u/thewickerstan

I've been meaning to articulate this into a post, but it's fascinated me how similar and different Little Carmine and Tony Soprano are. I feel like David Chase was presenting them as foils of each other.

It's been a second since I've watched the series - I'm really due for my first rewatch - so there might be a few minor errors on my end. But what springs to mind for me...

Both are the respective "hair apparent" (to quote wise sage Moltisanti) to semi-legendary gangsters. Tony's Dad makes no bones of involving Tony in their thing once he's of age, something that he clearly grapples with (to put it mildly). But didn't Carmine Senior do the exact opposite with his son? I can't remember if he was the catalyst for setting him up in Florida, but it seems like he certainly wanted him out of harm's way from where the heart of the action was. The difference here alone I think speaks volumes to their respective trajectories. The two of them both have an appreciation for the finer things beyond this thing of ours as well. People in this sub tend to recognize how Tony's a little more sophisticated (relatively speaking) to the rest of his crew. Consider his fascination with history, particularly World War II, or his appreciation for old Hollywood movies. His desire to visit Italy also comes to mind too (although maybe this is just an Italian American thing lol). But I think people miss this with Little Carmine too. People tend to zero in on his mispronunciation of Versailles and dismiss him as an idiot without recognizing the fact that he's nonetheless aware of it, its historical context, and was fascinated enough to visit it. It clearly is also a hobby of his in his spare time. Put simply, they're both multilayered individuals, but the interesting thing to me is that Carmine seems to be a glass-half-full type of guy, the happy wanderer that Tony lambasts, who finds happiness not in gluttony and excess (wet t-shirt contests notwithstanding), but in simple things that make him happy. His joy with everything surrounding Cleaver, from the brainstorm sessions to the eventual premiere, are a perfect example of this. Tony meanwhile, Mr. glass-half-empty, likely yearns for a similar path but can't let go of his ways ("Yeah, every day's a gift...but does it have to be socks?")

The two of them with similar backgrounds but two completely different personality types almost feels like a single road splitting into two paths. Consider Tony's lack of sympathy for Chris's sobriety vs. Carmine's self-awareness of it when they travel together. Or Carmine's wife's disinterest in being the wealthiest widow on Long Island vs. Carmella's constant niggling of making sure those bases are covered when she's gone. Or Carmine's ultimate disinterest in taking the throne vs. Tony's own rollercoaster ride of being number one. One of my favorite subtle examples of this is when Tony says "I'm serious I can't take it" at Chrissy's funeral, in the sense that he's disgusted at Chrissy's mother's grief, but Carmine, interpreting it as Tony getting emotional, comforts him without skipping a beat. It's a throwaway gag, but it speaks so much to each of their characters.

I'll end this spiel with one of my favorite moments from the whole show: their conversation on the Golf course. "You never thought you'd utter those words, did you?" The "Carmine was playing 4D chess by playing dumb" theory is quite naive, but I think there's some truth in the sense that people underrate his intelligence, not just from an intellectual standpoint, but an existential one. He'd sussed out something that Tony couldn't crack with years upon years of therapy.

"Loose interpretation" might be generous, but I don't think it's ridiculous to say that Wim Wenders was playing with some archetypes and tropes that were shaped by Homer. Enough people seem to have made a connection between the two that I don't feel crazy.

Whether it's the male loneliness epidemic, the concerns surrounding the manosphere, or the desire for positive role models, I've found myself thinking a lot about contemporary masculinity these days. As someone very passionate about music, I've thought a lot about it from that standpoint as well. But today I was thinking about positive masculinity and its reflection within music. It was quite an enlightening experience as it made me realize how it feels like an anomaly of sorts. It doesn't seem to be in a lot of top 40 pop hits for example compared to, say, love songs. Nonetheless, they do exist and paint quite the interesting picture.

The catalyst of sorts for me was remembering The Rolling Stones demo “I’d Much Rather Be with the Boys”, a Richards/Oldham composition (an already eclectic combo) that was allegedly axed by the rest of the band for being too homoerotic. I can see that angle, but I nonetheless find something wholesome about its "bros before hoes" mantra. A lot of Stones originals that followed were similar complaints of women who'd done the narrator wrong, but finding strength and peace with one's friends is a different direction, one that I'm sure many boys and men can relate to.

Here I am
With the gang, I don't care where you are
Because I'd much rather be with the boys
Than be with you

To get the inevitable out of the way, yes, “The Boys are Back in Town” is probably the gold standard for this. You could argue semantics about elements of hooliganism that could be considered toxic ("The drink will flow and the blood will spill"), but there's a pure joy to the camaraderie that's inexplicably infectious. Phil Lynott at some point considered calling it "GI Joe is Back in Town", picturing the returning hero to be a soldier returning from the Vietnam War. It makes the desire for a night on the town with your pals all the more alluring. Though anachronistic to this interpretation, I always found that this passage...

The nights are gettin' warmer, it won't be long
Won't be long 'til summer comes
Now that the boys are here again

*...*absolutely nails the excitement of summer vacation nearing the corner, more time to spend with your grade school mates. Cool stuff. But Lynott was no one-trick pony. He himself is an interesting yin-yang when it comes to masculinity, the leather-bound tough guy champing at the bit for a fight juxtaposed against a guy who'd write mellow odes to his baby girl. He was an illustration that both of these sides can coexist. But particularly as a black man myself, I always loved that Phil went out of his way to explore black masculinity as well, whether it's upping the brothers in Thin Lizzy's ethereal "Fight or Fall", or penning the wonderfully anthemic "Ode to a Black Man".

As I said earlier, I've been fascinated by how music can be helpful for young men, whether it's providing a sense of community or just blowing off some steam. And The Replacements succinctly write about this in their song “Something to Dü”. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul Westerberg had himself and the rest of the others in mind when he wrote it.

Delivering noise
Real tough boys
What else have I got?

Half-priced drugs
Stolen guitars
What else is new

Oasis's “D’yer Wanna Be a Spaceman?” continues one of Noel Gallagher's favorite leitmotifs: the end of innocence and the tension between dreams and reality. This time around though, he examines this from the standpoint of old friends, reminiscing over what was then and what is now...

I haven’t seen your face ’round since I was a kid
You’re bringing back those memories of the things that we did
You’re hanging round and climbing trees pretending to fly
Do you wanna be a spaceman and live in the sky

It's worth noting too that Noel's favorite line in "Live Forever" is "we see things they'll never see" which to him evoked a secret shared between one and their childhood friend. I find that quite lovely. Oasis themselves remind me of other bands like The Who and The Beach Boys who had a notable male contingent in their audience and thus had plenty of material that addressed them.

There's an unofficial tradition of "riding around with the boys killing time" anthems. “Me and the Boys” by NRBQ, "I Get Around" by The Beach Boys, "Back of a Car" and "In the Street" by Big Star all come to mind here. In terms of big-upping the homies, there's "With a Little Help from My Friends" by The Beatles and "Me and My Friends" by The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Songs about men also being in awe of men are their own kettle of fish: "David Watts" and "Johnny Thunder" by The Kinks are two fun examples, particularly as both figures are both on opposite ends of the spectrum, but each of their tributes are just as genuine.

I hinted at this earlier, but the analysis and deconstruction of masculinity color a lot of The Who's discography, but I think a fitting example here would be their song "Tattoo", about two brothers trying to figure out where they fit in ("What makes a man a man?") and deciding to get tattoos as a means of seeing where that leads them. I find the dynamic between the brothers quite lovely and there's many other little details that make it fully dimensional, like "Our old man didn't like our appearance, he said that only women wear long hair", illustrating the generation gap between boomers and their parents, the latter utterly baffled by the former's flirtations with androgyny, thus circling back to that initial question: what makes a man a man?

I'm curious to hear any other artists or works that others pick up on! As usual, thanks in advance.

I've always had a fascination with bands that briefly have a completely different person fill in for a specific stretch of time. I think the catalyst was reading about how between sacking Pete Best and hiring Ringo, The Beatles used a Johnny Hutch from a local band The Big Three as a fill-in for a few gigs. He was a big basher, and several people said the sound was fascinatingly very heavy during that tenure. It fascinated me about the way that could potentially impact a band.

- Fab Moretti of The Strokes punched a mailbox lol, so there was a stretch where The Strokes did a tour of England with one Matt Romano as a drummer. There's a bunch of footage of this. The biggest thing to my ears is energy. The pace is a bit quicker, which seems to excite the band. See this version of "New York City Cops" and you'll see what I mean. (Subsequently, it's one of my favorite renditions of it.)

- Noel Gallagher's quite Oasis on a few occasions, their Standing on the Shoulder of Giants tour in 2000 was the first time they brought in a replacement: Matt Deighton was tapped in as another guitarist. Quite a bit of footage of this stretch exists too. Interestingly enough though, rhythm guitarist Gem Archer stepped up as lead guitarist and he knocked it out of the park. Exhibit A: this phenomenal rendition of "Supersonic". On the subject of Oasis too, there's been a few moments where Liam was unavailable and Noel had to handle vocals himself. Their MTV Unplugged appearance is the most famous example, but you've also got great moments like their performance at The Point in Dublin in 1997 where Noel brings out rarities like "The Girl in the Dirty Shirt" (I believe that's the only time that one was ever played!)

- People who know Glen Campbell as a country superstar are always surprised that he was a member of the Wrecking Crew, which subsequently lead to him filling in as a Beach Boy when Brian was having a mental crisis. We unfortunately have no footage of this, but it did give us "Guess I'm Dumb" a Brian-penned song he gave to him as a thank you of sorts did beautifully. It's very Beach Boys Today! coded and funnily enough also illustrates the sound the band would eventually pursue on Pet Sounds. A looser but nonetheless fascinating take on the prompt if you will.

- The connection between Nirvana and The Melvins is pretty well established. I think most know that Dale plays on quite a bit of Bleach (I think because they thought Chad didn't hit as hard as him, so they kept the tracks that were initially recorded as a demo). Fittingly after Chad left, Dale stepped in again, and he sounds fabulous. One of my favorite Nirvana bootlegs has him playing. What an era to enter too: it's got the ramshackle nature of Bleach but with the Nevermind element starting to creep in. He fits the Johnny Hutch thing of bringing a heaviness too, though Dave was obviously quite the basher (to the degree that Kurt called him a "Baby Dale Crover" early on, which says a lot). Dale did backing vocals too, though I think Dave had him beat in that stretch. Even shorter than his tenure was Dan Peters from Mudhoney. He played on "Sliver" and was manning the kit during the band's big turning point show at the Motor Sports Garage (the linked footage of this didn't exist when I got into the band around 2012, so it's miraculous that it bubbled to the surface!) Dave was the perfect choice, but I do quite like Dan's playing here, particularly his snare and tom tom rolls. It almost reminds me of jazz drumming, but bringing that element to a punk context. It's always a delight to here him do his thing on those Mudhoney records.

- After sacking Lou Barlow, Dinosaur Jr. relied on Donna Dresch for a tour of Australia. I haven't sat down and noticed the difference in her playing and Lou's, but it's something I'd like to study when I get a spare moment. Here's a full concert for those who are curious.

- Lastly, there's Arik Marshall with the Chili Peppers after John Frusciante left, but Dave Navarro's tenure, while on the longer end, qualifies and is much more fascinating to look at. As a "rock with a capital 'R'" type of guy, he brought a heaviness and psychedelic edge on guitar that I actually quite liked, even if it wasn't really the Peppers wheelhouse per se. I see it as an experiment that maybe wasn't successful, but quite fascinating. It answers the question of "What would the Peppers sound like if they were more akin to Jane's Addiction than Fishbone?" You can hear this too on the eventual album he played on One Hot Minute. There's a darkness on the album too which he seemed to bring to the table, though Anthony Kiedis was battling his own demons at that point in time as well. The final product though is a fascinating anomaly that sits nicely in one's discography, a black sheep of sorts, but (to my ears) quite the pleasant one.

Shared this on another sub, but I figured that some might appreciate the food for thought.

I've been thinking a lot about masculinity as of late. I was with my cousin last month and she asked me "How did you end up being as well adjusted as you did?", which triggered some self-reflection on my end (not that this is the norm mind you!) I started really thinking more about contemporary masculinity as a whole: the dangers of the manosphere, "positive" vs. "toxic" masculinity, and the male loneliness epidemic. I was picking the brain of one of my friends, and it was only talking to him that I realized that I think music (and the arts in general) partially was what saved me from the patriarchy.

I've always been incredibly sensitive, and I definitely have many memories of people telling me to "toughen up" or "man up" (thus, per a study I read a while back, why many highly sensitive people have low self-esteem issues). Looking back, it's so obvious that their accusations were largely grounded in patriarchy, particularly the toxic notion of men not showing their emotions. I wouldn't have been able to sum it up as such, but I think I saw it as a cross of sorts to bear.

Music slowly but surely became my obsession, though. And when you're 13/14 and learn about the vulnerability of Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, Pete Townshend, Ray Davies, Dylan, and even Noel Gallagher, it's not just a revelation, but a reaffirmation. You could probably even squeeze the Beatles (my favorite band) somewhere in there, particularly Lennon ("I'm a loser, and I'm not what I appear to be"). Whether it's feelings of inadequacy, unrequited love, not fitting in, inarticulacy, loneliness, exuberance, it's all there and it's all valid. "Oh, feeling these things isn't just a normal thing, but in some ways a strength." You can extend that to the arts in general ("Heroes" as diverse as Van Gogh and Brando come to mind too), but I think music is more from the jugular, so it hits harder. In any case though, there was the two birds/one stone of heeding very early on not to run from one's feelings and having role models and heroes who were not only in touch with their emotions, but were the people that they were because of their feelings. And this is all before mentioning the obvious: the way that art is the perfect tool for self-expression and self-comprehension, and blowing off steam. A lot of these guys had an iconoclast streak within them, something that I think is necessary when fitting the straight-jacket of "proper" masculinity that serves the patriarchy.

I think why this also came to mind again was thinking about Buddy Holly, a musician I was aware of, but only did a deep dive on recently. When I was reading up on him, there was a talking point that came up over and over again: the generation of boys who grew up with his music, particularly in England, were obsessed with him. And I think part of the appeal was his role as a paragon of what we'd now call "positive masculinity". You've got a generation growing up with Humphrey Bogart's, John Wayne's, and Robert Mitchum's, but here comes this guy with glasses who's writing these heart-on-your-sleeve songs, but juxtaposed with this energetic rock n roll and unabashed hipness. He was an illustration of a vulnerability that was within masculinity. It reminds me of what Jameela Jamil said in one podcast (which I'll link here, lots of food for thought) where she was bemoaning the way that "toxic masculinity" has lead people to think of men as beings devoid of empathy, that there's a beauty within boys and men that's decimated by the patriarchy. Buddy's music and overall aesthetic is a perfect illustration of that beauty: the sensitivity, introspection, romantic streak that's innate in men when they let themselves be in touch with their emotions.

I'm still figuring things out myself, but I think music and the arts in general have also been key to keeping me from falling into the whole male loneliness epidemic thing, too. I've met so many cool people through playing music for example, people who are also passionate about these things. I've been going to a record club where a guy spins records based on books in the 33 1/3 book series and I've met a lot of great people there as well. Jordan Stephens, another guy who gives me hope for boys, made a great point on a different podcast about how the male loneliness epidemic is partially tied to the removal of third spaces (funny how patriarchy and capitalism, two things trying to pit us all against each other, kind of go hand in hand). I think again about the book I was reading on The Cavern Club, a famous venue in Liverpool where many bands played and where The Beatles essentially built their fanbase. There were lots of great stories of boys going there and discovering this whole new world of bands, first jazz then beat music and RnB (The Beatles, Gerry and the Pacemakers, The Big Three etc.), but it only struck me now that, aside from the great music they were seeing, they were finding community as well, something that they might've taken for granted and something that's still possible, but much harder to do.

Anyway, that's my food for thought! I'd love to hear if anybody here relates to any of this.