u/Bloodyjorts

Even if just on accident.

I am seriously beginning to wonder if HOTD is some kind of psy-op against women's stories/feminist stories in Hollywood, because my god. How do you just naturally do this bad of a job?

I am all astonishment, for all the wrong reasons.

So, yeah, I can obviously see that HOTD is trying to do something with Rhaenyra this season, and to not look like they are glazing her up so much. But it's not working.

Because she's not Mad, and she's not even really Evil or Deliberately Cruel when doing bad things, she's just being Dumb (and the narrative isn't defending the dumb shit she does like before). And I am not even sure if they realize how dumb they have made Rhaenyra. That is just frustrating to watch, and your audience will wander off. I'm even seeing some of the 'normie' audience they love so much starting to notice this.

They could have done a Walter White-esque arc with her, and it could have absolutely worked. But her bad decisions (when she actually makes a decision) aren't bad because they are cruel or delusional (although some are also these things), they're bad because they are fundamentally dumb.

Is forcing Alicent to go kill Aemond cruel? Sure. But it also dumb, and it is FAR more dumb than cruel. And she has far too much screentime for a character that is just dumb, with occasional forays into arrogance or crying.

What I fear happening is that as soon as Rhaenyra is off the Throne, she will be depicted like S1/S2 Rhaenyra again, the show will go back to glazing her up and acting like her decisions aren't dumb as hell. "The Throne Makes People Bad/Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely!", or something like that.

I dunno, it's like the writing is relatively coherent for Oldtown Gang and Drunk & Leg (even if you don't like the plot, you kinda get what they are doing, and it's working), but for like the main cast that takes up most of the screentime, it's just bad. This writers room is just bizarre, and should be studied to be used as a case study of what NOT to do.

So, I was thinking that, since this death is supposed to affect the Hour of the Wolf, I think it might be Oscar Tully.

He's the only Lad in the show; if he's killed, that opens the door to completely changing the ending period from Rhaenyra's death to Aegon's death (which we all thought they would change anyway). Because the Lads will not be marching on KL. And how even is Big Egg supposed to get his hands on Little Egg (I heard vague rumors he might, but nothing confirmed that he gets Little Egg earlier; but this may not come to pass). So why is Aegon poisoned? For what purpose? No Lads, no threatening Little Egg...

Buuutt....if he makes his mummy watch him kill Rhaenyra (since we know none of her kids will be there), Show-Alicent would probably poison him just for that alone. I could totally see it as Aegon having his victory, sitting on his 'wooden throne', thinking he won, and then Alicent kills him.

And I don't just mean Alicent and Rhaenyra running away together to sell oranges in Lys, or whatever.

I mean stuff like "No 1v1 God's Eye battle between Daemon/Aemond" or "Aegon Causes Brand New Problems On Purpose" or "The Two Betrayers Become Champions of the Smallfolk" type shit.

There's already rumors about Joffrey getting the Maelor treatment (especially with Rhaenyra sending Thorne not Thorne, that other guy whose name is escaping me, to collect him), in which case I could see Sunfyre eating riderless Tyraxes, rather than Grey Ghost/Moondancer. But I can see it getting even worse than this.

Like I particularly think they are going to fuck with the God's Eye/Aemond's death (even more so than Rhaenyra's). I could genuinely see everybody teaming up Marvel style against him, including Rhaenyra. And the writers thinking it's much more narratively satisfying, or something.

Thought we could have a thread where we all spitball about the potentially massive/absurd changes to the story.

...so on top of all the absolutely BULLshit that happens in this episode, it also seems like...the plot is not advanced AT ALL.

Like I didn't think it would, knowing the basic premise, but I thought mayhaps there would AT LEAST be references to things happening off screen. Maybe some character resolution. But nope.

But the only things that happen are Rhaenyra gets her period, pisses off the nobles in a show only scene, and we get resolution to the show-only fake Daeron plot in the same episode it happens in. Nothing else seems to happen. Everything else is status quo.

You do not have time for this, show.

Speculation involving Leaks/Spoilers for S3 below.....including THAT leak....

>!So, there has been a leaked image of Alicent in what looks like either a maid outfit or Alys's outfit (could be either). There's also been some leaked plotlines about Alys asking Daemon for Harrenhal and being denied, and Aemond...sexually desiring Alicent. And a wounded Aemond stumbling over to Alys begging for medical help and Alys smiling. I am beginning to wonder/fear that there will be no real Alys/Aemond relationship, and instead Alys sees a powerful man she can manipulate in a moment of vulnerability, and uses glamour (ala Melisandre) to make herself look like Alicent, and lead Aemond into believing she IS Alicent, and sleeping with him that way (which will be rape, it's a form of magical roofies/magical deception; but who knows if the writers will see it that way). Aemond would always think he is with Alicent, not Alys.!<

>!I have always wondered what they would do with Alys, since their relationship can be read as either consensual but dark (Alys as a willing bed partner), or nonconsensual (Aemond intimidating her into his bed, taking her as a 'war prize'). And even in S2, with how they portrayed Alys and all the hallucinating Daemon did, I did wonder if they would have her trying to use her magic on Aemond in a more straightforward "seductive/magical roofies" way.!<

>!No, it doesn't make a lot of sense how Alys can use glamour like Melisandre (considering Melisandre's was supposed to be connected to her necklace...though they did forget that in one scene), but it also doesn't make sense for Helaena to astral project herself to Daemon to give him a fourth-wall breaking pep talk either. The show plays fast and loose with magical rules (one of the worst thing you can do if writing a story with magic in it), so what's one more instance?!<

>!To be clear, I hate this idea, as I hate anything involving Aemond/Alicent or more rape (especially because I do not think HOTD handles sexual violence/abuse particularly well).!<

So....any thoughts?

Okay, so a legitimate source sent me some information (with some proof that seem legit) about the first four episodes, and they are lining up with what we know, so I thought I would post about them. You can believe the information or not. We will all know soon enough.

Cole: >!The earlier leak about the raping of innocents and Gwayne appears legit. Cole seems to become completely nihilistic once he gets to Harrenhal and there is no Aemond or Vhagar, and now he's outnumbered by Riverlanders. He wants to repay them in atrocities (unclear why), so he and his men leave a pile of severed arms, children's arms, on the steps of Sept.!<

Conceptual episode: >!Is episode three, and is all about the most underutilized character on HOTD....RHAENYRA. She does paperwork. Legit, whole episode is one big long small council meeting. This is an idea that COULD work, with good writers and like 14 episode a season. As it is, I cannot believe a whole episode will be focused on her in a meeting. There are discussions about the missing treasury, no money for a coronation, and how the High Septon doesn't want to crown her until she can prove Aegon is dead. Fake Daeron is introduced early in the episode, but revealed to be fake by the end. Possibly a surprise at the end of that episode (or fake Daeron is the surprise; a bit unclear).!<

Daeron: >!real Daeron will be around Ormund but treated like a background character until episode 4. Apparently some clever camera work.!<

Helaena: >!is apparently pregnant, was pregnant all during S2 and it was never mentioned, she's not showing, this is such bullshit and obviously just a ploy to try to make GRRM look like a liar.!<

Alicent:>!is apparently advising Rhaenyra. Sure, fine, what the fuck this bullshit might as well happen.!<

>!Funnily enough, although this reviewer seemed to like it (which is not shocking considering who it is) they also say that it's gonna be a PR disaster for Condal.!<

So, there are several things that bother me about the unconfirmed leaks about the Aemond/Alicent scene (briefly; Alicent begs Aemond to go to Harrenhal where she told Rhaenyra he would be, they hug goodbye, he kisses her on the lips, Alicent looks terrified). The gratuitous shock value, the future sexual humiliation of Alicent, the reductiveness, the lack of proper build-up, etc.

...but one thing that struck me is in regards to Aemond's love life in the books compared to this. Because, did they read about a young man finding a woman in her 30s/early 40 attractive, and immediately think not only "Mommy Issues" but also "He wants to fuck his own mom". I don't like the implication of this adaptive choice, as if the only way a young adult can be attracted to a woman whose 15 -20 years older is "Wants To Bang Their Mom". This feels like some kind of advanced state of (perhaps unconscious) sexism. And this doesn't live in a vacuum, not with the backdrop of the ageism targeted against women in Hollywood.

I am not going to pretend like I would have EVER liked this potential storyline from this writing team, because I probably wouldn't. I don't think they handle the subjects of incest or sex well. But I find it more offputting that it's Aemond and Alicent than anyone else. Why is the guy with a MILF girlfriend turned into "Actually Wants To Have Sex With His Mother"?

This is made all the more visually ridiculous because despite Aemond's age, Ewan is in his late 20s and is only like 5 or so years younger than Olivia.

Anyway, thoughts?