r/taoism

I remember reading an account of Jiang Ziya, who sat by the river without a hook on his fishing line, believing that a fish would come to him in its own time. This is a surprising amount of faith in destiny. The Liezi also affirms this perspective of destiny.

So suppose there are 5 men who sow crops in the same way. 4 men have a bountiful harvest while one man has a failed harvest. This is by Heaven's decree?

Suppose there are 5 men with the same resume. They send out their resume. 4 of the men receive job offers while 1 is ignored by everyone. This is by Heaven's decree?

Please allow me to understand better. All my life, I have been under the impression that success comes from a mixture of genetic determinism (good looks), willpower and skill. But I have been questioning this for a while as I have seen those:

• without any skill succeed in a certain endeavour,
• those who apply no effort succeed,
• those who are ugly succeed, etc.

And there are some who seem 'cursed', whereby no matter what they do, or how they approach the subject, they inevitably fail when by their superior skill or just numerical probability, they should have succeeded by now. But something is preventing the door being opened.

It's incomprehensible, unless the traditional chinese doctrine of divine providence by the mandate of Heaven is believed, which I find it hard to convince myself of, as why would Heaven bestow so much favour on the ungrateful, evil and those who use the blessings for evil.

I recently took a dive into Daoism and Atleast the basics I know I find quite interesting, I’d like to know more and maybe some good starting practices to get into.

Any texts or things to recommend aside from the Tap Te Ching?

Are you interested in Chinese fortune-telling / divination?

I feel like in English-speaking spaces, most people only know the I Ching, or maybe Chinese zodiac animals.

But in Chinese-speaking communities, there are actually a lot of different systems and schools. They don’t all do the same thing.

This is my rough map, so correct me if I’m missing anything.

For asking about specific things, there is Liu Yao (六爻).

Liu Yao (六爻) is usually used when you have a clear question, like:

“Will I hear back from this person?”
“Will this job interview go well?”
“Should I keep waiting?”
“Can this project move forward?”

So it’s more about one situation or one event, not your whole life path.

Then there is Xiao Liu Ren (小六壬), which is probaly one of the simplest systems for beginners.

It has six basic signs:

Da’an (大安) = stable / calm
Liulian (留连) = delay / stuck
Suxi (速喜) = fast good news
Chikou (赤口) = conflict / arguments
Xiaoji (小吉) = small luck
Kongwang (空亡) = empty / unclear

It’s used for quick short-term questions. Not like “what is my destiny,” more like “is this thing moving soon?” or “should I act today?”

That’s why I think Xiao Liu Ren (小六壬) is actually a pretty good entry point for people who are new to Chinese divination.

Then BaZi (八字) and Zi Wei Dou Shu (紫微斗数) are more like natal chart systems.

BaZi (八字), also called Four Pillars, uses your birth year, month, day, and hour. It looks at your life structure, personality, timing, career tendencies, relationship patterns, etc.

Zi Wei Dou Shu (紫微斗数) also uses birth data, but it feels more like a big life map with different palaces for career, relationships, money, family, health, travel, and so on.

So to me, BaZi (八字) and Zi Wei Dou Shu (紫微斗数) are kind of in the same “life chart” category. They’re not mainly for quick questions. They’re more for reading a person’s overall pattern.

And then at the higher / more advanced level, there are systems like Da Liu Ren (大六壬), Qi Men Dun Jia (奇门遁甲), and Tai Yi Shen Shu (太乙神数).

These are much more complex.

Da Liu Ren (大六壬) is a very advanced event-divination system.
Qi Men Dun Jia (奇门遁甲) is often used for strategy, timing, direction, decision-making, business, movement, and complex situations.
Tai Yi Shen Shu (太乙神数) is even more rare, and from what I understand, it was historically used more for big-picture timing, state-level events, or larger cycles.

But honestly, people who can really read these well are pretty rare.

A lot of people may talk about Qi Men (奇门) or Da Liu Ren (大六壬) online, but actually mastering them is a totally different thing.

So my rough structure is:

Xiao Liu Ren (小六壬) = easiest quick divination
Liu Yao (六爻) = specific event/question divination
BaZi (八字) / Zi Wei Dou Shu (紫微斗数) = life chart / natal chart systems
Da Liu Ren (大六壬) / Qi Men Dun Jia (奇门遁甲) / Tai Yi Shen Shu (太乙神数) = advanced classical systems, but real experts are rare

I’m still learning how to explain these in English, but I think this framework makes more sense than putting all “Chinese divination” into one box.

If people are interested, I can share some very basic Xiao Liu Ren (小六壬) methods, simple BaZi (八字) reading ideas, or maybe even some Da Liu Ren (大六壬) case examples later.

Curious if anyone here has studied any of these besides the I Ching?

So many abusers, users, weirdos, stalkers, perverts, pedos…. I swear to god the only thing im guilty of on this list is maybe being a little bit of a weirdo but that’s it. The amount of times ive been advanced sexually in a degrading and vain way is sickening. I don’t want to live in the same world as these creeps. How do I know you’re not lying? How do you know I’m not?? I hate having to rely this much on trust I just wish I could go back before that guy used me for his desires then treated me like nothing he was so mean to me afterwards I felt disgusting

Maybe a paradoxical question by taoism terms but do you agree?

There was a man in bazaars who was feeling with pride over his silky and shiny, hair and flaunting his beauty to the person next to him. Telling him how great and superior he feels in this. His nose always points high. Even forgetting the ground he is standing, looking only for men to feel the silkiness of hair.

Then there comes a comedian who said he has seen many men with more silky hair than yours.

It is so silky that light bends with them. And so soft that hands and objects feel no resistance.

He proud man was shocked who it is where it is. I haven't seen any of them earlier.

Then he pointed him to a bald fisher man selling fishes. With hair as silky then light bends through them unable to reflect and reveal them and so soft no resistance can be felt by anything. Hence people can't even know whether it is there or not.

Does it exist?

Another question that will probably be pretty much ignored again, or, invite callous smackdowns lol But I care not. Why should Anyone be afraid to ask among our peers and seniors? It is a way to learn. So here goes another one that, along my path, seems to trip me up and keep me "inmyownwei"... haaa!:

Yes, the Tao is All, is everything we can and can't know. It doesn't judge, right, it just IS. Yin and Yang, and all that.

And judgement... according to Who, or What, anyway? Probably none of that in Tao teachings.

I certainly try not to judge. But being human, there are reactive feelings when certain things happen... in the world, to my neighbors, among friends, family, ALL Beings.

Is there no moral concept at all?

I don't believe in "karma". The parts about allowing other Beings to suffer or you will interfere with their karma etc etc... I just can't.

But is there no cosmic retribution for, for instance, wanton cruelty, destruction?

No sense that what is good ( again, yes, according to Who, or What? ) should prevail?

And where would this goodness prevail at all anyway?

Does it all just play out as it will, regardless of anything, onward, forever? A big empty blank where hope and mercy and goodness exists in other belief systems?

• typo edits!

This is a comment I wrote under another post, but it explains my situation well:

Hey, 29M, I had crippling social anxiety most of my life I remember, took meds for a while, and improved my anxiety a lot, I am quite good without meds nowadays.

Never had a relationship, found comfort in self harming, addictive cheap dopamine habits, like binge eating, porn and scrolling, did things I regret. No social life, there are opportnities, but if I go there I feel uncomfortable and out of palce, it's not worth it.

Relatively good job, regarding money and the environment (colleagues, company culture), I don't care about it, many times it's hard to not fall asleep, or to pay attention, but it makes sense to stick to it.

I just bought an apartment, I have to pay mortgage for a long time, I think it's a good investment in the long run, better than paying rent.

BTW I was diagnosed with adhd as an adult, who knows what else I have (maybe autism and cognitive disengagement syndrome, at least I have many symptoms....the 2nd one is not very well known, I think it's not even an official mental disorder, but it sucks). I took ritalin for a while, gave my more anxiety so I stopped, and it didn't help that much anyways.

I feel like a fuckup who can appear as someone not a complete fuckup, or even someone doing good.

I am good looking, very athletic, but I have no dating life, I suck at social skills, despite being around people, talking to different people a lot due to my job, but my communication doesn't really get better, at least I don't feel it.

Some days I feel very positive about the future, other times I feel hopeless, and I am confused if I am like the miner who is very close to the diamond (but doesn't see it), or the one who thinks it's very close but it's not there.

I think of talking to a psychologyst but I am afraid my brain is too complicated for any expert to really understand and help, and I am tired of people telling me things like "you should meditate", or "use this or that method", I know it's coming from a good place, but I heard so many of these psychological methods for anxiety, adhd, whatever, they just don't work, or barely.

For me I think it was growing up in a dogmatic Christian sect and just never feeling at home with that kind of world view. The ambiguity of Taoism is a much more natural fit. I enjoy coming to my own conclusions about what the Dao is and not worrying if I have the “correct” view.

I'm someone who has a very traumatic childhood background. Not many good things graced my life in contrast to all the negativity. As an amateur in learning about Taosim, it doesn't quite make sense to me where violence and trauma reside in it (are they yin or yang? both? neither?), and it troubles me to think that the existence of suffering and abusers are "necessary" or even good by way of creating contrast for peace to exist. It's rough trying to make sense of my experiences like this.

My current hypothesis is that due to the presence of all the traumatic energy, one must create a balance with some ratio of peaceful energy, and that is the only way that suffering becomes acceptable—by balancing it out with the opposing energy force. But when one energy force (suffering) is so large that it's very difficult to balance it well, what does Taoism see in that? How does something so intensely negative just become "acceptable", and is "good vs. bad/acceptable vs. unacceptable" even a part of the picture in the first place?

18M I am new to this subreddit, and I guess I wanna get some stuff off my chest. I feel like life, in a way, feels a bit empty but in a good way. I can accept not getting advantages others gets, and losing all hope is like freedom. I have had some people honestly ask me how I've stayed so calm when it comes to being in stressful situations a bit, I do still get stressed in some but overall but people have said that I am very carefree in a way (I couldn't think of a good word.) For some reason when I get insulted, I don't really ever take it personally and I rather laugh about it a bit, but not in a way where I keep coming back to be laughed at, I don't think about what somebody has said to me, I can shave my head and go out in public and not even care. I feel like going everyday to day feels the same a bit, nothing new and that's good (in a way) I've found myself just honestly wanting to drive a lot to nowhere and somewhere at the same time. It's a bit of a hard feeling to explain, but I feel as if I've found my meaning to life. I'm not gonna pretend I'm special or anything, some hotshot from a town or something. Another thing is that I've never really had any issue with getting mad at anybody tbh, I've always been able to move on from stuff. I feel a bit more self aware than most people I think? I don't want to say that with certainty because I don't wanna put myself on a pedestal, but people around me tend to get offended, mad, or disappointed when something happens. I do a lot of self reflecting, I honestly wonder what is life and what is beyond.. anyways, that's just what I wanted to say.

Edit: I suddenly think of things to say but honestly, I feel like I can find myself happy with bare minimums and a quiet life overall

There is a passage attributed to Zhang Sanfeng that I think more people should know about:

神炁相守，息息相依，河車之路通矣。功夫到此，築基之效，已得一半矣。

Spirit and qi guard one another; breath by breath they depend on one another, and the path of the River Chariot opens. When the work has reached this point, the effect of laying the foundation is only half attained.

The turning of the orbit, the thing many schools present as the goal of the foundation, is described here as the halfway mark. Everything before it is one half. Everything after it, the further filling, stabilising, and consolidating, is the other.

The Taiyi jinhua zongzhi says something similar about the famous hundred days:

百日立基，非百日也。

To establish the foundation in a hundred days is not a matter of a literal hundred days.

None of this is obscure. It is in the texts. It just does not get quoted very often because it is not what people want to hear.

Were you told this when you started, does it even matter?

I am new to Taoism and I just started reading Tao Te Ching yesterday and as soon as I read the very first line a question came up on my mind this is very obvious "What is Tao?" But as the first line says "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao" so it appears to me that language fails to capture the meaning of Tao and we cannot define it using any language. So then how do we understand Tao can we only feel it? It also appears to me that Tao is continuous since it is nameless and eternal and names give birth to discrete things. So does understanding Tao means understanding the continuous nature of reality and camouflaging in this continuous reality? Or can we never really understand Tao? I also have another question that is "Is Tao totally independent of everything? Or is it dependent on anything too like everything else in the universe is interdependent?"

I would like to hear from you all and I would like to hear comments on my interpretation of Tao Te Ching by you all. I have just read chapter 1 and am still trying to form interpretations and study it. Please share any opinions you have.

I would like to learn about taoism and read the primary texts there are alot of different writings in the canon of taoism and far too many translations I am honestly not really sure were to start. I would happy to hear recommendations. I prefer hardcover. If it is possible, I would rather have these texts compiled together rather than each work separated into different volumes.

I was born in a 3rd world Islamic Middle Eastern country.

During my 22 years of living, I committed a lot of mistakes. In summer 2017, I deleted the YouTube channel where I had the filmed videos by me of my and my grandmas pets. Although I downloaded the vids before deleting, because I didn’t store them elsewhere when I factory reset my pc at fall of 2017 all the videos were gone.

Also in summer 2017 I released my pets at a human made pond so I couldn’t refilm the videos.

I also broke my ankle when I fell from scooter in 2024, I also accidentally broke my hard drive in 2025 that had a lot of media of my family and memories, I chose engineering in 2022 when I went to university and I hate it, we have giant class load of like 10-11 classes per semester, I went to exchange program and due to it I can’t graduate this year because I couldn’t take enough credits.

Whenever I see videos on YouTube uploaded 10 years ago, my heart aches since I could’ve had videos that long ago too but I was a compulsive 13 year old idiot.

Also I am a single child and my family micromanages me a lot. They didn’t let me convert to Christianity in 2023 and for 3 years I wasted my time not getting baptised. I am still dependent on them.

Now I am 22, I have no job, no wife (never even had a girlfriend) no achievements, can’t attend my religion, no respectability. My friends don’t even want to meet up much and when they do, they picked the time where I am having finals exams. So I meet with my friends 1-3 times a year.

Only thing I have is good language skills (I know 4 alphabets I can read and write in Ottoman Turkish but I wish I never learnt it, it’s useless and occupies my brain for nothing I have no use for it it’s a waste of space) I have good English skills and I know a tiny bit of Greek. I also know history and theology a lot.

What do I do?

PS: I have ADHD and GAD if its important.