I'm sure most, if not all, of us on this subreddit have seen fan timelines that use Hyrule Warriors as a key piece that converges all timelines together and restores the Zelda franchise to a unified timeline model. But ignoring the parts of HW that make it difficult to take as canon and the other obvious potential issues with the theory, there's still one issue with this model that I've never seen touched upon, and it's the fact that HW arguably creates anywhere between three (four in Legends/Definitive Edition) and an infinite number of splits in its own right. By including HW in a timeline, we're introducing more splits into the timeline, not fewer.

HW's back story tells us that at some point in the past, a hero defeated Ganon and split Ganon's soul into four pieces. One was left in the present, guarded by the powers of the Master Sword and the Temple in which the blade was laid to rest. And the other three were placed at various points in the past.

The problem with this is that if they were placed in the past, that means they should still be around in the present. In other words, imagine you buy an apple. Then you go back in time three days and decide to hide that apple in your refrigerator. When you travel back to the present, that apple is still going to be in your refrigerator, just three days older than it should be (assuming no one in your house came by and ate it within those three days). If nothing happened to Ganon's soul fragments between OoT/TP/SS and HW, all of those soul fragments would still exist in the world of HW. And HW shows us that those soul fragments just all being present at the same time in HW was enough to break the seals on them.

So that implies that the soul fragments weren't just hidden in the past. They must have been hidden in alternate timelines. Which likely means that placing those soul fragments in their respective eras created branches in each of those eras. On top of that, the events of HW pull characters from those eras, have them experience the events of HW, and then return them to their respective eras without wiping their memories of what happened in HW or resetting things so that their travel to the HW era wouldn't affect their own eras. As such, HW basically causes the following:

OoT era: A fragment of Ganon's soul is hidden in the Water Temple. Darunia is brainwashed into kidnapping an adult Ruto (so this is probably happening while the Hero of Time is still asleep in the Sacred Realm). Monsters are pouring out of the Water Temple. Darunia is returned to his rightful mind, Ruto is freed, the monsters are stopped, Ganon's soul fragment escapes, Darunia and Ruto fight against Cia and eventually HW Ganondorf, and then they return to their own time.

TP era: A fragment of Ganon's soul is hidden in the Palace of Twilight in the Twilight Realm. Cia transforms Midna into an imp form, Zant is made to work for Cia, the Twilight Realm begins to spread across Hyrule (so this must be near the beginning of TP since Midna has only just been transformed and hasn't met Link yet, which likely means TP Ganondorf is still imprisoned in the Twilight Realm, but maybe he has made contact with Zant at this point since Zant decided to challenge Midna through force unless Zant got his powers from Cia instead of Ganondorf this time (though Cia's Tale makes that questionable)), somehow Agitha knows about the Twilight Realm despite it and its effects being invisible to most Hylians in TP, Agitha and Midna are recruited to fight against Cia and eventually HW Ganondorf, and then they return to their time, Midna apparently still stuck in her imp form (unless Cia becoming good again at the end of the game caused her spell to be undone off-screen), and Zant dead, which means unless TP Ganondorf is somehow able to escape the Twilight Realm because of the events of HW, the events of TP aren't really going to happen now in this timeline.

SS era: A fragment of Ganon's soul is hidden in the Sealed Temple. SS Impa is nowhere in sight, so it's unclear what happened to her. The Goddess Sword is still in its pedestal with Fi, so the events of present SS haven't happened yet (weirdly though, the Groosenator is present at the Sealed Temple; maybe Hylia told Impa to build it since the events of HW may now prevent him from coming to the surface?). Ghirahim somehow makes it to Skyloft (maybe with Cia's help if Cia's Tale is a separate timeline itself; otherwise we have no explanation for how he made it up there). HW Link and Fi save Skyloft (SS Link isn't mentioned, so it's unclear how long before the events of SS this event is happening; if this isn't happening almost immediately after Hylia sealed Demise, then it arguably breaks the SS time loop). Ghirahim escapes to the Sealed Grounds and releases the Imprisoned. The Imprisoned is defeated rather than being resealed, and Ghirahim is recruited by Cia. Fi is recruited, experiences HW, and fights against Cia and HW Ganondorf before returning to the SS era. With Ghirahim defeated before Link finds the Master Sword, presumably SS Zelda will have a much easier passage to being found by Impa, recovering her Hylia memories, and wishing on the Triforce (maybe to prevent Demise from ever reincarnating). But it's unclear if the Master Sword would be forged in this timeline since the Gate of Time doesn't need to be activated. (Interestingly, it's actually active during HW.)

TWW era: Tetra is on Windfall Island while her crew apparently isn't since we're told the dimensional event separated her from her crew, but it pulled the entire Windfall Island through. This never happens in or after TWW, so this split presumably takes place shortly before TWW. Tetra ends up meeting Daphnes early, meets HW Link and Zelda, and the Helmaroc King and a Phantom Ganon are destroyed before Tetra and Daphnes return home. Presumably without the Helmaroc King pre-TWW, TWW Ganondorf has a much harder time finding pieces of the Triforce. Aryll likely doesn't get kidnapped. And Tetra and Daphnes (and Link if they go recruit him) likely have a much greater amount of time to prepare to fight TWW Ganondorf than they did in TWW.

Cia's Tale is billed as if it's the unseen adventure Cia went on prior to and during HW, but a lot of the details don't quite match. We see that Midna is already an imp when Cia first meets her in Cia's Tale. (We also see Agitha in the Palace of Twilight without her being turned into a spirit somehow.) We see that Ghirahim managed to summon the Imprisoned to Skyloft when Cia goes there to recruit him, and the Imprisoned ends up being defeated in Skyloft. So I'm not sure whether to approach this as an embellishment of what actually happened, completely non-canon to HW, or a separate iteration of HW.

As to that last point, consider that if the timeline leads to HW, any split in the past could also lead to the events of a different HW. So since HW Sheik remembers the era of the Hero of Time as history, we can assume that HW at least takes place after it. But when you look at what the events of HW may have changed about the OoT era, there aren't many substantial changes. Maybe Darunia and Ruto now rise up against OoT Ganondorf because they have extra fighting experience, but if that doesn't happen, their new timeline branch will inevitably lead to another HW, which will create another OoT branch which will lead to another HW which will create another OoT branch, ad infinitum.

---

So all of that to say, I have questions:

1. If HW did indeed create at least four branches in the timeline, what do the downstream futures of those branches look like in your opinion? How do the HW changes affect or prevent the events of later games that would have fallen after those changed games in their original timelines?

2. Is there any way to interpret HW (other than simply dismissing it as illogical or non-canon) in a way that realistically doesn't result in infinite timeline branches?

3. What is Cia's Tale since it doesn't line up with the main game on its face? Is it an embellishment? Non-canon to HW? Another timeline's version of HW? Or are we to assume that the differences can be explained away? Midna incorrectly assumes that Cia is responsible for her imp transformation, and the Imprisoned was able to be killed twice in a short timespan, once in Skyloft and once in the Sealed Grounds?

4. What is the darkness that is coming out of the Master Sword's pedestal at the end of the game? We know that it's separate from Ganon because it reaches out from the pedestal to break the seal on the fourth piece of Ganon's soul. I know this question has nothing to do with the rest of the post, but this has always bothered me about the game, so I'm curious about people's interpretation.

5. If it took the entire Triforce to merge the OoT/TP/SS eras with Hyrule, how was Phantom Ganon able to merge TWW with HW Hyrule with just the Triforce of Power? How did Phantom Ganon end up in HW Hyrule and in possession of Cia's body? I guess it's possible that the Gates of Souls opened up throughout many different eras, which is why Majora's Mask Skull Kid and Termina's moon are also able to appear in the story despite that era not specifically being pulled in. So maybe he just came through on his own, helped out behind-the-scenes, and then hid until HW Ganondorf's defeat.

I know it's a bit foolhardy to try to make sense of a game whose story clearly wasn't written to make complete sense, but I'm interested to see how well we can do to make it functional.

For the past few days I've been posted some strange theories about Zelda lore.

Most of them are pretty much "X became X" or "X is the same as X", which some of you don't like. So, now I'm gong to take a break and ask if there are any theories or headcanon about the lore you want to share?

I'll start.

Leviathans reproduce by dreaming, much like Beholders from D&D. The Wind Fish has the power to created realistic worlds by dreaming. On rare occasions, these dreams become so vivid, it produces a new real leviathan.

P.S. The Leviathan thing was going to be a whole post. But I realised there's not enough evidence to make it more then a headcanon. So, I just made it a post saying "This is my bizarre headcanon. You can ignore it if you want. But you can tell me yours" post.

We know that (almost) all time travel in the LoZ series is either a closed loop or a dynamic single timeline. Examples of this include MM, SS, TotK, and even the majority of OoT. There is only one time when time travel has resulted in a timeline split: the ending of OoT. There have been fan theories about why this happened before, but I have a new one (I think)

In WW we learn that the act of Link traveling back in time while in possession of the Triforce of Courage, causes it to split into 8 pieces. So this act was clearly significant if it was powerful enough to break apart a Triforce piece. I know that Link travelled back and forth throughout OoT while technically in possession of the Triforce piece, but it seems like only this last time was what caused the piece to break apart. It seems likely that it was because the piece was dormant before then

Other items seem to be fine travelling through time, but there is some sort of issue with travelling through time with a Triforce piece. Throughout the series history, this is the only time that something like this has happened, and it's also the only time that a timeline branch has been created. So my theory is that the act of Link travelling back in time with an active Triforce piece caused a reaction that not only split the Triforce piece, but also split the timeline.

Also, people have long speculated that the three timelines somehow were associated with the three parts of the Triforce. So maybe this act caused the timeline to split into three, not just into two. This could explain why there isn't a new timeline created every time Link is defeated. This part is harder to back up with evidence then the rest of it though.

What are your thoughts?

This is just fun speculation, so I'm not proposing anything final! Just having fun speculating.

I once thought the Zonai were the interlopers who became the Twil. I put that idea aside for long, but started revisiting it recently. And it may perhaps have merit?

Because what got me thinking, was when Rauru talks about the downfall of the Zonai in AoI. He doesn't just say the forbidden constructs brought on the downfall of the Zonai, but that they brought on chaos "upon the world" - not a direct quote, but basically that the world was affected, thus implying that it wasn't just the Zonai in the heavens. And that made me think:

Could the Interloper War, and the downfall of the Zonai, be the very same event? We know the Forbidden Constructs were made by the Zonai - possibly Zonai who still lived in the Depths, as the Depths is where the chamber of these constructs are found. And for the Constructs to create such a calamity, it seems like they need to be infused with dark magic, as we see Ganondorf do. Perhaps a faction of the Zonai turned to the dark side, created these constructs for the sake of power, and this became the Interloper War? Where the "Interlopers" were evil Zonai, coming with their dark magic and weapons, that both brought the Zonai almost to extinction and created a war on the surface?

The reason I'm considering this at all instead of seing them as two completely seperate events, is the insanely many similarities between the Zonai and Twili.

The Fused Shadow is filled with swirls, including the "horns" that have the same swirly edge as we see tons of Zonai constructions and achitecture have. The sides of the Fused Shadow have three "eye"-shaped cirlces stacked on top of each other, just like the sides of the friendly Zonai constructs have. And, the backside of the Fused Shadow has a big eyeball with three eye lashes on top, just like the Zonai's 3rd eye. The Twili also use green magic just like the Zonai, have anti-grav technology/magic just like the Zonai, and Zant's throne room is both filled with the same kind of swirl-architecture as Zonai constructions have, and Zant's throne has the same Zonai/Sheikah eye on it.

And with that perspective, I simply found it interesting how Rauru described the forbidden construct's damage to be a chaos "onto the world", and not just to the Zonai tribe in the sky, and thus wanted to revisit this idea of their connections, and the idea that the Interlopers may have been the very same Zonai who made the forbidden constructs and made these constructs almost whipe out the Zonai race as a whole.

I'm replaying OoT right now, and I had this stray thought that winters must really suck for the Kokiri...which made me wonder how the Zora deal with the winter...which made me think wait, does Hyrule even have winters?

I'm trying to recall any times we've seen Hyrule in any seasons other than "late spring/early summer", or even had other seasons referenced at all, and I'm coming up short. All I can think of is the autumnal trees in Akkala (which seem to just be their regular colors) and the Frozen Hyrule stage in FSA (which may be unnatural? been awhile since I played it). Then of course there's Oracle of Seasons, but that game doesn't take place in Hyrule. Can anyone else think of anything? Edited to add: The fishing hole in TP! Totally forgot about it...

There's some evidence pointing away from Hyrule having regular seasons actually, like how when it becomes The Great Sea, the climate seems to be sub-tropical, with palm trees found across the whole map (Interestingly, Windfall Island has pine trees instead?)

There's also the presence of the Gerudo Desert to the west of Hyrule. Now obviously this is a magical fantasy world, but in real life most deserts form within a certain range of the equator, so Hyrule must be as well. And seasonal differences become less and less as you approach the equator, so...

I always wonder if anyone on the Zelda team has ever thought of these things, lol. Maybe not, but it is kind of surprising that Hyrule has existed as a fictional world for 40 years now and yet it's never been portrayed in fall or winter.

I'm 37 years old, and growing up, Ocarina of Time (OOT) was by far the coolest/greatest video game I'd ever played. That includes games I played later, like Call of Duty in college on PS3. Don't get me wrong—online COD is incredible, but the overall storyline and world of OOT are still unmatched in my opinion.

I'm not a hardcore gamer, so I never played Breath of the Wild or many of the other games that consistently rank near the top of the "greatest games of all time" lists. I did play Red Dead Redemption 2, which is also frequently ranked very highly. RDR2 was a great game, and obviously its graphics and physics are on another level compared with OOT. But that's not really what I'm talking about when I compare the two.

I'm talking about the overall game—the story, world-building, progression, interconnectedness, etc. Obviously, modern graphics and physics can enhance a game tremendously, but I don't think they automatically make a game better. For example, no matter how brilliant the writing is, I don't think a 2D Zelda game could ever have the same overall impact as a 3D Zelda game. But conversely, if the storyline and world-building of a game are inferior to OOT, I don't think better graphics and physics can make up the difference.

That's basically how I felt playing RDR2. It was an incredible game, but in my mind, it didn't come close to OOT.

Over the past week or so, I watched a ~10-hour video of someone playing through OOT on YouTube. I honestly wondered if maybe I was just looking back at it through the eyes of a kid and remembering it as being better than it actually was.

But man...no. It really was that amazing.

You have the eight main dungeons, but there's SO much happening in between. There are essentially "mini-levels." You have to actually discover and figure out how to access the temples. The Ocarina itself is woven into the entire game. The way everything connects and builds on what came before is just incredible.

So that's the question I'm hoping gaming enthusiasts can answer:

Are there any games released since OOT that are truly on the same level of greatness?

I'm not trying to be a homer for my childhood or my generation. If there's a game that surpasses OOT, then it is what it is. I'm genuinely curious whether there are games out there that I haven't played that can give me that same feeling.

I'd really like an objective perspective from people who have played a lot more games than I have. What games, if any, do you think are genuinely in the same tier as Ocarina of Time?

Some things I've noted down that may be of help in the speculation:

• In Master Works, the bright pristine stone material used in the Zonai structures in the Depths and skies are referred to as "Type 1" architecture, while the rougher, darker, browner and more "moldy" stone architecture is known as "Type 2". Not only is the materials between the two types different, but the motifs and style is different too, where Type 1 has a more "clean" alien style with less details and with Zonai writings on them, while Type 2 structures often have pillar and arch-like textures as well as a seemingly bigger focus on swirls (like the round swirl type seen on the Type 2 owl statues)
• The Type 2 structures are almost exclusively found on the surface; either in the Zonai ruins and surrounding ruins in Faron, or in Typhlo Ruins, or other specific places like certain underground caves - and of course in the 3 mazes. But interestingly, the only place where this type is used in the skies and Depths is also in these mazes. It seems like the mazes in the Depths and surface are physically connected, while the ones in the sky used to be connected to the part of the maze on the surface, but this in-between section of them were most likely destroyed at one point as there are floating debris between them. So the mazes were definitely made as huge, connected structures, stretching from the Depths all the way to the skies
• On the mazes in the sky, the entrance platforms use the Type 1 aestethics, and not the Type 2 one like the rest of the maze.
• We don't get any proper explaination of the Type 2 aesthetic in Master Works, but there are suggestions and theories presented. At one point, the book theorizes that these Type 2 surface ruins were built before the Zonai ascended to the skies, and that other races have put their own touch on the ruins of the countless years, essentially building new ruins over/around the old Zonai ruins (as we can see hints of during Mineru's quest, where we see some Type 2 ruins destroyed, revealed Type 1 ruins inside).
• Just a few pages later, however, the book seems to suggest that the ruins were made by those "following faith/appreciation of the Zonai tribe". Not sure if this means they were made by people appreciating the Zonai while they still walked on the surface (as suggested above) or if they were made after the Zonai were gone, which would be a different theory from the one suggested above. But I take it as the Type 2 ruins we see were additions to the original Type 1 ruins, done by people in faith of the Zonai after they ascended to the skies, which is in line with the theory above. It would also make sense, as the circular swirl symbol on the Type 2 owl statues is the same as the ones on the Sandship doors in Skyward Sword.
• It's unclear if it still is canon or not, but in TOTK's original teaser trailer, we saw the entrance to the temple underneath Hyrule Castle - and it actually uses Type 2 aesthetics, just like the surface ruins. Now again, this could just be how all Zonai architecture was originally supposed to look in TOTK before they changed it to the white, clean Type 1 we see in the final game, and thus the teaser's entrance design is outdated. And since we never actually enter this place in-game, because we skip it in the beginning of the game and it's destroyed after the Upheaval, there's no telling what the final version of this entrance looks like. But in Master Works, there's concept art of both this entrance and the corridors inside... and the corridors inside use the new, Type 1 aesthetics, while the temple entrance still uses Type 2 aesthetics... So what could this imply?
• The voice speaking to you first of all is definitely a Zonai, as the voice-sound and text-visuals are all Zonai, plus you activate Zonai terminals to make them talk. They seem to refer to themselves as the "Ruler of Dragons, Owls and Boars", and in the sky versions, they use the phrase "You who set foot in MY labyrinth", indicating that these labyrinths were indeed built by some kind of Zonai.

And that all begs some questions. If the Labyrinths were made by someone of the Zonai, and the Type 2 ruins were made/added on by those worshipping the Zonai or honoring the Zonai, either during or after their time on the surface, then how come the labyrinths are built in the Type 2 style? You could say that "just like the rest of the surface ruins, the people who followed them added their own stonework around them", but how were they able to do this in the Depths, let alone the sky - and why didn't they also then do more of this work on Zonai ruins in the sky and Depths?

Furthermore, the entrance platforms on the sky mazes are, as mentioned, using the Type 1 aesthetics. If there were people coming after the Zonai who added onto the Zonai's ruins (even in the sky mazes), why did they leave out this entrance platform? Why didn't they build around that, too? A logical conclusion to make is that it's the other way around; that the Type 1 platform was added onto the labyrinths, explaining why it sticks out as the only part that's of a different style, instead of someone rebuilding the entire massive construction and leaving out ONE platform/piece of ground. But again, that also clashes with what we (assume) we know about the Type 2 ruins, and that they came after and were built around Type 1 ruins. So another possibility is that this new entrance platform in the sky with the Type 1 aesthetic came out of the labyrinth due to the Upheaval.

It's also the curious case of the Zonai talking to you here are the "rulers of boars, dragons and owls". Were they mighty Zonai? High ranked Zonai? Godly Zonai? Were they perhaps the ones who swalloed secret stones and became the 3 dragons?

And in all of this, what does "Lomei" mean? Is it the name of a faction of the Zonai? Or perhaps the name of the tribe of people that did this Type 2 rework on the Zonai ruins?

Finally, one possibility I could see is that the Type 2 ruins are originally the oldest style, predating the Type 1 ruins. The "godly era ruins", as Master Works calls the temple underneath Hyrule Castle, is said to be of the earliest Zonai constructions. If the temple entrance is made of the Type 2 aesthetics, perhaps this was the oldest form of Zonai architecture, meaning the 3 labyrinths are of the oldest period of the Zonai, before the "modern" Type 1 style took over, and that after the Zonai left (or died out), followers of the oldest Zonai built around the modern Zonai structures with the style of the ancient Zonai as an honor to them.

What do you think of all of this? What are your thoughts? Any details that I've missed that may help explain things more, perhaps?

Please understand first that I am not trying to advocate for the TotK True Founding or Refounding theories. This is more an analysis of a valid point regarding either.

One problem that some have with Refounding theory is that it would require the events of OoT to be remembered, which would happen before Hyrule is destroyed, but require events in between to be forgotten like the TotK IW. I can understand that. How can events that happened earlier, before the country fell, be recalled if the refounding of the kingdom was not? I can't say that I personally have a theory off the top of my head for how this is possible. I just want to look at how similar it is to OoT ~> BotW.

So pretend we are in pre-TotK release times. Nothing from that game (or EoW) is in the canon yet. We do know that Aonuma said that BotW is just sometime after OoT. What timeline? Never answered. Does it matter? In my opinion, it does not. Since the cycle of Ganon is endless, the events could theoretically happen in any of them. I get people disagree with this, and by all means I am not John Nintendo, but regardless of WHERE you place BotW, it would require events betwee OoT and 10,000 years ago to be forgotten by the general Hyrulean public. This would be something required with True and Refounding.

So bringing this all home, if one has to accept that the events between OoT and 10,000 years ago have been forgotten, then one must accept that the events, including a refounding, between OoT and 10,000 years ago, could also be forgotten to time.

I liked how they revealed Link and Zelda's actors. When Ben and Bo were announced by Miyamoto, the conversation was centered around them, being unknowns and the acting background they do have, which Link and which Zelda are they doing, will they be romantic, notice of their age difference.

One year later, NYT and Deadline then announced a set of other actors subsequently, posting Ganondorf, then Sam Neil, Dichan as Impa, and Yvonne Stravoski which loses the flow. Then next couple days, Lydia Peckham an Samara Weaving are announced. Some actors were given more attention than others which limited the conversation. What I kind of wished happened was that they rolled out the actors in pairs and space it all out so we can keep focus on each of them and have time to process the info rather, while focusing the roles they play and the idea of what story is going to be told instead of jumping around.

Since we know who they'd be playing, they could've announced Uli and Dichan together and keep the same sort of focus we had for Ben and Bo last year.

Then later on Sam Neil and Yvonne Strahovski since we don't know who they play yet but the word is they're Zelda's parents, the king and queen.

Same with Lydia Peckham and Samara Weeving. I know Deadline and NYT just report what they got and have no responsibility or obligation to how this movie is marketed, and it is what it is, but I see a missed opportunity.

We all know about Revali's massive ego and his intense rivalry/jealousy towards Link. But I was wondering, how exactly does he view Princess Zelda ?

Is his loyalty to her purely out of duty as a Champion, or is there a genuine mutual respect ? Does he ever show any softer feelings towards her, or is it strictly professional ?

Would love to hear your thoughts or if there's any lore/dialogue I might have missed ! Because i have see so many people and vídeo when people say rivali love zelda and their is some "love triangle" between Zelda link rivali...

I hope not ... Because its the trope i hate the most in any videogame or anime or light novel ! 🥲

So, this is something that's been debated to hell and back. when it comes to BotW's timeline placement, the three most popular theories are...

1. It takes place in the DT
2. It's a convergence
3. It can take place in any three timelines

Whilst I lean towards DT, I am open to it being all three.

But, I remember years ago suggesting it was the CT, and this ended up rubbing a few people the wrong way.

One person described BotW as "definitely being intended for the DT". There arguments being...

• It's in (old) Hyrule | (so no AT)
• The OoT Sages (and OoT events) are a confirmed historic fact | (So no CT)
• Ganon has been an eternally returning scourge upon Hyrule (even before becoming known as "Calamity Ganon") | (only really a thing in DT, Ganondorf (I) only really returned to Hyrule once in AT and CT and then he died as a mortal man, unlike in DT where he became a true demon when getting the full triforce, and has since been permanently returning as "Ganon" like a true demon)
• Ganon is also specifically confirmed to have his origins as the Ganondorf met in OoT (unlike FSA's "Ganon II" which is the "last known Ganon" in the CT)

Obviously the last two points involving Ganon are now moot, since TotK revealed it to be a different Ganon this whole time, and not OoT Ganon. So, it doesn't matter if FSA made a different Ganondorf.

I feel like the first two points stand. Particular the Sage one. The Zora have Zora tablets, telling the story of Princess Ruto becoming a Sage to help Link and Zelda fight Ganondorf.

I'm not saying "BotW can't be CT", I'm just asking who would you explain it, if you think it is possible?

EDIT: One thing I suggested was that we could use Hyrule Warriors to explain the people knowledge of Princess Ruto's heroics. But this was shot down as be "bending evidence", by useing a "non-canon game".

I recently beat Zelda II: The Adventure of Link on a 100%, no save states run and I loved it. I realized there’s a trick to enjoying the game that a lot of people seem to miss. Almost everyone complains about this game’s difficulty. And, they’re not wrong. It’s hard, even when compared to other NES titles of the same era. This ruins the experience for a lot of gamers. They get frustrated trying to whiteknuckle through or just quit and end up robbing themselves of the ability to truly appreciate this underrated masterpiece.

The method I came up with to make the game easier and up your enjoyment is simple: 

Treat AoL like it’s MM.

Now, I know what you’re thinking, “uh, people hate MM and constantly complain about that game too.” Agreed. It’s a shame, but those gamers often also fall victim to a flawed approach. With a small tweak in mindset they’d really enjoy MM, and then taking the same tack, they can get the most from AoL. Two Guays with one arrow and all that.

Biggest Complaint Against Majora’s Mask

Easily the most often repeated complaint against MM is the time mechanic. People say, “It makes the game too stressful. I hate being deep in a dungeon with not enough time left and then I have to reset to Day 1, losing all my progress, and have to do everything over.”

Well, there’s your problem right there. If a cycle reset causes you to lose meaningful progress, and that upsets you, then you are doing it wrong. The good news is a small shift in mindset can help big time. 

The Trick to MM

The secret to enjoying MM is to think of time as an item. That’s right, it’s not just an anagram. The same way you'd think about rupees, bombs, magic, or any consumable in another Zelda game is how time itself works in Majora’s Mask.

It’s a natural instinct in most games to keep track of consumable items and make sure you have enough for a given task. People seldom enter dungeons short on bombs, arrows, and magic. Instead they tend to farm up their inventory before taking on a big challenge. But in MM, the same cautious players will YOLO into quests, dungeons, and bosses while being depleted of the most important resource in the game: time.

Short on time? Better stock up. This approach causes you to think more strategically about the game and plan what you are going to do in each 3 day cycle. Maybe you take a full cycle just to explore. Then, when you know where stuff is, reset and spend a cycle getting said stuff. 

Find yourself on Day 3 having finally figured out how to get to the Great Bay Temple and about to hookshot the turtle’s back? 

Yeah, don’t do that. For the love of Hylia reset. Play the song of time. Then do it backwards. And then start the temple. Once inside, work the same process. Go in knowing you’ll spend a full cycle just to explore. Then reset. Then get the dungeon item (which carries over from cycle to cycle). Then reset. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. 

Treat time like a consumable and you’ll find the game less stressful and more enjoyable.

Back to Zelda II

What’s this have to do with Adventure of Link? There’s no time mechanic there. This is true, but you do have a resource in the game that functions in a similar way: lives. (And coincidentally, you get 3 of them just like days in MM.)

Most people get rattled when they die in AoL. And I mean, who wouldn't? Being hit with a flashing red screen and Ganon laughing at you like Soda Popinski riding out a Mt. Dew sugar crash is no fun. But there is a way to snap out of it. Treat those deaths like days and the game's difficulty plummets.

The Trick to AoL

It’s the same secret. Lives are a consumable item. Just like rupees. Just like time. Use a set of lives to learn. Then use a set to progress. Down to 1 life and starting a palace? Might not be a good idea. Instead, reset and roll up to the palace fully stocked.

Now, I know what you are thinking. “I can’t play the song of time on my Zelda II warp whistle. How do I just reset and get 3 lives again?” 

That’s simple. Die on purpose. 

If you are up against a tough challenge like death mountain while short on lives, just kill your character, and continue before you take it on. Thankfully, in Zelda II there are many shortcuts that get you back to any location quickly from the starting palace. If you stock up on lives before starting a new section, then you’ll find the game much easier, less stressful, and more enjoyable.

From time to time you may find yourself with 1 life, but full health, and you really don’t want to put in all the effort to die. 

Well, thankfully there are many convenient locations that will instantly red screen you. No need to waste your time ramming your shins into a proto-chu trying to chip your health down. Just go jump into any available gap in the floor. And, if you find it difficult to maneuver into these gaps, then you can use these helpful little bubbles that’ll gently navigate you directly into the shadowy depths thus causing you to be reborn at ancient Zelda’s side with 3 fresh lives ready to slap some Dairas in the face with a jumping crouch stab.

TL;DR: Enjoy MM by spending days like rupees. Enjoy AoL the same way. But with lives. Murder Link often, and you just might find, "Your face is beaming!"

Containing spoilers for Super Mario Galaxy 2

It seems a lot cleaner. In Skyward Sword, it kinda explains why the swap in religion or belief, and excuses the races in the wild era. From a developer point of view, Skyward Sword seems like it was heading in that direction. The "so far in the future" seems kinda... idk... lazy? I mean it has great potential if they can actually give us the convergence timeline theory in a game where we can see it happen. Also, wouldn't that mean they need an apocalyptic event or a reboot in the game? Like think of the ending for Super Mario Galaxy 2. Anyway, I am curious to see what the future hold.

Four years ago, I made a (now somewhat) outdated theory about a hidden tribe of "dogmen". Theory: Hyrules lost/hidden race/tribe : r/truezelda

The main focus was on the Darknuts, or rather, the ones from MC and WW, and how they may be decided from the Mogma.

Turns out, I may have been partly right about their being a race of dogmen. We see that with the Ancient Hero.

Ancient Hero is not a Zonai

Just something to get out of the way. Many people call the Ancient Hero "Zonai Link", but he's not a Zonai. TotK made it clear that Rauru and Mineru were the last two members of their kind.

People have tried to handwave this by suggesting "Ancient Hero is a hybrid, so he doesn't count". Whilst being a hybrid would explain his hylian-like ears, it wouldn't explain the other differences.

Aside from the ears, The Ancient Hero also possess a long tail. Something Rauru, Mineru or the Hylians have. Also, both Rauru and Mineru possess human-like plantigrade feet, just like the Hylians. Yet the ancient heroes feet are digitigrade, and more canine-like. Again, suggesting he's a different species.

The Mogma and the Ancient Hero

So, what is the Ancient Hero?

I think he's from a yet unnamed race. One that evolved from the Mogma.

SS has many new races. Most of them are speculated to be the ancestors of present day races, these being: The Parella, Kikwi and Loftwings, the possible ancestors of Zora, Kokiri (and Deku trees) and BotW's Rito (more on that in another post I made). That just leaves out the Mogma.

In the depths, we see five statues representing different non-Hylian creatures: The Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Rito and a fifth creature that looks like a humanoid Mogma, and shares similarities to the Ancient Hero.

Where are these Mogma-decendents in other eras?

When discussing new races, an important question to ask is, why don't we see them in other games?

The most simple solution is that they were underground this whole time. I mean, the Mogma are a subterranean race.

Another possibility I heard is they may have become the Subrosian from OoS. Apart from living underground, they also live in areas surrounded may magma, similar to the Mogma.

But, what if we actually do see some members in other games? (If you read the out-dated post, you know where this is going)

The Darknuts in WW, MC and FS are inexplicably dog-like in design. Darknuts themselves don't appear to be an actual species, but rather a high rank of solider, that could theoretically be any species, and work for any side. But what if the ones from WW, MC and FS are these dog-men?

Following the timeline, we know there was some unseen invasion prior to MC, which ended in the invading forces being sealed away in a chest. Given how there seem to be no designated leader, and Darknuts appear as high ranking mini-bosses. It's possible these Darknuts may have been responsible for the invasion, or at least, played a major role.

It's possible these Darknuts were brought back by Vaati in FS, and then discovered by Ganondorf in WW. As for the other timelines, the TP Darknuts are clearly human in origin. The DT Darknuts are impossible to tell.

Or, I could just be completely wrong, and the Darknuts are just monsters.

With the Wild era's massive focus on climbing and other forms of vertical movement (Revali's Gale, gliding from high places, Ascend, springs, rockets, etc.), they would have been the perfect games to feature a true Shadow of the Colossus-style boss fight.

For those unfamiliar with Shadow of the Colossus, it is a game where you slay giant creatures by climbing up their bodies to reach weak points and stabbing them. The Colossi in the game are enormous, with all but three being over 50 feet tall and some getting way bigger.

Obviously, climbing a giant monster to kill it is awesome. And it's such a shame to me that neither BotW or TotK truly did something like this.

The games got close at times, with bosses such as the Taluses, Flux Constructs, or even Marble Goham, but they were all too small. The Demon Dragon is certainly big enough and even resembles the Thirteenth Colossus in a lot of ways, but most of the fight is just riding on the Light Dragon and skydiving down onto its weak points, with very little actual time spent on the Demon Dragon's body.

There are three books that were only released in Japan. These were "Artwork Collection" 1 - 3.

The second one (Artwork Collection 2) was released in 2014 (I believe), between Hyrule Historia and Hyrule Encyclopedia. It featured an updated timeline with information from A Link Between Worlds.

And the strange thing is... The Era of Chaos, when the Interlopers invaded Hyrule, and Rauru sealed the Triforce in the Sacred Realm, now happend *after* Hyrule's founding.

But in both Encyclopedia, and the later Artwork Collection 3, it's returned to The Sacred Realm is Sealed -> Hyrule is founded.

From my research, it seems like Hyrule Historia and the two Wild Era books are the most reliable, as Historia is supervised and edited by Aonuma, and the Wild books feature a ton from the devs themselves. Encyclopedia is supervised by Nintendo, and so it seems the timeline is as canon as you can get, but the rest is writer interpretations to be taken with a grain of salt. And the japanese-exclusive Artwork Collection books seem to have no supervision from Nintendo, so these are by far the least reliable.

So seing as the 3rd book is back to the original order of events, it seems like this was an error in the second book based on the myths told in A Link Between Worlds. Interesting nontheless