r/TheWire

▲ 15 r/TheWire

Prop Joe in Season 5

Rewatching. Prop Joe's behavior is nonsensical. He gives Marlo the Greek connection, introduces him to Levy. All the while Marlo is breaking apart the coop with Hungry Man and killing butchie and convincing Cheese to switch sides. Prop Joe really should have been smarter and just killed the top 3 in Marlos org. His aversion to violence became too extreme

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u/No_Log4570 — 4 hours ago
▲ 28 r/TheWire

the unique political perspective of the wire, and why it doesn’t jump the shark

TLDR at the bottom

I wrote this as a comment in a now deleted thread where OP was asking when they should “stop watching the wire.” They said something about how they usually stop watching shows when greed/profit-motive begins to impact the quality of the show, and wanted to stop watching the wire before that inevitable nose dive would come so they could quit while still ahead.

My comment:

I can kind of understand why someone would take this approach when watching long-form content. You’re right that profit motive ultimately does deteriorate art, and there are some famously bad examples of tv shows dropping off a cliff when they either sell-out and milk whatever magic recipe they had for as many extra seasons as the producers will allow, or rush the ending under pressure from those same moneyed interests.

The thing is, the wire isn’t like pretty much any other tv show. It was made under completely abnormal circumstances. HBO had just gotten off the ground and wasn’t looking to turn a profit. At no point during the Wire’s 5 season run did it make money, and it had almost no viewership. It flew completely under the radar, and was not incentivized to pander to its audience. HBO kept it around because they recognized its auteurist, intellectual quality would contribute to the prestige of their brand, and with the Sopranos and some of their other successful projects raking in the dough, they didn’t need it to succeed financially. HBO was a subscription model, and came as a package deal. So if a viewer bought the HBO package for the Sopranos, then the Wire didn’t need to put up numbers. In this regard, it is one of, if not the only prestige TV show in the history of the medium whose quality was not chiefly affected by the profit motives of the industry. Its consistent quality is a product of the simple fact that it was not financially incentivized to dumb down truths or toe ideological lines for mass appeal.

The backgrounds of the show’s writing staff are a reflection of these unique circumstances surrounding its production, as does the story they chose to tell. The Wire wasnt made by tv producers/writers. The writers room was populated by career journalists and novelists who worked in consultation with the very people the show is about. The script is a product of years of research and interviews with Baltimore police and the communities they influence; kids in public schools, bureaucrats on staff for public office, dockworkers, journalists, sex workers, incarcerated peoples, drug dealers and drug addicts. Those who live and work in the deteriorating public institutions of Baltimore, and those whose real lives are shaped by them, have their fingerprints all over the final product we see on screen. As a result, what you see is much closer to the material reality of their conditions than one can expect from your usual piece of network copaganda.

In an act of sheer poetry, it is actually because of these unique production conditions—of a once-in-generation loophole in the media system surrounding its creation—that the wire is maybe the only show to genuinely, meaningfully point fingers at the system itself. It is anomalous work of popular American cinema that fully endorses a materialist political view—that the problems of America itself are systemic and governed by material conditions rather than by the morality of individuals.

Normal shows are shackled by audience expectations and the pressure to succeed financially, and the ideas permeating their scripts are a product of that context. Even at their most rebellious and counter-cultural moments, TV show runners and screenwriters are compelled to uphold the rhetoric of the american dream and the political idealism underpinning it. Sometimes subtly, sometimes loudly, all mass media is ideologically self-propagating. A production ecosystem that continually puts out content harmful to its own interests is inherently doomed. In this sense, the Wire is this incredible exception in that it reveals truths harmful to the very financial system funding its creation. Namely, it is a show that is not interested in conveying the same tired narratives of rugged individualism, self-sacrifice, and good vs evil that so many other shows, even at their most rebellious and counter-culture, are ultimately compelled to uphold by an instinct for self-preservation. Where other shows might frame these ideas through a critical lens that appears challenging at first glance, the system self-selects for those narratives whose entertainment/financial value trumps their potential for political agitation, and as such, those that manage to get produced are the ones who frame these issues in ways that do not fundamentally run counter to the interests of those at the top. Since these false promises do not accurately reflect reality, the writers eventually run out of substantive content to paint over, and are forced to cash in their chips. This is where most shows eventually fall off, selling off artistic body parts for capital.

In this regard, and as a product of its unique position within the entertainment-production-complex, the Wire stands more or less alone as the only American tv show truly free to speak truth to power, and to have the writing staff to articulate that truth so skillfully. That it was not so tightly shackled by audience expectations or the pressure to succeed financially allowed it to reflect material reality without corporate oversight intervening. It does not pull punches, and it is not interested in giving the audience the neat, uplifting happily-ever-afters that boost Nielsen ratings. Rather, it accurately and truthfully lays out the ills of the American experiment that other shows normally must couch in many layers of toothless political idealism. It is a show about how systems fail despite good people inhabiting them, and how capitalist profit motives permeate and destroy every institution and every life those institutions touch. It is show where heroes fail to beat a game rigged against them, and villains are revealed to be villainous not by inherent malevolence, but by conformity.

Throughout its run, it does not “fall off” the way most shows do. If anything, with every season, every episode, it doggedly marches closer and closer to profound truths about American life at a macro scale. Some would say the final season is the “worst” of its run, but I doubt anyone would argue this is because season 5 showcases an actual dip in quality, or sells out to fan service to any degree. It still maintains the highest possible quality of storytelling and cinema throughout. Season 5 is its weakest because the clock began to run out on HBO’s ability to continue fostering that unique productive ecosystem, one allowing for a show that made no money and that nobody watched to stay on air. Unlike most shows faced with that scenario, the Wire doesn’t rush to tie up loose ends, instead opting to leave them as thought-provoking questions that linger on with the viewer past the final episode. Season 5 is the “worst” season because it’s clear that the show still had a great deal of stories left to tell; of truths left to shed light on, and you leave it feeling like you’re getting cut off in the middle of something rather than leaving at the end. Even the worst season of this show is still easily one of the most masterful seasons of television to have ever graced the screen.

So in sum, don’t stop watching the wire. Watch it all the way through. It gets better and better as it goes along. You won’t be disappointed by the influence of money upon the show because, other than the fact that there are only 5 seasons of it, that influence simply does not bear upon the wire in the same way it does for every other tv show ever made. It’s truly a one-of-one production.

If you’re interested in learning more about the history of how the show was made, there’s two very good books that detail the history of the production of the Wire, and how it compares to other shows at that time: All the Pieces Matter by Jonathan Abrams and Difficult Men: Behind the Scenes of a Creative Revolution by Brett Martin. I have a degree in film and wrote a couple papers about the Wire for school, and these were two of my main sources for those efforts. Likewise, if you’re interested in the understanding the role entertainment and media play in the maintenance of American class antagonisms, I recommend Inventing Reality by Michael Parenti.

Keep watching!! If you let it, the show can radically change the way you look at the world around you (speaking from experience).

TLDR: The Wire is able to genuinely critique the system in a uniquely incisive way because the show itself was produced under equally unique circumstances within the entertainment system. These same circumstances guard it from dropping off or jumping the shark the way so many other products of mass media under capitalism do.

u/voodoogenre — 9 hours ago
▲ 132 r/TheWire

Why is Marlo referred to as "Black" the first couple of times he's mentioned, then never again?

When BPD first starts looking at Marlo, they say "goes by the name of Black". He is called this 2-3x times after that, then it is never mentioned again.

All the pieces matter.. whats up with this?

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u/Puzzled_Tutor_6420 — 1 day ago

Snoop and Marlo

I wish Marlo and Snoop had more scenes together. I know Snoop is more so Chris’s protege but I still think it would’ve been interesting to see them have more talks and etc.

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u/AltruisticNail7229 — 14 hours ago

Why is Butchie so loyal?

In S5, Marlo has Chris and Snoop kill Butchie to get to Omar. Butchie refuses to give up Omar. Why?

He's Omar's bank and advisor, but beyond that why is he so loyal to Omar? Are they family? Is there something else?

Is Butchie gay and there's some LGBT loyalty going on?

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u/Many-Wasabi9141 — 1 day ago
▲ 20 r/TheWire

Why didn't sting take any action?

First time watcher, no spoilers after season 3 please, my understanding of the last scene between avon and bell was that when Avon asked a question which he would never, and bell noticed it, then when they are hugging, the extra taps and the long hugging along with the it's just business, I thought stringer understood he was being set up, so then why didn't he change the time or place, or had some protection, string was always extremely cautious, even a small chance of betrayal should have tipped off, but he saw major signs and reacted on them as they were out of ordinary but didn't take any action?

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u/Careful_Ant_4641 — 1 day ago
▲ 376 r/TheWire

Tommy Carcetti Made The Most Consequential Decision In The Entire Show, And It Wasn't Even Illegal or Corrupt

I'm sure this has already been discussed on this thread plenty of times, but I just finished my first ever watch of this series, and wow, it's definitely in my Top 5 All-Time.

That being said, nothing gutted me more in this show - with all the murders, robberies, corruption, etc. - than Carcetti's decision to not swallow his pride and take the governor's bail-out for education. I truly believe the guy's heart was in the right place, and he really could've been the one that started to turn the city around. I was apprehensive, but I found myself rooting for the guy.

Had he taken the governor's money for the school system, Daniels and Baltimore PD would have actually seen their New Day. Marlo and their crew would have been arrested - preventing countless murders, including Butchie. The schools may have had better funds to prevent kids like Duquan from ending up on the street. McNulty would have never had to fake murders and lose his job. Freamon would have been able keep following the money and potentially arrest Krawczyk and the others. Shit, McNulty may have even managed to stave off his cynicism instead of falling back on the boozing and whoring.

I know some of those scenarios are unlikely to have ever happened despite funding, but I wish he could have actually seen the consequences of that decision outside of his own office and political ambitions. That decision alone would have done more good for the city in less time than any decision he could have made in as the governor. It was an absolute let down, and by far the most harmful decision made in the entire show.

What an elegant television show.

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u/BigSquattyPottyGuy — 2 days ago
▲ 36 r/TheWire

Few Are Redeemed

Just finished my first watch through the whole series.

It's really striking how few people in the series are redeemed, especially those in the streets.

Bubbles, Cutty and Namond. That's about it for the street people. Everyone else ends up dead, in jail, or still part of the life.

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u/R5-D7 — 2 days ago
▲ 144 r/TheWire

Is officer Walker the biggest piece of Shit in the whole show?

He really is the stereotypical "guy who wants to Bully people, so he becomes a Police officer".

He takes Randy's Money, Takes Omar's ring, Steals from Bubbles when he's trying to report a theft and assault, and breaks Donut's fingers.

He's the worst example of a man without a code (in my opinion). At least players like Omar know who they are and act accordingly. Walker wants the respect that comes with being Police but doesn't do anything to earn it, he's basically just a stick up boy with a badge.

Can't think of a single character I like less.

(Edit: I mean the worst person who's just a piece of shit. If there's a worse word for them; murder, rapist peadophile, etc., then I'm not talking about them. Walker is a dickhead, just a pure, unadulterated dickhead)

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u/fastestman4704 — 3 days ago
▲ 37 r/TheWire

Ray Cole’s wake

Arguably my favorite scene in the show. Surprisingly tender and emotional for a side character we barely knew. It shows the empathy of the main characters while also displaying their lack of decorum in the binge drinking and body on the pool table. Just a perfect encapsulation of the Baltimore Po-lice that the show wants us to know. It’s the episode that makes me want to hit the bar and sing with the crew the most.

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u/maxfamousmacnchz — 2 days ago
▲ 73 r/TheWire

Was Snoop scared of Chris when he did what he did

When Chris killer bugs dad, was snoop scared or what. What emotion was she supposed to be giving off in that scene

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u/lake_june — 2 days ago
▲ 47 r/TheWire

Man I miss this kind of show

I finished binge-watching it, but damn, I wish the story had been longer. I really, really miss this kind of series, something that just can't be achieved by today's standards :(

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u/alvcin — 2 days ago
▲ 77 r/TheWire

I'm on my 15th+ rewatch and my heart hurts

So many amazing actors from this show have passed on, and what a loss to the world it is. I saw a scene with Lt. Daniels and Clay Davis and felt so sad. And then seeing scenes of Ziggy being Ziggy. All these incredible people are now no longer with us.

What a gift it is to be able to watch this show, over and over at that. What a gift it has been to be able to watch and appreciate these incredible actors.

Am also going to add Andre Braugher here because even if he wasn't in The Wire he was in Homicide and his passing was also an immense loss to the world.

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u/oranges214 — 2 days ago

Season 2 accent

I’m sorry i’m from baltimore and we do have a distinct accent similar to philly some of you may know that but i seriously can’t stand the accent that nicky and frank sabotka put on it’s like a butchered nyc accent still love the show and think it’s one of the greatest but the accents even mcnulty puts on that stupid accent too sometimes when there’s anything filmed here writers just say it’s a east coast city so put on a new york accent no one gives a shit. smh

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u/One_Cause4833 — 2 days ago
▲ 89 r/TheWire

Not sure if this has been covered here already but what exactly makes Omar so untouchable to the point where he can just walk through the streets without worrying about getting touched?

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u/Silly_North_5130 — 3 days ago

Question about season 1 episode 8

On my Nth rewatch right now and I think I just pulled something. For context, Jimmy was already told by his buddy in the FBI that Daniels is dirty a couple of episodes ago. Kima, Carver and Hock just pulled over the governor’s aid coming out of the 2-2-1 towers with $20k in cash.

Daniels is in a room with Burrell and IID and they are asking Daniels what’s the charge? And Daniels says civil forfeiture. The camera points directly at Burrell with that smug look like “again? Are you kidding me?”

Do you think that IID and Burrell are there because they’re all connected with Clay Davis and are on the take or do you think that IID and Burrell are there because they think Daniels wants to steal that money?

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u/Deathclaw_Hunter6969 — 2 days ago

Was season 5 inspired by the Zodiac case and Dave Tosci?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lUyxf2GyL0
I watched this video a few years ago and found it funny and very wire-esque how the lead detective Dave Tosci, as they state at 0:55, was reassigned to the pawn shop unit after posting fan letters posing as the killer. Not only do they mention the pawn shop unit, where both Tosci and Lester are sent as punishment. But the whole scandal of pretend letters from a serial killer draws the mind to McNulty's plot in season 5 and how he fakes letters from a serial killer, among other things, to try to keep funding for the BPD. This is similar to Tosci's reasoning for sending the phony letters aswell. Is this just a funny coincidence or possible inspiration? I at least assume that sending good police to the pawn shop unit is common practice and probably a coincidence but it is pretty interesting anyhow.

u/Pladrosian — 2 days ago