r/DottoreMains

Dottore as The Scapegoat (spoiler tagged for religious/blasphemous imagery. Also story spoilers)

Hello, everyone. Max here. I've got some things on my mind that I'd like to share. As somebody who's spent more than half of their life studying religion and especially the occult, I've noticed a few things about Dottore that really made me pause to think. I didn't really plan to share these musings, but after talking to a friend (u/AsleepPen9974) I've decided I'll go ahead and upload my thoughts. This might be a little messy, so apologies if it seems like frantic ramblings. Because... That's kind of what this is. A disorganized collection of threads that may or may not lead somewhere.

As we all know, Genshin is chock full of Zoroastrianism and Gnostic symbology. Over the past couple of months, I've been doing a personal study on Dottore and how he fits into the grand scheme of the game's religious allusions.

Trigger warnings in advance: this post will be touching on the Occult as well as Christianity within the framework of Genshin's own approach to religion on the whole. If it makes you uncomfortable to see certain (potentially villainous) characters compared to the likes of Jesus, then please discontinue, because I'm about to lay down some blasphemy.

With the disclaimer out of the way. Let's begin

Scapegoat - M.C. Escher

"Hah... I don't like this story. The hero was too arrogant, and the dragon was too stubborn. They were both idiots who couldn't find another way."
"They claimed they wanted to save the world, but they couldn't even understand what the other was thinking. If it were me, I'd never do it like that."

"That's good to hear. After all, this idea of sacrificing yourself to save the world is little more than an unrealistic obsession."

- A Teaspoon of Transcendence, weapon description

So, to start off, there's something about Dottore's design(s) that's been bothering me for a while. And I'm genuinely sort of surprised it hasn't been brought up elsewhere. But has anyone noticed that he has stigmata? Not in the literal sense, but his design evokes that image, and it feels pretty intentional.

https://preview.redd.it/5a2b5a4clhbh1.jpg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=118576302f712a4b6a32f0016f5bc4cc9a198bcd

https://preview.redd.it/dy3dyaddlhbh1.jpg?width=492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e619a5dd21f5014878174c38eedbaafbff27ae62

Each of them has stigmata symbolism on both feet, and each of them has one hand with the same circle in the palm. Moonttore's is on the left hand, and Datattore's is on the right. They each represent different approaches to religious dogma and ceremonial magic. Ironically, these paths are the opposite of the stigmatized hand. More on that later.

I also believe each of them represents Chi (The Greek letter X) and Psi (The Greek letter  Ψ). X, interestingly, is often attributed to Christ, whereas Psi is often attributed to the devil.

https://preview.redd.it/e3wkufz9mhbh1.jpg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=520d729152b545fd4f115f2b373a4b4edcb146f0

The image above showcases the various places where an X can be found in the Heretic of the False Moon's design. I've also circled the parts that symbolize his stigmata!

https://preview.redd.it/f94e91zomhbh1.jpg?width=534&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=caa386e2ce9f0dc866cb2d08a80b282f427a844e

Likewise, here I've highlighted his stigmata as well as his incorporation of Ψ.

So, what does it mean? Personally, I believe that these two segments are equally representative of the two halves of Omega/35's contradictory philosophy. These two halves of him symbolize the duality of his personal goals and desires. On one hand, he wants to be a divine savior for humanity. On the other hand, he feels he has to embrace his role as a villain in order to further his goals. And with those two approaches in mind, let's get into the occult practices themselves.

The Heretic of the False Moon and The Right-Hand Path

During the events of the Nod-Krai patches, there comes a point where Dottore kidnaps the Traveler in hopes of recruiting them to his side of the conflict. Now, personally, I think the majority of what he had to say was entirely performative, but I won't be touching on that in this post no matter how strong my belief in my personal reading is. I only want to analyze exactly what he had to say about the goals he presented to the Traveler.

Let's talk about the Right-Hand Path.

The Right-Hand Path is the usual framework by which various dogmas operate worldwide. It adheres to a strict set of tenets that promote union, social harmony, and the elevation of the many versus the self. The Right-Hand Path adheres to the status quo-- those who follow the right-hand path submit themselves to a higher power and surrender the ego in order to perform acts of altruism and/or spiritual purification. Essentially, the right-hand path upholds the world's mainstream conventions, with a focus on ritual, tradition, and formal structure that communes with a higher power. The right-hand path also usually incorporates systems of punishment and reward into their dogma, such as karma, heaven and hell, or the three-fold law.

I think it's also pertinent to mention that the right-hand path also divides the self into three parts. The mind, the body, and the soul. The id, the ego, and the superego. The heavenly self, the human self, and the worldly self.

"All who live yearn for equality, but unless the gods prostrate themselves and profess that they are mere servants of the living, equality can never exist."

"The creation of a world is the ultimate scientific experiment. I have taken my research to the highest level, where I shall be not just a god, but also a servant to many sacred spirits. I shall heed the truth and perform holy deeds."

- Il Dottore, A Traveler on a Winter's Night

Despite his selfishness and massive ego, Dottore in this instance wants to fulfill the role of the divine. While it certainly takes quite a bit of egocentricity to conflate oneself with a god, his image for the world and for humanity is one wherein the divine serve the many. The promises he offers up to the Traveler during this quest fundamentally aligns with upholding the world's current institutions.

"The hero Narzissenkreuz always dreamed on a scale so vast and noble,
That no mortal vessel could withstand its weight.
And so the hero longed to transcend the weakness of flesh and blood.
He dreamed of shouldering all sin and suffering by himself,
Of wiping every tear from the world through the mysteries of a tearless magick,
And of attaining what some called transcendence — a transformation like the leap from ape to man."

...

"Perhaps the dragon simply could not understand the hero's choice. The hero wanted to save the human world, but he couldn't accept human weakness."
"And if not everyone could become a hero strong enough to rise above fate, then there was no meaning in transcendence for one person alone."

- A Teaspoon of Transcendence, weapon description

However, Dottore's goals are overall antithetical to the right-hand path because it prioritizes his own transcendence over the transcendence of the many. Although he would ultimately be fulfilling the role that he feels a god should fulfill, he still fails to recognize that the world he wants to provide is not one so easily accepted by the many. He lacks the empathy necessary to understand human weakness, and thus cannot fulfill the role that he feels is being neglected by the shades.

This is reflected in the design of the Heretic of the False Moon, whose left hand is the one with the stigmata symbolism. His own ego puts him at odds with the right-hand path, because only a person as individualistic as himself could put themself on the same level as a literal god. And interestingly enough, the archive entry actually nods to a left-hand path ideology, rather than the right-hand.

https://preview.redd.it/qthocx1n3jbh1.png?width=883&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4acbf8110049c4f632d982fcaea6a4af5f9c253

The Exalted Master of the Heretical Path and the Left-Hand Path

Which brings us to The Exalted Master and the Left-Hand Path. We've discussed what the right-hand path is. Let's talk about the left-hand now.

The left-hand path in occultism is the right-hand's equal opposite. It focuses more on empowerment of the self in order to reach personal enlightenment, as well as the rejection of religious institutions and divine authority. The Exalted Master seeks to weaken the power of Teyvat's divine authority, by any means necessary. He, once again, elevates himself to the level of a god in order to challenge the world's laws. He is more committed to entirely overthrowing the system and building something new from the ground up, unlike his other half, who sought to perfect what was already in place.

However, once again, his actions are antithetical to the left-hand path, symbolized once more by the stigmata symbol being on his right hand. By ridding the world of Irminsul's influence, he essentially performs an act of altruism and sacrifice, freeing the many from the power of the ruling divine. That's not to say that it's necessarily a purposely altruistic act. However, it does potentially open up the avenue for humanity at large to transcend its current state. After all, now that all of Teyvat's information is being parsed by the Aaru, it is much more firmly in the hands of the people of Teyvat than it was before.

And just like with Heretic of the False Moon, his archive entry nods towards the right-hand path ideology rather than the left-hand.

https://preview.redd.it/bw7b4vqu3jbh1.png?width=734&format=png&auto=webp&s=783aadea26edc430b1e91b2f85d294252d2dc0c4

Anyways. These are just some thoughts that have been on my mind. Leave it to a former practitioner to see patterns where they may or may not exist. There are people far smarter than me in this sub who could probably dig more into this and find even more evidence for what I'm trying to get at. Which, at the end of it all, is that Dottore is in some capacity a scapegoat. And he very well may have made himself into one purposely. The Christian iconography feels very intentional, so I can't help but wonder if there's some sort of a savior narrative going on here. I do think, however, that there is plenty of room to look at some of the other harbingers (Capitan, Columbina, and possibly Pierro) with the same saviors' lens. I want to emphasize that although I see savior imagery within Dottore, I don't think he is the end all be all savior, or that he is a literal representation of Jesus within the game. I think they each may represent an aspect of the Christ figure. Capitano sacrificed himself in order to preserve the afterlife, helping the souls of his men and many others to move on from this world and return to the leylines. He's a warrior and a champion of the people. Pierro would represent Christ as a leader, sending out the other harbingers to perform on behalf of the organization. It's worth noting that including himself, there are twelve seats within the harbingers' ranks, even if some of those seats are currently vacant. Columbina represents Christ as the divine, a genuine god sent to walk among men. Dottore, then, would represent Christ as the scapegoat. One who shoulders the sins of others in order to free humanity from the burden.

Do with this what you will :') I've run out of the energy necessary to organize my thoughts further. As I said before, there are people far smarter than me in this sub who can probably do way more with these threads than I can.

Thanks for reading!

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u/melancholicprophet — 3 hours ago

Parallels [spoilers for sandrone's sq]

I am not very upset about sandrone playing the piano, sandrone and dottore are parallels to another.

In the tweet (made by genshin’s official Twitter account)

Upon its release,They reposted the cutscene of him being dragged to primal fire[scroll to read the tweet, it's title is the catch here]

[ primal fire works as a purifier rather than killing/destroying ]

And in sandrone's sq, sandrone talks about the splitting of the soul, and converging it onto one.

And I think the piano was one of the parallels, too.

Feel free to add your observations from simulanka!

u/blayk_kroe — 2 hours ago

An attempt

Some time ago, I've read a theory that The Hanged Man card (from the lunar arcana and not only) is the card hoyo use to symbolize Dottore, Deshret, and Hroptatyr. Ever since then I've been a bit obsessed over this card.

Enter a Lord of the Mysteries song. About 50% of the reason why it was enough to make me go read a 1300+ chapter long novel is the presence of The Hanged Man in the list of characters there. As it turned out this character doesn't in fact represent The Hanged Man card, even the author of LotM assigns a different card to him in one of the QnAs.

There is, however, a character who does. A character so controversial that he's impossible not to hate until you learn the whole story, at which point he becomes impossible not to admire. A character that gave PTSD to everyone he interacted with, including the readers. A character who used cruel, inhumane means to reach his goals. A character who, in the end, loves the world. I won't say his name, since this post exists in part as an attempt to lure some of the Dottore fans to LotM fandom (I believe this connection is surprisingly well suited).

I keep trying to imagine what Dottore would think if he could experience the reality of the LotM world, how he would react to the actions and convictions of some of the characters there. How the world would change him, and how he would change the world. And most of all, I really would love to see a conversation between The Hanged Man of Genshin and The Hanged Man of LotM.

Anyways, I wanted to express my love for these two fandoms in one post for some time haha

Praise the Heretic of the False Moon, the Madman, the Virtuous Doctor

And also

Praise the Fool

u/sukanasuke_ — 2 hours ago

Okay, which one of you guys put Dottore in Beyblade burst? 😭😭😭

I was watching tv with my little sibling inm crying 😭😭😭 can't escape this man

u/Acrobatic-Minimum697 — 8 hours ago

This excerpt from a random tome in the Nuur Stone Circle kind of reminds me of Dottore🥲

Or maybe I’m just seeing things that aren’t there, like Disney adults with their Hidden Mickeys

u/its-maybe-a-boy — 5 hours ago

Friendly reminder that TCG could tell us about dottore's future as playable character

With the 7.0 TCG card leaks, it looks like the developers are gradually introducing the entire Nod-Krai cast into Genius Invokation TCG.

Up until now, almost every Weekly Boss has eventually received a playable TCG card—including Signora.

The only apparent exceptions have been playable characters who also have a Weekly Boss fight, such as Raiden Shogun, the Wanderer, and Arlecchino. However, they did receive TCG cards based on their playable designs rather than their boss forms. That makes sense, since the playable version seems to take priority over the boss design in TCG. In all three cases, their playable versions and boss fights were released around the same time.

Dottore is the obvious exception because he isn't playable.

Following this pattern, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Moontorre TCG card around Versions 7.1 or 7.2, possibly alongside Columbina's.

And honestly... if that happens, I don't think it's a good sign.

I'd definitely enjoy playing him in TCG—I love both Genius Invokation and Moontorre—but I'd actually rather not see him get a card.

If he doesn't receive one, I think there are two possible explanations:

  1. As nither Moontorre or Dr Data are considered his definitive design (basically the only things we'll see of him for the rest of the game) If HoYoverse plans to make Dottore playable later with a different design, they may simply be waiting to release his TCG card based on that version instead. Since TCG doesn't seem to allow two different cards representing the same character on the field, the playable design would likely take priority.

That would be a good sign actually, hinting at a possible return?

  1. Dottore is a special case. His clones (Segments) make him fundamentally different from every other character. Releasing a boss-form TCG card now could become awkward if a playable version arrives later. You could even argue that two different Segments could coexist, but that would be pretty unusual from a TCG perspective. On top of that, he already has two distinct boss designs, which makes deciding which version should become the "official" TCG card even more complicated.
  1. They release both boss designs eventually, and maybe even a dottore playable at the end/middle of snezhnaya. This is the best case scenario to me, (and totally not hopium).

If he ends up never being playable... It'll be bittersweet for me to play his tcg boss.

Another thing that seems important. Dottore is a tcg ghost.

As someone who's followed Genius Invokation TCG since its release, I've noticed a pattern over the years that makes me think HoYoverse doesn't quite know what to do with Dottore in that format.

A good example is what has happened since Natlan. Nearly every important character, Harbinger, or even deceased character has been represented in TCG in some form. Capitano, for instance, isn't playable, yet he still received an Arcane card.

Dottore, on the other hand, has received absolutely nothing.

Even throught a small backround art, you'd think they'd show him.

BUT NO.

Look throught the tcg card shop if you don't believe me, there's npc cards, characters cards, things from old events and world quests, and nothing about him, nowhere. (For now.)

Despite being the main antagonist of Sumeru, playing a significant role in Inazuma, returning as an antagonist in Nod-Krai, and existing in Genshin's lore since the 2018 manga, he still hasn't made a single appearance in Genius Invokation TCG. Absolutely no illustration of him. 0. Peanuts.

That's what makes his absence so unusual. At this point, it feels less like an oversight and more like HoYoverse is deliberately avoiding representing him until they decide what direction they want to take with the character.

Let me know what you think and if you have theories ! :3

u/Acrobatic-Minimum697 — 11 hours ago

Something I only recently realized about Dottore and 347 (+more facts)

3+4+7 = 14

Datattore is the 14th weekly boss fight in the game.

It's weird how everyone have been writing theories left and right about Dottore and that number (because Hoyo *spams* it in relation to him) but nobody have talked about it in relation to how his second boss fight is the 14th in the game!

Hoyo has the perfect opportunity to make him playable and release him following the same pattern then.

The obvious version is 7.7 because (3+4)7 and there could be a parallel to how Sandrone was released in a .7 patch too

They could make it second phase because in the year 772, a real life pagan monument known as Irminsul was burned.

If he's not playable in Snezhnaya, they could make the 17th boss fight him too and make him playable there, but that would be in Khaenriah and I'm not sure how much he's related to that nation to be honest

I'm preparing a lengthy post about Boborano's ancestor's fate (the prophecy about Dottore) and how it strangely resembles lore about Odin the norse god, but it's taking long so enjoy this in the meantime.

More number symbolism related to Dottore:

Moonttore was the 13th boss fight, 13 is a number associated with very bad luck in western cultures.

We fought Datattore in version 6.6, 66 is the number of books in the Bible, but it is also one "6" away from being the infamous Number of the Beast.

Dottore's leitmotif is uses 347 liberally, in addition it's filled with tritones.

The numbers 3 and 7 are considered very lucky numbers in China many other Asian countries, while the number 4 is seen as unlucky in China and Japan because it is pronounced similarily to the word "death". 7 is seen as a number of "completion" in many cultures and Buddhism holds it in high regard as the number of enlightenment.

The Ancient Greeks saw the number 7 as the union of the divine (3) and the earthly (4). Personally, I'd associate 3 with Moonttore, the 13th weekly boss, and 4 with Datattore, the 14th weekly. Moonttore is a god, and Datattore is connected to the earthly via the Irminsul. The lack of a satisfying 7 other than that Anomalous Tree Marrows is disappointing though, unless it has yet to be introduced?

If Hoyo wanted to take Dottore's number symbolism even further, they could release him with a kit dedicated to a reaction involving the 3rd, 4th and 7nd elements, which are Electro, Dendro and Cryo, therefore Rimegrass. Rimegrass and Rimegrass + Electro is theorized to be introduced in the second half of 7.x, since there's no signs of it being introduced in the first half. Rimegrass also fits Dottore's story perfectly, and Simulanka-related foreshadowing in a quest related to Nicole highlighted the word "roots". In the temporary "test" version of Rimegrass from IT, the reaction was visualized by root-like vines trapping/binding the ~~subject~~ enemy. Oh how I would *love* to see Dottore doing this 🤤

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u/DottoresPet — 9 hours ago

Gumble (Daily Image #77)

Lowk didn't know what to do. Then inspiration struck! Dottogum balls!

The gumball machine is made from splicing together the top and bottom of two seperate machines. The Dottoling however is unique to this image! It's pretty cute, so I'll prob use it again tbh...

It's a little simple and less effort than some previous ones, but I enjoy it. It's silly, fun and cute.

Image idea (dailydottoresubmissions at gmail dot com or DM)

When our gumballs come out, TOGETHER WE ARE DOTTORE!!!!

u/Big-rat-in-the-sewer — 10 hours ago

it's all over the screen

could it be possible foreshadowing?

Could this another side be another reason for his playability/return?

u/blayk_kroe — 19 hours ago

Share me your favorite song and I will rate it from 1-10 based on how Il Dottore it is

For reference or sum:

1: Unrelated and/or trash

2: Slightly experimental

3: Lab vibes

4: Slightly reminds of dot

5: Gives Dottore

6: Datattore would recommend

7: Address me

8: VERY dottore

9: Pantalone would recommend

10: Four Unspeakables/ Prajnaparamitopadesa to Quell Seven Calamities type shi

I will listen to what you post, bless my ears gng

u/Nikleoudion — 19 hours ago