r/BelVethMains

Okay so as many people have seen August has addressed the state of bel veth as being less than Ideal, acknowledging her weak and clunky early game. It seems as though he intends to shift her power budget to give her more early agency as well as return the QWQ combo in early game. These are two major changes that I've been asking for. If through these changes he makes lane veth viable once again, I am hopefully optimistic. What is important though is how he goes about it and how much agency he is to actually able to give her.

As for the E change. He mentioned possibly changing it so that It prioritizes champions. I am a little skeptical about this. On one hand, it is nice to always know your E will always prioritize any champions in range, but on the other hand, you may want to use E to get the significant healing from a low health minion wave or during an objective on for example the dragon or grubs, but now that will not work if an enemy steps within E range. Honestly I would probably rather have them revert the E completely. Nowadays, the execute identity of E is rather unimpressive.

I have also been reading some other posts lately on the subreddit which made me realize some things I haven't previously thought about. Bel veth is, to my knowledge, the only hyperscaling jungler (actually hyperscaler in general) in the game, with no real level 6 powerspike. This was fine before because she was so early game skewed that it didn't matter as much, however now like many other hyperscalers, she has an incredibly weak early game, except she also has no real powerspike level 6. On top of this as well the midscope has made it so now an ult at lvl 6 will likely last 45 seconds. That's barely enough time to base and buy then walk to a sidelane for a gank. Old bel could get grubs and it would be 180 seconds to work with but even non-void monsters was still longer. It seems to me bel veth was designed to get a lot of power from ult form because she was missing the powerspike that a typical champion does from getting level 6. Current ult seems at odds with her design. An already increadibly weak champion with no lvl 6 spike gets an underwhelming ultimate form that is reliant on you killing someone or contesting an objective? Seems backwards to me. IMO I don't really care about the infinite ult form and I would rather see them revert how the ult timings used to work. I think It fit better with her design and also I think the concept of her getting a longer form from the void monsters was an interesting use of her theme.

Think about any champion with no lvl 6 ulti: Jayce, Nidalee, Elise. Riot balances around the fact they have no lvl 6 powerspike by giving them a very strong early game, making their abilities strong to compensate. What do they do to bel veth? They make her weaker in early stats, they gut her abilities early by giving them longer cooldowns, and they make her ult form even weaker early while still not getting a spile at level 6. No wonder people think she has no agency. And now we're in damage control because she's less than optimal.

I would like to see someone bring this up to august on stream, actually maybe I will try to myself.

Her pick rate at all ranks the past 7 days is 2.31%. Her pickrate the patch before the midscope was 1.66%. That's .65% more, a bit over a third, not double. And before you say Bel'Veth had a lower pickrate than that before that patch, no she didn't. Three patches before the midscope were all above 1.6%. Bel'Veth's pick rate hit a low for about a month, then it started going back up before the midscope. Bel'Veth's pick rate IS double, if you deliberately go out of your way to only take into account the worst patch popularity she ever had.

Her pickrate is continuing to go down, hitting a new lowest for a certain rank every few days.

"Bel'Veth's depth went from a fair bit underaverage-"

No. No it wasn't. Bel'Veth was one of the most deep champions in the game. I've watched the stats on that since before August even said he was working on a midscope. Bel'Veth's depth before the midscope was around 1.17. To put that into perspective, that's higher than Yasuo, Riven, Singed, and the vast majority of champions. Bel'Veth's depth now is 1.31, .14 higher. So sure, her depth wasn't underaverage, but it is still higher right? And yeah, it is, but Bel'Veth's depth shortly before now was 1.46. Her depth went down by .15 in the past couple weeks, and just as her pick rate has continued to bleed, so will her depth.

Bel'Veth's breadth increased by .15. From .39 to .54. A significant increase yes, but again, it is still dropping, bleeding every day.

And before you say Riot's API is somehow wrong or not as accurate as Riot's sources themselves, need I remind you of all the many times Rioters have changed their opinions after looking at that API? Need I remind you of the fact that the API'S statistics on champion depth have always lined up with what Rioters have said they were before? Unless it was just coincidence that what Rioters said the depth was and what the API said the depth was lined up every other time except when it disagrees with August.

"E should prioritize champions"

No, it shouldn't. People love to think about all the times the E hits a mon-champion when they mean to hit a champion, but ignore all the times it hits a non-champion when they mean to hit a non-champion. Ignoring the fact that having the E hit the right target is a key part of Bel'Veth's gameplay, and a highly skillful mechanic that Bel'Veth has more than enough tools to play around, it isn't some flawed mechanic that you can't play around like a glitch or something, it is a very purposeful part of her design. Beyond that though, do you want Bel'Veth to be weaker agaisnt invades? Because that's what E prioritizing champions would do. Want to use E to finish off a camp while an enemy champion is going in on you? To get the heal, not only from the E lifesteal but from killing the camp? Nope. Your E will waste all hits attacks dealling sub 50 damage total on the enemy champion, and you'll just be sitting there letting the enemy do whatever they want. Want to use your E to clear a wave? Or use it to heal with the lifesteal on low health minions dealing high damage? Nope. Again, you will waste all your attacks on a champion. Because versatility? Dynamic gameplay? Counterplay? Skill expression? Who needs it! All you people want to do is mindlessly press E and continue to let your brain cells leak from your skull. Bash your head into the keyboard and right click. First the midscope makes the E damage near meaningless and makes just right clicking almost always better, now you'll have literally no reason to do anything other than press E on cooldown. Can't use it for literally anything other than the DR and stacking R passive. Why even have it do damage anyway?

'People will always choose security over freedom'

You people will always choose easy power over dynamic versatility.

"W should reset Q"

Yeah, because why did we do the midscope anyway? Screw it, just band aid fix the band aid fix! Instead of smart and simple changes, let's massively overnerf, then make unintuitive and lazy "fixes" that will cause more problems, after all that's what the rest of the midscope did, why shouldn't changes to the midscope keep up the pattern?

"Old players like invades"

Old players didn't like invades. Yes, some people really liked Bel'Veth specifically because of them, but the majority of Bel players were more than happy to give up level 1-3 invades for better scaling. What no one was happy to give up was E damage, lifesteal scaling, laning ability, remora plays before baron, meaningful W E and W R combos, meaningful build diversity, meaningful tactical diversity, high skill cap, even the attack after cast. August doesn't understand what people liked about Bel'Veth before the midscope, and he doesn't understand the issues people have with the midscope. Can't wait for him to only double down on the bad changes while walking back only the good changes of the midscope! You'll all say you love it I'm sure, and then Bel'Veth's pick rate and depth will continue to bleed

Return some early agency and let W refund the cooldown of Q on hit so that you can use the QwQ combo as intended. We need some love for lane bel as well! It seems August has heard the complaints from the community, he has addressed it on stream. It is only a matter of time now.

Also I still don't know why they completely removed the AD scaling on W. It already had both an AD and AP scalings. Now it is really only meaningfully utilized by people going AP bel lane which isn't very viable.

Im changing the titles from "Day X" to "Post X" so that I'm not constrained to a strict daily streak. Don't get it twisted though, the posts will continue.

Another thing, many people interpret what I am saying as bel veth is bad or unviable currently. That is not true. I just think the sharpness of her scaling and how weak and clunky they made her early game to achieve this, did not result in a champion that was more fun to play. My opinion is that It made her less enjoyable overall.

Title

And some of yall kept yapping crap like shes op and the nerfs are deserved

BV actually landed in an weak ish spot post rework and instantly got harsh nerfs (I agree the late was strong, but could have buffed her extremely bad early as well)

Doesnt help the fact that many streamers kept saying shes op to clickbait your asses, posting videos about it and gaslighting themselves and the community to believe she was op. Lots of people and posts here kept claiming she was op as her winrates and playrates over time kept getting lower and lower. Those same streamers abandoned the champ, say is shit and dont perform with it in their real elo

So yeah, gj guys, the balance team got gaslit into believing this low elo skewed rework was op and now has a terrible winrate for a low elo champ. Look at alnost every other single low elo champ (briar, ww, trundle, rammus, amumu, etc) all being kept at 53% wr because if they dont leave them overtuned nobody ever plays them

Now look at bv... Low elo skewed, underwhelming stats and nobody plays her

Anyways Riot should take the hint and give her a bit of more early agency back... For example make Q cooldown scale from 4-1s to 3-1s depending on level (heck this buff could be either huge or insignificant, but we want a bit more of early agency and less clunky gameplay... If its too strong other parts of her kit can get nerfed like ulti damage, or remorra stats, etc)

Riot good job you finally dropped a good rework. this champion is some of the most fun I've ever had in league. Please do not pull a kayle and give her early game power at the cost of late game power.

All the people complaining about this rework are a vocal few and I want to make sure if you read the subreddit you don't go oh all the bel veth players hate this rework let's give her early game power and nerf her late game.

I want to make sure riot knows they cooked with this rework. This shits crack I love 1v5 God mode Penta kill machine late game. Do not touch the late game. Don't do it.

This can't be the best bel can be. Give her more early game agency. Whether thats by reverting her E, letting her Q reset, changing her numbers around, or a mix of everything. Also, the more I think about it, the less I like them removing the AD ratio on W. All it is really good for is AP bel veth mid which isn't even good but they kinda have to go AP out of necessity because lane veth likes to max W first and I dont really like it because AP doesn't scale well with her kit compared to AD. I'd rather them just make it have both AD and AP scalings again.