r/AncientGreek

Is "kh" pronounced as "k" or "h" in ancient Greek?

I was looking around but i always get a different answer so i came here.

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u/1ts_Grey — 17 hours ago

Hesiod's ἠόα form

In 574 from Hesiod's Work and Days it says:

φεύγειν δὲ σκιεροὺς θώκους καὶ ἐπ᾽ ἠόα κοῖτον

translation: Avoid shady seats and sleeping until dawn

is ἠόα an irregular accusative of ΗΩΣ ?

the accusative I found is ἠῶ or ἠοῦν, what is happening here?

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u/Wakinta — 19 hours ago
▲ 15 r/AncientGreek+1 crossposts

Software to color or tag cases?

I did this in Google docs and I was wondering if there is any software that does this more fluidly? Even if it's manual and not automatic.

u/SpeekTruth — 1 day ago

How do we know about aspiration?

Being the rough aspiration roughly [no pun] consonantal, and the Greek writing system highly phonemic, why didn't the Greeks invent a letter for it?

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u/Weekly_Shine736 — 2 days ago

Tips for learning ancient Greek

Ive never learned a language before, and I have no clue where to begin. I know that I specifically want to learn the dialect called Attic, so I can read philosophical texts.

Im in college so I am very busy the majority of the time. Can I spend 10-30 mins a day and be successful in learning? Moreover, some resources on how to learn ancient greek would be amazing. As of now, I do know how to identify some letters and spell some words, and letters. This is just from my studies of Aristotle.

I would love to hear approaches to learning ancient greek that have worked for others. Thanks!

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u/UpsetBranch272627 — 1 day ago

Help with the use of imperfect by Plotinus

Why does plotinus use imperfect εἰμί here? I tried to find info about imperfect in subordinate clauses but it seems like its not even used there? And its main uses dont seem suitable to me τῇ δὲ αἰσθήσει παραδεξαμένου τοῦ αἰσθητικοῦ ἀνθρώπου καὶ συναρ- μόσαντος εἰς ἔσχατον πρὸς τὴν ἐκεῖ ἁρμονίαν, καὶ πυρὸς ἐναρμόσαντος πρὸς τὸ ἐκεῖ πῦρ, οὗ αἴσθησις ἦν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ψυχῇ ἀνάλογον (τῇ) τοῦ πυρὸς τοῦ ἐκεῖ φύσει. From ennead 6.7 chapter 6. I tried to look up all the possible uses in CGCG but could not find anything that made sense to me. In English Gerson simply renders it as present "belongs"

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u/PlotinusEnjoyer556 — 1 day ago

Greek polytonic keyboard (Windows)

​

Hi!

I'm searching for a Greek polytonic virtual keyboard: I have to collate several pages of manuscripts and I need a tool not too difficult to use.

Thank you in advance.

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u/frontistes — 2 days ago

Learning Classical from Koine

Hello! I'm moderately proficient in Koine (almost all of my exposure is NT/Septuagint), but would really like to become very proficient in Homeric/Classical. This summer, I find myself with a lot of free time and (I think) a good deal of willpower, to the point where I can dedicate two-three hours of study a day to Greek, if not a bit more.

My biggest goal here is to someday really be able to read Classical without constantly stopping to parse words, to be at a place where I can read at a decent speed.

With that in mind, how would you all recommend that I go about learning Classical?

EDIT: Specifically, what texts are good/bad to start with? Is just jumping in and reading a good strategy?

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u/TheChestertonian — 2 days ago

Can anyone give me insight on what this letter is?

So I was in Amasra the other day and I found a Museum with Greek writing, I then found this letter what letter is this? It's like a Upsilon with a Line on it (the actual inscription in the next slide)

u/Dependent_Hurry_3220 — 3 days ago

πολλὸς ... τις in Iliad 7.156

In this passage, Nestor recalls his duel against Ereuthalion, a very large man. Here's how Nestor describes the ending:

τὸν δὴ μήκιστον καὶ κάρτιστον κτάνον ἄνδρα·

πολλὸς γάρ τις ἔκειτο παρήορος ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα.

As I understand the second line, πολλὸς τις is the subject phrase, ἔκειτο is the verb, and παρήορος is a predicate nominative. I found the πολλὸς τις interesting.

Cunliffe covers this in a rather free way:

  • Some sort or kind of, some : μνημοσύνη τις γενέσθω Il. 8.181. Cf. Il. 8.521, Il. 23.103.
  • With an adj., etc., giving a notion of indefiniteness : πολλός τις (like some monster)

The most direct translation appears to me to be something like "some big guy." Is that correct semantically?

Rhetorically, I'm wondering if this is a kind of euphemistic circumlocution? Perhaps this is a gentler or more respectful way for Nestor to speak of the deceased?

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u/Kingshorsey — 3 days ago

The only known witness of Xenophon Ephesius (and Chariton of Aphrodisia): Laurentianus Conventi soppressi 627

Unlike other books of the Laurentian Library (including all the Plutei), this rather famous manuscript has not been reproduced digitally so it's not easy to see specimens of it.

Laur. Conv. soppr. 627 (usually shortened as F) is a well known Greek manuscript of the late XIII century. The reason for its fame is twofold: it contains four of the five "Greek novels" (the only exception being Heliodorus), being codex unicus for Xenophon of Ephesus and Chariton, the only witness to the φ-family of Achilles Tatius (according to Vilborg), and a primary witness to Longus (according to Reeve).

The second reason is that, despite its pocket-size (17.3 x 12.8 cm: smaller than the Cambridge Green-and-Yellow format, roughly the size of an OCT edition), F contains no less than twenty-two items in 140 folios, written in an almost microscopic handwriting by a single copyist who regularly managed to fill fifty lines per page. The most notable pieces of literature herein are the four Greek novels, compressed and almost "hidden" in the span of a little more than 50 folios (ff. 22r–79v).

There also is a third reason for the manuscript's fame: the so-called «affaire Courier». Albeit known to scholars since the times of Politianus (who read Longus and Xenophon Eph. on this ms. before 1489) and Stephanus (who collated Achilles Tatius in 1547–55), F had been forgotten and, more importantly, never been closely inspected. Montfaucon and D'Orville knew the manuscript and signalled that it also contained Longus, but did not collate its text, even if Montfaucon had dated the handwriting to the XIII century (thus, earlier than the other known witnesses).

Paul-Louis Courier (1772–1825) "rediscovered" F in December 1807 and collated it more carefully in November 1809, finding that the text of Longus as it is transmitted by F does not suffer from the lacuna (1.12.5 τῆς ταινίας – 1.17.4 αὐτῆς) that distinguishes the other branch of tradition, represented by B (vat. gr. 1398). He published his finding in the same 1809, a complete translation of the novel in 1810 (limited ed. of sixty copies, advertised as "traduction complète d'après le manuscrit de Florence"), and shortly after the "new" Greek text with Latin translation and the complete text of Longus. Courier's editions are not memorable in terms of constitutio textus, but were unawarely based on the correct sources, for he had travelled to Rome and collated a Roman manuscript that is now identified with Vat. gr. 1398, that is B, the archetype of the other branch of transmission. In short, the transmission is bifid (and contaminated), and the two branches trace back to B and F which is, however, the only complete manuscript.

While Courier was printing his edition(s) of Longus, the librarian of the Badia fiorentina, Francesco del Furia, had found that the page of F bringing the 'new' text of Longus (f. 23v) had been damaged by a large blot which made the text illegible. The cause of this have never been established: Courier attributed it to a piece of paper that he had used as a bookmark, which got impregnated with ink and made it leak it on the manuscript; Del Furia (and Cobet), on the other hand, suspected that Courier had deliberately provoked the damage so that nobody else could claim the discovery. Only on 22 January 1811, fourteen months after the incident, Courier mailed his transcription to the Laurentian library. The document was immediately archived and lied forgotten, until Rosario Pintaudi rediscovered it in 1978.

Del Furia immediately published a pamphlet attacking Courier, Lettera della scoperta et subitanea perdita di una parte inedita del primo Libro de' Pastorali di Longo (1809). In its present state, the page is largely illegible, although modern photography and digital editing have permitted small progresses. There exist, however, a transcription made by Courier (aided by Del Furia and the vice-librarian Gasparo Bencini), later revised by Courier alone; and another transcription, made by Bencini and Del Furia, immediately after the damage had been found. Thus, for the "found and lost" Longus, we do not only depend on Courier's edition (which is emended ope ingenii, according to the practice of the time).

Reproduced are:

  1. f. 76v, 59 lines, containing Xenophon Eph. V 1.1–12.
  2. ff. 31v–32r, 40 lines each, containing Longus III 18.3–27.4.

Sources

  • A. Cajumi, Courier, Paul-Louis, in Enciclopedia Italiana (1931) [Enciclopedia Italiana Treccani].
  • N. Festa – E. Rostagno, Indice dei codici greci Laurenziani non compresi nel catalogo del Bandini, «SIFC» 1 (1893), 129–232: 172–6 [Google Books].
  • A. Guida, Qualche novità dalla pagina macchiata del codice Laur. Conv. soppr. 627 di Longo, in A. Casanova – G. Messeri – R. Pintaudi (eds.), e sì d'amici pieno. Omaggio a Guido Bastianini II (Firenze, 2016), 495–504.
  • R. Merkelbach – H. van Thiel, Griechisches Leseheft zur Einführung in Paläographie und Textkritik (Göttingen, 1965), pl. 21 (p. 68), for f. 76v.
  • R. Pintaudi, La polemica Courier-Del Furia a proposito del Laurenziano Gr. Conv. soppr. 627. Documenti di archivio, «Atti Accad. Colombaria» 43, n.s. 29 (1978), 201–38.
  • G. Vitelli – C. Paoli, Collezione fiorentina di facsimili paleografici greci e latini (Firenze, 1897), pl. 23, for ff. 31v–32r [digi-hub.de].

Reference editions

  • J. N. O'Sullivan (ed.), Xenophon Ephesius, De Anthia et Habrocome Ephesiacorum libri V (München – Leipzig, 2005) [Bibl. Teubner.]
  • M. D. Reeve (ed.), Longus, Daphnis et Chloe (3rd ed., Stuttgart – Leipzig, 1994) [Bibl. Teubner.]
  • E. Vilborg (ed.), Achilles Tatius, Leucippe and Clitophon (Göteborg 1955); Commentary (Göteborg 1962). — This edition was groundbreaking for it used almost all the known manuscripts and determined the textual transmission, but for a better critical text and more precise apparatus one should make use of J.-Ph. Garnaud (ed.), Achille Tatius, Le roman de Leucippé et Clitophon (Paris 1991; 2nd ed. 1994) [Budé].

Pinakes: 15899 (with further bibliography).

u/The_Eternal_Wayfarer — 3 days ago
▲ 14 r/AncientGreek+1 crossposts

Could Greek τῆλε (“far”) and Etruscan tular (“boundary”) preserve an older Anatolian/Aegean substrate root?

I’ve been wondering whether Greek τῆλε (têle, “far away”) and Etruscan tular (“boundary, border marker”) could preserve an older Aegean/Anatolian substrate root related to borders or limits.

The semantic shift would be something like:

boundary → beyond the boundary → distant/far away

In Etruscan we find expressions like “tular rasnal”, usually translated as “boundary of the Rasna (Etruscan people/state)” or simply “public/state boundary.”

So I’m wondering whether there may once have been a substrate root like:

\*tel- / \*tul- = edge, boundary, limit

which survived as:

Etruscan tular = boundary

Greek têle = beyond the boundary → far away

I know the standard explanation connects têle to PIE roots like \*kʷel-, but has anyone explored a pre-Greek / Tyrrhenian / Anatolian substrate connection instead, especially considering the old theories about an Anatolian origin of the Etruscans and the Lemnian connection?

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u/studente_telematico — 4 days ago
▲ 1 r/AncientGreek+2 crossposts

The Eightfold Path for Stoics.

I have added Nemesis (as described by Aristotelēs) to right thought. I have added Praotés (as described by Aristotelēs) to Right Action.

Nothing was fundementally wrong; I just feel that it is more accurate and precise this way.

Karl Marx used Lord Aristotelēs' ideas to support his criticism of Capitalism. He claimed Capitalism is a disease, and I believe he was close to Truth.

I dont think Capitalism is a disease, it is the product of a disease, an outcome. Uncontrolled CAPITALISM is a product of the DISEASE OF HYPOCRACY. hypocracy is a virus that destroys virtue itself, hypocracy will destroy ALL life on Earth unless we FIGHT BACK.

Regarding step 8:

Understanding that Lord Christ, Lord Plato, Lord Aristotelēs, and Lord Siddhartha were ALL Buddhas is necessary for the future of LOGIC and REASON itself.

If we can not accept this SIMPLE TRUTH, hypocracy will spread, and so will pollution. More plants and animals will die. Our sufferings will grow exponentially.

If we do not devolop Virtue as a species, we will go extinct with certainty. If we can devolop Virtue and challenge hypocracy, it is possible for OUR children to one day know PEACE on earth. They may even see another star.

It is important to consider the concept and progression of the 4 Jhãnas when thinking of Right Concentration and Eudaimonia as equals.

After you study and learn these Truths, will you help share this message around the world?

Sādhu Sādhu Shanti!

Om Shanti L'chaim, AMEN!

I and I, Rastafari.

u/Dharmapalalama3 — 3 days ago

can the genitive of χρεως be χρεως?

I have a very hard time believing this but in the CGL there are four nouns where the genitive is the same as the nominative.

χρέος χρέους , ep. χρεῖος χρείους , Att. χρέως χρέως n.

αἰδώς οῦς , Aeol. αἴδως ως f.

ἥρως ωος ( Att. ω , perh. also ep. ως ) m.

Here it's hidden between ** **:

Ἠώς Ἠοῦς Ion.f. also Ἀ̄ώς Ἀ̄οῦς ( also Ἀ̄όος Pi. ) dial.f. also Αὔως Αὔοος ( also **ως** ) Aeol.f.

Is this like for real?

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u/kyle_foley76 — 3 days ago

May I use Perfect the Subjunctive/Optative for a fear clause

I’m an Ancient Greek writer and I want to study syntax to write better. I’ve read that to indicate a fear clause in the past we use Indicative Aorist or Perfect. But as the fear clause indicates and eventuality, may I use the perfect tense to indicate an eventua action that is in a completed state?

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u/Isse_08 — 4 days ago

is my ancient greek tattoo legible?

my new tattoo, based on the τρισολβιος from the orphic gold leaves from pelinna – when i saw the stencil printed out, i thought the sigma looked strange not connected to the omicron as i always link the sigma to the next word when i handwrite greek, so i asked the artist to link the two... then i realised during the tattoo that it actually looks strange since the rest of the letters are separated and may obscure people from clearly reading it as a sigma and omicron. what do you think, is the word τρισολβια clear? is the sigma rendered weirdly?

u/Maria3628294 — 5 days ago