u/sixth_order

All the things brought up in early AGOT that never go anywhere are kind of crazy when you pile them up. This one here, I just don't get.

First of all, I'm fairly certain Robert doesn't even like Jaime. So why? And it's not just that he was just thinking on it. He told Ned in Ned's second POV chapter that he'd promised it to Jaime already. Huh?

When Ned tries to quit as Hand, Robert threatened to name Jaime hand. I always kinda thought that was a threat to keep Ned around rather than a serious consideration. But this one Robert flat out says he plans to make Jaime warden of the east.

Second, I don't know if Stannis is aware of this, but to me that's an even worse case of him being bypassed by Robert. He'd have been the perfect person to be warden of the east with a potential war bubbling up.

Third, it's interesting that Ned just assumed Jaime would follow Tywin as Lord of Casterly Rock.

Even before anything has happened, he was already calling her 'the Lannister woman.' During Ned's second POV chapter, he and Robert have this exchange:

Dawn broke as they crested a low ridge, and finally the king pulled up. By then they were miles south of the main party. Robert was flushed and exhilarated as Ned reined up beside him. "Gods," he swore, laughing, "it feels good to get out and ride the way a man was meant to ride! I swear, Ned, this creeping along is enough to drive a man mad." He had never been a patient man, Robert Baratheon. "That damnable wheelhouse, the way it creaks and groans, climbing every bump in the road as if it were a mountain … I promise you, if that wretched thing breaks another axle, I'm going to burn it, and Cersei can walk!"

Ned laughed. "I will gladly light the torch for you."

"Good man!" The king clapped him on the shoulder. "I've half a mind to leave them all behind and just keep going."

Now at this point, Bran had fallen from the tower but Ned had no idea Cersei was involved in that. And the Lady incident had not happened yet. And Ned laughed here at the idea of Cersei being forced to walk all the way to King's Landing. And Ned almost never laughs.

The whole fake kiss thing between Sansa and Sandor has made think about other times characters may be misremembering things. So we get to Barbrey.

She pulled off her glove and touched his knee, pale flesh against dark stone. “Brandon loved his sword. He loved to hone it. ‘I want it sharp enough to shave the hair from a woman’s cunt,’ he used to say. And how he loved to use it. ‘A bloody sword is a beautiful thing,’ he told me once.”

There she quotes Brandon directly, so i do believe Brandon said this. And it's right in line from the limited info we know of him. She continues.

The day I learned that Brandon was to marry Catelyn Tully, though … there was nothing sweet about that pain. He never wanted her, I promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together … but Rickard Stark had great ambitions too. Southron ambitions that would not be served by having his heir marry the daughter of one of his own vassals.

Here she does not quote him. So it makes me think. Either Brandon never said this and Barbrey just convinced herself he did. Or Brandon did say it and lied to her face. In Catelyn's POV when Brandon is mentioned there is absolutely no hint of anything indicating Brandon was opposed to marrying her. And there's the fact Brandon would've known about the potential match long before Barbrey learned of it.

Then there's the whole "southron ambitions" thing. Which has become almost an article of faith amongst the fandom even though that idea is only presented once by someone extremely biased. Now here, I'm not certain if Barbrey is saying that Brandon told her his father had southron ambitions if it's her own commentary.

She also accuses Rickard Stark's former maester Walys of filling Rickard's head with "notions." According to Barbrey, Walys had a Hightower mother and he proposed the Tully match. Not sure how that makes sense since the reach wasn't involved in the STAB alliance.

Loved it, obviously. Haven't read a series this passionately since ASOIAF.

RIP Threetrees and Cathil. Really got attached to the northmen, except Dow he's kind of an ass.

Furious gave Ladisla his just due, so that was nice. And Raynault dead too. When Sult was telling Glokta about gathering votes, it almost felt like the TV show Veep, except in a grimdark fantasy way not a sitcom way.

Glokta managed to kill two messengers sent under a banner of peace. You'd think the Gurkish would learn not to bargain with him at some point. One thing about Glokta though I hadn't thought of until West mentioned it. Glokta was capture and tortured, but West all his men died. Glokta doesn't think about any of them once to my recollection. Never mentions one person in his company or anything. Glokta told Eider pain only makes you feel sorry for yourself. Guess it's true.

Really really liked Jezal in this book. He, Logen, Ferro, Quai, Bayaz and Longfoot give new meaning to the term motley crew.

Looking forward to The Last Argument of Kings.

In GOT, when Jon first meets Mance and Mance asks why Jon wants to join them, Jon talks about Mormont knowing about Craster's offerings to the white walkers and he wants to fight for the living. Using the truth to tell a lie, very Cersei of him.

In ASOS, when they first meet, Jon says this:

Jon took another swallow of mead. There is only one tale that he might believe. "You say you were at Winterfell, the night my father feasted King Robert."

"I did say it, for I was."

"Then you saw us all. Prince Joffrey and Prince Tommen, Princess Myrcella, my brothers Robb and Bran and Rickon, my sisters Arya and Sansa. You saw them walk the center aisle with every eye upon them and take their seats at the table just below the dais where the king and queen were seated."

"I remember."

"And did you see where I was seated, Mance?" He leaned forward. "Did you see where they put the bastard?"

Mance Rayder looked at Jon's face for a long moment. "I think we had best find you a new cloak," the king said, holding out his hand.

In Jon's first POV chapter in AGOT, his first line is about the fact sometimes he was happy to be a bastard and that was one of those times. Though Jon was also really drunk at the time.

Joffrey dies? I've been thinking back on it. I think there's been a different actor for him each season (not counting the baby) and I can't remember if he's ever said an actual line of dialogue.

I personally don't like Luke and Jace, but at least they had some characterization. And for Jace specifically, in season 2, he had tons of scenes with Rhaenyra. Joffrey not so much.

Is it going to hit the same?

Alaric Stark's older brother who died fighting against Maegor's former KG knights who led a mutiny at Castle Black. He beheaded one of the traitors. When the other mutineer Raymund Mallery fled beyond the wall, Walton pursued him but he and his men were attacked by giants. Walton managed to kill 2 giants before falling himself.

Shame of it is, Raymund's head was delivered at castle black by a wildling chieftain just 6 months later. So Walton didn't even need to pursue them. Still pretty badass killing two giants.

Sidenote: Jaehaerys I is by far the best targ king, but he kinda bungled how he handled this aftermath. Alaric tells Jaehaerys Walton died because of the traitors they sent up north. And Jaehaerys just goes "well I didn't mean to." Come on man. You can do better than that.

It's not just that it's a standard practice in westeros. But the people participating in it also treat it as a regular occurrence. Obviously, Theon is the poster boy of it, but he admittedly makes for a terrible martyr given all the shit he pulls. But Theon isn't the only example of this.

In ADWD, Jon takes many child hostages from Tormund.

The northmen glanced at one another. “Hostages,” mused The Norrey. “Tormund has agreed to this?”

It was that, or watch his people die. “My blood price, he called it,” said Jon Snow, “but he will pay.”

“Aye, and why not?” Old Flint stomped his cane against the ice. “Wards, we always called them, when Winterfell demanded boys of us, but they were hostages, and none the worse for it.”

"None but them whose sires displeased the Kings o’ Winter,” said The Norrey. “Those came home shorter by a head. So you tell me, boy … if these wildling friends o’ yours prove false, do you have the belly to do what needs be done?”

Ask Janos Slynt.

No big deal, beheading children whose fathers act up. Kings of Winter were very hard men in a hard time though. But then there's Hoster Blackwood.

“Lord Commander. I’m your hostage, Hoster. Hos, they call me.” He grinned.

Does he think this is a lark? “Pray, who are they?” “My friends. My brothers.”

“I am not your friend and I am not your brother.” That cleaned the grin off the boy’s face. Jaime turned to Lord Tytos. “My lord, let there be no misunderstanding here. Lord Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, Sandor Clegane, Brynden Tully, this woman Stoneheart … all these are outlaws and rebels, enemies to the king and all his leal subjects. If I should learn that you or yours are hiding them, protecting them, or assisting them in any way, I will not hesitate to send you your son’s head. I hope you understand that. Understand this as well: I am not Ryman Frey.”

Rude, but at least Jaime isn't sugarcoating things. Although Hoster probably won't sleep easy going forward. The other things is even if the children don't end up getting killed, it ruins family relations. Theon goes back home and he's a stranger, while in winterfell nobody other than Robb seemingly cared for him. In the case of Eustace Osgrey, his daughter Alysanne wouldn't even speak to him anymore.

This is a lot of text to say: it all really sucks

When Jon meets Mance:

“Bael the Bard,” said Jon, remembering the tale that Ygritte had told him in the Frostfangs, the night he’d almost killed her.

“Would that I were. I will not deny that Bael’s exploit inspired mine own … but I did not steal either of your sisters that I recall. Bael wrote his own songs, and lived them. I only sing the songs that better men have made. More mead?”

“No,” said Jon. “If you had been discovered … taken …”

“Your father would have had my head off.” The king gave a shrug. “Though once I had eaten at his board I was protected by guest right. The laws of hospitality are as old as the First Men, and sacred as a heart tree.”

Mance is a traitor, a turncloak and a deserter and he still says guest right would protect him if he'd been discovered at winterfell. So where is the line with guest right?

If he actually has wanted to assassinate Joffrey. With the caveat that he'd do it in a fashion to try and get away with it.

I'm currently rereading the post Dance period in Fire&Blood just as a refresher. The way they describe Aegon and Jaehaera is just heartbreaking.

“Both of them are broken,” Grand Maester Munkun declared in a letter to the Conclave. The girl had witnessed the murder of her twin brother at the hands of Blood and Cheese. The king had lost all four of his own brothers, then watched his uncle feed his mother to a dragon. “These are not normal children,” Munkun wrote. “They have no joy in them; they neither laugh nor play.

Aegon seldom smiles and never laughs, but neither does he display any outward signs of anger or fear, save in regards to dragons, the very mention of which sends him into a rare rage. Orwyle was wont to call His Grace calm and self-possessed; I say the boy is dead inside. He walks the halls of the Red Keep like a ghost. Brothers, I must be frank. I fear for our king, and for the kingdom.”

It also makes me think it's a wonder Sansa didn't lose her mind while she was prisoner at King's Landing. Arya, Bran and Jon also go through a lot of shit, but they're active, moving, doing things. They're not just sitting around hearing about their families being killed. And in Aegon and Jaehaera case, they witnessed one murder of a family member.

And on Aegon, I think it's really sad especially because it feels to me like he's just not able to muster any feelings for anything, but he wants to. I say that because when the sickness was spreading through King's Landing, Aegon took the time to visit the sick, sit with them, listen to them. At least Aegon had Rhaena and Baela around. Jaehaera only had Alicent and she wouldn't see her anymore because Alicent kept telling her to kill Aegon in his sleep.

The part where Egg says Aerys I read about dragons coming back in a prophecy. Where would he have read this? The last dragon died in 153 AC, little over 50 years from the time period in TMK.

The Mystery Knight:

"Your dragon's egg." They put it in his cradle. Dunk was so used to Egg that sometimes he forgot Aegon was a prince. Of course they'd put a dragon egg inside his cradle. "Well, see that you don't go mentioning this egg where anyone is like to hear."

"I'm not stupid, ser." Egg lowered his voice. "Someday the dragons will return. My brother Daeron's dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy. Maybe it will be my egg that hatches. That would be splendid."

"Would it?" Dunk had his doubts.

(And as an aside, I still think it's odd that Daeron told Dunk the thing about Targaryens remaining despite dragons being gone if he dreamed that the dragons would come back)

More land occupied by the crown can only be a good thing for the crown, right? I understand something horrible happened there but it did at Harrenhal too and nobody said let's just leave it as a ruin.

It's a thing that comes up a lot, too. Of what to do with second and third princes. If Summerhall was still a thing, Robert could've given it to Stannis. May be that softens the blow of not getting Storm's End.

In ACOK after a council meeting where they read Stannis' letter, Varys and Tyrion have a talk.

"Robert's bastards? What of them?"

"He fathered eight, to the best of my knowing," Varys said as he wrestled with the saddle. "Their mothers were copper and honey, chestnut and butter, yet the babes were all black as ravens . . . and as ill-omened, it would seem. So when Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen slid out between your sister's thighs, each as golden as the sun, the truth was not hard to glimpse."

Tyrion shook his head. If she had borne only one child for her husband, it would have been enough to disarm suspicion . . . but then she would not have been Cersei.

As an aside, I think it's interesting Varys makes it sound like it was obvious and everyone should've known. Makes me think there might have been more whispers about it all.

But what Tyrion says at the end: if Joffrey was Robert's son, could she have gotten away with Myrcella and Tommen being Jaime's? In theory that could make their bastardy even more obvious if their older brother looks just like Robert.

It's an odd hill to live on. First his war on completion percentage and now this? Some QBs throw more than others, so it basically adjusts for attempts same as like points per 100 possessions does in basketball.

And btw Tom Brady led the league in td percentage 2 of his 3 MVP seasons, Mahomes led in both his MVP seasons and Lamar led it in his first MVP season and in 2024 when he was first team all pro but not MVP. Brock Purdy led in td percentage in 2023 during Lamar's second MVP season and Brock finished 4th in MVP voting that year.

So it's well indicative of an excellent season.