r/IrishHistory

I always found this topic interesting as before Irish became a language spoken on this island there was already people living here over thousands of years. From what I've learned the Celtic language seems to have been introduced here around the late Bronze age or the early Iron age and was the dominant language right up until the 1800s.

Before the arrival of Irish, there were already people living here and it's been theorised that the language they spoke was definitely not an Indo-European one, there is also a theory that some Irish words may have been borrowed from this unknown language. Another thing I've been wondering is if it was possible that there was a few languages spoken here at the time, because of the Hunter gatherers, the neolithic farmers and the Bell Beakers all settling there so could different languages be spoken in different parts of the island at the time?

But I've always wondered how did this language (or languages) go extinct and because there's no records or evidence that there was writing of this language, do you think it will ever be possible we find something about it or a lead to what it was like?

A chairde,

Tá mé san fhaopach gan Éireannach. The only version of this book that is out of copyright is the original printing, but I simply do not have access to it three thousand miles away. No one has digitized this version, but I very much would like to, not least so it can easily be reprinted, as where I live the price of this book has gone a bit nuts.

The book currently sits in a few places that I can find:

National Library of Ireland

Tipperary County Council Libraries (not for loan)

Mary Immaculate College Library, Limerick

University Limerick

UCC

QUB

Dublin City University

TCD 7 UCD

Outside of Ireland: Leeds, Wales, Oxford, Sydney

Perhaps your da’s shelf too, I dunno. If anyone can help, I’d be thrilled. The 1933 printing, if you can’t find the date on it or you aren’t sure, has 381 pages.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh!

Much has been said about the experience of urban communities during the the Troubles. What was it like for the more rural communities, particularly the ones that didn’t make the news, such as those outside of Bandit country? What was the experience like for mixed rural communities who were a significant distance from the cities and towns of Northern Ireland?

On a warm August day in 1963, Dublin was shocked by a crime that would become one of the most notorious cases in the city’s history.

It began with the reported disappearance of 16-year-old teenager Hazel Mullen.

Hazel, one of seven siblings, lived with her widowed mother Bridget at home in the lodge of Crinken Church in Shankhill, Co Dublin, where Bridget served as sexton and caretaker.

The Green Tureen stood at No 95 Harcourt Street 

Within days, the investigation would lead to the arrest of a South African medical student, Shan Mohangi – and to the grim discovery of Hazel’s dismembered body at the Green Tureen restaurant at No 95 Harcourt Street in the city centre.

Mullen, who worked in a chemist shop off St Stephen’s Green, had been in a relationship with 21-year-old Mohangi for nearly a year.

Mohangi, the son of wealthy South African sugar-cane farmers of Asian descent, had been studying medicine at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland since 1962.

He also worked part-time as a chef at the Green Tureen restaurant located in the basement of the building in which he also rented a flat on the top floor.

He enjoyed a very good relationship with the wider Mullen family and was a frequent visitor to the Mullen home in Shankill.

The subsequent garda investigation found that Hazel left work and travelled to the Green Tureen to meet Mohangi on the afternoon of Saturday, August 17.

Mohangi had already planned to meet Mullen’s older brother, Desmond, and his girlfriend later that evening for a meal in his flat overhead.

Initially, Hazel had no plans to attend the meal, but told her mother that she would be joining Mohangi and her brother later that evening.

After meeting Mohangi in the restaurant’s basement kitchen, Hazel told him she wanted to end their relationship.

According to subsequent statements to gardaí, Mohangi claimed that in a fit of rage he grabbed Hazel by the throat and strangled her.

After briefly running upstairs in a panic to his flat, he returned to the restaurant and used kitchen knives to dismember and decapitate the body.

During his attempt to burn the body parts and clothes in the restaurant’s ovens, neighbours saw plumes of thick smoke and called the fire brigade.

Alerted by the neighbours knocking on the restaurant door, Mohangi turned off the oven and extinguished the fire.

When the fire brigade arrived, Mohangi told the fire crew that the smoke was caused by a burning rag and assured them that all was in order.

He then hid the body parts in the restaurant bins before dining with Hazel’s brother and his girlfriend.

Later that evening, after the couple had departed, Mohangi worked his normal Saturday evening shift in the restaurant.

As Hazel had obviously not returned home on that Saturday night, her family became concerned.

Early on Sunday, August 18, Hazel’s brother Desmond travelled to Shankill garda station and reported her disappearance.

Feigning ignorance of Hazel’s whereabouts, Mohangi joined in the search for the young woman.

Two days later, the student broke down and confessed to his employer about what had actually happened and gardaí were immediately alerted.

A subsequent search of the restaurant and Mohangi’s flat resulted in the gruesome discovery of Hazel’s remains, and the South African was arrested.

Mohangi’s 16-day trial opened on February 10, 1964, at Dublin’s Central Criminal Court and attracted huge crowds and widespread media coverage.

The nature of the crime shocked the relatively low-crime environment of early 1960s Ireland.

The prosecution outlined the details and the jury found him guilty of murder, which carried a mandatory sentence of death by hanging.

Mohangi’s legal team immediately appealed the verdict, arguing that the State had failed to prove “deliberate intent” or malice at the exact moment of the strangulation.

>The death sentence was commuted, and Mohangi was sentenced to seven years in prison

The Court of Appeal agreed that the evidence better supported a sudden loss of control rather than calculated murder, and reduced his conviction to manslaughter.

As a result, the death sentence was commuted, and Mohangi was sentenced to seven years in prison on May 14, 1964.

After serving four years in Mountjoy, Mohangi was deported back to South Africa in 1968, where he changed his name to Narentuk Jumuna and became a successful businessman.

In 1984, he became a member of parliament for the ruling National Party in the House of Delegates, an Asians-only chamber of parliament in apartheid South Africa.

Twenty-five years later, in the post-Apartheid era, Mohangi had switched political allegiance to the Independent Democrats, one of the opposition parties to the ruling ANC.

However, just before the 2009 parliamentary elections, his dark past was revealed by a journalist.

Mohangi withdrew from political life as a result.

Perhaps the most extraordinary aspect of the gruesome murder of Hazel Mullen was the fact that Bridget Mullen publicly forgave Mohangi.

She consistently said she bore no grudge against him.

After Bridget’s death in 1997, her son Ian also said that the family had forgiven him for the murder of Hazel. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/the-grisly-slaying-of-a-teen-girl-in-south-dublin-restaurant-and-how-her-killer-went-on-to-be-a-politician-in-south-africa/a/159972851.html

Odd request, but I’m wondering if anyone has any info on Malahide Castle & grounds. Have a very young child relative who keeps talking about missing his “old brother and sister from when I lived there” and about how he fell out of the big Oak tree, hit his head and then woke up as a baby in our family. He’s only 10 and has been mentioning this for a while and it’s a bit freaky haha. Couldn’t find anything on google, it’s just giving me results about a kid who was injured in the playground in 2008.

The Parliament of Ireland existed for 500 hundreds and constitutes a big part of the parliamentary and representative style of governance in Ireland. It was also a racist, sectarian, classist, undemocratic system that facilitated English minority rule in Ireland. When the Roman Catholic Relief Act 1793 was passed the Parliament was almost immediately dissolved, revealing its true purpose. But I can't help but feel that hundreds of years of debate there must have been some parliamentarians worthy of remembering with appropriate qualifications.

I’m sorry if this is too open-ended to answer well. But what’s the favorite paper you’ve read in Irish history recently? Maybe published in the last decade or so?

I’m finishing up my (unrelated) master’s dissertation and will lose my library access at NUIG soon enough. But I’d like to read a few things for fun now that I’m in the final stretch of writing.

I’m partial to the Middle Ages but I’m open to any time period. It could even be an article on archaeology and not history as I love prehistory too.

Again, I know it’s a broad request but I just want to read anything but psycholinguistics at the moment 😂

I’m building a history game and working on the Irish side of it.

What scene from Irish history would be most interesting to step into? It could be a famous event or something more local, as long as the scene itself would be interesting to explore.