Back home less than a week. Husband has a date tonight. I'm not allowed to discuss any of my feelings about said date despite the fact that he and meta know i don't consent to this arrangement.
oh and i have to provide the childcare too. aren't i lucky?
Some posted a really good substack in r/polycritical about why they felt being poly was a net negative for society. Among the three reasons (most people can’t just stop being jealous, no standard norm, more people means more conflict) two resonated with me. I think these are just the main issues I have with it boiled down.
Ive talked about it in comments of other posts, but the fact that most people cannot just stop feeling jealousy, rejection, or some other kind of emotional pain or distress at their partner being with someone else. Especially when it’s not just sex, when love and the possibility of another full on relationship gets involved, it’s a lot worse.
>“ I have an emotion spreadsheet I’ve filled out nearly every day for the last 7 years. I'm pretty good at optimizing my emotions.
And that was my downfall. I just couldn’t admit to myself that I couldn’t change this part of me. After all, I’d read Ethical Slut and More Than Two and they’re full of stories saying “I used to be like you. But I just worked on being a more confident person and trusting my partner and did some CBT, and now I have compersion!” And that just seemed so much more enlightened. If they can do it, surely I can too. But the thing is, most people can’t.””
From the substack. The author was talking about how she had to deal with her emotions for the 7 years she was poly. A spreadsheet of emotions, therapy, books on top of books. She goes on to say she spent a lot of time crying alone when her partners were with other partners, and then feeling shame that she hadn’t worked on herself enough to feel “compersion.”
There is SO MUCH pressure and shaming to just ignore how much it hurts and act like normal emotional reactions to your partner being with someone else are unnatural problems that need to be worked through. As the quote says “I couldnt admit to myself that I couldn’t change this part of me.”
Most people can’t and they should not have to!
It pisses me off a lot how much the poly community tries to shame normal feelings of hurt and act like it’s progressive. They posture about love being equal and (I heard from my ex) “You’re enough! I will always come home to you!”
The substack also says it’s easy to promise not to leave when there’s nobody to leave to. But once there is someone else, watch it fall apart.
The second point is there’s no standard expectations or norms. Nobody has a set of expectations that extends across the community as a social norm. Everyone is doing it differently, sometimes with each person being different within a polycule. Sarah is open but her boyfriend has two other partners in a throuple but he wants to have sex outside of the three and one of them is mad he’s sleeping with Sarah and Sarah’s husband is seeing Lynn on the side but Lynn wants more time with him and...
Does anybody even fucking know what they’re doing on any given day?
I said this in my no true Scotsmen thread, but is always saying what poly isn’t, but can’t seem to define what it is, because everyone is doing something different. There’s just no baseline norms. And because there’s no baseline norms, there’s nothing to fall back on when you’re hurt. Just more bs about “working through your feelings.”
These two things really underline my main problems. Monogamy can come with its own challenges but at least there’s a baseline for normal expectations and you’re not told to shove down your feelings if your partner fucks someone else (in healthy spaces at leas.)
So I have spent this week trying to formulate an exit plan. I have been told by my therapist, psychiatrist, primary care doctor, country resource representative, and now multiple women's and DV shelters that being in a polyamorous relationship you don't want is not abuse. Basically I have been told that my situation is my own fault and there are no resources available to help me escape because I'm not in an abusive relationship.
So. Stop telling people in these relationships to go to shelters or doctors for help. They will be turned away. It will make their situation much worse psychologically.
A few months ago, I got out of a relationship with someone who love-bombed, then polybombed and gaslit me, and for a time, reading all of your posts and comments gave me laughter, strength and comfort. Thank you all for that!
One of the funniest images fitting my situation said: "Ladies, if you feel stupid for falling for his charm, remember Henry VIll chased Anne Boleyn for 7 years, defied the church to marry her, and still had her beheaded." I've been watching a period drama on exactly him, The Tudors, and one character says to another (not about him, but another philanderer), and I thought it fit here perfectly:
„You don’t know the meaning of the word [love]. You can 'love', perhaps for a year or a month, a day, even for an hour. And in that hour, I do believe you 'love' as well and deeply as any man. But after that hour, you 'love' not. You 'love' another and then another. Your 'love' is most generous where it is most hurtful.“
Not really a discussion per se. I'm making notes for a conversation I'm having with my poly partner. A few things come to mind. I feel like the polyamorous community uses a lot of language to be more palatable to a wider audience. What polyamory is at its base is a hedonistic structure whereby the self is satisfied only for the self, not for the greater good of the relationship. But because they don't want to look like sex-crazed heathens, they call it "limitless love" and an "alternative" relationship lifestyle. Oh yeah, and ethical lol. Ha.
While monogamy can certainly present as selfish within the individual people, the foundation of monogamy is making compromises for the greater good of the relationship unit as a whole - the sum being greater than the parts. Compromise is something that polyamorous people do not want to do whatsoever.
I 100% believe you can love more than one person. I love all my friends after all. In theory, I suppose I could love two men intimately at the same time. Can't say I've ever actually had that experience, and I have lots of experience with men. I can tell you, though, that if I found myself loving two different men in an intimate relationship kind of way, I would not call myself polyamorous. I would just be single. There's no possible way that, in the long term, either one of those relationships is going to sustain at any meaningful level. Polyamory has this weird obsession with all things being equal, but the fact of the matter is that all human relationships are completely hierarchical.
I have zero doubt that my partner would completely cheat on me and call it polyamory. There is no room in his worldview for anything outside the neat little box created by all the books and podcasts. It all looks great on paper, but when you actually practice it with real human beings, things get really fucking messy. This is why they need to have all their structures and vocabulary and rules and regulations, so everyone can conform. It is very cult-like in that way. Conform, conform, conform.
I have a friend who's monogamous, although she is now practicing ENM in her marriage in a way that feels almost like desperation. Her husband sprung the polyamory on her. He blows through their agreements, rules, and boundaries all the time, and yet she still stays with him. There are no kids, so I totally don't get it. As is frequently the case in heterosexual couples, she's amazing and fabulous and interesting, and he's kind of a toddler. And the polyamory makes him even more so.
I think what really makes me sad is that I think about the compromises and work I've done in my monogamous relationships, and I have experienced a lot of personal growth because of that. I look at my partner, who wants what he wants when he wants it with whoever he wants it with, and damned me or the relationship as a whole, and I see very little personal growth in him. We've been together for a while, and he has not changed. I have radically changed.
There really is zero pressure in polyamory because you can just walk away and get another partner. No one ever has to experience actual, real loss (death aside, obviously). No one has to do any actual conflict resolution unless you really desperately want to keep fucking this person. But you definitely don't have to make compromises, gaze at your own navel, or take ownership of your behavior that hurts other people. After all, if people are hurt, that's their own problem. Has nothing to do with you.
I did for a while kind of feel that maybe it was more of an orientation, and I now apologize for saying that anywhere. It's totally a choice. I've had crushes on people when I've been in a relationship, and guess what? I didn't act on them! OMG! How did I manage not to do that?!
Obviously, that means that monogamy is also a choice. I don't have a problem with that thought. Eating lima beans is also a choice, but you will never see me do it because it makes me sick to my stomach. If the idea of being monogamous makes you sick to your stomach, then by all means don't be monogamous. But don't try and say that monogamy is some kind of unnatural human state. That's just completely moronic.
I know polyamorous people will say that polyamory is so freaking hard, but it is absolutely not. Absolutely not compared to maintaining a healthy long-term monogamous relationship.