r/BelVethMains

I've found these Item and Rune combinations to work best on Bel'Veth

Passive Power in Runes and Items will always serve you well

Build 1 - Standard - Conqueror

RUNES

Precicion Tree

Conqueror - Triumph - Legend: Alacrity OR Legend: Bloodline - Coup de Grace OR Last Stand

Inspiration Tree

Magical Footwear - Cosmic Insight

Minor Runes

Double Adaptive Force and Scaling Health

Items

Kraken Slayer - Blade of the Ruined King - Death's Dance - Chain Vest/Negatron Cloak - Guinsoo's Rageblade - Guardian Angel - Jak'Sho - Yun Tal Wildarrows/Navori Flickerblade

Build 2 - For Fun - Lethal Tempo

RUNES

Precision Tree

Lethal Tempo - Triumph - Legend: Alacrity - Coup de Grace

Inspiration Tree

Magical Footwear - Cosmic Insight

Minor Runes

Double Adaptive Force and Scaling Health

Items

Kraken Slayer - Blade of the Ruined King - Navori Flickerblade - Yun Tal Wildarrows - Phantom Dancer - Death's Dance/Guinsoo's Rageblade/Guardian Angel/Lord Dominik's Regards

Good luck on the Rift

It has proc counter, so it must show big numbers, but it doesn't, so maybe it does not work on her E

I mean this in 100% good faith. I personally do not want Bel'Veth to change at all, or at least maintain her current kit as much as possible. But I am curious to see what people who DO want and are excited for the supposed midscope are seeing in it.

So what changes do you want to see? And I don't mean general ideas like "make her scale better" or "make her fit her fantasy" (even though I 100% believe she already does), I mean specifics. Like what changes, both ability adjustments AND specific number changes do you think a midscope would be, what would you want them to be, and why?

Though I DON'T want or think Bel needs any significant changes, I want to put out as many ideas as I can to achieve what people say they want while changing as little as possible. I find seeing other peoples ideas interesting as well. My ideas for both a more in depth rework and a more numbers based midscope are here if you are interested (though given how few people are on this subreddit, you've probably already seen them, and I'm sorry if I'm annoying)

https://www.reddit.com/r/BelVethMains/s/X78jkg3Jo6

https://www.reddit.com/r/BelVethMains/s/JQ4XaKbJyA

I think belveth is perfectly fine as is. I love the invading lv1 and I don't know why riot does not want this to be a viable strategy. It's not like she has no counter play. I don't know why Riot wants all junglers full clear and fight bot 3v3 every game.

Who says she is a late game scaler? She is a snowballing champ! Why can't everyone learn to it's champ identity and play like that? I don't want another nasus jungler yet they want to make another one. She is just a weaker nidalee with decent scaling into mid late game. Why can't riot just leave her as is?

It's always okay to have a niche one trick champion. It's okay to not have a champion that is popular and doesn't perfectly align with the lore. You are not writiing a novel or making marvel movie. It's just sad to see it go.

Riot August, I know you feel bad that you tried to make a scaling champion and you instead made a freak who terrorizes the jungle in the early game. I don’t care. I like playing the freak

Belveth is a great champion and super fun to play. She’s difficult to get the hang of and she plays differently from most junglers. That’s a good thing. If I wanted to afk farm and scale into the late game, I would play yi or lillia or karthus or even kindred. Riot made something super cool and they keep trying to shove it in a box because people don’t play a high skill floor champ as much as they play Master Yi.

I hope to god they do not take away her current identity to turn her into a worse version of champs that already exist just so someone in bronze can pick her up in 5 games and have success. I’ve played basically only bel for 3 years, she’s taken me from plat to diamond and forced me to learn jungle in new ways. Please don’t remove everything about her playstyle that makes her unique because you feel like her theming is off or your ego is bruised. Always remember the rengar mains got his assassin update reverted, we can too if this midscope ruins the champ that we know and love

Full idea at bottom

Why don't they just add a champion damage modifier to match the minion damage modifier to Q? Like it deals 60% damage to champions level 1, up to 100% at 5. Wouldn't that fix all the issues people have with hyper early invades? Instead of minion damage, it would be non-monster damage: 60%/70%/80%/90%/100%. It would change literally nothing other than her Q damage to champions, and would allow them to balance Bel'Veth adequately without having to worry about her being too strong early. Wouldn't that solve like, all of her problems? They could add stack scalings or just buff her late (or at least mid) to compensate, and boom, wouldn't that fix everything?

I really really really hope that the midscope supposedly planned is just something along those lines. Keep everything the same, just different numbers, and maybe different minor effects like E range scaling with stacks or something. Trade in power early for power late, but keep the champion as similar to how they are now as possible.

They could buff her base AD, particularly the growth then, and could make the W cast time go down with attack speed but the explosion delay based on level.

She wouldn't be able to invade or make big plays early as much, which would suck, but everything else she can do would stay nearly identical or slightly better.

Please just don't mess up the champion. I would rather sacrafice one element of the champion to keep the rest instead of everything being different.

Full idea

Q: minion damage modifier -> non-monster (champions and minions) modifier (60%/70%/80%/90%/100%).

Q: Base damage: 0/5/10/15/20 -> 10/20/30/40/50 (or 10/15/20/25/30 if 10 damage per rank is too much)

So her Q damage to champions is down until maxed, but it's damage once maxed and damage to monsters is higher (so her clear is stronger or at least even to counteract the base stat nerfs).

W: cast time: .5 -> .5-.15 based on bonus attack speed. Knockup happens .8/.7/.6/.5 seconds after ability cast at levels 1/6/11/16. (Bel'Veth is locked into the animation for .5-.15 seconds, but the knock up itself still takes .8-.5 seconds to happen after the ability cast so it is easier to dodge early and enemies still have the ability to react to it even when it has basically no cast time. She slams her tail into the ground faster scaling with attack speed, but the ground doesn't explode faster, instead exploding later until 16)

Not only would this make her less able to invade, it would make her early ganks worse as well. While the buffs to her late are large, the nerfs to her early are larger than you might first realize.

E: Range scales 100% with stacks (keep in mind her E range is already 500. Most games you get less than 80 stacks. More often than not this would amount to increasing it's range by less than 1/5th its base. This would mainly be there to play into her inevitable scaling fantasy more than any palpable power coming from it. If it were too strong, the base range could be reduced to 450 to compensate, or it could be 80% scaling or even 50%).

E: 35%/40%/45%/50%/55% -> 50% damage reduction at all ranks.

E: lifesteal: 20% (+100% lifesteal) lifesteal -> 20%/22.5%/25%/27.5%/30% (+100% lifesteal) lifesteal (or 10% to 20%). To make up for the damage reduction being 50% at all ranks, the lifesteal scales with rank (like it used to) to make put points into the ability not feel useless.

E: cooldown: 20/19/18/17/16 -> 26/23/20/17/14

R: Gains 50% damage reduction during cast

Health: 610-2395 -> 580-2450 (growth: 105 -> 110) (More by level 6+)

Armor: 32-111.9 -> 28-113 OR 30-115 (growth: 4.7 -> 5) (More by 14+ OR 7+)

Magic Resist: 32-66.85 -> 30-70.25 OR 32-72.25 (growth: 2.05 -> 2.25) (More by 10+ OR 1+)

Attack Damage: 60-85.5 -> 59-90.45 (growth: 1.5 -> 1.85) (More by 6+)

All these changes would make Bel'Veth weak to early invades, but very strong late game. When Bel'Veth was first released, she was weak to invades, and most of her worst matchups were invaders (Elise, Rek'Sai, Kindred). Back then she still had strong invades, but it was very "if she invades you, you lose. If you invade her, she loses". So all these changes would make Bel'Veth closer to how she was on release, with some better infinite scaling mainly for flavor. Keep in mind, the main idea behind this is the Q change, the rest is just some ideas put together to compensate and build on it

Would this be the ideal midscope?

No more cheese strat no more flipping raptors and win the game from level 1. We have smolder in the botlane asol veigar in mid and kayle gwen on top. Finally we are going to have belveth in the jungle. She is gonna be the pentakill machine in a 40 minute slugfest.

Majority of the playerbase will be very happy about this rework. The current state of belveth is just pathetic. Low play rate with a high winrate in high elo with people abusing the cheese strat. She is due for a change and here it comes!!!

RIOT AUGUST SAID HE HAS A READY REDY TO GO ZERI REWORK AND HE IS AIMING ON A BELVETH REWORK TO GIVE HER THE FANTASY OF SCALING INSTEAD OF "DOING HER WIERD STFF"

I think belveth should still be able to decide if she wants to play aggressive early, but it needs to be undertuned. Eve suggested that lvl 1 Q should do 0 damage to players but give it better bonus AD scaling and flat growth. I think that's a great idea that would still make her able to start comitting warcrimes from level 4 onwards or level 2-3 if she has prio.

Lorewise there's nothing preventing her from becoming a void queen via devouring enemy champions instead of camps. She should have that choice without being extremely disgusting in high level play.

I'm still just a lvl 116 emerald player with 700k belveth mastery so maybe my opinion holds no weight. But better speak out than not :)

since there is a lot of talk about bel'veth rework right now, i gathered some toughts about how to make it less of a feast/famine champ and also make it viable for all elos, here are my toughts :
1 - imo the problems are comming from her supposedly op invading strategy (that i dont personnaly neither like or play in my games) + her ult being the core of lategame gameplay so you're very weak without ult and probably average/sometimes op with ult in +20 min

2 - my idea is simple, for Q it can have only 2 directions lvl 1 with more directions with lvls, having 4 direactions by 3 points in Q (LVL 5) so she cannot invade lvl 2/3/4 anymore, ofc the camps dmg has to be tuned so the clear isnt affected

3 - for ult make it stack with farm + takedowns + objective (the formula can be easly tested/tuned by riot so bel'veth have more ult uptime with bieng a bit less reliant on neutral objectives/takedowns in late)

my general toughts is to keep her core gameplay and idendity intact, with less coinflip and less reliability on team comps and objectives, and from there the balancing would afterwards be done on her ult only, imo this will be balanced for pros as well as all elo brackets

my nightmare would be a total rework (asol, akali, skarner,ryze,gwen type of downhill history)

Olá, mains Bel'Veth.

Eu sou mono Rek'Sai, mas sempre gostei bastante da Bel'Veth e comecei a jogar com ela há algumas semanas. Depois de algumas partidas, cheguei à conclusão de que ela precisa muito mais de um mini rework do que de buffs.

Uma coisa que sempre achei estranha é que ela é vendida como uma campeã de scaling, mas, muitas vezes, no late game ela não passa a sensação de ser tão forte quanto deveria. E sei que não sou o único que pensa assim, porque vejo frequentemente pessoas aqui pedindo um mini rework ou até mesmo um rework completo.

Inclusive, recentemente vi uma proposta de rework em que a Bel'Veth evoluía suas habilidades ao longo da partida. Apesar de achar a ideia interessante, sinceramente não acho que isso combine com a fantasia da campeã. Essa é justamente a identidade do Kha'Zix. Não vejo motivo para transformar a Bel'Veth em outra campeã que evolui habilidades.

Também vejo muita gente dizendo que o kit dela não representa a lore por ela ser a Imperatriz do Vazio. Particularmente, não acho que esse seja o verdadeiro problema.

A Rek'Sai sofre de algo parecido. Ela é literalmente a Rainha dos Xer'Sai e nenhuma habilidade dela envolve seus filhotes. Eu adoraria que isso existisse em alguma parte do kit, mas isso nunca impediu a Rek'Sai de ter um dos kits mais completos e divertidos do jogo.

Na verdade, a Bel'Veth até está em uma situação melhor, porque ela já invoca as criaturas do Vazio através dos Corais do Vazio. Então, na minha opinião, o problema dela não é faltar invocações.

Para mim, a verdadeira fantasia da Bel'Veth é acumular velocidade de ataque até se tornar uma máquina de destruir inimigos, atacando tão rápido que o adversário praticamente não consegue reagir.

Já consegui chegar a 5.0 de velocidade de ataque com ela, e foi uma das experiências mais divertidas que já tive no League.

O problema é que, para chegar nesse ponto, normalmente você já precisa estar muito à frente da partida.

Outro problema é que ela é extremamente frágil. Ela entra na luta para ficar batendo sem parar, mas explode muito facilmente porque seus atributos defensivos são baixos. Muitas vezes parece uma campeã de "ou eu explodo alguém, ou sou explodido".

Na minha opinião, porém, o maior problema dela é a Ultimate.

A Bel'Veth depende demais da Forma Verdadeira. Sem ela, parece uma campeã apenas mediana. Com ela, parece outra campeã completamente diferente.

E eu não gosto da ideia de um campeão depender de abates ou grandes objetivos para conseguir acessar sua principal forma de poder.

A antiga Shyvana sofria exatamente com esse problema. Sua passiva dependia dos dragões, então, se seu time não conseguia fazer os objetivos, você praticamente jogava sem passiva.

A Riot resolveu isso muito bem permitindo que ela acumulasse sua passiva também através da selva.

Eu adoraria ver algo parecido na Bel'Veth.

Algumas ideias seriam:

- Red e Blue Buff poderiam conceder um Coral do Vazio mais fraco.

- A cada certo tempo, um monstro da selva, semelhante às marcas da Kindred, seria marcado pelo Vazio. Ao derrotá-lo, ele deixaria um Coral do Vazio menor, concedendo uma Forma Verdadeira com duração reduzida.

Isso diminuiria bastante a dependência de abates e grandes objetivos, sem deixar a mecânica sem graça.

Outra ideia que eu acho muito interessante seria expandir a mecânica das Remoras do Vazio. Hoje elas praticamente só aparecem quando você consegue um Coral de um objetivo do Vazio. Na minha opinião, seria muito mais legal se qualquer objetivo importante pudesse conceder essa recompensa, e não apenas Arauto ou Barão.

Outra possibilidade seria fazer com que, ao consumir um Coral do Vazio, a Bel'Veth abrisse uma Fissura do Vazio no local por cerca de 45 segundos. Enquanto essa fissura estivesse ativa, ela geraria Remoras do Vazio ao longo do tempo, e a frequência dessas invocações aumentaria conforme a quantidade de stacks permanentes de velocidade de ataque da Bel'Veth.

Além disso, tanto as Remoras geradas por essa fissura quanto as Remoras criadas ao derrotar tropas poderiam escalar com esses mesmos stacks, ficando gradualmente mais fortes durante a partida. Assim, o scaling infinito da Bel'Veth não ficaria restrito apenas aos ataques básicos, mas também fortaleceria seu enxame, reforçando ainda mais sua identidade como a Imperatriz do Vazio.

Outro ponto que eu realmente acho problemático é o E.

Sinceramente, ele me parece uma das piores habilidades de canalizar do jogo.

Campeões como Master Yi e Irelia também dependem de ataques básicos e possuem habilidades defensivas que permitem sobreviver tempo suficiente para continuar lutando.

O E da Bel'Veth parece extremamente limitado. O tempo de recarga é alto, a redução de dano parece pequena e, além disso, ela é obrigada a atacar o alvo com menos vida, o que nem sempre é o ideal.

Muitas vezes ela parece uma duelista que perde duelos, o que é bastante estranho.

Não tenho uma ideia perfeita de como mudar essa habilidade, então adoraria saber quais ideias vocês têm.

Já o Q, por outro lado, eu acho excelente. A mecânica dos quatro avanços e da recarga baseada na velocidade de ataque é muito divertida e eu praticamente não mudaria nada nela.

Por fim, acho que a Riot deveria abraçar de vez a fantasia da velocidade de ataque infinita.

Em vez de fazer as habilidades escalarem principalmente com AD, por que não fazê-las escalar com velocidade de ataque?

Por exemplo:

- O Q continuaria reduzindo seu tempo de recarga conforme a velocidade de ataque.

- O W poderia causar mais dano ou aumentar seus efeitos de lentidão conforme sua velocidade de ataque.

- O E poderia reduzir mais dano e curar mais quanto maior fosse sua velocidade de ataque.

- O dano verdadeiro da passiva também poderia escalar mais com velocidade de ataque do que com AD.

Se a identidade da Bel'Veth é acumular velocidade de ataque infinitamente, então faz muito sentido que todo o restante do kit acompanhe essa fantasia.

Assim, conforme você acumula ataques, não apenas seus ataques básicos ficam melhores, mas toda a campeã evolui junto.

Na minha opinião, o maior problema da Bel'Veth hoje não é falta de dano. É depender demais da Ultimate para funcionar e ter um E que parece muito mais fraco do que deveria. Um mini rework focado nesses pontos faria muito mais pela campeã do que simplesmente aumentar seus números.

I'm currently a D3 jungler and climbing very well (60% wr on all main champs), which I attribute a lot to both my macro but also understanding of draft/wide champ pool. I currently play Kha'Zix, Jarvan, Kindred, Graves, and Viego, and I'm very intentional about when I pick each champion. However, I was playing some games in Emerald elo trying out champs for fun, and I've really come to enjoy playing Bel'Veth. I play a very invade-heavy early game (start their raptors and either fight them on it, fight on red buff, or full clear up recall and kill them on my raptors, then always play for 2nd raptors spawn). Something about the very high mobility and how suffocating she is when ahead had me really drawn to her, as she almost seems like a bruiser-scaling Kha'Zix, and a good alternative to Jarvan.

I'm thinking about playing her on my main, but before I do I have 2 main questions.

1. When is Bel'Veth a uniquely good pick, not just in terms of matchups but general team composition? For example, Jarvan is really good into low-mobility enemy champions and if your team has AOE burst, Kindred is good when the enemy is kitable and you have peel/frontline, etc etc. I know Bel'Veth is a great OTP and never bad, but when is locking in Bel'Veth basically an auto-win or a better alternative to the pool I mentioned? Also what are good/bad matchups?

2. How do you play a full-clear style / play her from behind? Like I said, in the 20 games I've played on her I have only ever started my raptors twice (both because I got chunked). The enemy jungler typically makes an unforced error (not counter-jungling / getting caught invading) and at that point I just snowball my lead heavily. I haven't played a lot of her matchups where I don't win on the invade, but I presume they do exist forcing you to clear down. Basically, I only know how to play lobby admin Bel'Veth, so I don't really have a great grasp on her champion identity / reference points.

Also any other pointers or secret tech would be appreciated.

As someone who has been maining Bel'Veth in lane for a while now, she most certainly is NOT "excluded" out of lane by her Q minion mod. She doesn't need any specific changes to work in lane. Lane Bel'Veth hardly gets less stacks than jg Bel'Veth anyway due to most stacks coming from champion and objective kills, which mid tends to get just as many if not more of, and there are plenty of big minions to get stacks in lane.

Maybe if people would play lane Bel'Veth like lane Bel'Veth instead of jungle Bel'Veth but in a lane, they would realize as such.

Shyv doesn't get more stacks for champ kills than she does for monster kills. Bel'Veth does. They are not equivalent. Again, Bel'Veth gets maybe 20% tops less stacks in lane, so maybe 10 less on average. Oh no! what will you ever do without that >10% attack speed? That's like almost an entire minor stat rune worth of attack speed! She definitely can't lane because of that!

Oh no! Her Q has a minion mod? If only she had a ranged AOE spell with very high base damage she could use to clear the wave! Too bad her W doesn't exist I guess. If anything her Q minion mod HELPS her in lane, as she can Q mostly freely without worrying about pushing the wave too much due to how much little damage it deals, but again, nothing is stopping you from maxing W first. Or evenputting 2 or 3 points into Q before maxing W or vice versa

Like come on. Bel'Veth doesn't need adjustments to work in lane. BEL'VETH DOESN'T NEED ADJUSTMENTS! I just wish your average player would stop repeating nonsense about her they heard over 4 years ago about her not fitting her design.

Sorry this is a bit of a cry post. I just really disagree with this video and those stupid glasses aren't helping

Got bodied pretty hard by Rengar yesterday and was kind of stumped by how to beat him. Based on stats he should be an easy matchup but I quickly got zoned out of my jungle due to lack of vision and getting chunked from a bush constantly.

What are y'all doing to beat him? I've played against him a few times and always struggled, even when taking the early raptor into buff cheese I just get out-ganked then out scaled later (Gold rank so probably also missing something important in general vs assassin's)