u/AnteaterKey2626

This building in Mechelen, Belgium was one of the first Renaissance buildings in Northern Europe. It was originally a modest house that was granted to Margaret of Austria, regent of the Low Countries. Margaret started an ambitious expansion project that would transform it into a majestic residence, from which she governed the Low Countries on behalf of her nephew Charles, the future Holy Roman Emperor. Margaret's court was one of the most magnificent hubs of art, literature and music north of the Alps.

After Henry VIII had sent Thomas Boleyn to the Low Countries as a diplomat in May 1512, he made a very good impression on Margaret and eventually plucked up the courage to ask if she would make his daughter Anne one of her maids of honour as a personal favour. Margaret agreed, and thus Anne was able to obtain a very good education at the court of a woman who wielded significant political power. She was staying with Margaret from spring 1513 to August 1514, when she left the Low Countries to join the household of Mary Tudor, Queen of France.

My visit to the city was quite unexpected, but it's a great little piece of Tudor history on the Continent. As the building is now home to a courthouse, most of the interior is off-limits for visitors, but the courtyard is a beautiful place to stop and reminisce. Apparently the exterior was also later used as a model for the Palace of Whitehall as rebuilt for Anne in the 1530s, which is a nice touch.

I recently came across an argument by historian Heather R. Darsie that made me reconsider the traditional account.

According to Darsie, the main English sources for the rumour of the meeting going down badly and Henry immediately finding Anne unattractive after she'd failed to recognise him were depositions specifically created for the annulment of their marriage, and said depositions were taken in June and July 1540, just before the annulment went through. Additionally, Cromwell signed an attestation about the events right after learning an Act of Attainder was passed against him, so he might have been trying to save his life by agreeing to the falsified account of Henry and Anne's relationship.

The German accounts were, on the other hand, written by Heinrich Olisleger, who held the position of Vice Chancellor of Cleves and was in England at the time of the meeting, and they differ from the English version. Olisleger wrote a letter to Anne's brother William, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg, just a few days after Henry and Anne's first meeting.

Here is an excerpt from Darsie's biography of Anne of Cleves that mentions this:

>According to Olisleger, while Anna was at Rochester watching a bull-baiting with her German lords, Henry came to call on her after lunch with ten or twelve of his gentlemen. This presumably included Sir Anthony Browne, Henry’s Master of Horse, who was deposed at the annulment trial later on that year. It was New Year’s Day 1540, and the excited groom could not wait to meet his bride. Henry and his men were dressed as private persons. Henry entered the room and greeted Anna, which may have unsettled her. After all, Anna was used to the culture of the Frauenzimmer, so having strange men come into her presence without proper preparation could have caught her off guard.
Anna invited this private person, a representative of the King, to dine with her. Afterward, he presented Anna with a gorgeous gift ‘from the King’ for New Year: a crystal goblet, the lid and foot of which were completely gilded and inlaid with diamonds and rubies. Another golden band encircled the goblet, also with inlaid rubies and diamonds. Afterward, Henry and Anna enjoyed banqueting together. Henry stayed over to the next day, 2 January 1540, though at a separate location so as not to offend Anna’s virtue. He and his men broke their fast with Anna and her gentlemen. Henry then returned to Greenwich. Anna herself departed for Dartford with her train later that day. It is unclear at what point Henry made his identity known to Anna.

Darsie argues that it was only later, when Henry learned that Duke William had entered a dispute with Holy Roman Emperor over the strategic Duchy of Guelders, that the story changed. As William made a secret alliance with Francis I (and would later marry Jeanne d'Albret), Henry was on the verge of having to go to war with the Holy Roman Empire and needed to diplomatically extricate himself from the alliance with Cleves and from his marriage. Cromwell, commissioned with writing a letter with Henry’s reasons for annulling the marriage, invented the story of the ruinous first meeting (adding that to Anne's pre-contract to Francis of Lorraine as one of the reasons). Of course, this doesn't necessarily prove that Henry was not disappointed by Anne's appearance, I'm merely wondering if the later accounts are reliable evidence for what actually happened at Rochester.

I would love to know what other people think. I understood that Henry's alliance with William was shaky from the start since William had to carefully manoeuvre between Charles V and Francis I, and that political motivations for the annulment played a major role, but not that it wouldn't at all be about Henry finding Anne personally unattractive when they first met.

Online sources:

• https://thefreelancehistorywriter.com/2012/05/18/anne-of-cleves-queen-of-england/
• https://maidensandmanuscripts.com/2020/01/01/when-henry-met-anna-the-german-account/
• https://maidensandmanuscripts.com/2020/02/26/the-first-cracks-in-anna-of-cleves-marriage-to-henry-viii/

I've come across the claim that Henri Jules sometimes believed himself to be an animal, particularly a dog or a wolf, and that this has been interpreted as a possible case of clinical lycanthropy. The claim seems to originate at least in part from Saint-Simon's Memoirs. He wrote this about the Prince of Condé:

"It was whispered that there were times when M. le Prince believed himself a dog, or some other beast, whose manners he imitated; and I have known people very worthy of faith who have assured me they have seen him at the going to bed of the King suddenly throw his head into the air several times running, and open his mouth quite wide, like a dog while barking, yet without making a noise."

Do we know any more than just that?

I've been thinking about finally picking up a book on Lady Jane Grey, and I've narrowed it down to these three, all relatively recent and seemingly well-received:

• The Sisters Who Would Be Queen (by Leanda de Lisle)
• Lady Jane Grey: A Tudor Mystery (by Eric Ives)
• Crown of Blood: The Deadly Inheritance of Lady Jane Grey (by Nicola Tallis)

Has anyone read any of these and can make any recommendations, please? I generally like the writing style of all three authors and I'm really not sure which one to get. I also like the fact that de Lisle focuses on all three Grey sisters, given that Katherine and Mary also had dramatic and tragic lives, but I'm still primarily interested in Jane.

20,000+ days: Prince Philip of Edinburgh (25265), Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (20888)

10,000–19,999 days: Philippa of Hainault (15179), Eleanor of Provence (13456), Eleanor of Aquitaine (12618)

7,500–9,999 days: Mary of Teck (9390), Catherine of Aragon (8747), Henrietta Maria of France (8632), Catherine of Braganza (8297), Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (7978)

5,000–7,499 days: Isabella of France (6940), Eleanor of Castile (6582), Elizabeth Woodville (6576), Matilda of Scotland (6380), Elizabeth of York (6232), Matilda of Flanders (6156), Margaret of Anjou (5984), Matilda of Boulogne (5977), Isabella of Angoulême (5900), Anne of Denmark (5822), Elizabeth of Bowes-Lyon (5535), Adeliza of Louvain (5424)

2,500–4,999 days: Anne of Bohemia (4521), Caroline of Ansbach (3815), Joan of Navarre (3694), Alexandra of Denmark (3391), Berengaria of Navarre (2886), Margaret of France (2858), Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen (2551)

1,000–2,499 days: Prince George of Denmark (2426), Mary of Modena (1404), Catherine Parr (1296), Anne Boleyn (1085), Isabella of Valois (1063)

500–999 days: Catherine of Valois (820), Anne Neville (629), Caroline of Brunswick (556), Jane Seymour (512)

Less than 500 days: Catherine Howard (483), Anne of Cleves (188)

Average tenure: 5953.4 days (Margaret of Anjou and Elizabeth Woodville each counted as one tenure)

Percentage of time (1066–2022, William I–Elizabeth II) during which the English/British monarch had no royal consort: 31.78%

Disputed consorts such as Geoffrey Plantagenet, Margaret of France (wife of HtYK) and Guildford Dudley are not included.

I've seen this portrait, attributed to William Scrots, identified as depicting either one or the other, so I wonder what people think. The facial features here look a bit similar to Hilliard's miniature portrait of Margaret, at least to me.

Off the top of my head, I can remember the Jacobite risings, his conflicts with both his father and his son, his love for his wife, and how much he liked his beloved electorate. A fact that often comes up is that he was also the last British monarch to personally lead troops into battle.

Still, he had a long reign of 33 years that included several major European wars, yet he seems surprisingly overlooked compared with the monarchs before and after him. Maybe this is because his political role is often portrayed as being quite limited compared with that of Parliament and his ministers? Or is there more to it than that?

I've read that King Louis Philippe visited Queen Victoria in 1844, and that during his exile decades earlier he became friends with Victoria's father, the Duke of Kent. I would like to know more about what kind of relationship Victoria and Louis Philippe had, both personally and as fellow monarchs.

One of the most capable consorts and regents in my opinion, and a major stabilising force during the Fronde and even into Louis XIV's majority. Personality-wise also very interesting, she both adored gambling and was extremely pious, and I also love how she was proud of her hands.

Any biographies or other book suggestions would be welcome, or also on the 17th-century Stuart princesses in general. I know Sophia was not a Stuart, but still she's Stuart-adjacent ... I've read Daughters of the Winter Queen, which included plenty of information on the British princesses of the era as well, and so far I've only encountered books on Mary II and Anne, so I'd love to read about their aunts too.

Louis XV (left): 15 February 1710 – 10 May 1774
Klemens von Metternich (middle): 15 May 1773 – 11 June 1859
Wilhelm II (right): 27 January 1859 – 4 June 1941

Looking for books that capture this vibe. I love reading about the dark aspects of royal life in late medieval and early modern Europe, especially focused on tragic personal stories, paranoia, abandonment, the feeling of going insane. I'm open to all genres, either more historical or veering into fantasy, any suggestions would be much appreciated.

This might be a bit outside the usual scope since it's more Tudor-adjacent than strictly Tudor, but I'm so fascinated by these Habsburg royal women (Margaret of Austria, Mary of Hungary, Margaret of Parma, Isabella Clara Eugenia).

I've recently read Sarah Gristwood's Game of Queens that also features them, but I haven't been able to find much written on them specifically. Can anyone recommend any books, articles or other resources on any of them? They mostly appear as supporting characters in Tudor narratives, especially Margaret of Austria and Mary of Hungary (and Margaret of Parma even visited England!), so I'd love to know more about them.