Gunko and Brook, Gunko apparently has a third-level contract or her eyes grant eternal youth to the user; whatever the reason, she is clearly immortal. So far we don't have a real narrative reason for her to get up and for us to be left waiting like this. But... She's a YC2 at the very least. I believe she's very close to yc1. And why do I think these two would receive emphasis? Void will have to be removed from Luffy's chest. "Fragarachi," the sword of the sea god. It's not a problem because it doesn't seem to have that kind of hax. I also doubt that Loki will be the one to do it. These weapons truly seem to possess power far beyond that of Luffy and Loki, even more so. Touching that would only nerf Loki further; if he were in hybrid form, it would only drain his stamina even more. Brook is also immortal, so all that would happen to Brook and Gunko is that they would simply suffer or be taken out of combat, but not die. Perhaps they could even do it together. -I think that's going to happen, because to me, there's no reason for Brook and Gunko to get involved in the fight; they DON'T have that level of power.

3-And then we could have Loki bandaged up again, in hybrid form, alongside a Luffy strengthened by suffering, with developed haki. Despite the shortened usage time of the transformation. I thought Luffy would stay there for a few chapters, but I doubt that too; Oda is already respecting the rule of detransformation and transformation. Luffy ate a lot before going into battle, he gained a lot of energy, there's no point in wasting it. How could Luffy eat again? Would he spend another 30 chapters eating while sitting down and recovering? No. That makes absolutely no sense. Luffy will retain the energy he has, but it will be depleted, and it also doesn't make sense for Loki to fully recover. So both will have less stamina and resistance, but... stronger and TOGETHER.

4-I've said this in other posts, but the key to defeating IMU is the internal damage of Gear 5. Luffy can't afford to waste attacks, much less spend the entire fight protecting Loki from Imu's insane speed, which matches and outpaces Luffy's own speed. So I imagine Ragnier and Loki Hybrid, along with Luffy, will launch coordinated attacks until Luffy can use a new attack, a star gun or a barrage of star guns. Perhaps something completely different. But Imu's internal bleeding will make it seem as if Luffy is inflating a balloon, and unlike Luffy's first punch which only hit the head, Imu's durability tanked it. This barrage of attacks, or a giant fist, would affect the internal body, blood vessels, and organs. This is despite Loki himself being large enough to attack those same points while Imu remained vulnerable. With Luffy even being able to imbue the power of freedom into Loki's hammer or into Loki himself.

-I don't want to drag this out any further. But I would really like to see Ragnir closing the wound with ice, letting it heal. Cauterizing the wound with cold. And also preventing further damage from reaching that region so easily.

-The Star Guns battles against Kizaru and Kaido were decided by Luffy's body redirection, WHICH IMU STILL HASN'T SEEN OR ADAPTED TO; he doesn't know that Luffy fights like that. I believe that's why Oda ended the fight so early. If she got too carried away, Luffy would use everything he had, redirection, maybe even a Badrang Gun, and she would surpass him in combat and brute strength.

5-Soon, at least one knight will be killed, and with the internal damage and burden of a dead knight reaching him, he, like the rat king that he is, will choose to retreat.

Okay. I want to propose a theory now.

Oda is really overusing what he always did with Luffy in every arc, "eat, heal, and gain more stamina," so why couldn't Gabban have done the same? He has the same stupid personality From Loki and Luffy.

Obviously, the regeneration wouldn't be as good as a mythical zoan (*Kaido and Ulti prove this*).

But if Gabban is still in shape and was really comparable, practically equal to Rayleigh,

So he would be around the rank of admiral or a high admiral.

If you have the admirals at the same level as the Yonko, that's an even better upgrade.

But here comes my real proposition against imu...

If Rayleigh, Oden, and Luffy have the internal RYOU emission technique...

Why can't Gabban, who possesses all 3 advanced Haki techniques, have the inner form? A master like him would certainly be able to learn it.

If Imu continues to suffer internal damage.

Then he will definitely suffer even more internal bleeding. Depending on the location in the body, such as the brain, heart, lungs. Or all of them.

This could simply speed up his move to Marejoyse.

Do I think this will be enough? Definitely not.

I believe that at least Sommers will die at the hands of Zoro.

(*I still don't know about Sanji vs. Kilham; it's been pointed out to me that it would be a problem for Sanji's development if he unlocked Haoshoku so quickly and easily.*)

Accumulated damage plus the death of a knight would certainly leave Imu vulnerable. He might have already fled here. Or the hybrid Loki might have emerged.

We... SAW Kaido. You can believe it or not, but that was giant Luffy there.

For me, it was, because it's consistent with the image and we see the image from above, so there's no perspective of Luffy being close up, he's literally far away.

My point is not that perspective determines size, but rather that consistency in size gives meaning to perspective.

But that's IRRELEVANT. IRRELEVANT.

We saw Kaido. We know the size of a normal Zoan dragon. That's quantifiable; we were even able to quantify it with Luffy gear 5 himself being giant while he was jumping rope.

(*I included this comparison of giant Luffy and dragon Kaido in the third image so you can get an idea of the difference between Kaenryuu daiko, Kaido the dragon was much smaller compared to the top of Onigashima, while Kaenryuu Daiko was the size of Onigashima, as I show in the last image.*)

We know the size of giant Luffy compared to Loki, and we know the comparison between Kaido's Zoan form and his flame form.

Loki and Kaido's size in this form REMAINS comparable.

So debating whether Luffy is giant or not is irrelevant, when Kaido's dragon-like physical body IS THERE and it's the constant that matters for quantifying size.

IT'S THE SAME FUCKING SIZE.

("I'm referring to the conclusion of whether Luffy is giant or not; it doesn't change his size or the conclusion.\*)

Returning to the conclusion, which... Many also haven't read.

Kaido is COMPARABLE to Loki in size.

There are also 6 panels arguing that Kaido is the size of Onigashima in this transformation.

Once again, this size is quite consistent with Loki, since Kaido's dragon was able to stand on top of Onigashima's head.

It's just wider, longer, like a snake.

While Loki is more robust and chubby, his wings give him a greater reach to the sides.

CONCLUSION:

KAIDO LONGER AND WIDER Like a snake.

Loki is more ROBUST and FAT Like a fucking bear.

.\*Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. This is an updated analysis of Luffy vs. Loki, incorporating the spoilers that have been released.

A few warnings here. "It lasted more chapters" is not a valid argument. Loki was fighting against a slower Imu with less AP, and the Imu literally let him move in the first two attacks; this never happened to Luffy.

Loki would have died in Nemesis if Imu hadn't drawn his sword and continued stabbing him or tried to cut him in half.

Imu OFFERS POWER, Loki, there's no debate here, he literally spared Loki and let him get up 3 times.

He beat him offscreen until he lost his niddhog form; Imu didn't even need a stigma.

The claim that "Loki landed more blows" is pure speculation.

Imu is not bleeding, Imu is not panting.

We don't know if Loki is distorting things or if the blows even happened.

We know even less about whether Imu was caught off guard again.

We don't know anything. Oda doesn't support Loki's claim, since Imu shows no signs of new injuries or shortness of breath.

When Luffy appeared, he surpassed Loki's speed (you might believe he didn't surpass Imu's speed, even though I think he did, but it's a fact that he surpassed Loki's speed)

And he gave more AP than him. Imu immediately stopped messing around, used Stigma, more AP, and more speed. And later Void and other blades.

This is a completely superior representation. Loki literally had to catch Imu off guard to launch an attack.

With these warnings. The text continues.

Enjoy, good morning, good evening, and good afternoon to all.\*

\*Imu needed more powerful swords, and even Void wasn't enough. Luffy has more durability and resistance than Loki.

This was something we could already have guessed from Niddhog suffering permanent wing damage from the explosion, while Luffy, even suffering blunt force trauma, simply got up and was subsequently No damage.

Imu doesn't use Stigma on Loki or Niddhog before Luffy appears, but she does when base Luffy appears, displaying outpaced speed and showing more AP than Loki.

And even stigma wouldn't be enough against Luffy Nika, since we saw him increase his AP with Void and, in this chapter, use two more swords according to the spoilers.

Luffy is a greater threat than Loki and has superior durability to Loki.\*

1-Attack power (\*ap\*) (\*>>>We already knew he had a superior ap>>>With the argumentative route based on Imu's white eyes>>>Loki delivered blows that reached more organs, bones, flesh, and blood vessels, but didn't leave Imu with white eyes. Luffy did that, therefore Luffy has superior ap>>>The subsequent difference in damage is due to the reach of the ragnir, which, as already mentioned, affected the entire body, including organs, blood vessels, etc. Imu is already weakened by that "disease," internal bleeding.

It's like squeezing a balloon. But Luffy's punch leaving Imu's eyes white constitutes more damage.>>And Luffy, with a bigger punch using Gear Nika, could also hit Loki's entire body; a Badrang Gun would be even more superior.)\*

2-Speed(\*Luffy has more speed, as shown when he outpaced Imu, who saw him coming but was unable to dodge.

Luffy was in front of him. We can see the silhouette, but thanks to Imu and Loki being giants, the distance would be even greater.

Imu literally reacts to that silhouette.\*)

(\*Even if you believe that Luffy didn't surpass Imu's speed, but rather caught him off guard.

Still, thankfully, Luffy came from behind Loki, who was about to attack Imu, But Luffy outpaced Loki before he could lower his hammer to attack.

So much so that Loki is shocked.\*)

(\*Loki is also unable to dodge Stigma, while Luffy can do so at point-blank range, inches away.

Remember, there are stupid people. Base Luffy dodged BEFORE the shot was fired, Nika Luffy dodged AFTER the shot was fired. We saw the examples; if Luffy had reacted before the shot was fired, it would have been shown. But it didn't happen.

He only reacted afterward, and for those who are curious, well, the genie djinn's purpose was to prevent the stigma from pursuing the mark and instead pursue Luffy by redirecting itself; diverting wouldn't make sense in this context.\*)

(\*Imu and Luffy also disappeared at the beginning of the chapter, blitzing each other, like Kaido with Luffy, Sanji and Queen, etc., this level of speed never happened with Loki\*)

(\*Imu needed the redirected attacks to hit Luffy\*)

3-\*Addendums, which I've already given in other posts.\*

\*-Loki is not weakened; we saw in chapter 1179 that he was healed. If he were wounded, the wounds would have reopened in the fight against Imu.

He healed himself with Niddhog (Kaido and his ultimate also had an accelerated healing factor).

And eating. Gerd said it would "probably" take a few months. She wasn't sure, she didn't know about Luffy's method or the healing factor of Zoan mithical, which Niddhog must have an excellent healing factor.\*

\*-This is not a visual inconsistency; it remains the same from issue 1181 onward.\*)

\*-Whether or not Imu uses omen against Loki is irrelevant.

It would only be relevant if he truly couldn't defend himself with his bare hands. Which we don't know if that's true.

To affirm that imu REALLY NEEDED,

You have to say that Loki is on Joy Boy's level. We know he isn't.\*

\*-"Why didn't Imu use it on Luffy then?" He increased his AP and speed, so it's very likely he increased his defense. Either way, his guard has never been shown to be inferior to Loki's.\*

\*-"Imu calls Loki strong and Luffy weak", as always, the dishonest fandom, come on.

Imu He NEVER calls Loki strong in relation to Niddhog.

He's just stating the obvious, that Loki is the current Niddhog who has returned; he says this because of his appearance.

Imu and Luffy say "Joy boy," therefore, the real comparison here would be with the users "God of War Elbaf"—if Loki were called that, it would be an appropriate analogy, but that wasn't the case.

Imu doesn't even call Loki "That's how it is" by the hammer blow.

He calls him that really just because of his appearance, consistent with him having called Luffy "nika" and "Joy boy" several times.\*

\*-the context of nika In itself.

Luffy says he is NOT a Joy Boy.

And then Imu says and complains, "Why are these memories coming back?"

And then he gives a REACTIVE response to Luffy's.

"I KNOW YOU'RE NOT A JOY BOY"

Do you understand? Do you understand how simple it is? Reading is very simple.

Loki NEVER says "I am not Niddhog," which is why Imu never mentions anything. In fact, Imu never even mentions comparing Loki and Niddhog, because it's not a comparison.

Luffy is the current Nika, Loki is the current Nika, Luffy is not Joy Boy, Luffy is not as strong as Joy Boy, Loki is not the God of War Elbaf, Loki is not as strong as the God of War Elbaf.\*

\*All of this is VERY consistent with what Oda conveys about Luffy analyzing Loki with Observation Haki three times and saying he could capture him.

He would defeat him and throw him into the sky, three times citing his ability to stop Loki.

Trying to refute that with Doffy or Kaido is just a false analogy; we knew that both were stronger than Luffy.

While here, Oda isn't making a threat about what Luffy would do in the future, he's stating a fact about Luffy, which has no reason to be hyperbolic.\*

We... SAW Kaido. You can believe it or not, but that was giant Luffy there.

For me, it was, because it's consistent with the image and we see the image from above, so there's no perspective of Luffy being close up, he's literally far away.

My point is not that perspective determines size, but rather that consistency in size gives meaning to perspective.

But that's IRRELEVANT. IRRELEVANT.

We saw Kaido. We know the size of a normal Zoan dragon. That's quantifiable; we were even able to quantify it with Luffy gear 5 himself being giant while he was jumping rope.

We know the size of giant Luffy compared to Loki, and we know the comparison between Kaido's Zoan form and his flame form.

Loki and Kaido's size in this form REMAINS comparable.

So debating whether Luffy is giant or not is irrelevant, when Kaido's dragon-like physical body IS THERE and it's the constant that matters for quantifying size.

IT'S THE SAME FUCKING SIZE.

("I'm referring to the conclusion of whether Luffy is giant or not; it doesn't change his size or the conclusion.*)

Returning to the conclusion, which... Many also haven't read.

Kaido is COMPARABLE to Loki in size.

There are also 6 panels arguing that Kaido is the size of Onigashima in this transformation.

Once again, this size is quite consistent with Loki, since Kaido's dragon was able to stand on top of Onigashima's head.

It's just wider, longer, like a snake.

While Loki is more robust and chubby, his wings give him a greater reach to the sides.

CONCLUSION:

KAIDO LONGER AND WIDER Like a snake.

Loki is more ROBUST and FAT Like a fucking bear.

*Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. This is an updated analysis of Luffy vs. Loki, incorporating the spoilers that have been released. A few warnings here. "It lasted more chapters" is not a valid argument. Loki was fighting against a slower Imu with less AP, and the Imu literally let him move in the first two attacks; this never happened to Luffy. Loki would have died in Nemesis if Imu hadn't drawn his sword and continued stabbing him or tried to cut him in half. Imu OFFERS POWER, Loki, there's no debate here, he literally spared Loki and let him get up 3 times. He beat him offscreen until he lost his niddhog form; Imu didn't even need a stigma. The claim that "Loki landed more blows" is pure speculation. Imu is not bleeding, Imu is not panting. We don't know if Loki is distorting things or if the blows even happened. We know even less about whether Imu was caught off guard again. We don't know anything. Oda doesn't support Loki's claim, since Imu shows no signs of new injuries or shortness of breath. When Luffy appeared, he surpassed Loki's speed (you might believe he didn't surpass Imu's speed, even though I think he did, but it's a fact that he surpassed Loki's speed) And he gave more AP than him. Imu immediately stopped messing around, used Stigma, more AP, and more speed. And later Void and other blades. This is a completely superior representation. Loki literally had to catch Imu off guard to launch an attack. With these warnings. The text continues. Enjoy, good morning, good evening, and good afternoon to all.*

*Imu needed more powerful swords, and even Void wasn't enough. Luffy has more durability and resistance than Loki. This was something we could already have guessed from Niddhog suffering permanent wing damage from the explosion, while Luffy, even suffering blunt force trauma, simply got up and was subsequently No damage. Imu doesn't use Stigma on Loki or Niddhog before Luffy appears, but she does when base Luffy appears, displaying outpaced speed and showing more AP than Loki. And even stigma wouldn't be enough against Luffy Nika, since we saw him increase his AP with Void and, in this chapter, use two more swords according to the spoilers. Luffy is a greater threat than Loki and has superior durability to Loki.*

1-Attack power (*ap*) (*>>>We already knew he had a superior ap>>>With the argumentative route based on Imu's white eyes>>>Loki delivered blows that reached more organs, bones, flesh, and blood vessels, but didn't leave Imu with white eyes. Luffy did that, therefore Luffy has superior ap>>>The subsequent difference in damage is due to the reach of the ragnir, which, as already mentioned, affected the entire body, including organs, blood vessels, etc. Imu is already weakened by that "disease," internal bleeding. It's like squeezing a balloon. But Luffy's punch leaving Imu's eyes white constitutes more damage.>>And Luffy, with a bigger punch using Gear Nika, could also hit Loki's entire body; a Badrang Gun would be even more superior.)*

2-Speed(*Luffy has more speed, as shown when he outpaced Imu, who saw him coming but was unable to dodge. Luffy was in front of him. We can see the silhouette, but thanks to Imu and Loki being giants, the distance would be even greater. Imu literally reacts to that silhouette.*)

(*Even if you believe that Luffy didn't surpass Imu's speed, but rather caught him off guard. Still, thankfully, Luffy came from behind Loki, who was about to attack Imu, But Luffy outpaced Loki before he could lower his hammer to attack. So much so that Loki is shocked.*)

(*Loki is also unable to dodge Stigma, while Luffy can do so at point-blank range, inches away. Remember, there are stupid people. Base Luffy dodged BEFORE the shot was fired, Nika Luffy dodged AFTER the shot was fired. We saw the examples; if Luffy had reacted before the shot was fired, it would have been shown. But it didn't happen. He only reacted afterward, and for those who are curious, well, the genie djinn's purpose was to prevent the stigma from pursuing the mark and instead pursue Luffy by redirecting itself; diverting wouldn't make sense in this context.*)

(*Imu and Luffy also disappeared at the beginning of the chapter, blitzing each other, like Kaido with Luffy, Sanji and Queen, etc., this level of speed never happened with Loki*)

(*Imu needed the redirected attacks to hit Luffy*)

3-*Addendums, which I've already given in other posts.*

*-Loki is not weakened; we saw in chapter 1179 that he was healed. If he were wounded, the wounds would have reopened in the fight against Imu. He healed himself with Niddhog (Kaido and his ultimate also had an accelerated healing factor). And eating. Gerd said it would "probably" take a few months. She wasn't sure, she didn't know about Luffy's method or the healing factor of Zoan mithical, which Niddhog must have an excellent healing factor.*

*-This is not a visual inconsistency; it remains the same from issue 1181 onward.*)

*-Whether or not Imu uses omen against Loki is irrelevant. It would only be relevant if he truly couldn't defend himself with his bare hands. Which we don't know if that's true. To affirm that imu REALLY NEEDED, You have to say that Loki is on Joy Boy's level. We know he isn't.*

*-"Why didn't Imu use it on Luffy then?" He increased his AP and speed, so it's very likely he increased his defense. Either way, his guard has never been shown to be inferior to Loki's.*

*-"Imu calls Loki strong and Luffy weak", as always, the dishonest fandom, come on. Imu He NEVER calls Loki strong in relation to Niddhog. He's just stating the obvious, that Loki is the current Niddhog who has returned; he says this because of his appearance. Imu and Luffy say "Joy boy," therefore, the real comparison here would be with the users "God of War Elbaf"—if Loki were called that, it would be an appropriate analogy, but that wasn't the case. Imu doesn't even call Loki "That's how it is" by the hammer blow. He calls him that really just because of his appearance, consistent with him having called Luffy "nika" and "Joy boy" several times.*

*-the context of nika In itself. Luffy says he is NOT a Joy Boy. And then Imu says and complains, "Why are these memories coming back?" And then he gives a REACTIVE response to Luffy's. "I KNOW YOU'RE NOT A JOY BOY" Do you understand? Do you understand how simple it is? Reading is very simple. Loki NEVER says "I am not Niddhog," which is why Imu never mentions anything. In fact, Imu never even mentions comparing Loki and Niddhog, because it's not a comparison. Luffy is the current Nika, Loki is the current Nika, Luffy is not Joy Boy, Luffy is not as strong as Joy Boy, Loki is not the God of War Elbaf, Loki is not as strong as the God of War Elbaf.*

*All of this is VERY consistent with what Oda conveys about Luffy analyzing Loki with Observation Haki three times and saying he could capture him. He would defeat him and throw him into the sky, three times citing his ability to stop Loki. Trying to refute that with Doffy or Kaido is just a false analogy; we knew that both were stronger than Luffy. While here, Oda isn't making a threat about what Luffy would do in the future, he's stating a fact about Luffy, which has no reason to be hyperbolic.*