r/Blackmouthcur

Found this pup wandering. Took her to the vet and they said she was black mouth cur mix. Thoughts?

I adopted this little guy from the humane society a couple months ago. Any ideas if he is a BMC? He’s a 15/10 on the Energizer bunny scale, is tall at 27 inches, weighs 49 lbs, and is wicked smart. As a younger person I had a border collie and Matthias here is the closest I’ve ever had in intelligence. I will get him tested when I can this fall, thanks!

Posted my dog a few weeks back thinking he could be bmc, was told to order an Embark test, the wait is finally over! The shelter was right about the mountain cur part! Knew he definitely had some pit in him, but the other breeds caught me off guard especially basset hound and border collie 🤣 here’s some last pictures of sweet handsome lancer, such a cool mix :)

First things first, a disclaimer regarding the photos. Had this been posted on Tumblr, Wordpress, or Medium, I would've had these photos be spaced out between different paragraph breaks when relevant. Had this been on Twitter or Bluesky, they would've been further down in the thread when relevant, but we're on Reddit, so they're stuck at the very top, which I know is confusing initially, but it'll make sense reading further in. I promise the pictures of my dog that is not a BMC, and the picture of my cats, will make sense and will be relevant!

Anyway, I've sure you've seen it here quite a bit lately; people butting heads about what is and isn't a black mouth cur, people posting their fawn shelter mutts with black agouti and/or masks and not asking "Is my dog a BMC" but instead, confidently claiming, "My dog is a BMC." The former, I think, is fine, the latter is getting a bit ridiculous, and the overall reactions from both sides of the argument have been frustrating and often needlessly hostile.

The question that comes up the most frequently is probably "Why do people think they have a BMC?" or "Why do people claim they have a BMC when they don't?" And I've provided answers in replies before, but I feel like making my own full post just to be concise and have my thoughts all in one place.

Tl;dr - People kinda suck at identifying dog breeds, and are not as knowledgeable about animals in general as they probably should be, which is why I think a "good faith educational" approach is best. But if you wanna read all my thoughts, they'll be below.

So, I think the main reason a lot of people ask if their dog is a BMC, is due to multiple factors, chief among them being that a lot of people adopt their dogs from rescues. This in particular splits off into two separate, or potentially overlapping, problems, either 1) The shelter has misidentified the dog as a BMC, and told the adopter this, or 2) The adopter does not know what their dog is, and instead of paying money for a DNA test, their first course of action is to look up dog breeds and try to pinpoint what their dog may be from there. As I said, these two things can overlap.

The dog pictured here is my old girl Shay, who, as a child browsing the AKC website, I'd initially concluded she was definitely a chinook, which, yeah in hindsight even as I got older I realized there was NO chance that was correct, lol. She was a shelter mutt, her siblings at the shelter looked about the same as she did, though some had very prominent white ticking (especially on their paws) and/or more prominent black masks than she did. I remember this vividly, even if I was only six years old at the time, because I wanted one of the puppies with the "white socks," until I found out they were boys, lol. Not necessarily because of "cooties," but because I wanted a dog that reminded me of my previous chow mix whom I'd lost shortly after getting her as our landlord had figured out my folks were keeping a dog when their lease didn't allow one, and that chow mix was a girl.

So... chinook was obviously incorrect, I realized this by the time I was a teenager, which, around that time, I was like, "Huh, why does Old Yeller have its own dog food, I remember watching that movie as a kid and the ending was pretty nuts for a Disney film!" So, I'm Googling stuff about Old Yeller, find out that apparently he's a "black mouth cur" in the book, look this dog up, and go, "OH! Shay looks a lot like this I think!" My searches at the time told me that "black mouth cur" describes a tan mutt with a black muzzle, not that it's any specific breed, and I'm like, "Okay so kind of like a pariah dog but in the southern US." I conclude then that Shay is a BMC.

And now, as an adult, and as a primarily dog person who is now incidentally a cat person as well, I've realized my blunder, and nearly 8 years after Shay was euthanized, kick myself in the ass daily for having not had her Embarked.

See, me becoming a cat person is how I realized my blunder, because I repeated the same blunder with cats, mixing up breeds with specific coat patterns and colors. I had a "Russian blue," and she had a litter of three "bombays" and one "Russian blue" like herself... if you're a cat person as well, you already see exactly what mistake I made. I was so confused when I'd tell vets that my cat Klein (the big boy featured in the picture of my cats) is a bombay when they'd ask for breed, only for them to write down "domestic shorthair" on his paperwork! Why would they do the same for my aunt's cat, writing down that he was a "domestic longhair" and not a "tuxedo cat."

Well, that's how I found out "tuxedo," "tortoiseshell," and "calico" describe specific fur colors and patterns, not breed, while "bombay" and "Russian blue" are breeds, not just any black or gray/"blue" cat, respectively. This made me piece together that my cousin's "Siamese cats" were likely just "seal point" domestic shorthairs as well. And then it made me think back to dogs, as well, and I discovered BMCs, while yes, a landrace like pariah dogs (and other village dogs), are a specific breed, and Shay was certainly not that. Maybe she could've been part BMC, but I'll never know, and even then, I've concluded she was likely some Shelter Special concoction of beagle or maybe coonhound, ACD, GSD, and let's be real, probably pitbull and chow, they're like, always there, and this was the early 2000s so chows were even MORE prevalent in shelter mixes back then.

This is something many, many average people are susceptible to, and sometimes even dog enthusiasts can fall into these trappings too! It took me a while to find out what I described above, I wanna say I was around 19~20 years old when I found that out, and I was SO enthusiastic and very autistic about dogs and different breeds of dogs ever since I was a small child. A lot of people really do just identify dogs based on appearance and color more than they do genetics, and those people tend to make mistakes.

After all, we also live in a world where people fully believe chihuahuas descended from fennec foxes (lol), where everyone calls their shelter cat with seal points "Siamese," where people INSIST a dog can't be a pitbull unless it's a UKC-registered APBT specifically even though "pitbull" describes a breed type and not a singular breed, and where, and on the flipside, I've seen people argue boxers and rottweilers are "types of pitbulls." We live in a world where people still cite outdated studies about wolf packs having "alphas," and cats only being "semi-domesticated," where people post poorly photoshopped images of dog skulls and say "this is what a bull terrier's skull looks like, isn't that AWFUL?!" Where people post images of off-standard hypertype Tibetan mastiffs and go "haha isn't it silly that Tibetan mastiffs start out as cute puppies and grow up into big scary monsters?"

People just kinda suck at breed identification in general, like, my parents at one point insisted my obvious chihuahua mix had to be mixed with pitbull because she was brindle and "that's only a pitbull color," on the flipside, I know someone with a purebred, pedigree AmStaff who was 1) asked if his dog is a boxer, and 2) told his dog can't be a pitbull because they "don't come in brindle." (SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH???)

So, all of that answers why people both ask if their dogs are BMCs, and why they assume their dogs are BMCs. And, in my honest opinion, I think "people are just bad at breed identification" is way, way, waaaaay more likely than "people just want to pretend they have a rare breed when they don't." Not to say the latter never happens, we had a neighbor who insisted her very mutty mutt was "actually half-wolf, and certainly there are a lot of people who REALLY wanna have a special rare breed, like my eight y/o self insisting my shelter mutt was a chinook, of course.

This is why I think in general, people need to be approached in good faith on this sub, from people willing to educate, instead of being approached in bad faith and met with hostility. I understand people are tired of having to explain it over and over, I certainly am also tired when I joined this sub to learn more about the breed and see people posting their BMCs, because I think they're a fascinating breed, only to see very little in the way of actual BMCs, and most discussions about whether or not a dog is a BMC turning into petty slapfights, with people coming over from anti-pitbull subs to add fuel to the fire and heckle people.

When I got my second black cat, no longer did I tell anyone he was a bombay, instead I love my domestic shorthairs for what they are, as I find cats as a landrace domesticated animal deeply fascinating, and I find black cats, supposedly bringers of "bad luck," to be my favorites alongside torties. Since I've since been corrected myself, now I also try to educate people on how no, their black cats aren't bombays, and not only is that okay, but their cat is still lovely all the same!

So, I think that should be applied to BMCs on this sub as well. No one's saying you have to leave the sub forever if you don't have a BMC; I currently don't even have a dog at all, just my two cats, and I don't plan on getting a BMC any time soon, but I still love the breed after finding out it exists, and y'know what? It doesn't matter that Shay wasn't a BMC, she was a Shay, and I was the only person to ever have the one Shay in the world. You should love your dog for still being unique to you, even if there's no rare breed in its genetic makeup. If you want to post your dog in specific subreddits, there are plenty more for mutts, pitbulls, GSDs, mixes of either, etc. etc., no one's saying you can't still TALK here, or enjoy other people's dogs or the breed itself.

Lastly, I just want to say that the likely reason people are posting their dogs here that are only a small percentage BMC, and a large percentage other breeds, but not posting in the breed subs for the other breeds, is because they're only first hearing about BMCs this way, while they've certainly heard of and seen plenty of pitbulls, GSDs, ACDs, goldens, etc. before. I do agree they should check out the other subs, and especially that they should check out the subs for mutts, but I don't think it's some moral failing or whatever for them to post here too, unless they speak with too much authority on the breed, sure, but that should just be gently corrected, and I don't think excluding them from the sub entirely for their dog "not being BMC enough" is a gentle correction, that's an overcorrection, and I think that's where the gatekeeping rule best applies. Otherwise, I maintain that this sub could use a healthy amount of gatekeeping, and it seems like this sub may be headed that direction.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read, I'm looking forward to this sub (hopefully) getting a user flair update soon.

We were told boxer/shepherd mix. She has shepherd freckles and boxer facial expressions. The one in far right is a black/ mouthed cur. It’s a southern “breed.” Basically a mix- she’s all muscle and tall and lean. Very energetic and sweet. I think boxer/shepherd/ pit mix.

My baby girl Sasha just turned 4 years old. She's the bestest girl. 🥰

Here is is now ➡️ and a few days after we brought her home at 3 months old in August of 2022.

We adopted this beautiful girl today. Her name is Jackie. She's 2 months old.

They told us she was a Shar pei mix but my husband found out she looks more like a black mouth cur, I also think that.

What do you think?

And some tips for training and breed characteristics will be well appreciated 👍🏻

(My only experience is with a Doberman)

Just moved to GA, Arlo is loving the river.

He talks 24x7x365. Or he plays. Or he catches flies with his tongue. Or just does anything goofy. I love this dog!

she is so silly but also such a good girl. i’m thinking of getting a DNA test for her because i think she is a black mouth cur. does anybody disagree? don’t be shy you’ll save me some money 🤣

my gf thinks she’s more boxer/pitbull. i definitely see some hound-like traits in her, im leaning BMC. probably a mix or something but if anybody cares to comment im open either way!!