r/OutsideT14lawschools

This r/sub is a great source of comfort, comradery, stress, (and stress reduction) for many people.  Here are 25 hot takes. Would love to hear more!

1. r/lawschooladmissions consistently says “I would go to HYSCCN at sticker.” r/biglaw consistently says “I would take the $$$$.”
2. If you don’t search r/lawschooladmissions or Google before posting your question, then you might not be ready for law school.
3. Your undergraduate major and university matter way less than you think.
4. Data on LSD.law are not representative and not necessarily accurate. Posts on r/lawschooladmissions are not representative and not necessarily accurate (including this post).
5. Top law firms are hiring your law school admissions resume plus at most one semester of grades. This was always true, but even more so with the demise of OCI. That’s why 2+ years of real work experience (and getting promoted into manager roles) proves you are employable, which is job #1 for law school admissions folks. HLS and YLS admissions deans admit to now looking for "formed" applicants.
6. Any KJD tax varies significantly by school. In an "Approach the Bench" podcast with HLS Admissions Dean Kristi Jobson, she said "..the percentage of the applicant pool that applies as a college senior [K-JD] is like somewhere in the high teens, and the percentage of 1L class this year is in the high teens as well. A couple of years ago, the faculty committee had me measure the admit rate...for college seniors versus non-college seniors, and actually the admit rate was the same--or in one year even higher--for the college seniors from the non-college seniors in the admissions process. So, I mean, data don't lie, right?"  But this is just HLS.  Minimum_Two_8508 did some LSD.law analysis for 170+, 3.9+ applicants over 2 years and found Michigan drops from 17% to 6%. Duke drops from 33% to 18%. NYU drops from 51% to 39%, Columbia drops from 42% to 31%. Meanwhile, for Cornell, acceptance rate actually goes up a bit for KJD.
7. LSAT and grades show you can handle the academics of law school and pass the bar.  You may not like it, but LSAT scores consistently have been shown to be the single best predictor of 1L GPA, even more highly predictive than undergraduate GPA.
8. Submit one app early, preferably not one of your top choices, and then sleep on it for a few days. You will have nightmares/waking thoughts after you submit your first app. Spelling errors, typos, word choices, wrong headers, etc.  If you have regrets, you can fix for your remaining apps.
9. LORs are the most overlooked part of your application. Recommenders can say things about you that you cannot, and they can say things that emphasize important themes across your materials.
10. By April 1, most people on this r/sub will have more waitlists than decisions. I've posited that GULC admits about half their class off the waitlist to manage yield and finances.  When I posted schools should publish how many applicants were admitted off the waitlist, Spivey posted "would shock you it’s so high ⬆️ for most school as yield is very low for virtually all schools including T 14."  Also, many schools will ghost your application well past deposit deadlines. This sucks.
11. LSAC costs way, way, way too much. LSAC earns $~75m/year for administering LSAT, CAS, and sending reports to law schools.
12. Incoming law students are wildly overconfident about their academic performance. 95% believed they will end up in the top half of the class.  More than 22% of students predicted they would be in the top 10%.  In reality, students who ended up in the top quarter of their class slightly underestimated their eventual ranking, while those in the bottom quarter significantly overestimated their rank.
13. No law school has ever rescinded an offer because of what someone wore to admitted students’ day. 
14. For Fall 2025, there were 525 GRE admits and 41,778 LSAT admits.  GRE admits were down from 701 in Fall 2024.  About 1/3 of the GRE admits are in the T14. Columbia increased dramatically to about 10% of the class, just above Harvard and Yale. Georgetown and Cornell reduced significantly.  Almost all GRE admits are above GPA median.
15. LSAT Writing will be valuable as a check when there are concerns the PS appears to be better written than the rest of the application would indicate the applicant should be expected to write (e.g., international, STEM).
16. Write your PS in the first person. But after you've written your PS, edit to take out as many of the "I" and "me" and "my" words as you can. Don't make it awkward, but you can probably cut half of these words and it will read better.
17. KJDs with great grades, high LSAT, and great campus involvement/leadership have a good application and will get good results. But not unusual. Same for the same applicant with 1-2 years of paralegal experience. Good, but not unusual.
18. Your resume says more about your politics than your law school.  Consider two people:  FedSoc@Columbia vs ACS@GMU.
19. Listen to the Navigating Law School Admissions Podcast with the Harvard and Yale admissions deans, starting with the first episodes. Good info even if you aren't aiming for Harvard and Yale.
20. No one on this r/sub knows what is going to happen with BL hiring in 4+ years or how AI is going to impact the legal profession.
21. LSAC guidelines state that member schools should "Allow applicants to freely accept a new offer from a law school even though a scholarship has been accepted, a deposit has been paid, or a commitment has been made to another school."  Many schools don’t abide by these guidelines.
22. You can accept a late offer.  You may lose deposits, but no one can make you attend and pay tuition.  In fact, tuition isn’t actually due at many schools until after classes start.
23. Shame on GULC (and others) asking for binding commitments without giving financial information.  This clearly violates at least two of the LSAC Member Law Schools' Statement of Good Admissions and Financial Aid Practices.
24. You and your application are unique. What you submit is 1000 times more important than all the other applicants and applications combined.
25. It only takes one acceptance.

I've known my undergrad GPA was cooked for a while. All my failures from years of changing majors/schools and doing poorly in science classes destroyed my GPA. I calculated that if I get straight As in the fall semester, I might be able to move it to 2.7. But I'm so worn out and have no financial aid left. Should I just graduate and focus on studying for the LSAT? Is there even a difference between these sub-3 GPAs to the admissions teams?

Long story short, I was a great student in high school but my GPA suffered in college as a result of getting sick for a couple semesters (it took a year and a half to get a diagnosis and treatment).

My LSAC gpa with my college courses that I took while I was in high school is a 3.0. Without them, my LSAC GPA is 2.67.

I just recently decided I wanted to go to law school, and just started studying for the LSAT. I think I can break into the 170s with some further studying, but probably won’t be able to do so until January based on my study plan.

I work full time, and have around ten years of experience as a paralegal since graduating. Because I am currently working full time, my study time is more limited than I would like it to be.

So, what is everyone’s opinion? Apply in the Spring with a higher LSAC gpa, or wait for the next cycle and apply with a lower GPA?

No, this isn’t satire like some of the other posts I’ve see recently. I wish it was.

My previous score, from April, is 161. I’m confident that I can get a higher score in September and I’d like to apply as early as possible. But I’m also currently on an upswing that is making me think I could further improve with a couple more months of study. Most of the schools that Im applying to have a section on the application which asks if you’re registered for a future exam and will place your application on hold until that new score is received. Would that be worth doing for what may end up just being a 1 or 2 point increase or is it better to get the application under review as early as possible? I know a lot of schools don’t actually start reviewing until later in the fall. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I used the 7Sage calculator and mine is 2.39, so much lower than I thought, even with my upward trend of straight As.

My top pick is St. Mary’s in San Antonio, I love the campus and everything about that school.

If i get a high enough LSAT (aiming for the 170s to make up for the GPA), would it help at all? I’m seriously considering delaying graduation (been trying to get a degree for 10+ years and am way over maximum timeframe) and paying out of pocket to take a bunch of classes.

LSAC reversed their decision regarding Dual Enrollment and GPA. I had an incredibly traumatic event happen in high school, so my dual enrollment transcript is a 2.0. I have been putting off applying for two years because I felt so discouraged seeing my CAS GPA, even though my degree GPA is good. After hearing about the change, I decided this was the year I was going to apply. I contacted LSAC, was told I had to pay to resubmit my transcripts, and got my GPA recalculated. I've been studying to retake the LSAT (previous score 160), and paid to register for the October test. I have my LORs and my essays. Everything felt like it fell into place. Now, my GPA just went down .4 points. No addendum is as compelling as that higher GPA. I feel like they just gave me whiplash but that whiplash is life changing and very expensive. I really don't want to have to wait another year.

Hello, if anyone could give me information. Do people end up in different states after Tulane? Like DC/NYC/PA?

Also, what are the political vibes there? Is it mainly right leaning or liberal? I would be a little worried about that. I’m from the east coast so never been to Louisiana before

Is the campus nice/area ok? Thanks

For any incoming 1Ls interested in BigLaw, I’m first-gen and genuinely had no idea how much of recruiting was stuff you’re somehow just expected to know lol.

These guides/trackers were up last year as well for 2025 and helped me understand the timeline, keep track of firms and applications, and figure out all the little recruiting things I didn’t know to even ask about. They helped me a ton through the process, so I figured I’d share the new recruiting cycle one here too in case they can help another first gen 1L :)

https://www.etsy.com/listing/4558248149/biglaw-recruiting-tracker-am-law-100

https://www.etsy.com/listing/4558252026/1l-biglaw-recruiting-guide-first-gen-law?ref=related-1&sr_prefetch=0&pf_from=listing&dd=1&logging_key=e04df3db694b0baaf68743781f34d566805780d7%3A4558252026

Planning on sending in my apps when they open next month. This morning I requested a fee waiver from all of my target schools, whether via email to admissions or a form on their website. Every single one I reached out to granted one. Great way to save hundreds of dollars!

For people applying this cycle where are you at in finishing application materials? Starting to rough draft personal statement and feel behind…

Hey everyone,

I’m an international applicant planning to apply to law school for the upcoming cycle. I'm sitting in the 160–165 LSAT band, and I'm currently finalizing my school target list.

My primary geographic focus is Ohio and neighboring Midwest states. My main priorities are finding schools that are non-predatory, have strong full-time, bar-required employment outcomes, and actually set up their grads for long-term success rather than just taking out-of-state tuition. 

I want to avoid schools with conditional scholarship traps, poor bar passage relative to state averages, or weak career services for non-US citizens.

(apologies in advance for this vent) just moved to a new state and into an old family home (old like built in the 1800s). place is filthy. dead flies all over the floor and dog hair stuck in every crevice. leaks in every sink, mold in the ac units, and orientation starts in two days. my cortisol levels are through the roof right now. i dont even have time to process what im gonna do about all this because i have homework to do for orientation, all while unpacking and hauling heavy furniture up stairs. i didnt receive my acceptance until july so everything has been so last minute. i want to tell my family im bailing on the home bc theres no way im going to have time to deal with all of it, but i also dont have time to find an apartment and up and move in the next few weeks as classes start. literally fml.

anybody else dealing with nightmare move in situations two days before orientation?

Hi, has anyone gotten off the waitlist from Scalia? Or has anyone called to know the status of incoming class?

Hi all,

I have a 3.87 GPA in STEM from a T20 undergraduate university. My LSAT is a 165 (waiting on my August retake). I have T2 softs (political appointment). I am an nURM. I consider my essays well written and have 2 letters, resume, etc.

Can you help me choose some schools that I should apply to with my current statistics and some that might be possible if my LSAT reaches the 167-169 range in August?

What’s about to go down? I’m kinda scared.

hi! if any of you are attending wayne state law, can you please share what you are planning on wearing to the first day of orientation? I saw on the schedule that we are doing a park clean up that day, so I am assuming we should not wear business casual? but I am afraid to come and be too dressed down. Please help!!!

I’m a 2013 Cooley graduate. Being that I’m still alive, this means I’ve experienced being a Cooley graduate for 13 years, and I’ve watched my fellow graduates navigate their careers for 13 years. And I am here to tell you that, YES, Cooley is in fact, that bad.

I’ve been a licensed attorney ever since graduating Cooley, and I still had to leave the legal profession because I could only make $40,000 per year. I have thrived in literally every other field I’ve tried, making substantially more money and being treated with respect I never received as an attorney. Just don’t mention you have a Cooley law degree and you can do anything…….

It makes me sad when I talk to Cooley grads still trying to make it in the dumpster of the legal profession. Attorneys with over a decade of experience struggling to make $50,000 per year in 2026 with $250,000 in student loans they’ll never pay off. Or the countless “forever law clerks” I know from Cooley. You do not need a JD to be a law clerk.

If your LSAT and GPA can only get you into Cooley or a similarly low ranked school, please do not go to one of these predatory institutions. Please go work at a law firm as a legal assistant for a year while you get your LSAT score up and figure out if law is actually what you want to do.

Thank you for attending my Ted Talk. I intend for this to be a series on Cooley and other Tier 4 law schools.