u/BabeAssignment

▲ 44 r/HumanTorchMains+1 crossposts

S8 takes: Human Torch needs addressing

Hello; I am here to talk about just one thing, and it's the thing I care about most in this game, bar none: Human Torch. The character of Johnny Storm means a lot to me - I genuinely wish I didn't care so much about playing as him in this game, but I do - and I just want to have fun playing as my favorite superhero in this game where you're supposed to be able to do that (I have already tortured myself with him up to Champion and continue doing so just because I love him, and I do pretty well, but it is painful). As a foreword, I don't want him to be meta, I don't want a "flyer meta" or a "prime Torch" (wasn't around to play as him then anyway, lol); I just want him to be fun to play and not in an awful, weird place with his kit. With that out of the way:

The more I play Season 8, the more I double down on everything I was experiencing already in 7.5, and the more I want to reiterate the main thing Human Torch desperately needs...

He needs durability. REAL, accessible durability of his own (not some more damage reduction that is barely even felt), to free himself from requiring pocketing. More than anything else, he needs - essentially, and at least - what he already had but lost with the Fantastic Four team-up.

If that ability was retooled into a fire theme and baked directly into his own kit with new voice lines, he'd at least be in a relatively okay place.

Right now, he requires pocket healing, and it makes him, frankly, not fun and not a super useful teammate when you could choose another damage who does not require constant pocketing and get more value. And, at the end of the day, his main problem stems from the fact that he has no durability. Yes, he can dash, but once that's over, you're dead meat, because you have nothing else afterward, whereas other, similar heroes do. The idea that he should rely exclusively on mobility to survive came about after the team-up was removed, but that was also ended with his new cooldown. He needs genuine durability now more than ever, especially because it was something he already had once, and it was not overpowered/didn't cause major problems for those fighting him. All it did was help him not require pocket healing.

Johnny is meant to play close: the damage from his primary fire begins dropping off at 15m. He needs durability to even do his job and use his kit without the aforementioned constant pocketing. Not only does he need it to achieve it, but he needs it for newcomers to his kit to understand how his primary fire functions instead of playing so far away, because they're so weak, but still expecting to get value from his primary. And, again, it's actually exhausting playing as him and getting good value. You're better off swapping to someone else, especially if you don't want to explode from cortisol and struggle with his 0 durability and beg for pocket healing. You have to give 400% as Johnny whereas you give 100% on others, and it really hits hard against the fun factor - or, frankly, just the usefulness factor, exhausting yourself on a hero with a sub-par kit when you could just pick a better one instead.

The Fantastic Four team-up shield was already in the game; it was tested, and it was NOT overpowered. Johnny needs something like it in his own kit. Freeing him from needing pocket healing should've been the primary goal of his tweaks in the first place, so it's time to see that through.

He had the team-up, in fact, when he actually had more versatility than he does now in the right hands. This is not a jab at the dash; I am whatever on the dash now, and obviously I'm not here to ask for a reversion. However, the fact remains, his kit was altered so that he would have less ability to play into poke ("movement more predictable"), and that is exactly what has happened. Giving him durability now would absolutely not be overpowered, given what he was already doing before when he had it. All it would do is help him actually have a leg of his own to stand on, instead of needing that from his healers.

I am begging the devs to give him some durability. His kit could use a lot of help and tweaking and better characterization and various things to make him smoother and simply more fun to play, but what he needs first and foremost is still durability to free him from needing pocket healing. Playing as him right now is painful, and the most painful part is needing those pocket heals.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

Bonus rounds and further thoughts...

  • Human Torch's entire kit could seriously use sprucing up, QOL tweaking, expanding, and generally just better characterization. It's been altered and nerfed to many times that it is a confused mess now (and IMO it's very weird and out-of-character to make Johnny Storm basically an escape artist assassin like he's an actual ninja). With each new hero, we see more robust and characterized kits, while certain older heroes like Johnny are left not only in the dust but also rotting in a corner. There's so much more than could be done with his character, and it's depressing how dull he is overall.
  • The fact that he has no flamethrower is just sad. He deserves a flamethrower he can swap to as secondary fire, on a resource meter, to protect himself from close-range attacks (especially since he has no reflection of the fact that he is on fire, like dealing some damage to melee attackers). If nothing else, it'd be cool to have one just to reflect that, well, he should have one because he uses similar abilities a lot, to say the least, in comics and other media.
  • His primary fire is garbage and could really stand to be improved somehow. It is not even a secret that it's the hardest thing to hit with in the game - including when you should absolutely be connecting a shot but are getting no reg. I'm not asking for him to be hitscan (I genuinely don't want him to be), but it could just use some tweaking to make it less awful.
  • I am personally quite upset that there is no reflection whatsoever in his kit of his heat and energy absorption. It's an important part of his abilities in the comics. If nothing else, this could be used in some way to give him some semblance of durability. Torch is a character who is virtually immune to most forms of damage - he absorbs heat and energy, he melts bullets, he is so hot many enemies cannot approach, and even when physically beaten down, he will get right back up again (it is commented on in assorted comics; even Spider-Man mentions it when he slams Johnny headfirst into a wall ["What's that guy made out of anyway? He's already recovering!", just one example of many; Fantastic Four #207]), and he is not infrequently protecting others from various explosions, nukes, novas, etc, etc. He shouldn't be so weak as he is in this game. It's just weird and out of character, although so is the fact that he is being pigeonholed into a flanker role in Rivals (despite his current pocket heal requirement), whereas he ordinarily fights alongside his family/team.
  • Poor Torch needs a team-up. He's overdue one now. Again: removing the Fantastic Four team-up crippled his durability - it was all he had. And he hasn't gotten anything since, in his kit or even in another team-up (that he will then rely on and it'll inevitably be pulled out from under him again, hence why the durability should just be in his own kit).
  • Crazy mega bonus round: if he is remaining crippled because of fear of a flyer meta, then make his kit robust enough that he isn't always flying, and let his flight mode be as super fast and dangerous as it should be because it is not permanent. Flame on/off, spending time fighting on the ground alongside his team before flaming on to lay down zones and meteor back down to fight on the ground again and build up heat and basically be durable brawl alongside his team except with his 1 long-cooldown meteor he can use to crash in after achieving flight. Yes, I know this is an absolute pipe dream and people will tell me I'm being dumb, but I don't care, I think it'd be awesome, more interesting, better characterize him, and let us get to see him flame off once and a while (plus actually flame on in-game), while addressing the fact that being a flyer is keeping him in the gutter because the devs don't know how to handle them. We've got such robust kits now that it'd be possible at this point, and frankly, it still wouldn't be as robust as some.
  • Again: there is so much more that could be done with his kit to make him fun and interesting and reflect more of his abilities from the comics. Yes, I know - every hero is in that kind of situation in their own ways, and because of game balance, we can't reflect "all" of their abilities, etc. But as I am a Torch main and a Johnny fangirl, I'm here to talk about Torch, and it is sad that his kit doesn't really make you feel like you are the Human Torch essentially made of fire and with full power over fire except for, basically, the pyro prisons (which can be very finicky with placement) and exploding people with a meteor. There's just so many more fun and interesting things they could do with it without making it broken or overpowered - just more characterized and, well, fiery.

Ultimately, I'm still here talking about Human Torch all over the place simply because he is my favorite superhero, I love Johnny Storm, he's given me comfort and joy since my childhood and gotten me through a lot of hard times. It would be an absolute joy to play as him in a game like Marvel Rivals. I love his design, his animations, his voice, everything - but his kit, even after I have been playing with it up to and as a Champion, is simply a mess and is really sad to play with, and it doesn't feel like how Johnny Storm should play, anyway, as some kind of escape artist ninja with no durability to stand his ground, but it's what we have, so... I just hope he gets durability.

As I've said, I don't care about him being meta. I really don't. I simply want him to not be the wreck that he is right now and be on even slightly more even footing with the rest of the roster. I don't want him to be sky-high on top running lobbies, because then we're back around to getting pounded with nerfs, and that's the last thing I want. I just want him to not suck and feel awful to play. You have to play so hard and get so high on cortisol to get value out of him, and you had better be pocketed, and it's exhausting when you just want to play as your favorite superhero in a superhero game.

If nothing else, if absolutely nothing else, he desperately needs durability of his own so he doesn't require pocket healing. He had it in the FF team-up, and it didn't break the game; he needs it in his own kit.

p.s.: how about also giving Johnny one o' them really nice torn-up-clothes skins where we can see his abs, and like maybe a dance emote, that'd be super cool

I just really want Johnny to get some proper love in this game so he can be fun to play like other heroes. Okay bye

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u/BabeAssignment — 3 days ago
▲ 83 r/HumanTorchMains+1 crossposts

How playing Iron Man lately makes me feel:

It's frustrating to say the least, but it seems like it's were the devs want him, simply because he's easy to play due to the fact that his kit is very simple.

I would like to look at a patch and see Mister Fantastic, Scarlet Witch, Storm, Johnny, Blade buffs, but the devs simply don't seem to be on the same page as us.

And then they introduce characters that have soo much tools that completely destroy your character.

It's nice to get skins consistently, but what does that matter if he explodes once he appears on the battlefield?

I don't think I will play Iron Man much this season, if the devs don't want to put in the effort to make him better why should I?

u/BabeAssignment — 4 days ago

Keep asking for buffs. Don’t stop.

Keep being loud, guys. Don’t give up. It feels hopeless, but emergency patches do happen.

Don’t wait. Beg, if you want, lol (I have). Say you just want to have fun as Torch and we already tested it and responded and it’s time they gave us some tweaks, because this was a big change for him and it needs tweaking this season. Say anything, lol. We have to speak up or it’ll keep doing nothing.

I am exhausted of it all, but keep doing the things I mentioned here and contact them everywhere you can and don’t let them make you discouraged enough to stop. We all have to do it or it won’t matter.

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u/BabeAssignment — 8 days ago

Patch notes were real, no Torch buffs

Not even a team-up. Cannot fucking believe this tbh.

Well I can but I still hate it, I am sitting this season out no joke

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u/BabeAssignment — 9 days ago

Sooo... this is his first shop skin, right?

C'mon. Look at that. These artists are so keyed in. I will be a Cyclops main. Please let him be a main tank. I am manifesting Vanguard Scott Summers and I will play him so much. I am so excited, you guys.

u/BabeAssignment — 9 days ago

Season 8 cope thread

Season 8 announcements start tomorrow. We will likely see the balance patch at some point. Maybe I won't even be watching obsessively to share it here within the nanosecond it's posted (I probably will; sorry).

So here's a cope thread to hang out in. How are we all doing? What are we hoping for?

p.s.: unneeded, but: durability (I also hope they tweak the dash some to not feel so clunky, but mostly I want freedom from requiring pocket support)

reddit.com
u/BabeAssignment — 10 days ago

Another reminder to get loud about Johnny buffs. We were so strong when this first started. Now that we're approaching overtime, we can't start throwing. New season announcements will begin NEXT WEEK, and we need to push for Johnny to get some love in the balance patch.

Don’t let them convince you to be satisfied with this change even if you’re used to it now, Johnny still deserves buffs. Here’s what you can do over the course of this coming week and weekend to make sure we get Johnny some love (btw, without love we won't get any skins, either):

  • keep replying to official Marvel Rivals social media accounts asking that Johnny gets some love in the balance patch
  • post new threads on r/marvelrivals
  • reply to relevant existing threads talking about Johnny buffs
  • post new suggestion threads on the main Marvel Rivals Discord and upvote the ones you see about Torch (you can search), bump them with replies throughout the week
  • send some DMs at various points to the Marvel Rivals Support Bot on discord asking for Johnny buffs next season
  • talk about it everywhere you can. Content creator streams, etc, just all across the internet. Be loud.

Keep it simple. Use pathos (look it up). You literally just need to take a few seconds out of your days this week to post around Rivals places saying something like "Johnny is my fav superhero and it’d be great if he didn’t suck in this game." He is the lowest pick rate hero with 0 durability who needs pocket heals. You don't need to come up with your own balance patch, just ask for some love.

Even if we might disagree on the nuances of what exact buffs he needs, we should all agree that he needs something because he is genuinely just bottom-tier, but he won't get anything if we don't all work together.

Johnny mains get used to kinda sucking and overcome, it's what we do, but we shouldn't just keep accepting that. Don't let the devs keep abusing Torch mains into staying quiet and eating our scraps.
(and why tf doesn’t he have a new voice line on his ugly new dash btw? That’s how low effort it was)

It's time to mobilize again. Now is when it really matters. That early pushing will be for nothing if we don't see it through.

Don't feel like you need to cushion your request with "b-but not t-too many buffs though…", just ask for him to be fun and not need pocket heals, omg. Free him from pocket Ultron requirement.

We just want some love, NOT to be "running lobbies." Don't let this idea that "if we ask for buffs, we will become too good" stop you from asking for him to be lifted out of the actual GUTTER. Specific team comps potentially and right now very theoretically "existing" with tons of coordination you will not normally get shouldn't stop 1 specific hero from ever being remotely decent in their own right and just having a garbage kit without pocket heals.

We have to get back out there and push again and keep pushing leading up to May 12 especially, and leading up to next season on May 15 if we want to see this through and actually get our buffs that we were promised when we were told we'd get "tweaks" in 7.5 and then got a surprise rework with no compensation at all.

We can do it. Don’t give up. There aren’t many of us, so we NEED to pitch in. And we don’t need to be meek about it because no other mains are; we’re bottom tier already. We WILL get Johnny buffs if we try. It’s time he stopped going ignored.

Be as loud and strong as we were when this started. Don’t let the devs successfully weaponize their little “discovery period” into becoming okay with low-effort trash that still needs tweaking. Don't let them bully you into giving up when it matters most.

#Justice4Johnny

yeah sorry I soapboxed again but this really matters to me way too much okay? I love Johnny Storm and I swear I just want to play my favorite superhero in a superhero game and not need pocket healing and actually be fun. please, guys.

u/BabeAssignment — 17 days ago

The Reed mains are seriously campaigning on the main sub - I'm not saying we should do all that (I'm tired, boss), but this is just a reminder: we should still be asking for buffs. Even if you like the dash - and yes I know we all have to live with it, lol - Johnny still deserves some actual buffs (durability, plz...), and the dash could certainly be a lot smoother.

It won't be a crime to give buffs without some kind of weird nerfs on top to a character who has been rock bottom for ages and who should break free of needing pocket heals etc etc.

I like to think they are hearing us, but if we stop, they might not bother. Let's stay loud, all. <3

reddit.com
u/BabeAssignment — 18 days ago
▲ 1.2k r/UltronMains+1 crossposts

Double G and Big Z PLEASE just give us the Legendary Age of Ultron or Classic Skin 🙏

u/BabeAssignment — 20 days ago

I just do. He’s no longer fun to play, and the dash is clunky and gets you killed.

I have tried to like it. I really have. But I hate it so much.

“Skill issue”- I was very good on Johnny. I still do ‘fine.’ But I was doing so much better before, and that’s what frustrates me about all this gaslighting that he’s “buffed” now (a buff would make us all better). I do fine on other dash characters, even, and I also actually have fun. I’ll go 0 deaths on a character whose dash has no windup and isn’t clunky and/or gives overhealth/they have overhealth from another source to flank with/isn’t on a massive cooldown. This dash is just hot garbage.

“Relearn the character”- he isn’t as good at doing literally anything as he was before, including flanking.

“You’re just mad”- Yes. Yes, I am.

Johnny is my favorite superhero. I can’t believe they did this to such an already low pick rate hero who is infamously just not good (especially without an Ultron) and somehow convinced people to call it a buff. It’s not. And he lost his character from it, too. At best, one could argue this is just different and makes nothing actually better. But it genuinely makes him worse for gameplay and worse aesthetically and hurts his actual characterization (what little he had). He cannot do so many things now that he could do before if you just knew how to play him, and he sure doesn’t feel like playing as Johnny Storm.

”Flame on with a plan” really was an insult, and they knew exactly what they were saying when they said “make his movement more predictable.”

And guess what? He still needs pocket support (usually a personal Ultron) - and it’s even worse now. He has no freedom of mobility, and it was one of the only things he did actually have. They didn't even give us durability to pretend this change should be okay (note: I still do/will hate it, but they could have at least pretended to soften the blow).

Just had to get that off my chest. It’s sad watching other mains subs (other than our sisters in arms, Widow) getting to talk about things and meme and meanwhile we’re arguing about getting slapped by the devs, love or hate, when we were just supposed to be getting “tweaks” instead of having his entire kit torn apart by a crappy dash that is such an afterthought, untested, clunky, fun-removing wheelchair with a wind-up time and an insane cooldown (because Johnny needed another one) and an ugly animation and no voice line and- yeah it just feels so insanely low effort and we didn’t even get durability to escape pocket heals on top of all that. I’m just sad, you guys.

There are so many things they could’ve done and improved and changed for the better. I’m open to change. But giving us the worst dash in the game is just an insult.

reddit.com
u/BabeAssignment — 25 days ago