u/Hydr0gen_baby

Slugthrowers aren't commonly used in the Star Wars galaxy, mainly due to having much less ammo capacity when compared to blasters. They aren't significantly more powerful than blasters, and there is no real significant upside to them which balances out the ammo issue.

However, doesn't this extend to things like grenades and rocket launchers? If a blaster power pack holds enough energy to produce 10x as many shots as a real life magazine, shouldn't a hand grenade do the same? If they are, then why aren't slugthrowers and other solid projectile launchers much more common and powerful?

TLDR: The inhibitor chips are a perfectly good explanation for order 66 which allows for great writing, stories, characters and character interactions, as well as accomplishing some of the things other versions do.

The clones hating the Jedi, being indoctrinated into serving the Republic, being genetically engineered into following any order without question, or a combination of any of these are not objectively better than the inhibitor chips, and many of them are worse, as well as being riddled with holes that write them out of the equation anyway.

I have seen many people hating on the clone inhibitor chips, and claiming that different reasons for the clones committing order 66 are better writing for various reasons. I strongly disagree and believe that every other explanation either doesn’t work, are worse writing, or both. Besides the inhibitor chip version, there are 4 versions of order 66 that I will talk about, and I will only use the prequel trilogy as a basis for the clones and their relationship with the Jedi.

1: The clones disliked the Jedi for being bad generals and/or treating them badly

The Jedi treating them badly is ruled out instantly, because not only would it be basic human morality to treat these soldiers (who were literally born and bred to fight and die for the republic) well and with kindness, but the Jedi are a disciplined religion and order of peacekeepers who are literally supposed to, in general, be good people. The Jedi aren’t, and SHOULDN’T be assholes to the clones, and plenty of Jedi like Obi Wan, Yoda, and many others are clearly good and kind to the clones. This also doesn’t explain them mercilessly slaughtering younglings.

As for them being bad generals, I understand that that many Jedi may make for rather poor military generals due to the fact that they aren’t military generals, but peacekeepers who were drafted into war due to their political power and literal superpowers. However, not only would this not be a good reason for the clones to slaughter them all on command without hesitation, but many Jedi were actually good leaders and generals. An example being Obi Wan Kenobi. Yet Cody and his men shot at him without a thought. And again, doesn’t explain the younglings.

Then we are just left with the clones being straight up evil for no reason, which is stupid, defeats the whole purpose of this version which is to highlight the flaws and hypocrisy of the Jedi, and makes no sense as to how it would happen without it basically being coded into them like one the other versions which I will get to. It ruins the clones themselves.

Also, Palpatine would not put his trust in every single clone in the republic for some reason hating the Jedi, including their own generals. Order 66 was an absolute success, with about 10,000 Jedi turning into less than 50. Even if most Jedi were bad and most clones hated the Jedi, the amount of outliers would still be unacceptable. Palpatine would not put this to chance because not only would it just not work, but he doesn't have to put it to chance.

2: The clones were indoctrinated to be absolutely loyal to the republic and highest power

The purpose of this version is to give the clones a tragic choice with inner conflict, yet have the order be executed out of their own free will, and/or to be an allegory for fascism and the nazis.

However, no amount of indoctrination would cause basically every single clone to turn on the Jedi generals they had fought side by side with for so long, especially the clearly good ones like Obi Wan. This isn't indoctrination to hate a group of people who you have no connection to, but indoctrination to be loyal to the republic. That is not enough for effectively every single clone to not only go through with order 66, but do it so quickly without any conflict, hesitation or questions.

Suddenly getting a short voice call from a strangely burnt and evil sounding version of the chancellor with an evil robe and hood to kill all of the Jedi this instant, without any elaboration or reason to believe the Jedi were traitors, would in no universe be enough to go through with it like the clones did. There would absolutely be a huge number of clones questioning the order, questioning if it is a separatist plot, hesitating to go through with it, and a huge number of clones outright disobeying it, especially those with bonds to their Jedi generals.

We can see in Revenge of the Sith that the clones instantly obey the order without question. It is clear that the original intent of order 66 was supposed to be some mind controlling sleeper agent sort of thing. It is not a possibility for any of these versions where the clones have free will to be the case, since there is clearly no conflict, and it would not only risk, but guarantee disobedience on a level which is unacceptable.

3: The clones were indoctrinated and their genetic engineering to be more obedient to orders took away any hesitation or disobedience

This version seeks to accomplish the same thing as the previous version, while making it more plausible that it would work. However, since this tampers with the clone's free will, it both lessens the effect of the previous version and messes up the allegory.

It also only lessens the flaws of the previous version rather than removing them, and since the flaws are still there, the problem of if order 66 would be a success, or if Palpatine would even put his trust in this, still remains.

Any mix of indoctrination or genetic engineering is just a messy, convoluted compromise which doesn't even solve the problems of the indoctrination version. If you lean too far towards the genetic engineering being the reason for the clones' obedience, you basically just throw away the indoctrination approach.

4: The clones' genetic engineering makes them completely obedient to any order from a superior

The problem with this explanation is that it ruins everything. It throws away every reason you would have to go against the inhibitor chips, and it has none of the good things about the inhibitor chips. It is just the inhibitor chips but worse.

It makes the clones mindless drones from the start, sacrificing their character and making the only interesting things about them being looking cool, being good fighters and order 66 itself. It greatly reduces the things you can do with the clones in an era literally called the clone wars.

It has no allegory for nazis or anything, it is much less tragic than the clones having to turn on their generals either choosing between them or loyalty to the republic, as well as being less tragic than the clones having their individuality stripped from them and turning on their friends.

You could say that it gives a cool parallel to the droid army, but that really doesn't matter at all given what it sacrifices, and you can still have that in a different and more tragic way with the inhibitor chips stripping the clones of their individuality at the last moment and making them the same thing as droids, without having to sacrifice the individuality, humanity and connections they had beforehand.

I think the only reason people prefer this over the inhibitor chips is because they think the line in AOTC where lama su says the clones are totally obedient makes the inhibitor chips redundant. However, they don't realise what this version sacrifices. This is also quite a minor issue, and can be written off as the kaminoans just trying to sell a product.

This version worked for the prequels alone, but it is much worse and more limiting for expanded media which complements and improves the movies and franchise.

It also feels a bit dumb and exploitable to have an army which can be forced to do literally anything you ask as long as you are their superior, and it would make for worse soldiers if they don’t question any order.

Pros of the inhibitor chips and clone portrayal in TCW and post-chip media

The inhibitor chips solve every problem. They allow for the clones to be good, creative, independent soldiers. They allow inner conflict after order 66 by having the chips wear off or weaken. They can be hidden as regular brain matter.  They allow them to be likeable characters with good relationships with Jedi and with eachother, but having that all stripped away from them, making them in the end as robotic, or even more robotic than the droids, and forcing them to betray their friends in an instant.

Just look at order 66 in Jedi Fallen Order. Young Cal Kestis is on his way to training, and interacts with the clones. They talk to eachother as friends, high-fiving eachother, being friendly and fun with eachother. And all of a sudden, the clones who were having light-hearted conversations with this kid, suddenly try to shoot his master. Now, the kid is forced to run, desperately trying to avoid the clones who were once his friends, seeing his master die right in front of him. It is tragic, heartbreaking, great writing.

I much prefer this version of order 66. The characterisation and character interactions that the inhibitor chips allow, improving the clones themselves, other  interact with, the stories besides order 66, and order 66 itself.

I understand if you like the clones being simply indoctrinated into this terrible act, or the flaws of the Jedi causing the clones to turn on them, but those can’t be achieved for the many reasons that I have given, and these stories can be fulfilled by separate things.

None of the other versions are objectively better in certain aspects than the idea of the clones being humanised and then controlled by an inhibitor chip. I also understand that there were works in the EU which followed these other versions, but the flaws are undeniable, and none of the free will versions were the original intention in the movies, which clearly portray order 66 like some sort of mind controlling sleeper agent code. So you can’t really even say that it is a retcon which does away with everything that was established before. There are even all these different versions in the EU and the fandom, so it is clear that these were never the original intention.

I also understand that people may dislike how the inhibitor chips were done in certain ways like, for example, them being removable. But this isn’t a problem with the idea of the clones being born with a sleeper agent switch, merely something they added to it. And it makes sense that they would do that in a cartoon directed more towards children. This post isn't an attempt to defend this though, and I understand if you are disappointed that they decided to do this. However, any other problems with the execution are also not a problem with the idea, but I see people attacking the idea anyway.

In conclusion, the clones had to have their free will stripped away from them for order 66 to make sense, and the idea of the inhibitor chips works perfectly both writing wise and in the sense of not having flaws.

TLDR: The inhibitor chips are a perfectly good explanation for order 66 which allows for great writing, stories, characters and character interactions, as well as accomplishing some of the things other versions do.

The clones hating the Jedi, being indoctrinated into serving the Republic, being genetically engineered into following any order without question, or a combination of any of these are not objectively better than the inhibitor chips, and many of them are worse, as well as being riddled with holes that write them out of the equation anyway.

I have seen many people hating on the clone inhibitor chips, and claiming that different reasons for the clones committing order 66 are better writing for various reasons. I strongly disagree and believe that every other explanation either doesn’t work, are worse writing, or both. Besides the inhibitor chip version, there are 4 versions of order 66 that I will talk about, and I will only use the prequel trilogy as a basis for the clones and their relationship with the Jedi.

1: The clones disliked the Jedi for being bad generals and/or treating them badly

The Jedi treating them badly is ruled out instantly, because not only would it be basic human morality to treat these soldiers (who were literally born and bred to fight and die for the republic) well and with kindness, but the Jedi are a disciplined religion and order of peacekeepers who are literally supposed to, in general, be good people. The Jedi aren’t, and SHOULDN’T be assholes to the clones, and plenty of Jedi like Obi Wan, Yoda, and many others are clearly good and kind to the clones. This also doesn’t explain them mercilessly slaughtering younglings.

As for them being bad generals, I understand that that many Jedi may make for rather poor military generals due to the fact that they aren’t military generals, but peacekeepers who were drafted into war due to their political power and literal superpowers. However, not only would this not be a good reason for the clones to slaughter them all on command without hesitation, but many Jedi were actually good leaders and generals. An example being Obi Wan Kenobi. Yet Cody and his men shot at him without a thought. And again, doesn’t explain the younglings.

Then we are just left with the clones being straight up evil for no reason, which is stupid, defeats the whole purpose of this version which is to highlight the flaws and hypocrisy of the Jedi, and makes no sense as to how it would happen without it basically being coded into them like one the other versions which I will get to. It ruins the clones themselves.

Also, Palpatine would not put his trust in every single clone in the republic for some reason hating the Jedi, including their own generals. Order 66 was an absolute success, with about 10,000 Jedi turning into less than 50. Even if most Jedi were bad and most clones hated the Jedi, the amount of outliers would still be unacceptable. Palpatine would not put this to chance because not only would it just not work, but he doesn't have to put it to chance.

2: The clones were indoctrinated to be absolutely loyal to the republic and highest power

The purpose of this version is to give the clones a tragic choice with inner conflict, yet have the order be executed out of their own free will, and/or to be an allegory for fascism and the nazis.

However, no amount of indoctrination would cause basically every single clone to turn on the Jedi generals they had fought side by side with for so long, especially the clearly good ones like Obi Wan. This isn't indoctrination to hate a group of people who you have no connection to, but indoctrination to be loyal to the republic. That is not enough for effectively every single clone to not only go through with order 66, but do it so quickly without any conflict, hesitation or questions.

Suddenly getting a short voice call from a strangely burnt and evil sounding version of the chancellor with an evil robe and hood to kill all of the Jedi this instant, without any elaboration or reason to believe the Jedi were traitors, would in no universe be enough to go through with it like the clones did. There would absolutely be a huge number of clones questioning the order, questioning if it is a separatist plot, hesitating to go through with it, and a huge number of clones outright disobeying it, especially those with bonds to their Jedi generals.

We can see in Revenge of the Sith that the clones instantly obey the order without question. It is clear that the original intent of order 66 was supposed to be some mind controlling sleeper agent sort of thing. It is not a possibility for any of these versions where the clones have free will to be the case, since there is clearly no conflict, and it would not only risk, but guarantee disobedience on a level which is unacceptable.

3: The clones were indoctrinated and their genetic engineering to be more obedient to orders took away any hesitation or disobedience

This version seeks to accomplish the same thing as the previous version, while making it more plausible that it would work. However, since this tampers with the clone's free will, it both lessens the effect of the previous version and messes up the allegory.

It also only lessens the flaws of the previous version rather than removing them, and since the flaws are still there, the problem of if order 66 would be a success, or if Palpatine would even put his trust in this, still remains.

Any mix of indoctrination or genetic engineering is just a messy, convoluted compromise which doesn't even solve the problems of the indoctrination version. If you lean too far towards the genetic engineering being the reason for the clones' obedience, you basically just throw away the indoctrination approach.

4: The clones' genetic engineering makes them completely obedient to any order from a superior

The problem with this explanation is that it ruins everything. It throws away every reason you would have to go against the inhibitor chips, and it has none of the good things about the inhibitor chips. It is just the inhibitor chips but worse.

It makes the clones mindless drones from the start, sacrificing their character and making the only interesting things about them being looking cool, being good fighters and order 66 itself. It greatly reduces the things you can do with the clones in an era literally called the clone wars.

It has no allegory for nazis or anything, it is much less tragic than the clones having to turn on their generals either choosing between them or loyalty to the republic, as well as being less tragic than the clones having their individuality stripped from them and turning on their friends.

You could say that it gives a cool parallel to the droid army, but that really doesn't matter at all given what it sacrifices, and you can still have that in a different and more tragic way with the inhibitor chips stripping the clones of their individuality at the last moment and making them the same thing as droids, without having to sacrifice the individuality, humanity and connections they had beforehand.

I think the only reason people prefer this over the inhibitor chips is because they think the line in AOTC where lama su says the clones are totally obedient makes the inhibitor chips redundant. However, they don't realise what this version sacrifices. This is also quite a minor issue, and can be written off as the kaminoans just trying to sell a product.

This version worked for the prequels alone, but it is much worse and more limiting for expanded media which complements and improves the movies and franchise.

It also feels a bit dumb and exploitable to have an army which can be forced to do literally anything you ask as long as you are their superior, and it would make for worse soldiers if they don’t question any order.

Pros of the inhibitor chips and clone portrayal in TCW and post-chip media

The inhibitor chips solve every problem. They allow for the clones to be good, creative, independent soldiers. They allow inner conflict after order 66 by having the chips wear off or weaken. They can be hidden as regular brain matter.  They allow them to be likeable characters with good relationships with Jedi and with eachother, but having that all stripped away from them, making them in the end as robotic, or even more robotic than the droids, and forcing them to betray their friends in an instant.

Just look at order 66 in Jedi Fallen Order. Young Cal Kestis is on his way to training, and interacts with the clones. They talk to eachother as friends, high-fiving eachother, being friendly and fun with eachother. And all of a sudden, the clones who were having light-hearted conversations with this kid, suddenly try to shoot his master. Now, the kid is forced to run, desperately trying to avoid the clones who were once his friends, seeing his master die right in front of him. It is tragic, heartbreaking, great writing.

I much prefer this version of order 66. The characterisation and character interactions that the inhibitor chips allow, improving the clones themselves, other  interact with, the stories besides order 66, and order 66 itself.

I understand if you like the clones being simply indoctrinated into this terrible act, or the flaws of the Jedi causing the clones to turn on them, but those can’t be achieved for the many reasons that I have given, and these stories can be fulfilled by separate things.

None of the other versions are objectively better in certain aspects than the idea of the clones being humanised and then controlled by an inhibitor chip. I also understand that there were works in the EU which followed these other versions, but the flaws are undeniable, and none of the free will versions were the original intention in the movies, which clearly portray order 66 like some sort of mind controlling sleeper agent code. So you can’t really even say that it is a retcon which does away with everything that was established before. There are even all these different versions in the EU and the fandom, so it is clear that these were never the original intention.

I also understand that people may dislike how the inhibitor chips were done in certain ways, for example, them being removable. But this isn’t a problem with the idea of the clones being born with a sleeper agent switch, merely something they added to it. And it makes sense that they would do that in a cartoon directed more towards children. This post isn't an attempt to defend this though, and I understand if you are disappointed that they decided to do this. However, any other problems with the execution are also not a problem with the idea, but I see people attacking the idea anyway.

In conclusion, the clones had to have their free will stripped away from them for order 66 to make sense, and the idea of the inhibitor chips works perfectly both writing wise and in the sense of not having flaws.

TLDR: The inhibitor chips are a perfectly good explanation for order 66 which allows for great writing, stories, characters and character interactions, as well as accomplishing some of the things other versions do.

The clones hating the Jedi, being indoctrinated into serving the Republic, being genetically engineered into following any order without question, or a combination of any of these are not objectively better than the inhibitor chips, and many of them are worse, as well as being riddled with holes that write them out of the equation anyway.

I have seen many people hating on the clone inhibitor chips, and claiming that different reasons for the clones committing order 66 are better writing for various reasons. I strongly disagree and believe that every other explanation either doesn’t work, are worse writing, or both. Besides the inhibitor chip version, there are 4 versions of order 66 that I will talk about, and I will only use the prequel trilogy as a basis for the clones and their relationship with the Jedi.

1: The clones disliked the Jedi for being bad generals and/or treating them badly

The Jedi treating them badly is ruled out instantly, because not only would it be basic human morality to treat these soldiers (who were literally born and bred to fight and die for the republic) well and with kindness, but the Jedi are a disciplined religion and order of peacekeepers who are literally supposed to, in general, be good people. The Jedi aren’t, and SHOULDN’T be assholes to the clones, and plenty of Jedi like Obi Wan, Yoda, and many others are clearly good and kind to the clones. This also doesn’t explain them mercilessly slaughtering younglings.

As for them being bad generals, I understand that that many Jedi may make for rather poor military generals due to the fact that they aren’t military generals, but peacekeepers who were drafted into war due to their political power and literal superpowers. However, not only would this not be a good reason for the clones to slaughter them all on command without hesitation, but many Jedi were actually good leaders and generals. An example being Obi Wan Kenobi. Yet Cody and his men shot at him without a thought. And again, doesn’t explain the younglings.

Then we are just left with the clones being straight up evil for no reason, which is stupid, defeats the whole purpose of this version which is to highlight the flaws and hypocrisy of the Jedi, and makes no sense as to how it would happen without it basically being coded into them like one the other versions which I will get to. It ruins the clones themselves.

Also, Palpatine would not put his trust in every single clone in the republic for some reason hating the Jedi, including their own generals. Order 66 was an absolute success, with about 10,000 Jedi turning into less than 50. Even if most Jedi were bad and most clones hated the Jedi, the amount of outliers would still be unacceptable. Palpatine would not put this to chance because not only would it just not work, but he doesn't have to put it to chance.

2: The clones were indoctrinated to be absolutely loyal to the republic and highest power

The purpose of this version is to give the clones a tragic choice with inner conflict, yet have the order be executed out of their own free will, and/or to be an allegory for fascism and the nazis.

However, no amount of indoctrination would cause basically every single clone to turn on the Jedi generals they had fought side by side with for so long, especially the clearly good ones like Obi Wan. This isn't indoctrination to hate a group of people who you have no connection to, but indoctrination to be loyal to the republic. That is not enough for effectively every single clone to not only go through with order 66, but do it so quickly without any conflict, hesitation or questions.

Suddenly getting a short voice call from a strangely burnt and evil sounding version of the chancellor with an evil robe and hood to kill all of the Jedi this instant, without any elaboration or reason to believe the Jedi were traitors, would in no universe be enough to go through with it like the clones did. There would absolutely be a huge number of clones questioning the order, questioning if it is a separatist plot, hesitating to go through with it, and a huge number of clones outright disobeying it, especially those with bonds to their Jedi generals.

We can see in Revenge of the Sith that the clones instantly obey the order without question. It is clear that the original intent of order 66 was supposed to be some mind controlling sleeper agent sort of thing. It is not a possibility for any of these versions where the clones have free will to be the case, since there is clearly no conflict, and it would not only risk, but guarantee disobedience on a level which is unacceptable.

3: The clones were indoctrinated and their genetic engineering to be more obedient to orders took away any hesitation or disobedience

This version seeks to accomplish the same thing as the previous version, while making it more plausible that it would work. However, since this tampers with the clone's free will, it both lessens the effect of the previous version and messes up the allegory.

It also only lessens the flaws of the previous version rather than removing them, and since the flaws are still there, the problem of if order 66 would be a success, or if Palpatine would even put his trust in this, still remains.

Any mix of indoctrination or genetic engineering is just a messy, convoluted compromise which doesn't even solve the problems of the indoctrination version. If you lean too far towards the genetic engineering being the reason for the clones' obedience, you basically just throw away the indoctrination approach.

4: The clones' genetic engineering makes them completely obedient to any order from a superior

The problem with this explanation is that it ruins everything. It throws away every reason you would have to go against the inhibitor chips, and it has none of the good things about the inhibitor chips. It is just the inhibitor chips but worse.

It makes the clones mindless drones from the start, sacrificing their character and making the only interesting things about them being looking cool, being good fighters and order 66 itself. It greatly reduces the things you can do with the clones in an era literally called the clone wars.

It has no allegory for nazis or anything, it is much less tragic than the clones having to turn on their generals either choosing between them or loyalty to the republic, as well as being less tragic than the clones having their individuality stripped from them and turning on their friends.

You could say that it gives a cool parallel to the droid army, but that really doesn't matter at all given what it sacrifices, and you can still have that in a different and more tragic way with the inhibitor chips stripping the clones of their individuality at the last moment and making them the same thing as droids, without having to sacrifice the individuality, humanity and connections they had beforehand.

I think the only reason people prefer this over the inhibitor chips is because they think the line in AOTC where lama su says the clones are totally obedient makes the inhibitor chips redundant. However, they don't realise what this version sacrifices. This is also quite a minor issue, and can be written off as the kaminoans just trying to sell a product.

This version worked for the prequels alone, but it is much worse and more limiting for expanded media which complements and improves the movies and franchise.

It also feels a bit dumb and exploitable to have an army which can be forced to do literally anything you ask as long as you are their superior, and it would make for worse soldiers if they don’t question any order.

Pros of the inhibitor chips and clone portrayal in TCW and post-chip media

The inhibitor chips solve every problem. They allow for the clones to be good, creative, independent soldiers. They allow inner conflict after order 66 by having the chips wear off or weaken. They can be hidden as regular brain matter.  They allow them to be likeable characters with good relationships with Jedi and with eachother, but having that all stripped away from them, making them in the end as robotic, or even more robotic than the droids, and forcing them to betray their friends in an instant.

Just look at order 66 in Jedi Fallen Order. Young Cal Kestis is on his way to training, and interacts with the clones. They talk to eachother as friends, high-fiving eachother, being friendly and fun with eachother. And all of a sudden, the clones who were having light-hearted conversations with this kid, suddenly try to shoot his master. Now, the kid is forced to run, desperately trying to avoid the clones who were once his friends, seeing his master die right in front of him. It is tragic, heartbreaking, great writing.

I much prefer this version of order 66. The characterisation and character interactions that the inhibitor chips allow, improving the clones themselves, other  interact with, the stories besides order 66, and order 66 itself.

I understand if you like the clones being simply indoctrinated into this terrible act, or the flaws of the Jedi causing the clones to turn on them, but those can’t be achieved for the many reasons that I have given, and these stories can be fulfilled by separate things.

None of the other versions are objectively better in certain aspects than the idea of the clones being humanised and then controlled by an inhibitor chip. I also understand that there were works in the EU which followed these other versions, but the flaws are undeniable, and none of the free will versions were the original intention in the movies, which clearly portray order 66 like some sort of mind controlling sleeper agent code. So you can’t really even say that it is a retcon which does away with everything that was established before. There are even all these different versions in the EU and the fandom, so it is clear that these were never the original intention.

I also understand that people may dislike how the inhibitor chips were done in certain ways, for example, them being removable. But this isn’t a problem with the idea of the clones being born with a sleeper agent switch, merely something they added to it. And it makes sense that they would do that in a cartoon directed more towards children. This post isn't an attempt to defend this though, and I understand if you are disappointed that they decided to do this. However, any other problems with the execution are also not a problem with the idea, but I see people attacking the idea anyway.

In conclusion, the clones had to have their free will stripped away from them for order 66 to make sense, and the idea of the inhibitor chips works perfectly both writing wise and in the sense of not having flaws.