r/Israel_Palestine

Those poor Israeli troops can’t murder as many Lebanese civilians as they would like to. It must be heartbreaking to be an Israeli storm trooper in Lebanon today. Some of them haven’t killed a child in months! I don’t know how they can stand it.

Probably because I post on this sub-reddit, i've had 'Ask Israel' promoted to me over the last month. When I read the questions and answers from Israelis, it's clear that almost all of them dare not put themselves in Palestinian shoes. Sometimes they might say they acknowledge the suffering but will quickly say Palestinians brought it on themselves, the suffering is exaggerated online, West Bank settler terrorism and warcrimes by IDF soldiers are rare and not routine etc.

It is noticeable that Israeli discourse only can focus on Israel as being the victim and Palestinians are perpertraitors. It feels like if they acknowledge the humanity of Palestinians they feel it diminishes their own. They seem surprised that the rest of the world does not feel this way, and can only rationalise it by believing that the rest of the world is antisemitic. Here in the UK I have seen people who have been supportive of Israel for most of their lives turn against Israel over recent years after witnessing Gaza and the escalation of Israeli violence in the West Bank. Have these people suddenly turned antisemitic?

And then there is the distortion of history, again to paint the Palestinians as having brought this fate entirely on themselves. I would ask Israeli supporters to answer the following:-

1. If a foreign power (ie the UK) proposed to divide up your homeland (ie Peel commission) in which 225k (25%) of your people would be forced to move and your people were not consulted, would you accept it?
2. If a new plan was drawn up which would give over 50% of the land to a minority group in your country consisting of 30%, would you accept it? (i.e. UN Partition plan)
3. If the most 'generous' peace offer was to only give you 22% of your historic homeland back, fragmented into two zones not connected to each other whilst your hostile neighbour who led to your ethnic cleansing in the first place maintained control over your borders, airspace and key water sources would you accept it? (i.e. Olmert plan, Camp David)
4. If your people lived in cages surrounded by army checkpoints, lack of free movement, reduced ecnomic opportunities and periodic violence from hostile terrorists and soldiers, would you resist?

For balance, If I had been a Jew living with Pogroms and then an industrial attempt to end my people in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s, I absolutely would have gone to fight for a homeland in Palestine. I would have done everything in my power to bring my people to safety.

This is another case where the silence of zionists is overwhelming. If you condemn criticism of Israel, but do not tell Israel that this is awful, everyone knows what you support.

my money is personally on the guy that likes to dream about doing butt stuff with a Jewish PAC

I've been trying to find out how many Israelis were killed by friendly fire in the 10/7 attack and I'm having trouble finding any sort of figure. We know the response was delayed which makes the lack of information troubling.

Are there any estimates of how many Israelis were killed by Israeli forces?

From politicians to celebrities to regular people, everybody said if Hamas freed the hostages, the killing of Palestinians would stop.

Truth is everybody knew in their heart that freed hostages = no more reason for Israel to hold back. Some people just pretend they didn't. Some don’t mind the killing that continues.

When you listen to the Pro Israel crowd much of their arguments are rooted in many fallacies, half truths and deflection tactics. This has always been the case but increasingly in the face of the increasingly exposure of the genocide that has taken place there is a "throw anything at the wall" kind of quality that is becoming apparently as public support for Israel in many places. I want to go through some of these fallacies and half truths at a historical and logical level through the following examples:

1)You guys single out and protest Israel all the time. This shows you guys are antisemitic

The singling out argument is one that is thrown out all the time. It's basically this notion that if you critique Israel it must be because you're holding Israel to a standard you don't hold other nations. Now, anyone who has ever been a part of any type of Pro Palestine solidarity movement or knows anything about Palestinian nationalism knows that this is nonsense. When we talk about Palestinian nationalism historically, it has always been against occupation regardless of who the occupiers are. When the Ottoman Turks were occupying Palestine you had Arab Nationalist movements and local Arab groups in Palestine who protested Ottoman policies. Many Palestinian nationalists explicitly participated in the Arab revolt against the Ottomans. When the British were occupying Palestine Palestinian nationalists protested British policies of censorship, exile and restriction of movement among the populace. When other Arab countries such as Egypt and Jordan occupied the Palestinian territories of Gaza and the West Bank even though they had a common Pan Arab cause with them they still resisted their attempts to dominate the Palestinians. In Gaza for example Egyptian authorities actually jailed Palestinian nationalist groups because they often times had a hard time controlling them and they were against Egyptian domination with some being tortured. In the West Bank when Jordan proposed to annex the West Bank that spawned such a fierce reaction among Palestinian nationalists that the Hashemite King Abdullah I was assassinated by a Palestinian nationalist. So irrespective of whether the identity of the occupier is Turkish, British, Jewish, or Arab Palestinians are against occupation. When we talk about the broader solidarity movement literally the same people I have seen who is at Pro Palestine rallies are the same ones who were at BLM protests, or protests for Native American and First Nations rights in a Canadian context. If you extend this more globally in places like the Pacific some of the same people who protest for the rights of Australian Aborigines and the Maori in New Zealand are the same ones who show up to pro palestine rallies. So this talking point is false.

2)Anti Zionism is antisemitism because it is a denial of Jewish self determination on their ancestral homeland. Furthermore anti zionists engage in antisemitic behavior

This critique is guilt of both the correlation causation fallacy as well as weaponizing identity politics to shield an ideology from criticism. First of all, Zionism is a nationalist and political ideology. The notion that any ideology can't be critiqued is absurd. The notion that a nationalist ideology in particular can't be criticized is ridiculous. The reality is that all other nationalist ideologies are subject to criticisms, including forms of nationalism that is ethnically or culturally based. In a Western context no one thinks you are a racist for critiquing Serbian nationalism. The Serbs have a history of oppression going back to the Ottomans. And they were placed in concentration camps in WWII. And yet in the context of the Bosnian genocide no one would say that critiquing Serbian nationalism is bigoted against Serbs. No one thinks you are automatically Russophobic in a Western context if you critique Russian nationalism, especially in the context of Ukraine. It isn't automatically considered racist if you have critiques of Black nationalism. Same thing when we speak about Arab Nationalism. In fact ironically enough in Arab and Palestinian circles there were intense debates about the role of nationalism in the first place. And yet for some reason this one nationalist ideology is meant to be held up as some sort of golden calf. Now have there been antisemitic expressions of anti zionism? Sure. We can look at the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which was the Bible of 20th century antisemitism. But there are racist critiques of many other nationalist ideologies. And yet we are allowed to critique those ideologies

3)Israel is surrounded by nations that want to wipe it out

This is the "surrounded on all sides" argument that is used to defend Israel by its supporters. Here's just a couple of problems with this argument. The first as a general historical observation, this argument is weaponized a lot by many nation states and political projects that have an oppressive, militaristic, chauvinist or genocidal ideology. The Nazis in WWII used the "surrounded on all sides" argument between the Western allies and the Soviets in the East to justify what they were doing in terms of Lebensraum. Apartheid South Africa used the same argument, saying that they were "surrounded on all sides" by hostile African nations as well as proxy groups for the Soviet Union and that was used as an excuse to have Western nations in the Cold War prop it up. The second problem with this argument is that in a 2026 context it's factually incorrect. Since the 1970s Israel has had diplomatic relations with its Arab neighbors. They have a treaty with Egypt which brings them into such a close working relationship with them that the Egyptian government assists them in the blockade of Gaza. They have a treaty with Jordan. Now with the Abraham Accords they have treaties with many of the Gulf States. So this notion they are "surrounded" in the current reality is nonsense.

4)Israel pulled out of Gaza and all they got for it was constant rocket attacks

This is one of the arguments that is suppose to apparently show Israel's generosity. They pulled out of Gaza apparently and in response they received relentless attacks from Gaza. Here's the problem with this argument. It doesn't tell the full story of Sharon's disengagement plan. Sharon's disengagement plan did indeed withdraw Israel's infantry and settlements from Gaza. What it did not do however is end control of Gaza's airspace as well as the ports for what can go in and out. Now here's the thing. If this was any other movement would people accept those conditions? If during the American revolution the British pulled their infantry from the Thirteen colonies but still retained control of Americas ports does anyone seriously think the founding fathers would stop fighting? If during Israel's own independence war the British pulled their infantry from Mandatory Palestine but still had the RAF control Israel's airspace and retained control over the movement of people and goods in and out of Mandatory Palestine would the Israeli nationalist militias stop the insurgency they had against the British? And yet for some reason this standard is expected of the Palestinians. Furthermore the other side of Sharon's disengagement plan was that the settlement blocs of the West Bank would be annexed to Israel as part of a final status agreement. That in itself is a problem because any final status agreement was either bi or multilateral in terms of its approach to all issues on the table including settlements. So this is fake generosity.

5)When they use the term colonialism it had a different meaning back then

This is one of the arguments put forward to try and rebut the charges that Israeli nationalism is rooted in settler colonialism. When they are confronted with obvious quotes from figures such as Jabotinsky who in his Iron Wall essay explicitly speaks about "Zionist colonialism" they say "well that word meant something different". Now lets think about this for a second. The early Israeli nationalist movement was using the term "colonialism" the way it was used in a 19th and early 20th century context. So presumably if we can't use the word the way it is used now, then we'd have to use it the way it was used back then right? Well what's the context of how it was used "back then". It was used in the context of events such as the Scramble for Africa by the European powers, the colonization of the Western prairies through the Numbered treaties of the Canadian government, and the colonization of Indo China by the French. Now would anyone think say for instance that because the word "colonialism" meant something "different" back then that we could not call what King Leopold did in the Congo colonialism? Or that what the British were doing in Kenya was colonialism? The analogy is apt because these colonial projects were taking place right when the Israeli nationalist movement was budding.

6)It can't be genocide because if it was they would have wiped out all the Palestinians. Furthermore Palestine has population growth

This argument is absurd on multiple levels. First a genocide isn't simply wiping out everyone in a population. It is the intent to destroy "in whole or part" the key word being "in part". Furthermore genocide does not only have to be physical. There is cultural genocide, biological genocide, and the intent to create conditions of life that make things unlivable for a population. All of those things are genocidal actions. Furthermore population growth taking place during a genocide does not mean genocide did not take place. In East Timor for example the Indonesian army carried out a genocidal campaign where 200,000 men, women and children were exterminated. And yet there was population growth that took place from 5-600,000 to around 1 million by the end of the occupation in the 90s.

There are many many other fallacious arguments and half truths but these are a couple of examples of this.

Despite all the haters, Israel won second place in Eurovision 2026!