u/Authorigas

So Civ 7 recently had it's big test of time update, and overall it seems to be a pretty smashing success. One of the main points of praise was how you can now finally play as a Civ from beginning to end, which just made me think about why the Civ swapping mechanic was added in the first place. From what I remember in an interview with Director Ed Beach, it came down to both narrative and gameplay.

1. Civilizations in history rarely remain in the same form across all of history. Rome was first a Monarchic kingdom, then a republic, then an empire, and then it technically evolved into several other forms over the years. The Civ Switching mechanic was meant to replicate that idea, of a Civilization constantly changing it's name and identity as time passed by.

2. The devs noted that a lot of players were starting new games of Civ, but rarely finishing them. The Civ Switch/Era reset was meant to help with that, by giving players several stopping points, with each era being a 'new game' to help players see it through to the end.

Sadly, this didn't work out and was massively unpopular, hence leading to changes in Test of Time. However, it did remind me of another massively unpopular at the time change, that ultimately worked out for the best, Role Que/lock in Overwatch.

Back in the old days of Overwatch, there was no role que. Anyone could play whatever they wanted, any role, etc, etc. However, after Brigitte and the release of the hated GOATS meta, Blizzard implemented a role lock/que feature to Overwatch, where players were locked into two tanks, two supports, and two DPS.

A lot of people hated this, beyond the main issue with DPS que times taking forever, namely saying it 'killed variety'. Players could no longer experiment or try weird, goofy comps, or swap if one person wasn't doing their job, which...was funny to me as a support/tank player. Because my experience was most often "my team will go Five DPS, never swap, and blame me for not keeping them alive while the enemy will run a tank and two healers, and stomp us into the dirt." As well as games just feeling like a flip of the coin, on whether my team would build a proper comp or go 'woops, all DPS trying to deal with a Zarya being pocketed by a Mercy.'

Nowadays, especially with the shift to 5v5 and more balanced roster variety, people are a lot kinder to role que. Those who stick with Overwatch have recognized the mechanic does lead to games feeling more balanced, and ensures people who want to play a role get to actually play it. There are still issues of course, but it generally ensures that games have a better chance of being balanced between both teams, barring a few bad exceptions.

Even Marvel Rivals, a game people used to use to beat down on Overwatch, has had players requesting a role que like feature be added to it. As the playerbase was having similar issues with people choosing roles selfishly, and thus leading to unbalanced team games. It's kind of interesting that a really unpopular mechanic that people decried as making people quit the game, and being told it would kill Overwatch forever...actually ended up making it better to play.

Curious if there are any other examples of hated mechanics or changes that ended up working out in the long term.

It's easy to dismiss everything said by a person we personally dislike, or even the value of an idea we hate. But sometimes, like it or not, they can offer a really interesting bit of insight into a topic. Even if everything else they say is...atrociously wrong, or the idea itself is just blah.

Case in point, Eric Kripke, showrunner of The Boys has said a lot of stupid shit, and burned a lot of goodwill as a result. However, before that 'hillarious' interview that destroyed his reputation, he gave a really interesting interview about streaming television a while back. And made the observation that, a lot of showrunners for Netflix, Amazon, etc, were all built from a movie background. And as such, they had a tendency to put all the 'big moments' into the beginning and ending, along with releasing everything for a binge format.

He compared it to his own background on Supernatural and other weekly cable shows. He argued that in that kind of background, you learn that you need to have every episode give 'something' worth talking about, or bringing in fans. Whether it's a shocking event like the herogasm, or just a really laugh out loud moment, he argued you have to write a show so each episode will keep people engaged.

It came at a time where people were sort of 'cold' on Stranger Things in between seasons, but the boy was in constant rotation discussion. I found it really interesting, and pretty insightful into why some shows seem to linger and others just 'pop and fade'...Even if everything else he's said I vehemently disagree with, I thought that was really interesting.

Similarly, Randy Pitchford gave a really interesting talk about BL4's lack of mini map after it's first gameplay reveal. He went on for like, 10-20 messages on a twitter thread discussing how they internally tested the mini map, why it wasn't working for BL4, and what led them to the compass system. It was actually a really interesting peek into the lens of game development. Even if Randy tends to shove his foot in his mouth most of the time.

Any other examples folks here can think of?

Sometimes a creator gets attached to a particular character as the story goes along. It isn't a unique or even completely bad phenomena. But sometimes it goes a little overboard, to the point of the creator outright falling in love with their own creations.

I was thinking about FF XIII's localization, which got me back in the old discourse around Lightning. She was modeled off of Testuya Nomura's ideal woman by his own admission, and the director kept giving these really weird interviews about the character, asking "is she happy" or that sort of thing. I can't definitively say if he was in love with the character or not, but I remember there was some weirdness there.

Now, with stuff like Devil is a Part Timer or Rent a Girlfriend, I actually can say the authors did indeed fall in love with a specific character, to the detriment of the story being told. Rent a Girlfriend's author has posted some really weird images online of him going on 'dates' with a cutout of his manga's lead girl. And Devil is a Part Timer >!Derailing the main romance arc to pair the main character with the side character the author was in love with was a wild change.!<

I feel like those were the most famous modern examples, but are there any other examples out there?

A while back I had the idea of the HSR team convincing Kinoko Nasu of Fate: Stay Night fame to do a story chapter for ZZZ as a favor, and ended up thinking what that would be about. Knowing Nasu and the type of stories he writes, I think it would find some way to blend his love of mythology, and his broader themes of what it means to be a "hero".

As such, I think a hypothetical Nasu penned ZZZ chapter would focus on a film modeled on the life of an old Void Hunter, potentially one with Arthurian coding. The lead Actress would be given a Void Hunter Weapon by Edmund, in hopes of capturing a "Star" for TOPS. From there it would probably focus on the question of "what does it mean to be a Void Hunter? Is it the weaponry or power? Or some greater desire to protect?"

I could imagine drawing on both the story of Sunbringer, whose love for humanity was a central point in chapter 2.5, and contrasting her story with Lt. Colonel Dan. I've been fascinated with him ever since Sarah's flashback in 2.4, and I think it could be interesting if the Lt. Colonel sacrificed his free will to become a construct capable of protecting the people, only to become a tool to the NEDF and it's politicking as a result. And the contrast between power and individual will/love in making one a hero worthy of being a "Void Hunter."

As an alternative writer pick, I'd love to see Kazutaka Kodaka and Kotaro Uchikoshi (Danganronpa, Zero Escape, AI Somnium Files, Hundred Line Last Defense Academy.) do a story arc for ZZZ, if only because of the absolute insanity the two would no doubt cook up. Probably focusing on Joyeuse and the labrynth diluting time, the causality of how a series of mundane choices in the past led to the fall of the old capitol, and of course the pretty white haired boy who turns out to be insane and has a lot of BL coding with Wise.

What writers would you like to see come over to ZZZ? What type of story do you think they would write, and what elements of the lore do you think they would engage with?

Description: After getting a lot of comments accusing them of stealing content, your ASMR VA has a few choice words to say.

So, I'm gonna be the first to admit I don't expect this script to be filled. Even after I toned it down and removed most of the swearing and viciousness, I still wouldn't suggest voicing it. This is just me, as a writer, putting myself in the shoes of a VA and expressing my frustrations with the system as it currently stands. I wrote this and posted it at a friends suggestion, in the hopes that it may capture what some folks here are feeling, and get it out in written form.

If you are interested in filling it, improvisation, edits, monetization, and pay walling are all 100% acceptable. Just credit me as u/authorigas and let me know if you decide to do so. If you like my work, but don't like this script, I did post another one two days ago that is a lot more palatable to a general audience.

I know things are difficult for a lot of VAs right now, especially on Youtube. Some folks I know have even said they're scared to fill public scripts anymore for fear of being flagged by the system. As a writer, it's personally demoralizing, and it hurts to know so many amazing VAs are suffering because of this stupid system. I hope this script, goofy as it is, can offer a bit of catharsis.

___Script Start____

Hey there, my dear listener. I know you clicked onto this video expecting another performance from yours truly, but we really need to talk.

…

I mean, yes I am always talking to you in character. But this time it’s personal, from me the VA to you the person listening to this audio. Recently I’ve been getting a lot of comments on my videos from fans like you, and fans of other talented, amazing Voice Actors.

….

Oh, aside from the usual comments about the bloodline ending with the listener for enjoying a fantasy, or standard compliments. There’s one consistent comment I keep getting that’s been bothering me, just a little bit. “Stolen content.”

…

(gentle huff) Well, people will fill a script, hear another VA fill it, and assume that VA owns the script. Ergo, any other VA that fills said script has to be stealing it from that original VA. So these concerned fans go into the comments to warn people, and some truly…eager souls will report us to the Youtube algorithm, to make sure they know of this ‘crime’.

…

(whisper) Come closer, I have to tell you something. And I want you to pay attention, okay? Just relax, lean your ear in, and listen like you always do my dear listeners….

(raising voice) That’s not how any of this works! Like, not even remotely!

(lecturing tone) Voice Actors use scripts to help create content, sometimes we write our own. But a lot of the time, those scripts are written by hobbyists online, script writers who we credit in our video descriptions or thumbnails. Sometimes we’ll even pay script writers for a specific script when we need help writing an idea down. But most of the time, scripts are written and posted on an open source forum for any VA to use.

In fact, there are entire subreddits dedicated to finding and posting scripts! Places like ASMRScripthaven, or TalkingTallTales, there are even dedicated websites for posting scripts and audios! And again, we always credit those authors whenever we use their scripts! All you have to do is check the video description, or even look at the damn thumbnail for more than two seconds to see if an author is credited!

But no, that’s apparently too much work! Way better to just go into the comments, typing out some accusation about us ‘stealing’ another VA’s script and patting yourself on the back. Whoop de doo you're a real hero aren’t ya, tearing down a VA for using a public resource!

Oh, and let’s not forget our almighty corporate overlords looming over our heads like an executioner's axe! Bad enough ASMR roleplay has a negative stigma around it that triggers the adult content bots! But with the open source stuff, it’s easier than ever for an overzealous copyright bot to trip up and guess what, I’m unmonetized now! 

(huff) Do you have any idea how many of us rely on this for a primary source of income? Sure, for some of us it’s just a side gig or a hobby, but a lot of us rely on this gig as a primary source of income! Off the top of his head, the guy who wrote this script can name 3 VA’s he knows who use Voice acting to pay the bills! And I can personally name (ad lib, do you know any VAs who need the income? Do you need it? Let it all out!)

(mocking) Oh but here comes a dashing commentor, thinking I stole an open source script from their favorite VA! They had better report me so their oshi will notice them, and hail them a hero! And then Youtube’s stupid AI bots scan my video, see it getting reported, and then boom! I gotta take time out of my busy schedule to clear up a copyright strike so I can repost my video, or get it monetized!

…

(Fuming) Don't start. “Oh it’s just voice acting, how much time does it take?” Alright dipshit, let’s cover a few things you may not have considered. FIRST of all, not all of us live alone and have unlimited free time! I have places to go, bills to pay, jobs to apply for, paperwork to fill out, any number of real life obligations that keep me from recording full time! And even then! Some of us live with our families, friends, partners, and we have to be mindful of the noise issues! And heaven forbid we’re in an apartment complex, and the neighbors decide recording night is the time to throw an EDM party!

(ranting now) And then you have to go through the editing process! Something so tedious, I know quite a few of us offload it onto a paid editor! But if we’re unable to pay our editor because oh, I don’t know, our videos are demonitized! Then we have to do it ourselves! Listening to every second of an audio file, making sure we use the best takes, adding in the right sfx, carefully taking out any background noise, it ain’t easy!

…

(groans) Look, I get it. I really do, you want to protect your favorite creators. (sighs) Which in itself is part of a completely separate issue with parasocial fans who get a little too attached to VAs, but I get it. Voice acting and roleplaying is unfortunately a career which carries that risk, as it involves forming a temporary social connection with the listener. Just please, for the love of God remember that ‘relationship’ is entirely fictional and only exists in the audio itself-

(deep breath) Still, please remember to at least check the description or thumbnail before you make any accusations, alright? Yes, there are content thieves out there, folks who repost our content, with our voices, pitched up or down slightly, onto an AI slop farm channel. I’ve seen it before, it sucks. But that’s not the same thing as voicing a publicly available script.

(sighs) Just…take one minute before you type a comment, alright? Check the thumbnail, check the description. If you see the script publicly attributed, you’ll know it’s public use and not stolen that way. I know you want to stand up for your favorite channel, or even for me, but…please.

…

(awkward chuckle) Yeah, as angry as I am I just feel burned out…and I know that’s what the author’s feeling too. Recently, Youtube has gotten out of hand with all the copyright strikes, AI demonetization, and accusations…A lot of VAs are moving exclusively to Patreon or Spotify, or a personal website to dodge the nonsense. 

(quietly) We’re all hopeful those transitions will work, but the writer’s a bit cynical. A sizable chunk of our audience will probably follow us. Die hard fans. But, a lot of folks passively consume whatever crosses into their feed on Youtube… “if someone can’t be bothered to check the description or thumbnail for attribution, are they willing to go to an entirely separate site to support a VA?”

(awkwardly) Their words, not mine.

(shaky voice, earnest) The truth is…I’m scared, listener. Beneath all the performative anger and comedy and meta commentary? I’m absolutely terrified, the writer is too. We know how many VAs rely on this gig for a stable income, and with youtube going out of its way to screw us over…that’s getting harder and harder.

I don’t know if writing this script or voicing it was the right call, maybe you feel insulted and think this is all whining. But deep down I just want you to understand listener…all of us are just trying the best we can to make enjoyable content, share it, and for some of us, get paid for it. 

I want to keep making audios for you, I want to post them as far as I can, so you and anyone else who needs a soft voice can listen. Or maybe you just want to be immersed in a story for a little bit, I do too! I voice act because it’s a way for me to express myself. The writers write because they have a story they want to share, for comedy, self enjoyment, or to let something out.

I don’t know what the future holds right now, but right now it’s a really stressful time for all of us on Youtube. So just…before you report a video for theft, or copyright, or make an accusatory comment, please check the thumbnail and description. For your sake, and our own. It would really take a lot of stress off our plates.

(gentle, crying) Thank you…and I’m sorry. I’m so grateful to everyone who listens to me yap, whether it’s on Youtube, Spotify, Patreon, wherever. You're the reason I can keep doing this everyday, and the reason I want to keep doing this, in spite of all the bullshit…Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart. I love you all, my dear fans…Thank you. 

—Audio End—

I feel like recently there's been a bit of a turnaround on edgy material, especially with people softening up on the 2000s era of edgy franchises. However, I've always felt like there was a bit of a line for what makes a 'fun' edgy story, and just pure grossout or too much.

My recent go to example was the Power/Rangers short film directed by Joseph Kahn, and the 2017 Power Rangers film directed by Dean Israelite. Looking at both side by side, the two are similarly 'edgier' reimagining's of the Power Rangers concept, but both tend to elicit an opposite reaction from most fans.

Power/Rangers is generally seen as using it's mature/edgy elements for shock value. Suicide, drug addiction, talk of child soldiers, etc. The short film feels like it's making fun of the original property, and that it's definition of "realism" is "Everyone dies horribly and swears a lot while we throw around heavy topics like Drug Addiction and Limb Loss". It feels like the edge is more so meant to be mean spirited and graphic, if that makes sense.

By contrast, the 2017 film feels like an 80s-90s concept filtered through a late 2000s-early 2010's grunge filter. The film borrows it's plot from an old John Hugh's movie, Breakfast Club, but has the grungy elements of a CW school drama. Concepts from the original are given a darker makeover, but not pointlessly edgy. >!Zordon IS hiding information from the kids, but he's doing it to regain his body and fight Rita, and ultimately gives that up to save a human life. Showing he's darker and cynical, but still a good person/floating head thing. !<It's a darker take that feels like it just wants to update the source material, instead of mocking it.

That is my most recent example, but even then stuff like South Park has been popular despite a lot of shock value (though I do feel like it's cultural impact has diminished.) But through Matt's channel we've seen affection for properties like Darkwatch, Vexx (Vexx before you Sexx, people!) Shadow Man, and I feel like if it were attached to a better game, Drake of the 99 Dragons would be looked back at more fondly for it's cheesy story and edgy protagonist.

So what seperates 'fun edge' that people look back on fondly from edge that people really hate or hated? Is it primarily down to quality, or is there a line where dumb fun edge crosses over into excess and discomfort? If so, what is that line for you?

Really curious to hear some answers on this one!

Recently I had the displeasure of going up against a few different "that guys" in my recent MTG games. You know, downplays the power level of their decks, runs floodgates and game changers in casual Bracket 2 games, act really smug and rub it in, get salty when they lose, etc. I had the pleasure of flipping the game around and winning in one case, but the rest of us are trying to build a 4 man pod of friendlies to avoid getting grouped into those games.

Whether it's a card game, a tabletop game, or an online competitive game, we've all had to deal with "that guy" at some point. In the past I'd play in online competitive matches, get grouped into squads who would bully me for failing or not winning the game. Or worse, if I was playing with a female teammate we'd get a lot of 'colorful' comments. Wasn't good at responding back then, still get flustered in those sorts of situations.

So I want to ask folks who are more experienced in this sort of thing, when you get matched with, or have to deal with "that guy" how do you usually respond? Do you bite back, walk away, or is there another strategy you find effective?

Previously I asked about strategies that fall off depending on skill level, today I have a slightly different questions. What are some metas/strategies that are really strong, but end up being so unfun or oppressive that the playerbase actively self selects/refuses to play it, despite the strength.

I was inspired by this via both a History of Yugioh Jank rewatch, and my recent deck building experiences in Commander. In the former, MBT played a deck called "blue blooded oni FTK" a top tier strategy based around looping blue blooded oni, daigusto emeral, and Laval Chain 90+ times to draw your entire deck, to trigger A SECOND loop and then killing your opponnet in any number of ways. The issue? The play pattern was absolutely dreadful, just mind numbingly looping "oni for oni" over and over again, so pretty much no one was playing it during the time it was out.

For Commander, I've had to self select out of a lot of decks that wouldn't fit with my playgroup or create unfun gamestates. I'd love to make an Urza, Lord High Artificer deck because I could make a meme out of Urza being a war criminal, but the decks overall power level and reputation just wouldn't be fun for anyone at the pod. Similar issue with Azula, really fun commander, spell slinger, but her reputation just leads to people targeting her, or her stomping in lower bracket games. For a casual pod like mine, I feel like most of us have self selected out of playing those kinds of degenerate decks. (Commander itself is filled with these types of self selections, where players will not play top tier strategies in their playgroups, just to keep the vibes fun/fair.)

I'm curious for some other examples, are there any other top tier metas where the playerbase just refused to play the top strategy out of boredom, or mitigating toxicity?

A follow up to my previous thread about low tier power houses, today I want to ask about the opposite. Characters who are absolutely oppressive or dominante in the hands of a highly skilled player, but are almost never seen below a certain skill threshold, or feel barely impactful in those kinds of lobbies.

To use Overwatch for another example of this, Ana, especially on console. She's one of the hardest healers to play, lacking mobility, being aim intensive, and having two long cooldowns, one of which is a skill shot, and the other being difficult to time effectively for maximum impact. And her ult is single target compared to Lucio's AOE shield, Mercy's mass rez, or Zenyatta's mass AOE heal.

The thing is, those cooldowns are bio nade and sleep dart. The former lets you completely nullify the enemies healing, punishing an over extending or grouped up crowd by leaving them unable to mitigate a damge swarm, turning into a guaranteed kill against a skilled team. And sleep dart can take an oppressive enemy right out of the fight if you land the shot, meaning again a guaranteed kill, or for up to 6 seconds they can't do anything to help their team. And that ult can save a dying teammate, or let your hard carry deal more damage AND take less damage, turning an already powerful ult into a game winning play.

Lower lobbies tended to struggle making the most of her, but higher skill lobbies she was almost always one of the best healers in the game from my memory. With players timing bio nade to wipe a pushing enemy team, or the legendary combos of "Beyblade Death Blossom" "Nanoblade" all good times. Still, you tend not to see the aim skill, cooldown management, ability timing, and combo coordination needed to make the most of her below a certain skill level.

Are there any characters you can think of that fall into this category?

I've been playing a lot of Commander recently, and with the reveal of the Hobbit set yesterday at Magic Con, I am in awe of how well they've translated some of these characters to card form. Stuff like Smaug dealing damage based on the amount of treasures you control, or Riddles in the Dark forcing your opponent to pick between two piles of cards. Really cool flavor text that captures the original source material in fun ways.

The Final Fantasy 10 cards were also really good at this. Being focused on +1/+1 counters among your party to symbolize the sphere grid, Tidus' cheer ability letting him support everyone, Wakka having reach and the ability to destroy an artifact, Rikku's ability to steal counters and give stealth to your party members. Really fun, flavorful additions in my opinion that capture the source material super well.

Crossovers can be a mixed bag, but at their best they do a really great job of capturing one franchises flavor, and adapting it to the new IP. What are some of your favorite crossovers that just do a really good job of capturing what people liked about the franchise crossing over?

Talking about Overwatch again brought me back to the good old days of early OW on consoles. As a PS4 player let me tell you, back in my day Pharah was absolutely oppressive. Between lower awareness in the lower ranks, aiming being harder, and her having access to splash damage to mitigate her own poor aim, combined with a good Mercy she could be absolutely oppressive in my mid silver-low plat lobbies.

The thing is, that wasn't really the case on PC though, especially at higher tiers. With everyone's aim being much better, Pharah became extremely easy to shut down, and Mercy sticking in the sky with her meant she was pulled away from the rest of the team. Thus, the devs would try to buff her to make her better at higher ranks...which had a knock on effect of making her more oppressive in the lower ranks too.

There were a few other characters with that kind of distinction, (I think I counted Junkrat, Symmetra, and Sombra among them, the latter due to her ambush/assassinate playstyle, the other two for spam and lack of required aiming.) But from a balance standpoint, I find it interesting to think about these sorts of characters who are oppressively strong against less experienced players, but become almost useless the higher the skill level increases.

I think that contributed to a back and forth about balancing for casual vs competitive. Because while top down balancing does make sense on paper, it did lead to situations where, a hero already strong in the lower tiers got buffed, and the situation became even worse/unbearable.

Makes me curious to learn about other characters who fall into this distinction, absolutely wrecking casual Friday against your drunk friends, but who'll never get any time on EVO main stage. Fighting games, FPS games, moba, I'm curious!

Yet another thread on Folding Idea's Mr. Beast video, amusingly. One of the most damning things I think covered in that video aside from the overall misogyny, schoolyard bullying, and Mr. Beast's inability to build a fandom, is just how fundamentally incapable the Beast team was at creating effective game design.

When the goal of the game is, in Jimmy Beast's own words, to push players to lie and cheat in order to win. You would expect the game to incentivize such behavior...except, in most of the games, the opposite outcome happened. Playing the game by being honest and cooperating was actually the most effective outcome. Resulting in the host having to disqualify people by literally picking names out of a hat, due to no one lying to eliminate someone in the bluff game.

Very often, poor game design decisions are made that ruin a game, but a lot of the times those usually don't completely run counter to the game. As an example, Brigitte in Overwatch was designed because Dive heroes were really strong in high tier and, I believe, frustrating in low tiers. (I don't think Dive itself was meta in low tiers, but because lower skill players couldn't or didn't peel for supports, it led to dive heroes being able to secure picks more easily on defenseless supports.) So Brigitte was meant to act as a counter for supports to offer some protection against flankers.

Not a bad idea in theory, but it did create some interesting problems. Namely in shutting down dive completely, and being so powerful it led to what became known as the GOATS meta, where it was 3 supports and 3 tanks, effectively killing the DPS role and turning a Hero shooter into a Hero Brawler game.

As another personal example, Rune Factory Tides of Destiny decided to focus more on combat, dungeon exploration, and sea exploration. To do this, they removed manual farming and left it to be automated by your monster companions. This was a side feature in previous games, but you were still able to manually water your crops and such. Here, it's all automated which had an interesting effect of taking the farming, out of the farming/combat game.

Any other examples you can all think of? I'd be curious to learn some more!