
r/asoiaf

[Spoilers Main] Ned really should have…
Just told Robert the truth when he was on his death bed. A royal proclamation from an alive Robert would have held more weight.
(Spoilers Main) Another point Team Blackfyre could have used in their favour
Apart from Daemon Blackfyre being sexy with washboard abs, being legitimized by his father, owning the Targaryen sword Blackfyre (a symbol of legitimacy), Daeron II's questionable legitimacy through rumours, lords being disgruntled by increasing dornish influence and pro-dornish policies, etc, Team Blackfyre could have also used the fact that the last dragon died when Daeron II was born - blaming him for the death of dragons. The smallfolk (and some lords) are a superstitious bunch and would easily lap up this anti-daeron propaganda. Do you think they would have done that?
[Spoilers Extended] is the ending of the series going to be apocalyptic?
Is the others invasion going to be apocalyptic? In the show the others invasion stopped in the north, but in the books I imagine they’ll get further south, so is the ending of the series going to have most of Westeros’ population die?
The Life of Rhaegar Targaryen, according to Book Canon [Spoilers MAIN]
Introduction
The Mad King Play has stirred the online fandom into a frenzy. Was Rhaegar a truly bad dude, or was he a tragic hero?
A lot of the discourse feels weirdly emotional. And it seems that a startling amount of "fans" haven’t actually read George R. R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire. So, I composed Rhaegar’s life in chronological order based on direct quotes from the books. I bolded certain areas that I think are important to his biography, thematics, symbolism, and foreshadowing. I also included quotes from adjacent characters where I deemed them crucial to Rhaegar’s story, especially those centered around Lyanna Stark. Be warned, this is long. But for fans of ASOIAF, it should be enjoyable.
1 Birth & Early Life
“There was a melancholy to Prince Rhaegar, a sense… of doom. He was born in grief, my queen, and that shadow hung over him all his days," [said Barristand Selmy}. Viserys had spoken of Rhaegar’s birth only once. Perhaps the tale saddened him too much. “It was the shadow of Summerhall that haunted him, was it not?” [asked Dany]. “Yes,” [replied Barristan Selmy (Arstan Whitebeard)].”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 42 (Daenerys IV).
“The smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died.”
A Feast for Crows, (Chapter 35) Samwell IV, spoken by Maester Aemon
“As a young boy, the Prince of Dragonstone was bookish to a fault. He was reading so early that men said Queen Rhaella must have swallowed some books and a candle whilst he was in her womb. Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children. The maesters were awed by his wits, but his father’s knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again. Until one day Prince Rhaegar found something in his scrolls that changed him. No one knows what it might have been, only that the boy suddenly appeared early one morning in the yard as the knights were donning their steel. He walked up to Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, and said, 'I will require a sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior.'
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 8 (Daenerys I), Barristan Selmy (Arstan Whitebeard) narrating.*
2 Young Adulthood
“Prince Rhaegar’s prowess was unquestioned, but he seldom entered the lists. He never loved the song of swords the way that Robert did, or Jaime Lannister. It was something he had to do, a task the world had set him. He did it well, for he did everything well. That was his nature. But he took no joy in it. Men said that he loved his harp much better than his lance… When he was young, His Grace rode brilliantly in a tourney at Storm’s End, defeating Lord Steffon Baratheon, Lord Jason Mallister, the Red Viper of Dorne, and a mystery knight who proved to be the infamous Simon Toyne, chief of the kingswood outlaws. He broke twelve lances against Ser Arthur Dayne that day. [But he was not champion that day], Your Grace. That honor went to another knight of the Kingsguard, who unhorsed Prince Rhaegar in the final tilt.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 42 (Daenerys IV), Barristan Selmy (Arstan Whitebeard) narrating.
“...And yet, Summerhall was the place the prince loved best. He would go there from time to time, with only his harp for company. Even the knights of the Kingsguard did not attend him there. He liked to sleep in the ruined hall, beneath the moon and stars, and whenever he came back he would bring a song. When you heard him play his high harp with the silver strings and sing of twilights and tears and the death of kings, you could not but feel that he was singing of himself and those he loved,” [said Barristan Selmy].
“What of the Usurper? Did he play sad songs as well?” [asked Dany]. Barristan chuckled. “Robert? Robert liked songs that made him laugh, the bawdier the better. He only sang when he was drunk... Robert was much—” As one, her dragons lifted their heads and roared.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 42 (Daenerys IV)
It was said that no man ever knew Prince Rhaegar, truly. I had the privilege of seeing him in tourney, though, and often heard him play his harp with its silver strings… Myles Mooton was Prince Rhaegar’s squire, and Richard Lonmouth after him. When they won their spurs, he knighted them himself, and they remained his close companions. Young Lord Connington was dear to the prince as well, but his oldest friend was Arthur Dayne.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 42 (Daenerys IV), Barristan Selmy narrating.
“I know little of Rhaegar. Only the tales Viserys told, and he was a little boy when our brother died. What was he truly like?”
The old man considered a moment. “Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 42 (Daenerys IV)
“My brother Rhaegar was a fierce warrior... Ser Jorah says that he was the last of the dragons.”
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 46 (Daenerys V)
[Once] Rhaegar was returning from Dorne, and he and his escort had lingered [at Griffin’s Roost] a fortnight. He was so young then... At the welcoming feast, the prince had taken up his silver stringed harp and played for them. A song of love and doom, Jon Connington recalled, and every woman in the hall was weeping when he put down the harp… “Your father’s lands are beautiful,” Prince Rhaegar had said... He'd... replied, “One day they will all be mine.” As if that could impress a prince who was heir to the entire realm, from the Arbor to the Wall.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 61 (The Griffin Reborn)
Many a night Cersei had watched Prince Rhaegar in the hall, playing his silver-stringed harp with those long, elegant fingers of his. Had any man ever been so beautiful? He was more than a man, though. His blood was the blood of old Valyria, the blood of dragons and gods. When she was just a little girl, her father had promised her that she would marry Rhaegar…
She was ten when she finally saw her prince in the flesh, at the tourney her lord father had thrown to welcome King Aerys to the west. …The cheers of the smallfolk had echoed.. They cheered Father twice as loudly as they cheered the king... but only half as loudly as they cheered Prince Rhaegar. Seventeen and new to knighthood [in AC 276], Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists... Two of her uncles fell before his lance, along with a dozen of her father’s finest jousters... By night the prince played his silver harp and made her weep. When she had been presented to him, Cersei had almost drowned in the depths of his sad purple eyes. He has been wounded, she recalled thinking, but I will mend his hurt when we are wed. Next to Rhaegar, even her beautiful Jaime had seemed no more than a callow boy…
Her laughter died at tourney’s end. There had been… only cold silences and chilly looks between the king and her father. Later... the girl had gone to her aunt in tears, not understanding. “Your father proposed the match,” Lady Genna told her, “but Aerys refused to hear of it. ‘You are my most able servant, Tywin,’ the king said, ‘but a man does not marry his heir to his servant’s daughter.’ …Your father will find another man for you, a better man than Rhaegar.” ...Father found no better man. Instead he gave me Robert.
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 24 (Cersei V)
The old king, Aerys II Targaryen... sent... [Steffon Baratheon] to seek a bride for Prince Rhaegar, who had no sisters to wed [in 278 AC]... [Returning] home from his fruitless mission [to Volantis]... The storm came up suddenly... The lord’s two-masted galley Windproud broke up within sight of his castle. From its parapets his two eldest sons [Robert and Stannis] had watched as their father’s ship was smashed against the rocks and swallowed by the waters...
A Clash of Kings, Prologue
"If I had been born more timely... Rhaegar would have married me instead of Elia, and it would all have come out different. If Rhaegar had been happy in his wife, he would not have needed the Stark girl."
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 43 (Daenerys IV).
“Her duty.” The word felt cold upon [Dany’s] tongue. “You saw my brother Rhaegar wed. Tell me, did he wed for love or duty?”
The old knight hesitated. “Princess Elia was a good woman, Your Grace. She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit. I know the prince was very fond of her.”
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 23 (Daenerys IV)
“[Tywin] had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage… no doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar’s wife to die in childbed. Elia of Dorne was never the healthiest of women.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 11 (Jaime II)
Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar’s wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 61 (The Griffin Reborn)
[In the House of the Undying], Dany moved on... The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wood bed. “What better name for a king?”
“Will you make a song for him?” the woman [confirmed by Martin to be Elia] asked. “He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.” He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist…
A Clash of Kings, Chapter 48 (Danaerys IV)
“He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet.”
A Feast for Crows, (Chapter 35) Samwell IV, spoken by Maester Aemon
After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon’s birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 61 (The Griffin Reborn), narrated by Jon Connington
“Prince Rhaegar had two children,” Ser Barristan told him. “Rhaenys was a little girl, Aegon a babe in arms.”
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 67, (The Kingbreaker)
3 Lyanna’s Character Buildup
“Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. ‘The wolf blood,’ my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch... Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her… She was… beautiful and willful, and dead before her time.”
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 22 (Arya II)
Two children danced across the godswood [at Winterfell]... as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two... If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. “You be quiet, stupid... It’s just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?”
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 34 (Bran III)
“You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert,” Ned told him. “You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath...”
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 30 (Eddard VII)
“You ride like a northman, milady,” Harwin said when he’d drawn them to a halt. “Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 17 (Arya III)
Not even Lord Rickard’s daughter [Lyanna] could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 32 (Reek III)
Brandon was fostered at Barrowton... but he spent most of his time riding the Rills. He loved to ride. His little sister took after him in that. A pair of centaurs, those two.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 41, The (Turncloack)
“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell... when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale... Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.”
Chapter 35 (Eddard IX), A Game of Thrones.
“Why would Jon Arryn take a sudden interest in [King Robert’s] baseborn children? …For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.”
Chapter 35 (Eddard IX), A Game of Thrones.
Robert was betrothed to marry [Lyanna]... [continued later]
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 53 (Bran VI)
4 Lead up to Harrenhal
Barristan Selmy had known many kings... Aegon the Unlikely... Aegon’s son Jaehaerys... Jaehaerys’s son Aerys... If he had not gone into Duskendale to rescue Aerys from Lord Darklyn’s dungeons, the king might well have died there as Tywin Lannister sacked the town. Then Prince Rhaegar would have ascended the Iron Throne... who would have been a finer king than any of them.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 55 (The Queensguard)
Rhaegar... had never trusted him as he had trusted Arthur Dayne. Harrenhal was proof of that. The year of the false spring... Old Lord Whent had announced the tourney shortly after a visit from his brother, Ser Oswell Whent of the Kingsguard. With Varys whispering in his ear, King Aerys became convinced that his son was conspiring to depose him, that Whent’s tourney was but a ploy to give Rhaegar a pretext for meeting with as many great lords as could be brought together. Aerys had not set foot outside the Red Keep since Duskendale, yet suddenly he announced that he would accompany Prince Rhaegar to Harrenhal, and everything had gone awry from there.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 67, (The Kingbreaker), narrated by Barristan Selmy
“There was one knight [from the Neck],” said Meera, “in the year of the false spring. The Knight of the Laughing Tree… Once... a curious [crannogman, after an adventure to the Isle of Faces]... saw the distant towers of a castle rising beside the lake… “Harrenhal!” Bran knew at once...
Meera smiled. “...A great tourney was about to commence, and champions from all over the land had come to contest it. The king himself was there, with his son the dragon prince. [Many lords and ladies there were, and...] One was the wife of the dragon prince [Elia] who’d brought a dozen lady companions to attend her. The knights all begged them for favors to tie about their lances.” “This isn’t going to be one of those love stories, is it?” Bran asked suspiciously...
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 24 (Bran II)
“...The little crannogman was walking across the field... when he was set upon by three squires… and knocked... to the ground, cursing him for a frogeater... But then they heard a roar. ‘That’s my father’s man you’re kicking,’ howled the she-wolf… The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all. The crannogman was bruised and bloodied, so she took him back to her lair... There he met her pack brothers: the wild wolf [Brandon] who led them, the quiet wolf beside [Ned] him, and the pup [Benjen] who was youngest of the four.
“That evening there was to be a feast... to mark the opening of the tourney… Under Harren’s roof he ate and drank with the wolves... The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head… The storm lord [Robert] drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war... a maid with laughing purple eyes [Ashara Dayne] danced with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf…. but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on [his] behalf... The little crannogman [& Lyanna] spied the three squires who’d attacked him. One served a pitchfork knight, one a porcupine, while the last attended a knight with two towers on his surcoat… but... he feared he would only make a fool of himself and shame his people... before he slept he knelt on the lakeshore, looking across the water to where the Isle of Faces would be, and said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck…”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 24 (Bran II)
5 The Tourney at Harrenhal
“[Rhaegar] won the greatest tourney of them all… the tourney Lord Whent staged at Harrenhal beside the Gods Eye, in the year of the false spring... Besides the jousting, there was a mêlée in the old style fought between seven teams of knights, as well as archery and axe-throwing, a horse race, a tournament of singers, a mummer show, and many feasts and frolics. Lord Whent was as open handed as he was rich. The lavish purses he proclaimed drew hundreds of challengers. Even your royal father came to Harrenhal, when he had not left the Red Keep for long years. The greatest lords and mightiest champions of the Seven Kingdoms rode in that tourney, and the Prince of Dragonstone bested them all.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 43 (Daenerys IV), narrated by Barristan Selmy (Artsan Whitebeard)
“That second day… a mystery knight appeared in the lists... short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield... a white weirwood with a laughing red face… You know the three he challenged… The porcupine knight fell first, then the pitchfork knight, and lastly the knight of the two towers… When his fallen foes sought to ransom horse and armor, the Knight of the Laughing Tree spoke in a booming voice through his helm, saying, ‘Teach your squires honor, that shall be ransom enough.’
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 24 (Bran II), narrated by Meera
Jousting was three-quarters horsemanship, Jaime had always believed.
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 16 (Jaime II)
“You ride like a northman, milady,” Harwin said when he’d drawn them to a halt. “Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 17 (Arya III)
“...The next morning... The Knight of the Laughing Tree had vanished. The king... sent his son the dragon prince to seek the man, but all they ever found was his painted shield, hanging abandoned in a tree. It was the dragon prince who won that tourney in the end.”
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 24 (Bran II)
…When the jousting began, the day belonged to Rhaegar Targaryen. The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him. Brandon fell to him, and Bronze Yohn Royce, and even the splendid Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion’s crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost.
Chapter 4 (Eddard I), A Game of Thrones.
“But that was the tourney when he crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 43 (Daenerys IV).
6 Robert’s Rebellion
The following paragraph is from A World of Ice and Fire. Could not find better material, sorry.
The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King's Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city… Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands… Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.
A World of Ice and Fire (The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring)
[Note 1 - what are Rhaegar and Lyanna both doing out during Winter far from home? And what are the odds of coincidentally running into each other?]
Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart. Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride.
A Game of Thrones (Eddard I), A Game of Thrones
Robert was betrothed to marry [Lyanna], but Prince Rhaegar carried her off and raped her,” Bran explained… [continued later]
Chapter 53 (Bran VI), A Game of Thrones.
“And Rhaegar . . . how many times do you think he raped your sister? How many hundreds of times?” [Robert’s] voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 12 (Eddard II)
“[Brandon Stark] was on his way to Riverrun [to marry Catelyn Tully] when… he heard about Lyanna, and went to King’s Landing instead... He rode into the Red Keep with a few companions, shouting for Prince Rhaegar to come out and die. But Rhaegar wasn’t there. Aerys sent his guards to arrest them all… Aerys accused them of treason and summoned their fathers to court... When they came, he had them murdered... There were trials... Lord Rickard demanded trial by combat... Stark armored himself as for battle... Instead they... suspended him from the rafters while two of Aerys’s pyromancers kindled a blaze beneath him... Brandon was brought in... around his neck was a wet leathern cord... The pyromancers roasted Lord Rickard slowly... unless his son could free him. Brandon tried, but the more he struggled, the tighter the cord constricted around his throat. In the end he strangled himself. As for Lord Rickard... [he cooked.]
Clash of Kings, Chapter 55 (Catelyn VII)
In his youth, Ned had fostered at the Eyrie, and the childless Lord Arryn had become a second father to him and his fellow ward, Robert Baratheon. When the Mad King Aerys Targaryen had demanded their heads [next], the Lord of the Eyrie had raised his moon-and-falcon banners in revolt rather than give up those he had pledged to protect.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 2 (Catelyn I)
“...Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the Bite... his daughter got Stark to the Sisters... He left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon Snow, she named him… By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. ‘This Baratheon is fearless,’ I said. ‘He fights the way a king should fight.’ Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, ‘In this world only winter is certain..."
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 9 (Davos I), spoken by Lord Godric Borrell
The war had raged for close to a year. Lords great and small had flocked to Robert’s banners; others had remained loyal to Targaryen. The mighty Lannisters of Casterly Rock, the Wardens of the West, had remained aloof from the struggle, ignoring calls to arms from both rebels and royalists.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 12 (Eddard II)
Jon Connington had been Prince Rhaegar’s friend. When Merryweather failed so dismally to contain Robert’s Rebellion and Prince Rhaegar could not be found, Aerys had turned to the next best thing, and raised Connington to the Handship.
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 27 (Jaime III)
The Battle of the Bells… [Jon Connington] had lost it all at Stoney Sept in his arrogance. Robert Baratheon had been hiding somewhere in the town, wounded and alone. Jon Connington had known that... Robert’s head upon a spear would have put an end to the rebellion... So he swept down on Stoney Sept, closed off the town, and began a search... Yet whilst the search dragged on, Eddard Stark and Hoster Tully came down upon the town with a rebel army. Bells and battle followed, and Robert emerged from his brothel with a blade in hand, and almost slew Jon on the steps of the old sept... Myles Toyne [told him] “Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it…”
...So Robert escaped me…
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 61 (The Griffin Reborn)
After the Battle of the Bells… Aerys Targaryen had stripped [Jon Connington] of his titles and sent him into exile in a mad fit of ingratitude and suspicion.
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 61 (The Griffin Reborn)
“After dancing griffins [Jon Connington] lost the Battle of the Bells, Aerys exiled him… He had finally realized that Robert was no mere outlaw lord to be crushed at whim, but the greatest threat House Targaryen had faced since Daemon Blackfyre.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 37 (Jaime V)
The Mad King... had chopped Lord Jon after the Battle of the Bells... The cousin, though—Red Ronnet’s father—had joined the rebellion and been rewarded with Griffin’s Roost after the Trident.
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 27 (Jaime III)
Ser Kevan had expected that afterwards Aerys would have no choice but to summon Tywin once more… but the Mad King had turned to the Lords Chelsted and Rossart instead, and paid for it with life and crown.
A Dance with Dragons (Epilogue)
[After the Battle of the Bells], the king reminded Lewyn Martell gracelessly that he held Elia and sent him to take command of the ten thousand Dornishmen coming up the kingsroad. Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy rode to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of griffins’ men.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 37 (Jaime V)
Prince Rhaegar returned from the south and persuaded his father to swallow his pride and summon my father [Tywin Lannister]. But no raven returned from Casterly Rock, and that made the king even more afraid. He saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always there to point out any he might have missed. So His Grace commanded his alchemists to place caches of wildfire all over King's Landing… [while] Rhaegar was busy marshaling an army.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 37 (Jaime V)
“Not every man is what he seems, and a prince especially has good cause to be wary … but go too far down that road, and the mistrust can poison you, make you sour and fearful.” King Aerys was one such. By the end, even Rhaegar saw that plain enough.
Dance with Dragons, Chapter 24 (The Lost Lord), narrated by Jon Connington
The day had been windy when [Jaime Lannister] said farewell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three-headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. “Your Grace,” Jaime had pleaded, “let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine.”
Prince Rhaegar shook his head. “My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour.” Jaime’s anger had risen up in his throat. “I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard.”
“Then guard the king,” Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. “When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey.”
Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime’s shoulder. “When this battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but... well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.” [Note 2 - reference to the secret meeting that was to occur at Harrenhal if Aerys II hadn’t shown up?] Those were the last words Rhaegar Targaryen ever spoke to him. Outside the gates an army had assembled, whilst another descended on the Trident. So the Prince of Dragonstone mounted up and donned his tall black helm, and rode forth to his doom.
A Feast for Crow, Chapter 8 (Jaime I)
7 The Trident
The Darrys and Rygers and Mootons... fought with Rhaegar Targaryen on the trident.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 29 (Catelyn V)
Ser Raymun lived under the king’s peace, but his family had fought beneath Rhaegar’s dragon banners at the Trident, and his three older brothers had died there.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 17 (Eddard III)
Your brother Rhaegar brought as many men to the Trident,” Ser Jorah admitted, “but of that number, no more than a tenth were knights. The rest were archers, freeriders, and foot soldiers armed with spears and pikes.”
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 36 (Daenerys IV)
Ser Barristan of House Selmy… Wounded by arrow, spear, and sword at the Battle of the Trident whilst fighting beside his Sworn Brothers and Rhaegar Prince of Dragonstone.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 67 (Jaime VIII)
In the Battle of the Trident. I fought for Prince Rhaegar, though he never knew my name... The singers would have us believe it was all Rhaegar and Robert struggling in the stream for a woman both of them claimed to love, but I assure you, other men were fighting too, and I was one.
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 37 (Brienne VI)
They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert’s hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it.
Chapter 4 (Eddard I), A Game of Thrones.
Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name…
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 23 (Daenerys IV)
When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor.
Chapter 4 (Eddard I), A Game of Thrones.
Rhaegar [battled] the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and [died] for the woman he loved.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 4 (Daenerys I)
“You took a wound from Rhaegar,” Ned reminded him. “So when the Targaryen host broke and ran, you gave the pursuit into my hands.”
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 12 (Eddard II)
Rhaegar lost on the Trident. He lost the battle, he lost the war, he lost the kingdom, and he lost his life. His blood swirled downriver with the rubies from his breastplate, and Robert the Usurper rode over his corpse to steal the Iron Throne. Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.
A Storm of Swords, Chapter 23 (Daenerys II)
“I’m not,” Arya said, trying to brush a tangle out of Nymeria’s matted grey fur. “Mycah and I are going to ride upstream and look for rubies at the ford.” “Rubies,” Sansa said, lost. “What rubies?” Arya gave her a look like she was so stupid. “Rhaegar’s rubies. This is where King Robert killed him and won the crown.”
Chapter 15 (Sansa I), A Game of Thrones.
If [Cersei Lannister] had only married Rhaegar as the gods intended, he would never have looked twice at the wolf girl. Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons. She had never forgiven Robert for killing him.
A Feast for Crows, Chapter 24 (Cersei V)
Aerys Targaryen must have thought that his gods had answered his prayers when Lord Tywin Lannister appeared before the gates of King’s Landing with an army twelve thousand strong, professing loyalty. So the mad king had ordered his last mad act. He had opened his city to the lions at the gate.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 12 (Eddard II)
That took Tyrion by surprise... “So the Sack of King’s Landing was your work as well?”
“For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king... I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly...”
A Clash of Kings, Chapter 25 (Tyrion VI)
“Prince Rhaegar had two children,” Ser Barristan told him. “Rhaenys was a little girl, Aegon a babe in arms. When Tywin Lannister took King’s Landing, his men killed both of them. He served the bloody bodies up in crimson cloaks, a gift for the new king.”
A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 67, (The Kingbreaker)
Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. [Ned] remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn." Not even Jon Arryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage, to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 12 (Eddard II)
“Robert fought a war to win her back. He killed Rhaegar on the Trident with his hammer… but Lyanna died [during the Rebellion] and [Robert] never got her back at all.”
Chapter 53 (Bran VI), A Game of Thrones
8 Tower of Joy
[Ned] dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood… It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory.
Chapter 39 (Eddard X), A Game of Thrones.
“And Rhaegar . . . how many times do you think he raped your sister [on the road and at the Tower of Joy]? How many hundreds of times?” His voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him. [King Robert] jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at Ned [continued later].
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 12 (Eddard II)
In the dream [Ned’s] friends rode with him, as they had in life… They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips... Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone… Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.
[Ned told them,] “I looked for you on the trident [and you were not there]… when King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king... and I wondered where you were.… I came down to Storm’s End to lift the siege, and the Lords Tyrell Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne… Ser Gerold pointed out, “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death. “Lord Eddard,” Lyanna called again. “I promise,” he whispered. “Lya, I promise . . .
Chapter 39 (Eddard X), A Game of Thrones.
They had been seven against three [outside the Tower of Joy], yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed. He did not think it omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years.
Chapter 39 (Eddard X), A Game of Thrones.
I was with her when she died,” Ned reminded the king. “She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father.” He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned... the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing... Ned could recall none of it. “I bring her flowers when I can,” he said. “Lyanna was... fond of flowers.” Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge.
Chapter 4 (Eddard I), A Game of Thrones.
[Note 3 - notice the flower theme throughout all of Rhaegar and Lyanna’s interactions.]
Confused, [King Robert] shook his head. “Rhaegar... Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have [Cersei].” The king drained his cup.
Chapter 39 (Eddard X), A Game of Thrones.
9 Epilogue
[Ned] was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. “Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses…
A Game of Thrones, Chapter X (Eddard XIII)
[Years later], a blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.
A Clash of Kings, Chapter 48 (Danaerys IV)
Conclusion
Well, that was a fun dive. I told myself many years ago I would not do another re-read until Winds of Winter was released. Sadly, I’m still telling myself that. But, this was a fun walk down memory lane. Some takeaways:
- Rhaegar is certainly mentioned and discussed frequently enough for us to get a pretty clear picture of who he was.
- I had forgotten how needlessly wordy and windy the text is of Feast and Dance; it’s no wonder we don’t have Winds.
- We don’t need a Robert’s Rebellion book. The events of Roberts Rebellion are slowly being told throughout the main ASOIAF series. Brilliant, actually.
Rhaegar continues shaping the lives of many main characters. And of course, he continues to be an excellent plot device for, juxtaposition, parallelism, and foreshadowing.
> “...wake the dragon… the dragon…” and saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly. “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.
A Game of Thrones, Chapter 68 (Daenerys IX)
If somehow you made it this far, thanks for reading the book-canon Life of Rhaegar Targaryen, The Last Dragon, as of the end of Book 5. The Targaryen ghost haunting all our beloved characters.
Quite a big Retcon/backtracking [SPOILERS Published]
In Sansa 4th chapter in AGOT we get a list of people attained as traitors & while some of these names make sense with later books, but a few of these do not (bolded) and I haven't seen anyone pick up on this:
"The names he read made Sansa hold her breath. Lord Stannis Baratheon, his lady wife, his daughter. Lord Renly Baratheon. Both Lord Royces and their sons. Ser Loras Tyrell. Lord Mace Tyrell, his brothers, uncles, sons. The red priest, Thoros of Myr. Lord Beric Dondarrion. Lady Lysa Arryn and her son, the little Lord Robert. Lord Hoster Tully, his brother Ser Brynden, his son Ser Edmure. Lord Jason Mallister. Lord Bryce Caron of the Marches. Lord Tytos Blackwood. Lord Walder Frey and his heir Ser Stevron. Lord Karyl Vance. Lord Jonos Bracken. Lady Sheila Whent. Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne, and all his sons. So many, she thought as Pycelle read on and on, it will take a whole flock of ravens to send out these commands."
This basically means the Vale & Dorne were also suppose to go against the Iron Throne . What do you think was the original plan?
[Spoilers AGOT] Jaime Lannister as Warden of the East? - AGOT, Eddard II
"Kingslayer," Ned said. The rumors were true, then. He rode on dangerous ground now, he knew. "An able and courageous man, no doubt," he said carefully, "but his father is Warden of the West, Robert. In time Ser Jaime will succeed to that honor. No one man should hold both East and West." He left unsaid his real concern; that the appointment would put half the armies of the realm into the hands of Lannisters." - AGOT, Eddard II (Page 100)
Does this not contradict the fact that Kingsguard can inherit no titles, as Jaime would be inheriting the Warden of the West going against the oath that Barristan details in AGOT, Sansa V - ""I was chosen for the White Swords in my twenty-third year. It was all I had ever dreamed, from the moment I first took sword in hand. I gave up all claim to my ancestral keep."
This could just be an idea that was altered as the narrative went on but I am interested to hear what people think.
[Spoilers Extended] Who was the last person to see dragons alive? Not including Daenerys's dragons
reddit.comFavorite Glup Shitto from ASOIAF (spoiler main)
As of right now my top two are Vortimer Crane Master at Arms for Highgarden and Lucifer Dryland King of Brimstone and Lord of Hellgate Hall.
[Spoilers Published] Ned failed not because he was honourable but because he was too late.
People speak of Eddard's failure because he was too honourable. But i beg to differ. Eddard Stark failed because he came too late. When Ned comes to King's Landing, this is not a city that was fresh off a civil war or to serve a brand new regime. He is coming into a nest of corrupt schemers, liars and a Lannister Occupied Government. There was nothing that he could have done that would have not upset the Lannisters and brought war. And a great blame for the rot that festered falls on Jon Arryn who enabled Robert's excesses and failed to keep him in check.
If Ned was named Hand after Robert's coronation, he would have done a better job to keep Robert in check, heal the realm and would not have allowed corruption to spread the way Jon did. Alas, by the time he came to the capital, there was not much to be done. Ned was set up to fail. What do you think?
How good of a King would Robb have been ?
A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V
Robb studied the sepulcher. "Whose grave is this?"
"Here lies Tristifer, the Fourth of His Name, King of the Rivers and the Hills." Her father had told her his story once. "He ruled from the Trident to the Neck, thousands of years before Jenny and her prince, in the days when the kingdoms of the First Men were falling one after the other before the onslaught of the Andals. The Hammer of Justice, they called him. He fought a hundred battles and won nine-and-ninety, or so the singers say, and when he raised this castle it was the strongest in Westeros." She put a hand on her son's shoulder. "He died in his hundredth battle, when seven Andal kings joined forces against him. The fifth Tristifer was not his equal, and soon the kingdom was lost, and then the castle, and last of all the line. With Tristifer the Fifth died House Mudd, that had ruled the riverlands for a thousand years before the Andals came."
"His heir failed him." Robb ran a hand over the rough weathered stone. "I had hoped to leave Jeyne with child . . . we tried often enough, but I'm not certain . . ."
Do you think any of Robert's 16 bastards will play a pivotal role in the next book ? ( spoilers extended )
A Clash of Kings - Arya IX
Quiet as a shadow, she flitted across the middle bailey, around the Tower of Dread, and through the empty mews, where people said the spirits of dead falcons stirred the air with ghostly wings. She could go where she would. The garrison numbered no more than a hundred men, so small a troop that they were lost in Harrenhal. The Hall of a Hundred Hearths was closed off, along with many of the lesser buildings, even the Wailing Tower. Ser Amory Lorch resided in the castellan's chambers in Kingspyre, themselves as spacious as a lord's, and Arya and the other servants had moved to the cellars beneath him so they would be close at hand. While Lord Tywin had been in residence, there was always a man-at-arms wanting to know your business. But now there were only a hundred men left to guard a thousand doors, and no one seemed to know who should be where, or care much.
As she passed the armory, Arya heard the ring of a hammer. A deep orange glow shone through the high windows. She climbed to the roof and peeked down. Gendry was beating out a breastplate. When he worked, nothing existed for him but metal, bellows, fire. The hammer was like part of his arm. She watched the play of muscles in his chest and listened to the steel music he made. He's strong, she thought. As he took up the long-handled tongs to dip the breastplate into the quenching trough, Arya slithered through the window and leapt down to the floor beside him.
He did not seem surprised to see her. "You should be abed, girl." The breastplate hissed like a cat as he dipped it in the cold water. "What was all that noise?"
A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V
[Spoilers MAIN] Could the Five Year Gap work at a later point in the story?
NEW READER HERE HOPE IM NOT A BROKEN RECORD
So i'm in the post-finishing era of "well why isn't Winds out?" discussion and all signs point to the characters ages being a large factor in GRRM's mega writers block, and I totally get why he scrapped the 5 year time skip post Storm because of all the characters that needed an immediate followup. I see how the mix of "I'd like Sansa to not be 14" and "I want to show what Cersei's doing post-Tywin" is so vexing for him.
SO MY QUESTION IS
Is there a later point in the story that George could implement a time skip so that he could get the Starks/Dany to an acceptable age while also not having to cut any of the post Storm immediate fallout?
So Winds has to start and we need to get Stannis vs Ramsey, Meereen, Young Griff's ascension and The Oldtown battle out of the way. I think you'd have to kill Cersei or have her imprisoned before starting, but is there a point after these battles occur that you think George could jump ahead? What seems the best choice to me is a long Winter while Young Griff holds the throne (fuck then Connington would need to slow his greyscale)
You can't keep dead Jon on Ice for that long (heh) but perhaps he does a bigger "rumors of Lady Stoneheart" thing with Jon prowling throughout Winter as this undead Wildling leader?
I'm sure there are others who've put more thought into it than me but can someone find a secondary point in the timeline where this could work?
[Spoilers Main] Was there any other lady suited to marry Robert besides Cersei after the rebellion?
We know that the marriage between Robert and Cersei was a disaster in the long run but also looking at it from the perspective of when it was suggested by Tywin, it was a bad look for the new king to marry the daughter of the man that sacked your capital and ordered the murder of a mother and her kids
Sure, you get the Westeland to join your faction, the Lannisters money and a beatiful (evil) wife but was it really worth it? I don't think so
So my question is, who Robert should have married after the war? Was Cersei the only possible choice in term of pros?
[SPOILERS MAIN] What are moments in the story where you feel a character's age and their actions/way of thinking mismatch the most?
A common debate I see among ASOIAF fandom is whether GRRM made his characters too young or their ages didn't progress enough through the story, considering the actions they make.
So I wonder, which are the moments in the story where you feel the character's age and their actions or way of thinking mismatch the most? Additionally, what age do you feel would make more sense for the character in that moment?
I'm happy to hear all your opinions
[no spoilers] Post industrial headcanons for Westeros
Just random thoughts on what kind of cultures would come after industrialization.
Arya ending the War (Spoilers extended)
The good ol' question was:
What if Arya had given Jaqen different names for her three free kills?
In this scenario, for example, she chooses Tywin, Joffrey and Tommen as a way to try to end the war and give Robb a better fighting chance.
With Tywin gone, Kevan would've taken over control of the Lannister hosts,
With Joffrey and Tommen gone in maybe one night, Cersei would've fallen more and more into paranoia and unwise decisions but no Tyrion trial would've taken place, most likely.
Without Tyrion facing trial he doesn't leave and remains at the Red Keep, as new possible candidate as Lord of Casterly Rock depending of Jaime's current situation in his Kingsguard role, probably shielded also by Kevan,
Cersei tries to keep Myrcella closer still and perhaps raise a claim, but without two male heirs the Crown and Small Council would've most likely decided to find and name another male one and, if underage, a regent that is not Cersei.
Who would be the new heir?
Who would be the regent?
Would the war had ended completely or the Lannisters would've kept it going until absolute defeat, or absolute victory?
Would have Varys seen the need to intervene now and kill Kevan or Cersei or even Tyrion?
And, ultimately, would have Arya made things better or worse for the Stark-Tully faction?
(Spoilers Extended) An Obscure ASOIAF YouTuber I Am A Fan Of Thought Of The Soiled Knight Chapter In A Way I Never Thought Of Before
Background
What would you say is objectively the worse chapter of the series? Not counting early chapters where GRRM's Garden was just starting to grow, many would say THE SOILED KNIGHT. Why? for a couple reasons:
- It's mostly relies on Arianne's sexiness to keep you entertained, a clear example of the male gaze in motion.
- Much of the set up occurs near the end and could easily be removed in favor of THE QUEENMAKER near the end.
- It doesn't really advance the plot forward other than explaining the seduction of Arys Oakheart and why Arianne hates her father.
- Aerys Oakheart isn't that interesting and dies immediately after. Hell, Quentyn's chapters have more of a point.
Other than it being written and read with one hand for author and fan alike, it's seemingly superflous.
Or is it?
MykeTheCreator is a YouTuber who is the definition of a hidden gem. Despite his long hiatuses, his content is my favorite among the ASOIAFTuber community. I enjoy how he pays close attention to GRRM's work, the dark and sinister atmosphere of his theories combined with analysis of the themes and symbolism of the books and their historical influences.
He released a video today that made me rethink the purpose of THE SOILED KNIGHT by highlighting power dynamics in feudal society, the connections between Arianne and Criston Cole, a critique and analysis of the Dornish plotline in A FEAST FOR CROWS and how it connects to the upcoming 2nd Dance of the Dragons.
I am not going to spoil it, but I am always willing to give talented creators a shout out so I reccomend you check him out down below.
(Spoilers Extended) Do you think The Mad King Play raises Aeagon VI stock?
I believe it’s now more possible for him to be legit.
Because Now we know, Elia Martell is a political operator: realist , pragmatic, willing to hedge her bets, and ultimately focused on the throne. because she is capable, she might actually have reached a deal with Varys in the end. leaving a secret way out for her son while sacrificing herself in King’s Landing .
Another piece of evidence is Ashara Daynethe stage play, she is Elia’s true love. Ashara doesn’t die in the play and in the books, her body was never found. So it’s genuinely possible that she survived. The theory that Septa Lemore is actually Ashara Dayne is starting to look more interesting .
That would also explain why she joined Young Griff’s group,perhaps she did it in memory of the princess she once loved.
And honestly, that makes the whole thing a little funny , because on the other side, Jon Con is still obsessively reminiscing about his Silver Prince Rhaegar Targaryen
On Parents genetics’influence
Aegon VI now have that Rhaegar’s idealism and Elia’s realism.Well I hope he can become a good leader to restore Westeros‘ order
[Spoilers EXTENDED] The woman whom I believe will cast Cersei down, and who the valonqar might be.
Alright so I saw a post yesterday saying it is Brienne, and the valonqar, the "little brother", is Jaime. It was a very good post. You can read it here. I want to point out that this isn't the first instance of someone bringing up the Brienne/Jaime theory. This has been said for years now, even Alt Shift X talked about it in his Cersei video.
I'll admit that the Brienne/Jaime interpretation is extremely appealing. Brienne is mockingly called “the Beauty,” yet is arguably far more beautiful in character than Cersei. Jaime is literally Cersei’s younger twin. And there is wonderful potential irony in Cersei hearing that a younger woman will destroy her and immediately declaring that she will have her brother kill that woman—only for Jaime ultimately to choose that woman over Cersei and even go as far as to kill her. I get it and it works.
But there is a more ironic woman in a very ironic situation whom I wholeheartedly believe is the one who will cast our nasty queen down and take all that she hold dear. And I will tell you who the little brother is too. George has physically left certain characters at the unresolved Riverlands plot, and be warned that this theory is more literal than the Brienne/Jaime interpretation, but like I said it carries a level of irony that is so in line with the style of writing we see in ASOIAF.
But first, we need to answer some questions.
Where is the Blackfish?
At the end of the siege of Riverrun, Brynden BFish escapes. We do not know where he went. But Jaime is sufficiently worried about him that when ser Forley is ordered to escort Edmure west, Jaime doubles Forley’s original force from one hundred men to two hundred specifically because he fears the Blackfish (marry me I'm gay) and a certain band of outlaws may attempt a rescue/attack.
That is obviously not an insignificant detail. Jaime creates a military precaution because he expects a strike against the westbound column escorting Edmure and the Westerlings (the mother Sybell Spicer, Robb's widow Jeyne Westerling and her sister Eleyna, and their little brother who was Robb's squire, Rollam Westerling).
Note that Jaime goes even further. He tells ser Forley that if there is an escape attempt, his archers are to kill Edmure and Jeyne.
And where is the Brotherhood Without Banners?
Still operating in the Riverlands. And not randomly. By this point the Brotherhood is under Lady Stoneheart, and its war has increasingly become a campaign of vengeance against Freys, Lannisters and collaborators with the Red Wedding. More importantly, the Brotherhood has already penetrated the Riverrun situation. Tom of Sevenstreams, the singer whom Edmure abhors (lol) is inside Riverrun.
Tom O’Sevens is not simply a convenient singer who happens to be present. He is one of Stoneheart’s men. He has spent time embedded with Ryman Frey’s forces and remains around Riverrun after its surrender. He was the one who informed the Brotherhood that Ryman was heading back to the Twins, thus they captured and hanged him en route.
So while Jaime is arranging the departure of Edmure and the Westerlings, Stoneheart’s Brotherhood has an intelligence asset inside the castle. And Jaime knows enough to fear an attack from the Blackfish (ah) or what he still thinks of as Beric Dondarrion’s outlaws. This is why myself and many readers think the beginning of The Winds of Winter is very likely to involve something happening to Forley Prester’s column. George did say years ago that Jeyne Westerling will appear in the TWOW prologue—not necessarily as the POV, but that she will appear. Plans can change, of course, but it is an extraordinary clue considering where she was last seen.
Next let's look at the road ser Forley and his entourage will be taking to reach the Westerlands from Riverrun:
Edmure’s destination is explicitly Casterly Rock. The natural westward route from Riverrun is the River Road: Riverrun > Golden Tooth > Sarsfield > Casterly Rock. The River Road connects Riverrun directly to the Westerlands through the Golden Tooth, the great eastern gateway into Lannister territory.
As for the Westerlings, they are traveling with ser Forley’s column and at some point they would presumably separate from Edmure’s Casterly Rock-bound route after passing through the Golden Tooth to reach their ancestral home, the Crag.
So this gives the Brotherhood and maybe also the Blackfish a very obvious window to rescue Edmure and the Westerlings: before the column gets safely through the Golden Tooth and deep into Lannister country. And again, Jaime himself seems to anticipate exactly such an attempt.
What happens to the convoy?
Here is my best guess, not a certainty—just the scenario I think the board is setting up for.
Forley Prester leaves Riverrun with roughly two hundred men, Edmure, and the Westerlings. They head west along the River Road toward the Golden Tooth. Before they become safely embedded in the Westerlands, they are intercepted. The obvious candidates are Lady Stoneheart’s Brotherhood and maybe the Blackfish, only because I feel like he couldn't have gone far away after escaping.
The Brotherhood knows what happened at Riverrun because Tom O’Sevens has been inside. And I'm assuming he informed Stoneheart of Jeyne's situation and her mother. We'll get to that.
So imagine the encounter if Stoneheart is involved. She would be confronted with Jeyne—the girl who genuinely loved Robb and Sybell—the mother who helped Tywin destroy him. Jeyne fought to keep Robb’s crown. Rollam served Robb personally. Sybell secretly prevented Jeyne from giving Robb an heir. If George ever wanted to put all the emotional poison of the Red Wedding into a single scene, this might be it. And Stoneheart should know the details from Tom, I believe.
Now let's talk specifically about the Westerlings.
To do this fully, we need to start with the giver of the prophecy herself, Maggy The Frog. Maggy was not some random witch Cersei happened to meet. She married a wealthy spice trader and their son was ennobled and founded House Spicer. Maggy was the grandmother of Sybell Spicer, Jayne & Rollam's mother. Meaning Maggy is Jeyne & Rollam’s great grandmother. And one more thing to note, the Lannisters always looked down on Maggy’s descendants. Kevan once rejected Jeyne as a possible match for one of his sons partly because of the Spicers’ “doubtful blood”—their descent from a merchant and his foreign maegi wife.
Tywin uses Sybell Spicer as part of the political machinery that destroys Robb. Sybell and her brother Rolph had conspired with the Lannisters to trick Robb into marrying Jeyne, thereby breaking his alliance with the Freys. Sybell provides some herbal tea to Jeyne every morning claiming it will make her fertile, which we know that Jeyne did not know the truth of, that it was a potion that prevents pregnancy. We know for a fact that Jeyne and her siblings had nothing to do with Sybell's secret negotiations with Tywin Slimy Lannister.
Jeyne really loved Robb and she was utterly devastated to know of her mother's secret plot. She goes into mourning for Robb, to the chagrin of her mother. She refuses to give up the crown that Robb had given her, and when Sybell forcefully takes it away, Jeyne fights her. And when they leave with ser Forley from Riverrun, Jaime notices that she has ripped her expensive clothing in an act of mourning for Robb and defiance against her mother. The girl refuses to accept any of this.
Now what exactly are the Spicer family getting as reward for helping the Lannisters? Sybell's daughters, Jeyne & Eleyna, are to marry lords or heirs (but Jaime does say that Jeyne must remain unmarried for two years first). And, Sybell's brother Rolph Spicer is granted Castamere.
Castamere. The single most famous monument to Lannister supremacy. Tywin annihilated the Reynes there and turned their destruction into a warning that echoed across Westeros. Now the castle belongs to Maggy’s grandson. I am not saying Rolph will heroically join Jeyne. He did help betray Robb. I am saying the symbolism is extraordinary. The family Tywin used to destroy the Young Wolf is rewarded with the ruins that symbolize Tywin’s greatest victory. And if the next generation of that same family ultimately helps destroy Tywin’s family, then “The Rains of Castamere” becomes an irony. Castamere no longer symbolizes the permanence of Lannister power. It becomes part of the road to its extinction. That feels very GRRM to me, very ASOIAF.
So I think you've guessed it already. I believe the younger and more beautiful queen who will cast Cersei down is Jeyne Westerling.
Once you look at her plainly, without assuming the answer must be one of Cersei’s major female rivals, she fits Maggy’s words almost embarrassingly well. Cersei asks whether she will be queen and Maggy tells her she will—until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, who will cast her down. The natural implication is another queen. Jeyne is a queen. Not metaphorically. Not potentially. Not through some complicated future marriage scenario. She was Robb Stark’s queen. Catelyn explicitly thinks of the “pretty little girl” before her as a queen. Robb calls Jeyne beautiful and “most fair.” And regarding Jaime's judgment on her, that she's merely pretty and “not a girl to lose a kingdom for”, I don't personally think his judgment/opinion of her override those descriptions; it gives us Jaime's subjective judgment. And we also know Cersei has begun to lose her beauty during Dance.
Narratively, Jeyne looks finished. Robb is dead and her kingdom is gone. Her mother betrayed her and she has no army. Finally she is being sent home to be rid of. Except Jaime himself tells us she is not unimportant. He orders ser Forley to kill her rather than allow her to escape, regarding Robb’s widowed queen as an extraordinary political danger. And more importantly, she has not surrendered his memory to the people who murdered him.
And the valonqar... Cersei has spent almost her entire life assuming valonqar means her little brother. First Tyrion, and many readers have understandably moved from Tyrion to Jaime. But Maggy never says “your valonqar.” She says “the valonqar.” Cersei later learns the word means little brother and supplies the possessive herself. But what if the little brother belongs to the woman Maggy has just warned her about? Jeyne Westerling has a younger brother. Rollam Westerling.
Rollam is not an entirely meaningless child attached to Jeyne’s family tree. He was Robb’s squire, and when Robb was becoming increasingly isolated during the war, the Westerling kids were among the few people around whom he found comfort: Jeyne, Raynald, and young Rollam. He therefore has his own personal connection to Robb. His king was murdered and his sister was widowed. His brother Raynald apparently died trying to free Grey Wind during the Red Wedding. Edwyn Frey and Walder Rivers reveal that Raynald surrendered his sword to ser Whalen Frey but then freed Grey Wind from his chains in the stables when several Frey men tried to kill the direwolf. While doing so, Raynald was hit by a crossbow bolt and fell into the Green Fork. Raynald's body was not identified among the thousand corpses afterward, but his trail of blood led to the river's steps.
If Jeyne is rescued and Rollam remains with her, that child has every conceivable reason to grow up despising what the Lannisters did, and from a mystery-writing perspective, Rollam’s age and obscurity are exactly what allow him to hide in plain sight. So suddenly the prophecy becomes beautifully symmetrical. It is acted on by descendants from the woman who spoke it. That is what makes this theory so much more compelling to me than simply identifying another character who technically satisfies one half of the wording. It closes the circle.
The prophecy could have been staring at Cersei through Maggy’s own bloodline. But how will all this play out??
Now let's turn to Cersei.
This is where the geography becomes, imo, extremely interesting.
At the end of Dance, Cersei is not really ruling anything. She has completed her walk of atonement and is under house arrest in the Red Keep awaiting trial. Kevan has stripped her of political authority and replaced her guards, and Kevan has a very specific plan for what happens afterward: send Cersei back to Casterly Rock and make sure she stays there.
That is important because now we know George has already planted Cersei > Casterly Rock. Even before her arrest, Kevan had told her that Tywin intended her to return west and rule as Lady of Casterly Rock rather than continue governing Tommen from King’s Landing, but then Kevan is murdered. Varys kills him because Kevan is fixing Cersei’s mistakes. He is reconciling Highgarden and Casterly Rock, stabilizing Tommen’s regime, repairing relations with the Faith. Varys explicitly wants that stability destroyed so Aegon will have an easier path to the throne.
By the end of Dance, Aegon and the Golden Company have invaded Westeros. In the released Winds Arianne material—obviously still subject to revision—Aegon has reportedly taken Storm’s End, and an army from King’s Landing believed to be Mace Tyrell’s is descending to meet him. Suppose Aegon defeats that army, then what? King’s Landing becomes extraordinarily vulnerable. All of Cersei's supporters are gone or dead, the Tyrell alliance is strained, the Faith remains powerful. If Aegon eventually takes King’s Landing, Cersei will have only one overwhelmingly obvious refuge: Casterly Rock. The strongest fortress of her house. And she is already legally Lady of Casterly Rock.
Now look at the map, Jeyne is moving to the westerlands, and Cersei, if driven out of King’s Landing, would naturally move to the westerlands. So George does not need to invent some ridiculous reason for Jeyne to travel across the continent to King’s Landing and confront Cersei. He can do something much better. Cersei can come to Jeyne. Cersei can spend Winds desperately trying to recover the power she lost... only for Aegon to drive her west... back into the very region where payback is waiting.
The younger queen does not need to personally conquer King’s Landing and sit the Iron Throne to fulfil the prophecy and cast Cersei down. “Cast you down” does not necessarily mean take Cersei’s crown in a conventional succession. Cersei could lose King’s Landing to Aegon. She could lose Tommen and her position as queen regent. She could flee home believing she still possesses the one thing no one can take from her: House Lannister. Casterly Rock. The Westerlands. Her father’s legacy. Cersei has spent her life believing she's the most fit to carry on her father's legacy. This legacy and carrying it on is the one thing that she has always wanted to do. The legacy is the very thing she holds dear.
Jeyne’s storyline will reach her. Aegon can destroy Cersei’s national power, but Jeyne can destroy what remains. There is no rule saying only one political force may contribute to the fulfillment. In fact, prophecy in ASOIAF usually becomes interesting precisely because characters misunderstand how it will happen.
Once Cersei is in Casterly Rock, Jeyne and Lady Stoneheart's Brotherhood, and maybe Blackfish, might be waiting for her. A confrontation between the two could occur.
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I still love the Brienne theory. But it is almost too satisfying. Her being mocked “the Beauty.” And Jaime is Cersei’s younger twin who is moving morally away from Cersei and toward Brienne. Cersei even responds to Maggy’s warning by saying she would have her brother kill the threatening woman. That is terrific foreshadowing if Brienne/Jaime is correct. But George may be deliberately building a storyline in which Brienne really does take Jaime away from Cersei emotionally without Brienne being Maggy’s prophesied queen, because I really do believe the "another" means another queen.
Nobody views Jeyne as a threat, in-story and outside of the story by the readers themselves. They said she could be Sansa, maybe Margaery, or definitely Dany, or ironically Brienne, even Jaime looks at Jeyne and thinks she was hardly worth losing a kingdom over. Her exacting vengeance would be so much more satisfying imo, and the irony of it all is her family being awarded Castamere, only for children of that family to turn around and wipe out the house that eliminated the previous owners of Castamere.
I personally think Brienne will kill Jaime under his own request. Tyrion was never looked at as a Lannister by his own family, so the only Lannister remaining will be Cersei. Once she's eliminated, it's like even the Reynes themselves took revenge.