r/BTSNeutral

Don't get me wrong, what he (and Jhope) did was awful and I have already started taking out anything BTS related stuff I own, along with stopping following them in social media (I refuse to follow people who support abusers).

I have been commenting and talking on social media and I fully agree that it looked like he agree with the idea of feminism but definitely not do the actions necessary to actually be one. And therefore he was nothing but a performative feminist (or as some people commented "he read those feminist books with his eyes closed")

I also don't believe in the idea of "they probably didn't know" because there is little to no way they haven't seen about it or even been told by PR about it. And I also don't agree with the idea of "maybe the company don't let them speak" like, come on, they are millionaires in their 30s, the company would cater to their every whim if they asked.

Anyways:

I read Pixel Project article talking about why they decided to take Namjoon out of the list, and I agree soo much with everything they said. I don't think I could have found a better way to express the feelings and thoughts going on right now from the action to the silence.

But now, I put myself in his shoes and I'm like "man, how do you even get out of it?" If he had spoken before it wouldn't have taked such a bad turn, but here we are.

Idk, of course this is "the consequences of his actions" and I don't come here to say the opposite, nor that I support him, because I do not.

Just wanted to open up a bit, it must be hard to be him right now, seeing everything he built being thrown away. I hope he talks about it (even if now it would look fake and more like fire management), just hope he won't do anything drastic.

Edit: As you all are commenting, I just want to mention that in my post I kinda focused on Namjoon and how he might be feeling mentally but you all are still focused in the debate, which is very interesting but not exactly what I tried to bring here.

I think there are enough post for that.

I will get a lot of hate for this but these are my thoughts and discourse is welcomed, I also have no issue being proven wrong. I don’t hate the members but I find them quite hypocritical, and not just on an ordinary level.

Unlike J Hope, Namjoon prides himself in being an intellectual and having global and national awareness of different affairs. He subtly acknowledges different matters throughout his interviews and lives - for example, the racism against Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl, the war in Ukraine (an interview in a magazine I believe), the importance of feminism, loving all genders etc.

His instagram is full of his book recommendations, him reading books, going to museums, there is snippets everywhere . But that’s the issue -it’s snippets. You cannot tell how much of what he consumes from these educational sources he actually understands, digests and rationalises with. And with this scandal, I feel it highlights this. Not only because he is supposedly chronically online, but because as the English speaking member with the most international connections and exposure through travel, he ought to have known the ramifications of going to said person’s concert, and have enough cultural awareness on why the American, and specially black American community would have a problem with it.

This is not his first open mistake which highlights his lack of education. I’m not even talking about his continuous use of AAVE (the whole “twin” thing on Arirang is cringe ever since I heard it), mistakes he made as an ignorant teen with the haircuts and n word. When he posted a Frank Ocean song with Islamophobic undertone yet instead of acknowledging why people were upset and trying to explain his reasoning , his reply was irritated “it’s just a song, I’m not apologising, please believe what comes out of my mouth instead of assuming”.

And this is the problem with Namjoon: his ego is too big to take criticism. Because repeat offences where people are trying to highlight his lack of understanding on a matter (whether due to language/ cultural barriers) and either brushing it under , replying defensively or just plain ignoring everything (which is what he’s doing now). For a leader that prides himself on being intellectual, none of this comes across as genuine. Because intellectuals are not afraid of being challenged and having dialogues.

So in my opinion, this whole “feminist, intellectual, culturally appreciative “ RM that ARMY and he himself have painted is all just performative and a means of bridging a gap between BTS, the “normal” Korean men , and the international audience. Because I know damn well had they upset their Korean fans by doing something as dating, a whole handwritten letter would be drafted. So we know they have no issue apologising . They just don’t see International ARMY and their affairs as part of theirs. But then to RM - stop mimicking the people who platform you , support and defend you, when you can’t even stand up for them via a simple acknowledgement. Don’t in one breath become an ambassador against violence in Korea and then go radio silent on a well known abuser like CB.

And don’t pride yourself on being educated - because reading books does not mean you are educated on the world.

I think some ARMYs hold themselves in very high regard when assessing their importance in BTS’s lives; they’re just fans: they have no influence or say in BTS’s decisions or career. I always see fans (this happens in K-pop in general) claiming that they know more than the artists, that the artists don’t know what they’re doing and that the agency is to blame for something, simply because they can’t accept the fact that they disagree with certain opinions or perspectives held by their favourite artist. There are fans who say they can ‘educate’ them, and, quite frankly, that’s not possible: you don’t have access to them and, most importantly, you don’t know them. I know BTS are lovely to their fans and I really feel their love, but believe me, they see us as a vast ocean of support a sort of shield but they don’t expect you to educate them or meddle in their personal affairs.

This could apply to everything from the people they associate with, to the things they consume, or the opinions they hold on various topics. You can’t change their opinions on anything because you don’t have access to them. I think that we, as a fan community, need to learn to disagree with them without making a fuss, as we sometimes do. Believe me, they don’t take all this drama seriously; some of you treat them as if they were children, but they aren’t.

This came up during a discussion on the subject of the Gemini collab , I don’t like it and, to be honest, I don’t support it, but that’s my problem, not theirs. All this talk of ‘we have to educate them’ and ‘we have to make them aware’ is nonsense, people. They know what they’re doing; they’ve probably already had this discussion amongst themselves. As a fan, there’s nothing you can do about it perhaps just not support it? That’s the only realistic thing you can do.

We’re not friends or colleagues of BTS; we’re not part of their inner circle, and they know this all too well they constantly remind us of our place. I’m not saying you can’t criticise them or disagree with them, but do so in a reasonable way; and if it all gets too much for you, then move on to another artist or interest; believe me, nobody’s going to judge you for it. Let go of that need to control everything they do; they’re not always going to reflect your values, feelings, beliefs and outlook on life, and that’s fine because they’re independent individuals.

Calling out people who are going to the next Arirang shows (Arlington, Toronto, Chicago...). Add anti-AI icons to your signs that you bring to the concerts. Let's hope they show them on the big screen and if they do CHEER your lungs out. In case they won't show them up there, add the anti-AI parts on the other side of the sign and turn it when the sign is being shown up on the big screen.

Let's show people that we as a fandom have values and we're not being fooled just because our favourite band supports big tech and AI. This is not hatred but critisism towards BTS.

Edit: Good points from you guys --> This type of signs can lead to physical assault of fans and hysteria in the crowd which are dangerous.

--> AI is not simply bad in all forms My point was to oppose BIG TECH companies like Google (you can find a lot of info online about why these companies suck). There are some AI models that are more okay in my opinion for example Ecosia AI that uses renewable energy only.

--> Concerts are meant to be fun and this could ruin it for some people I don't wish that this would create a tense atmosphere to the crowd but be more like an empowering and kind of humorous aspect amongst the fans.

More about my point: I didn't presicely propose bringing big protest-like signs with only anti-AI stuff. More like maybe coin-sized little stickers that remind people that at least some armies don't stand with this specific AI company. This could keep up this conversation so it wouldn't be forgotten.

The Tannies have always been on the right side of history. In so many instances it felt like they were fighting with us. They’ve always held integrity and made the hard but right choices up until now…

Why are they leaning into this? Into AI?

Before people wanna tell me “AI is inevitable just deal with it”, please understand that you’ve been carefully spoon fed the inevitability of AI through ads and big tech. There more you think that, the more money they’re gonna make.

【why AI is bad. Feel free to skip this paragraph if you already know】→AI will be used to control the masses. It’s destroying the environment, depleting our water, polluting the air, bulldozing over invaluable ecosystems and animal homes. It’s ruining human connection, the ability to critically think or fact check or to think for oneself. It’s used to monitor people, their habits, and can be used to manipulate the masses. If the billionaires in charge of these companies wanted to, they could make us think there was peace in a war torn area via AI images. They could make us believe someone was alive when they’ve been dead a long time. The horrors are endless and it’s getting harder to know what’s real anymore.

There is no “good” way to use AI either— it’s all a detriment.
There is no ethical consumption of AI.

To see BTS— people who have given me a reason to live despite the hell this plant has become— lean into AI feels like a punch in the gut.

I used to say seeing BTS gave me hope that the good guys could still win.

Now I’m worried.

This is not to say I don’t love BTS or that they’re not good men. I still believe they are good men with good hearts. But they’re human. They make mistakes— and this is one of them.
I won’t abandon them because of this. But I also will have nothing to do with this collab and hope it goes quickly and they never do it again.

They have what most artists only dream of: an extremely loyal diverse set of fans who globally would defend them against anything.
I don’t want them to forget this. It’s not the money, it’s not recognition from other artists or award shows, it’s ARMY. I don’t want them to get caught up in this huge rise to the top and lose sight of how special that honestly is (not really related but I’ve been preparing my heart for over a year now for the day I see them at the met gala. I don’t want them to go there either ☹️ but I figured it would probably happen)

I don’t think I’m putting into words what I’m trying to say… I’m sure it’s easy to get caught up in the rich extravagant life but I don’t want them to forget us… to go to the dark side of the entertainment industry… it’s all becoming too much. They always stood on the side of ARMY—us average folk— I want it to stay that way…

And this AI stuff… I have no way to defend it.
I’m disappointed to say the least.

I wish we could somehow tell them this ain’t it, in a respectful way ofc.

When we love someone sometimes we have to say the hard thing, and tbh I think this is one of those times.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I was an ARMY back in the day but kinda drifted away cos life started becoming busy, and I’ve recently rediscovered BTS again with this new era.

One thing I noticed is how English-heavy Arirang is compared to their older albums. I was actually quite surprised, especially with an album called Arirang, and Namjoon saying in one interview about making this album about their Korean roots.

Did they ever talk about why they chose to have so much English on this album? Maybe there was an interview or content I missed?

Genuinely curious to hear what everyone thinks!

EDIT: I think I may have worded my question badly! I’m not saying that an album called Arirang should be in Korean or that Korean identity has to be expressed through the language. I have only recently started following BTS again, so I was genuinely surprised by how English-heavy this album is compared to the BTS I remember. But I genuinely love the album! I feel that it reflects a more mature side of them musically but you do hear some old vibes from their old albums.

I was more wondering whether they’ve talked about the creative reasoning behind that shift, especially for this particular album. Definitely not trying to say it’s somehow less Korean because it’s in English!

I was lurking on that subreddit (I haven't posted there in months), and I found out that someone posted me there, and I got surprised. For context, the post I originally posted ToddintheShadows was about supergroups that flopped, and I brought up SM Entertainment's super girl group GOT the Beat as my example. Before that, I brought up SuperM, SM's boy group. I use SuperM and GOT the Beat to compare their success in general, with GOT the Beat failing to chart in the US market because of a lack of US promotions, let alone promotions in general, compared to SuperM's promotions, which they were heavily promoted. I claimed that SuperM was only made to compete with BTS in the West, even the SuperM men are very talented.

First, I would like to say I'm a girl group stan in general, but if I had to choose boy groups to like, Shinee, EXO, and NCT would be my first choices. Second, I'm not a company stan, and I will never be one. Third, BTS did not invent groups with 7 members.

The reason why I said SuperM was only created to compete with BTS on the US market was because of how much promotion they were getting in the United States. Compare that to the original groups, where Shinee, EXO, and NCT don't even have half of the SuperM promotions. Also, not even non-SM groups, like Blackpink and Stray Kids, who were often called the next BTS, had big promotions like SuperM had.

This is my vent.

Je suis encore assez nouvelle dans l’univers BTS. Je connaissais quelques chansons avant, mais depuis leur dernier album, je suis complètement à fond ! 😍 Je redécouvre aussi leurs anciennes chansons et je me régale.

Je me suis inscrite dans plusieurs groupes pour partager cette passion, mais je dois avouer être parfois un peu déconcertée par certaines choses que je vois. Notamment des ARMY qui dénigrent certains membres parce que leur bias est différent, avec beaucoup de comparaisons et d’attaques.

Pour moi, être ARMY, c’est avant tout respecter les valeurs que BTS transmet : le respect, l’unité, la bienveillance et l’amour. 💜

Bien sûr, on peut avoir un bias ! On peut aimer davantage sa voix, son charisme, sa personnalité, son physique ou ses performances. Mais ça ne devrait jamais être une raison pour rabaisser les six autres.

BTS, ce sont sept membres. 💜 C’est justement leur complémentarité qui fait leur magie. On peut avoir un préféré sans opposer les membres entre eux.

Je trouve donc dommage de voir des ARMY se déchirer alors qu’on est réunis autour du même groupe. On n’a pas besoin d’avoir le même bias pour se respecter.

Aimons notre bias autant qu’on veut, mais respectons les sept. 💜💜💜
Voilà, c’était ma petite réflexion de nouvelle ARMY. 😊 Je suis curieuse de savoir comment vous voyez les choses. 💜💜