u/starborn-heir

I love canon receipts and drawing parallels!

I posted this on Tumblr and got an anon shortly after saying that it doesn't matter what Lucien is thinking or how he's feeling because Elain "doesn't want him around". I think of how being in Feyre's head was what allowed us to see that what she felt for Rhys starting in ACOMAF wasn't as simple as it may have looked from the outside. I can see the argument if you choose to take Elain's outward actions at face value, but it's pretty common for SJM to write chatacters that act one way, while feeling another. That's why, for me, I'd need to be let into her head and see how she truly feels before you could convince me of anything!

If Feyre can forgive Rhys after hating him and go on to love and accept him, I'm not sure why it's so baffling to think that Elain, who is currently uncomfortable around Lucien for whatever reasons we don't have without her POV, could come to love and accept Lucien.

Especially when many of SJM's couples start out with dislike or even outright hatred: Nessian, (TOG Spoilers) >!Rowaelin, Chaolrene!<, (CC Spoilers) >!Quinlar, and Ruhnlidia.!<

Also, please don't use the comments to debate the ships I used as comparisons, there's a whole sub for that 😅

Disclaimer: This was originally going to be much longer/more in depth, but I do not have the patience to make a 30+ page slideshow, nor do I think anybody has the patience for it lol But I am happy to provide any details/elaboration anyone wants!

Basically, my theory is that the Asteri/Daglan and Valg homeworlds are the same place. And that place is now Hel.

What I'm seeing from the quotes I've gathered, it looks like the Asteri and Valg once shared the same world, or may perhaps be the same species (which is another theory I am trying to see if it has legs). Their population got out of hand and wars broke out. This led some Asteri, called Wayfarers and World-Walkers, to seek out other worlds that may be able to sustain them. They did this "using the very language of existence" or Wyrdmarks. Some never returned. The ones we know as Asteri ended up on Midgard and the Daglan ended up in Prythian.

But at some point, long before Orcus, Mantyx, and Erawan were born (at least 5000 years before the start of Throne of Glass), World-Walking was outlawed. 3000 years before TOG, the three Valg Kings waged wars to gain control of their world. During this time, Maeve rediscovered the old ways of World-Walking via Wyrdmarks and used them to get to Erilea. The three Valg Kings pursued her, fought a war, and Maeve managed to banish two of them back to their homeworld, leaving Erawan in Erilea.

Then, in Crescent City, we see Hel, and we meet the Princes of Hel. We also meet various kinds of demons from Hel, many of them described similarly to Valg (who are also often called demons), including having black blood. The biggest question with this part would be: Why do we now have seven Princes instead of three Kings? Full disclosure, I do not have a concrete answer for this, but I am wondering if Orcus and Mantyx ever actually made it back to their world. If not, perhaps the Princes took their places.

And why am I posting this in an ACOTAR sub?

1. We have the Illyrians, crafted by the Daglan "from night and pain", while the Valg Kings were referred to as "masters of shadow and pain". The Illyrians are unusally similar to the Ilken, created by Erawan. Tall, humanoid creatures with large, leathery wings.
2. There are several black-blooded and Valg-coded creatures in Prythian, including: The Weaver, the Suriel, and Lanthys.
3. If the Weaver (Stryga) is a Valg (I am thinking she is one of the rare Valg princesses, that would also make the Bone Carver, her twin, one as well.
4. And the third sibling of the trio? KOSCHEI. Our Big Bad Evil Guy.

What does it have to do with Elucien?

1. The Koschei plot is THE Elucien plot.
2. If Koschei is a Valg, what do Valg fear? Fire and light!
3. While this theory isn't the most well-supported, I love the idea that Elain could be a healer/Death-Maiden like Yrene and be the one to wipe Koschei from existence
4. If you're into these sorts of theories, Valg possession lines up with some theories people have about Elain potentially being possesse. My current bet is on Stryga 👀 (Just in advance of people who like to take things in the most offensive way possible, no, this is not me calling Elain evil.)

There are a lot of things that could be affected moving forward if these are true!

I'd love to hear any thoughts/questions/other theories!

Disclaimer: This was originally going to be much longer/more in depth, but I do not have the patience to make a 30+ page slideshow, nor do I think anybody has the patience for it lol But I am happy to provide any details/elaboration anyone wants!

Basically, my theory is that the Asteri/Daglan and Valg homeworlds are the same place. And that place is now Hel.

What I'm seeing from the quotes I've gathered, it looks like the Asteri and Valg once shared the same world, or may perhaps be the same species (which is another theory I am trying to see if it has legs). Their population got out of hand and wars broke out. This led some Asteri, called Wayfarers and World-Walkers, to seek out other worlds that may be able to sustain them. They did this "using the very language of existence" or Wyrdmarks. Some never returned. The ones we know as Asteri ended up on Midgard and the Daglan ended up in Prythian.

But at some point, long before Orcus, Mantyx, and Erawan were born (at least 5000 years before the start of Throne of Glass), World-Walking was outlawed. 3000 years before TOG, the three Valg Kings waged wars to gain control of their world. During this time, Maeve rediscovered the old ways of World-Walking via Wyrdmarks and used them to get to Erilea. The three Valg Kings pursued her, fought a war, and Maeve managed to banish two of them back to their homeworld, leaving Erawan in Erilea.

Then, in Crescent City, we see Hel, and we meet the Princes of Hel. We also meet various kinds of demons from Hel, many of them described similarly to Valg (who are also often called demons), including having black blood. The biggest question with this part would be: Why do we now have seven Princes instead of three Kings? Full disclosure, I do not have a concrete answer for this, but I am wondering if Orcus and Mantyx ever actually made it back to their world. If not, perhaps the Princes took their places.

And why am I posting this in the ACOTAR sub?

1. We have the Illyrians, crafted by the Daglan "from night and pain", while the Valg Kings were referred to as "masters of shadow and pain". The Illyrians are unusally similar to the Ilken, created by Erawan. Tall, humanoid creatures with large, leathery wings.
2. There are several black-blooded and Valg-coded creatures in Prythian, including: The Weaver, the Suriel, and Lanthys.
3. If the Weaver (Stryga) is a Valg (I am thinking she is one of the rare Valg princesses, that would also make the Bone Carver, her twin, one as well.
4. And the third sibling of the trio? KOSCHEI. Our Big Bad Evil Guy.

There are a lot of things that could be affected moving forward if these are true!

I'd love to hear any thoughts/questions/other theories!

From the blurb for Forgotten Melody (source):

Prythian might never be the same again. Traditional alliances are crumbling, and no amount of diplomacy seems sufficient to repair them.

I've been considering what traditional alliances could be crumbling:

-With all due respect and love to the IC, they've kinda been operating on Prythian's behalf without much, if any input from the other courts, which is especially problematic after the War, considering they were all allies in that regard.

-The Night Court now has sole possession of the Dread Trove, as well as the Made weapons from Nesta.

-Consider that THE ILLYRIANS and Hewn City are alliances as well, even though they are in NC territory. And both alliances have been shown to be in a shit state. One or both rebelling would completely hamstring the Night Court's military capabilities at the WORST possible time.

-Feyre and Rhys are keeping the Lucien's parentage a secret from their closest ally, Helion.

-Beron?? Because officially, he's still an ally (to Prythian in general, if not the NC directly), but he will likely go all-in on joining Koschei after Briallyn's death.

-Beron could ALSO find out about the NC's alliance with Eris before they can take him out which would cause obvious issues. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why he goes to Koschei.

-Spring??????????? Again, like Beron, Tamlin is still an ally of Prythian, even if he's not a friend to the NC. And in ACOSF, it's specifically pointed out that Spring needs to have it together for the battles ahead.

-We don't have any information on how Mor's mission in Vallahan fared. Could it have gone poorly when their alliance is vital for the Treaty?

Next two are spoilers for Crescent City

>!-As far as we know, the Night Court are the only ones with knowledge of Bryce and those ramifications. The existence of other worlds and the threats they may pose? Not information any court would be happy to be kept in the dark about.!<

>!-Given that we don't know what Dusk looks like after Bryce's visit, it's entirely possible that the Night Court just gained INCREDIBLE assets/power that would upset the political balance of Prythian (which is already perilous)!<

As a lover of political intrigue, I am frothing at the mouth!! So much potential for meaningful, wide-reaching conflicts that go beyond romantic relationship drama (like the HL meeting fiasco lol).

On slide 5, I blacked out a question that has a spoiler for the full Maasverse! (Reminder: you might want to read up just in case! 😅) Here is that question:

>!4. How will Bryce's visit to Prythian influence ACOTAR 6?!<

What do we think?

I'm thinking this means we may not get too much information before the Autumn Equinox (September 22). But I'm excited because I've been dying to get to the Autumn Court. I'm a sucker for political intrigue, so I'm hoping this is a hint in that direction 🍁

It would be awesome to answer some of the questions here in this thread, but please be sure to mark spoilers for anything more than ACOSF appropriately and remember to be kind if disagreement emerges 💕

76 days!!!

Edit: Sorry guys! I should have included a link! Thank you to the kind souls who have been sharing it in the comments, I'm having trouble keeping up 🏃‍♀️💨

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/discover/sarah-j-maas/activities/

First, I'll say that yes, there does come a point where it gets a little too deep to be "reasonable", insofar as any of this has to be reasonable because it's all fiction and we're meant to have fun.

But given who SJM has repeatedly proclaimed herself to be as a writer, I don't think it's crazy to look deeper than surface level or to not take things at face value.

As someone relatively new to the fandom, the CHD podcast was the first of SJM's interviews that I watched in its entirety. And when she said something to the effect of "Who comes up with these things?", it did feel a bit disheartening to hear her be dismissive of people putting in time to think about what she writes.

But I have watched and read several interviews of hers since. And I cannot help but see CHD as a deviation from what she had consistently claimed in the past. She is an author who thinks ahead, who likes to breadcrumb future plotlines books before they happen.

A quote from an interview in 2019 before HOEAB released (I'm paraphrasing for brevity, but here is the link to the full interview):

"[...] it’s really fun to put on my headphones and daydream about what I want to happen next, and then see how I can be really sneaky in book one and put all those details in so that when something huge happens, readers can be surprised. I love writing those moments, my “mic drop” moments, and I love hearing from readers when they say “yeah, I was hoping that would happen” or “I didn’t see that coming but now I totally see that you were planting the seeds for that”. [...] I loved that kind of stuff as a reader, so as a writer I try to plan things out well enough to sprinkle in those elements."

From a 2021 interview post-SF (link):

"Because I knew so early on while I was finishing mist and fury and then working on ACOWAR, I knew this is where I wanted things to go, it allowed me to plant things for her journey and even Elains journey early on. To set that journey up. [...] So there was alot of planning involved, I always try and keep one eye on the horizon. Just to make sure that like you know in the books that I'm working on I can set up for things later on. So there's actually lots of little secrets in silver flames, that' set up for---" (The interviewer cut her off here, so it's hard to decipher what she said 😒)

And the last example I'll share is a familiar one, I'm sure. When talking to Steph about Azriel's bonus chapter (link), SJM says that she wanted to hear all of Steph's theories after she reads it because "the crumbs have all been, like, scattered... Little breadcrumbs everywhere."

So... I don't think it's crazy to look more deeply into what happens in the books. I think that's the intention. I know a lot of us came into the fandom already knowing that Feyre and Rhys would end up together. But if you didn't, you may have missed the breadcrumbs SJM put all throughout book one that hinted at it. Often, these are things that you only catch on a reread.

Like the Calanmai scene where Feyre seems to feel like the drums are tugging her to the festivities. Once you read ACOMAF, it's actually Rhys/the bond. That's what she means in the first interview I mentioned when, after the plot is revealed, you can go back and see "oh, I totally see now that you were planting seeds for that all along!"

This is different from the things that are "in your face" or to be taken at face value. It's completely up to you how shallow you prefer to keep your interpretation, but people who prefer to look deeper are just trying to pick up what SJM might be sneakily putting down.

I decided to go ahead and include spoilers mostly because they're needed to understand the level of connection between the three series. However, I didn't include anything that is not likely to be revealed by the next ACOTAR books anyway (in my opinion).

Obviously, read what you want! I'm only making the case that the overlap of the series has almost always been the intention.

🌷👁Happy Elucien Week!!☀️🦊

All of my fics and art are running behind (typical), but I have been saving something for a while.

I was doing a deep dive, paying extra close attention to Elain's state and actions during ACOWAR, and I noticed something about the scene where Elain and Lucien have their first conversation after Hybern.

In honor of "Heartbeat" Day, here's my theory about the scene when Elain tells Lucien she can hear his heartbeat through the stone:

When Feyre and Lucien arrive back in Velaris, they go to the House of Wind, where Nesta says this about Elain's current state:

“She will not leave her room. She will not stop crying. She will not eat, or sleep, or drink.”

(Also of note, within days of Lucien's arrival, Elain is doing all three)

Feyre goes to speak with Elain, who is obviously distraught, and determines it's too soon for her to see Lucien. Lucien overhears the conversation and is visibly devastated. But he agrees to stay away from Elain.

That night, Elain still remains in her room during dinner.

But the next afternoon, when Feyre returns from the Prison, Elain is suddenly out of her room, standing in the family library. Elain talks about all of the things she can hear, including her sisters' heartbeats if she listens carefully.

Feyre pulls Nesta aside. Nesta says Elain came out of her room of her own volition and she found her there, at the library window. They try to figure out a trigger for the behavior.

And who should walk in but Lucien? Lucien who has dutifully stayed away from Elain as Feyre asked. Feyre and Nesta remain hidden and shielded while he asks if she needs anything. Feyre slips into his mind.

Lucien thinks: He just wanted a walk—and a few books. It had been an age since he’d even had free time to read, let alone do so for pleasure. But there she was. His mate.

So, we know Lucien wasn't seeking out Elain. They go on to talk, Lucien actually introduces himself, they talk about Hybern briefly, we get some of Lucien's thoughts on Elain (the most beautiful female he'd ever seen) and the bond. He sees something spark in her eyes as their gazes meet. She says she can hear his heartbeat through the stone, which is different from being able to hear her sisters' if she listens carefully.

Then Elain eventually withdraws into herself again.

Elain, who hasn't left her room in months, suddenly does so of her own volition. And she goes to the library, where her mate just so happens to be heading for a book. And they talk for the first time. He was surprised to see her, but she didn't seem to surprised to see him.

I don't think there's romantic intention on Elain's part at all. She is still very much in love with Graysen at this point. But I do think she may have had a vision of Lucien going to the library. And I do think she wanted to meet him.

Not only is this interesting in and of itself, but it's like a deliberate subversion of what Feyre's decision that Elain was not ready to meet him yet. Elain decided she was ready and she makes a choice to meet her mate, who'd respectfully kept his distance for her wellbeing.

I think it's a perfect illustration of the dynamic I see for them going forward: Lucien waits. Elain chooses.

🎨 By me: a silhouette of how I imagined Elain standing at the library window, looking out into the afternoon sky.

Like... why would I not want to be in Elain's and Lucien's heads when things actually start to develop??

This gorgeous art by inkfaeart on IG has me brainstorming!

In the caption for Elain's post, they did mention the idea of Elain as a Druid, but ultimately chose School of Divination Wizard as they were saving Druid for another character.

Divination wizards are so fun to play. If I had free choice, I'd lean towards Elain as a Circle of Stars Druid. It leans into her affinity for nature as well as the divination themes of the subclass!

Lucien as a Monk is a solid choice given the dexterity and sneak potential! Way of the Four Elements was mentioned, but I think I'd go for Way of the Sun Soul. Choosing purely based off of vibes, because the actual subclass is kinda mid to play lmao but it captures his Day connection as well as his fire abilities.

What do you guys think?

“It felt … strange,” Elain breathed. “Like you pulled on a thread tied to a rib.”

“There’s a bond—it’s a real thread,” he said, more to himself than us.

SJM is a fan of Jane Eyre, having read it at least five times (link).

This imagery of being tied together at the rib is an almost direct mirror to this scene between Jane and Mr. Rochester:

"I have a strange feeling with regard to you. As if I had a string somewhere under my left ribs, tightly knotted to a similar string in you. And if you were to leave I'm afraid that cord of communion would snap. And I have a notion that I'd take to bleeding inwardly."

They're so classical literature 🌷🦊

And it reminds me of this Feysand quote from the end of ACOTAR:

I was pulled from sleep by something tugging at my middle, a thread deep inside.

🎨 By me!

This scene is the evening before Lucien leaves to go track down Vassa. And it seems like, as a gesture of appreciation for Lucien's sacrifice, he is left alone with Elain for the first time.

Do we think they ended up talking at all?

If so, what do we think might have been said?

I'm inclined to believe some kind of conversation happened. Elain is more lucid in the preceding scene than she has been up until this point. And then the morning after this, we have the infamous gazes locking and holding, Elain's half-step towards Lucien, and Lucien's "longing and sadness".

It just feels... Different than their interactions before this.