Non-noble ancestral documentation: how far back can you go?

Non-noble ancestral documentation: how far back can you go?

I’ve been belatedly working to take all the images of old documents I’ve saved to Ancestry and convert them to "Sources" that their tree rating system will recognize. It’s made me interested in the earliest concrete dates I can fix for my decidedly non-noble ancestors.

So far, the oldest individual in my tree is a woman named Antonella di Micheli alias La Ferla, my 13th great-grandmother. I don’t know her maiden name or exact date of birth, but I found her (very hard to read) death record. She died on December 29, 1602 in Monreale at the age of 70.

Meanwhile, the earliest birth (well, baptismal) record I have is a 12th great-grandfather, Antonino Capizzi, who was baptized in Monreale onOctober 28, 1564. (I know his parents’ names, but nothing about their births or deaths.)

For some reason, I always figured that, before a certain time period, knowing someone’s exact dates of birth or death was only possible for the nobility or wealthy. I was super surprised to realize how far back I could go with confidence — not just in terms of knowing people’s names and relationships to one another, but exactly when they were born and died.

I’m curious to hear what other people’s experiences have been. What’s the oldest birthday (or death date) you could celebrate for one of your ordinary ancestors?

u/amauberge — 10 hours ago

No proof of marriage -- How does this affect eligibility?

I'm helping a friend through the process, and we're trying to figure out what his best next steps are.

Great-Grandparents: 

  • Date married: unclear (see below).

GGM:

  • Born: 1895, Olszanica, Yavoriv district (Jaworów), Austrian Partition
  • Religion: Jewish
  • Emigration: March 20, 1921 to New York
  • Naturalization: 1936, New York
  • Death: 1972, New York

GGF

  • Born: 1897, Yavoriv (Jaworów)
  • Religion: Jewish
  • Emigration date: same as above
  • Naturalization: 1935, New York
  • Military service: none
  • Death: 1978, New York

Grandmother:

  • Born: 1930, New York
  • Marriage: 1951, New York
  • Citizenship of spouse: Native-born USA
  • Alive

Father:

  • Born: 1954, New York
  • Married: 1980, New York

Individual:

  • Born: 1985
  • Married: 2020

On their naturalization paperwork, his GGF and GGM claim that they were married in Jaworów in December 1920. I've looked through the Jewish marriage records for Jaworów, however, and no record of their marriage, and the passenger manifest for their arrival at Ellis Island lists them as "Single" (although someone has handwritten "husband" and "wife" in the margins).

As yet, I haven't been able to find any documentation that proves they were living in Poland after January 1920, which I understand is a requirement. GGF's parents emigrated with them, but GGM's father died in Jaworów in 1929, and I have that record.

Given all of this, how do you suggest my friend proceed? I don't think he'd be adverse to hiring someone to try and track down his GGP's marriage record, but I'm not sure it'd be worth his time if it simply doesn't exist. And if it doesn't exist, would the fact that his GGP claimed to be married on their naturalization documents be a problem?

Any thoughts/tips/advice would be very appreciated!

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u/amauberge — 13 days ago

[Russian > English] 1871 Jewish marriage record from Congress Poland

Yesterday I posted a document that I thought was the one I'd been searching for, but it turned out to be wrong. I can read enough of the text here to know this is the right one, but I'd still love to know what it says. Thank you!

u/amauberge — 22 days ago

[Russian -> English] 1871 Marriage Record for a Jewish Couple, Poland

Really hoping this is the couple I've been trying to find (my sister's great-great grandparents).

u/amauberge — 22 days ago