r/OnePieceScaling

Roger was super strong but he never had the same competition that Luffy has had. Luffy already defeated Kaidou 1vs1 in Wano, In Elbaph his enemy is Imu himself who is much stronger than Roger ever was and there is still Blackbeard who will problaby be as strong as Davy Jones if not stronger when Luffy has to defeat him.

Roger in comparison never had that level of opponents, he didnt beat Big Mom for the Poneglyphs, Whitebeard was basically his friend so their fights were never serious, Garp was an enemy but Roged never beat bim and Shiki was saved by an storm. So if you look at Roged he didnt beat his rivals like Luffy will have to do and his rivals were much stronger

And I havent even mentioned other possible opponents for Luffy like Akainu, Shamrock or the Man Marked by Flames. The amount of competition Luffy will have to beat to become PK is much higher

Kaidou> Shiki

Elbaph Imu>>>> Prime Garp

Blackbeard>>> Prime Whitebeard

Man Markes by Flames> Big Mom

Akainu> Prime Sengoku

PK Luffy> PK Roger Mid-Diff

Welcome ladies and gentlemen, good morning, good afternoon, good evening and good night, welcome everyone.

The posts by zoteku and FitCantaloupe798 were very helpful in creating this post.

I would appreciate it if you could see their posts, which inspired me.

I am very grateful to both of those people.

-https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/ij0RVzaJjW FitCantaloupe798

-https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/s/Mw13Zo5mT9 zoteku.

Just so you know. It was an extremely long battle, and what did we see right after that extremely long battle?

KAIDO IS UNHARMED.

He wasn't even TIRED.

NO DAMAGE.

Oden and his condition? Injured. So much so that after the Totsuka Paradise, he took a blow and fell.

So no. Oden caught Kaido off guard; if he could kill Kaido with two hits and was truly capable of blitzing him, Oden would have done it.

But he decided to dance for years. And he tried to catch Kaido sleeping, because he knew he had no chance.

In the fight? He caught Kaido preparing his Boro Breath, who wasn't even looking at him.

I'll elaborate on those two points later. I just wanted to summarize quickly WHY this makes sense and HOW it's consistent.

1-Finally, in the first panel we see proof of the relativity of Kaido's base form and Oden's.

As we saw in the panel above.

I must point out how Kaido wasn't worried about transforming into dragon form even knowing Oden's power.

And... By table. No hybrid form, Shurron hakke or Kaenryuu daiko.

He simply didn't think Oden was such a big threat.

This is consistent with Oden agreeing to dance for years.

If Kaido Dragon can be killed with 2 hits and speed blitzed, So Kaido in his base form wouldn't stand a chance (*it's worth remembering that Kaido has gotten stronger over the years*).

2-Speaking again about the battle between Kaido the dragon and Oden.

Here I want to highlight two people.

Zoteku AND FitCantaloupe798,

The credits for some of the information below belong to them.

(*I'll tell you which ones, don't worry, First, let's talk about FitCantaloupe798's arguments. *)

-First of all, as we can see here, Kaido is already in dragon form at the start of the fight. Because did he think this was the most suitable for battle.

If he thought the hybrid form or Kaenryuu Daiko was necessary, he would be using it. If Oden were so strong that two blows could kill Kaido, then Kaido would already be at his maximum.

Here I want to add two points.

Kaido could have had his entire arsenal, or he could have, I simply don't want to belittle Oden and say that Kaido went easy on him. That would be to undermine the narrative of the two. So I prefer to believe That Kaido didn't have that arsenal. This is supported by how the fight unfolded and by some quotes.

-In other words, you can assume he had it. But he definitely didn't use it because he simply didn't think it was necessary.

3-Evidence from FitCantaloupe798:

During chapter 970, On the page

Kaido is seen fighting again in his full Dragon form, this time 6 pages later and right in the middle of the battle. That's when Shinobu joins the fight alongside Oden.

-Pages 11 and 12 of 970, Even in Kaido's final attack on Oden, he remained in dragon form.

-The fight between the Scabbards and Kaido was intended to be a parallel to Kaido vs. Oden, that the only difference was that Oden was dead; that is, no hybrid form, no Shurron Hakke, no Kaenryuu daiko.

-*this is supported by Kaido attempting to replicate the injury inflicted by Oden, but the Scabbards weren't as strong as Oden's.

He let himself get hit, tried to replicate the injury, and was saddened when it didn't work.

And only then did he take them more seriously by using the form base.*

-*Oda drew Kaido more than 10 times in the single chapter covering the fight, and he was attacking in Dragon form in every instance—no hybrid form, no Shuron Hakke, no Kaenryu Daiko.*

-here I temporarily end all mentions of FitCantaloupe798

-I should add that Oda had the opportunity to include the silhouette of the hybrid form; he drew King and Queen in their hybrid forms.

He drew Kaido the dragon himself in silhouette in the flashback.

So if he really wanted to include that shape, he would have done it, but that wasn't his intention.

Even the battle against the Scabbards demonstrates this. Since Kaido says that the only difference between Oden's battle and that one is that Oden was dead, without Kaenryuu daiko, hybrid form, or Shurron hakke.

There is NO quote stating that Kaido explicitly used the hybrid form against Oden.

So assuming he used it is just meaningless. You need proof to assert something.

3-Regarding the fight between Kaido and Oden.

-*As previously mentioned, Kaido was beating up Oden before the two fighters caught each other off guard.*

-This is where the relevant part of zoteku comes in.

I'll leave an image of his post describing why the Boro Breath preparation being affected isn't a drawback.

-Much less a demerit for Kaido. Since this is Kaido's slowest form as well. (The form that blitzed Luffy was a partial hybrid with six-pack abs and smaller arms, and a smaller jaw and head.)

This is consistent with the point that the fight was long and yet Kaido was not defeated or even injured; however, when he prepares his Boro Breath, Oden interrupts him, wounding him at that vulnerable moment.

-And I'll connect that to my point: Kaido wasn't even looking at Oden.

We see this with Kaido to the side, while Oden gets up to perform the Totsuka Paradise technique. Oden had been knocked down and Kaido was preparing a Boro Breath on the samurai; he wasn't facing Oden.

He was sideways. In a sideways position.

-When Oda wants to depict the head moving and the character changing position, he does it with the damn head clearly not moving; this doesn't happen in Kaido's Boro Breath because he doesn't Looking at Oden.

(*take Luffy's Gear 5 as an example, observing Kaido's movements in battle, This doesn't happen here*)

-Here I conclude the points regarding Zoteku (*even though I also gave my own points here, the Zoteku point is the explanation of Boro Breath and Kaido's size, That's his slowest form*)

4-The way Kaido fought. (*These are my points*)

As previously mentioned, Kaido, in his first encounter with Oden, he believed that only the base form would be usable.(He was right. He easily stopped one of Oden's attacks, while Oden claimed that no one in the world could stop Kaido in 20 years, And this display of power was enough for Oden to try and kill Kaido while he was unprepared, drunk, and asleep.)

In the second encounter, he believed that only the dragon form would be useful.

-Kaido doesn't switch between forms while using his hybrid form; he only uses the hybrid form because it's his best form among his dragon, base, and hybrid forms—it's literally his strongest form. With all the abilities of the dragon form, without its speed disadvantages (*it just makes it faster*)

On the roof, he NEVER switched between hybrid form and dragon form Except when I was using the Shurron hakke,

He literally only used Boro Breath in hybrid form when he activated hybrid form.

Three times. Two against Luffy, one against Yamato, possibly more offscreen, and none in dragon form.

-Even with Shurron Hakke, he doesn't remain in dragon form forever; he knows that preparing the boro breath leaves him vulnerable.

(*We have the literal example of Luffy over Kung Gun interfering with the activation of Boro Breath because that moment leaves Kaido vulnerable*)

-As I mentioned before, Kaido wasn't even looking at Oden, probably because he thought he had already knocked him.

In other words, without advanced observation haki. Otherwise, Kaido would have reacted and noticed Oden's presence.

-I know I've already said this, but even after falling and getting up with that fatal injury, Kaido isn't in his hybrid form or Shurron Hakke.

-He DEFINITELY didn't use the Kaenryuu daiko, since all of Kaido's samurai and allies within range of an island would be killed, even Wano would be damaged. Kaido gains nothing from that and... That didn't happen.

We've already seen how strong Kaenryuu Daiko is. He would devastate and melt Oden's body.

-Oden's position in Kaido's top 5 is irrelevant.

All it took for Kaido to recognize Luffy was the sky plitz from chapter 1027, which was WAY beyond Kaido's power level Total power.

-I've already talked about physical diferencie. But this is Oda himself drawing Kaido as physically stronger.

To describe the physically strongest one. It doesn't refer to Kaido from Oden's era, but to the current Kaido or Kaido within that timeframe after Oden.

-The 1167 quote is two decades after Godvaley, implying that Kaido had two years to get stronger while drinking and possibly developing the Shurron Hakke; the Kaenryuu Daiko is an analogy in relation to Oden's death.

So it may have happened around that same time, just like the rest of his arsenal.

It is even said that Kaido regularly fought with WB Prime, Shiki Prime, and Big Mom Prime.

No. Oden wouldn't kill him with two blows. Never. There's a reason why Oden himself said that no one could stop him for 20 years, and there's a reason why Oden danced for years.

This idea is immediately disproven by the long battle and Oden being beaten, while Kaido was unharmed until he was caught preparing Boro Breath when he wasn't even looking at Oden.

Even so? Kaido gets up. When HE catches Oden off guard, without Defense, without named attacks, and without any indication of Haki, Kaido delivers a blow, Oden DOES NOT get up.

The manga is very clear about who is stronger.

Kaido is only described as the strongest pirate currently, where he reached his peak.

Just like his reputation, the pirate, drunkard, living being, man, and "the strongest" in the world and in history.

-In conclusion, Kaido did not use (or did not have) his entire arsenal at that time.

-And he was DEFINITELY not in his physical prime.

Kaido's base form back then was relative to Oden, but Dragon Kaido was superior, and the current Kaido is also superior.

r/OnePieceScaling

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Who wins this free for all?

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Shanks comeback is crazy, back in the days you would be crazy if you said he beats Kaidou while today many people think he is Roger level or may even beat him

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Beginning of Z Goku comes to OP, who is the strongest he can beat?

If sengoku decided to fight shanks and his crew never stood a chance

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One thing i dont understand is why were the seven warlords even considered 1 of the 3 great powers that maintained balance? Cause apart from mihawk nobody else stands a chance against yonkos or admirals. Was it just marine propaganda?

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