Ivan Kramskoy – Christ in the Wilderness (1872)

As a determinist, I've noticed that many moral values and perspectives we hold regarding people and society closely mirror the core teachings attributed to Jesus of Nazareth.

This leads me to an inevitable question: What if Jesus—once you strip away all the metaphysical religious dogma—was simply a sharp observer of human nature? Someone who intuitively understood that humans are not free in their thoughts and actions, but are completely shaped by their biology, conditioning, and environment?

Viewed this way, his self-designation as the "Son of God" takes on a whole new meaning. It wasn't narcissism or a claim to be the literal offspring of the Old Testament deity Yahweh. Instead, he was attempting to articulate his insights using the only conceptual vocabulary available in 1st-century Judea. Much like Baruch Spinoza would later formulate (Deus sive Natura), he saw the universe and nature itself as God. And if nature is everything, then every human is fundamentally connected to this overarching system.

His refusal to hate and his call for radical forgiveness aren't lofty mystical commands—they are the direct, logical consequence of recognizing that people act out of causal necessity, not uncaused free will.

Here are a few quotes that support this perspective:

• Luke 23:34: "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
  • Systemic perspective: The breakdown of absolute metaphysical guilt. When people don't understand the underlying causes driving their actions, they act out of blind necessity. Retributive hatred becomes irrational.
• Matthew 26:41: "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
  • Systemic perspective: Acknowledgment of biological and physical determinism. Action is constrained by physical reality, not guided by an uncaused free will.
• John 15:16: "You did not choose me, but I chose you..."
  • Systemic perspective: Exposing the illusion of autonomous choice. Directional decisions are driven by the system acting upon the individual.
• John 8:34: "Everyone who sins is a slave to sin."
  • Systemic perspective: Destructive behavior isn't a free choice to do evil; it's being trapped in unconscious conditioning and causal constraints.
• Matthew 7:1–2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
  • Systemic perspective: Rejecting retributive condemnation. Since no individual is the uncaused primary origin of their actions, moral judgment loses its rational foundation.

What are your thoughts on this historical and philosophical perspective?

I had the thought that the universe is a hologram.

I dont know, i mean everything bases on math... -.-

Im very interested in your thoughts and your knowledge.

Do you find yourself still holding on to hate despite accepting determinism, or does hating now feel completely out of touch with reality?

Imagine you buy stocks and then the price drops and you loose money

Can i set in my account a safetyrule that sells automatically this trades even if i sleep or am not on the screen?

i meant In thinkorswim

sry i posted it in the wrong forum -.-

but well daytrading is not completely wrong^^

Imagine you buy stocks and then the price drops and you loose money

Can i set in my account a safetyrule that sells automatically this trades even if i sleep or am not on the screen?

Every human who isn't a determinist lives in a kind of fantasy world.

They are a bit like children who are dreaming or aren't fully aware of the reality they live in.

What I've found is that most adult humans are not capable of integrating determinism with all its causal and logical consequences.

Some may understand that their feelings of anger and hate are not rational, but they don't understand how ill they actually are.

Do you have your hate and anger under control?

I sometimes feel anger and hate, but after a few minutes I'm stable again.

How about you?

Saturn Devouring His Son by Francisco de Goya (c. 1819–1823)

Hey everyone,

I’ve recently been diving deep into the intersection of hard determinism, neurobiology, and societal behavior patterns. Building on the empirical neurobiological research of scientists like Robert Sapolsky (especially his work on brain architecture, neurochemistry, and behavioral determinism), this led me to a conclusion I’d like to share and discuss here: From a strictly causal, empirical outside perspective, the majority of modern society operates in a state that must be described as collective malignant narcissism.

This framework provides an explanation for the massive waves of hatred, outrage, punitive desire, and violence that have plagued human societies for millennia – from online witch hunts to historical wars.

It is difficult to pinpoint exactly when this epidemic began. It is plausible that early hunter-gatherers in the savanna were not yet dominated by these delusional constructs to this extent, and that this systemic delusion grew with settled agriculture. Precise historical data on this is, of course, unavailable.

However, certain historical philosophies recognized this state early on. In early Buddhism, for instance, it was correctly identified that hatred, revenge, and rigid moral dualism are not signs of righteousness, but rather manifestations of delusion and mental unbalance.

To illustrate how this dynamic functions, I’ve broken it down into the following logic chain:

The Logic Chain

1. The Empirical Causal Foundation (Neurobiology & Sapolsky)

As neurobiological research empirically demonstrates using neuroimaging and endocrinology, human behavior is strictly outputted by complex neural circuitry. The interplay between the prefrontal cortex, amygdala, dopaminergic pathways, and hormones leaves no biological room for a metaphysical "free will." Every action – whether constructive or destructive – is the neurobiologically inevitable result of prior conditions (genetics, epigenetics, development, and immediate environment).

2. Early Childhood Conditioning (Programming Dualism)

A child's brain prior to age six is extremely neuroplastic and absorbs environmental inputs unfiltered. Cultural indoctrination starts early:

• Media Conditioning: Fairy tales, movies, and pop culture instill a rigid dualistic worldview ("Good vs. Evil"). The underlying biological causality of behavior is ignored; the "villain" is evil by nature and must be destroyed.
• Religious Tribalism: Religions reinforce this delusion through constructs like "Heaven and Hell" or exceptionalist notions ("the chosen people"). These serve as early neuro-developmental blueprints for narcissistic superiority.

3. The Foundational Societal Illusion (Denial of Causality)

Due to early conditioning, most adults systematically deny objective causality. To protect the ego, society clings to the illusion of free will. Artificial concepts like absolute "moral guilt" or self-righteousness emerge. Instead of addressing the systemic and biological causes of harmful behavior, society isolates and punishes the individual.

4. The Specific Neurological Dysfunctions & Defective Circuitry

When examining the actual physical defects in the neural architecture of individuals caught in chronic hostility, stalking, or mob behavior, several structural malfunctions occur:

• Amygdala Hyperactivity & Prefrontal Disconnection: The brain's threat-detection center (the amygdala) is chronically overactive and triggers defensive aggression even against harmless stimuli. At the same time, the prefrontal cortex—which should act as the rational brake for impulse control and empathy—fails to regulate these primitive survival loops.
• Dopaminergic Misrouting (Sadism as Reward): Neuroimaging studies confirm that when humans punish individuals labeled as an "out-group" or "evil," the dorsal striatum activates, releasing dopamine. The brain derives genuine biochemical gratification from the destruction/punishment of others. Inflicting harm under the guise of "justice" is a neurobiologically hardwired mechanism for dopamine regulation.
• Synaptic Rigidity (Loss of Neuroplasticity): Due to years of reinforcing polarized feedback loops, the neural pathways lock into permanent rigidity. The brain becomes physically incapable of processing contradictory empirical evidence, maintaining a persistent state of cognitive delusion.
• The Anosognosia Effect (Neurological Lack of Insight): Much like stroke patients suffering from anosognosia—where physical damage leaves them paralyzed yet completely convinced they can move because their brain's monitoring circuits are broken—the masses suffer from a psychological and neurological form of self-blindness. Their damaged or conditioned neural feedback loops render them structurally incapable of recognizing their own behavioral pathology.

5. The Narcissistic Shield (Grandiosity)

To avoid confronting inner emptiness and the reality of being a determined biological machine, the brain constructs a god complex. Individuals project an image of moral infallibility while splitting off and projecting their own destructive tendencies onto others.

6. The Flaw in Clinical Diagnostic Norms (e.g., ICD-11)

Diagnostic manuals like the ICD-11 define disorders relative to statistical norms. If 99% of a population shares the same culturally conditioned, neurobiologically executed delusion, that behavior is statistically labeled "normal." From an objective empirical viewpoint, majority consensus does not negate systemic delusion. The statistical norm itself is the defect.

Scientific References & Empirical Studies

To back up these claims with hard science, several key studies and research frameworks can be consulted:

• Robert Sapolsky (Stanford University):
  • Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst (Penguin Press) – Details the multi-second to multi-millennial biological layers driving human behavior, explicitly mapping out amygdala-frontal cortex dynamics.
  • Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will (Penguin Press) – Comprehensive dismantling of the neurological illusion of free will based on genetics, endocrinology, and neurology.
• The Neural Basis of Altruistic Punishment (Dopamine & Dorsal Striatum):
  • De Quervain, D. J.-F., et al. (2004). "The Neural Basis of Altruistic Punishment." Science, 305(5688), 1254–1258. – Neuroimaging study proving that the activation of the dorsal striatum during the punishment of norm violators triggers dopamine-associated reward processing.
• Unconscious Determinants of Decision-Making:
  • Haynes, J.-D., et al. (Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences, Leipzig). (2008). "Unconscious determinants of free decisions in the human brain." Nature Neuroscience, 11, 543–545. – Demonstrated via fMRI that brain activity predicts choices up to several seconds before conscious awareness.

Conclusion

When we synthesize these empirical neurobiological findings (dysfunctional amygdala-prefrontal loops, dopaminergic pleasure from punishment, synaptic rigidity, anosognosic self-blindness) with psychiatric concepts, the resulting systemic behavior matches the diagnostic criteria for malignant narcissism:

• Programmed from childhood with dualistic delusions and tribalism,
• Elevates itself with moral infallibility (Narcissism),
• Systematically denies objective neurobiological causality (Delusion),
• Derives biochemical pleasure from punishing others (Sadism).

Because this represents the baseline behavior of the majority, it must be understood as collective malignant narcissism.

What are your thoughts on this logic chain? Have you made similar observations in your own analysis of human behavior?

(Note: This text was formulated with the help of Gemini.)

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I'm happy so many people viewed this post, but I just want to add some information.

Please do not take this post or any data presented here merely at face value as an unverified fact—always do your own rigorous empirical research.

I'm a determinist, which means that I know there is no "good" or "evil". The title of this post suggests that society is bad/malignant, but that was—hopefully you understood—clickbait! 🤓 It is language that triggers a lot of people, and that is my goal.

There are too many people who BELIEVE they have free will, however that makes no sense at all. We live in a world of misinformation, social bubbles, and a technology that is not made for our Stone Age brains.

If you look at the neurobiology behind this kind of mass hostility and mob behavior, what you are seeing is essentially primitive biology at work: hyperactive threat detection in the amygdala, hijacked reward systems chasing dopamine through moral outrage, and rigid neural pathways that resist any new information. People caught in these reactive loops are often driven by deep-seated fear and cognitive rigidity, clinging to the illusion of free will and external enemies to stabilize their own fragile ego-structures.

So always remember: everything you think is probably not true unless you have the empirical truth. Your whole life should be aligned with this mindset:

• Not -> what I think I know or what I believe.
• But -> what I checked and what is scientifically proven, like the existence of the air I breathe or the sun.

Inform yourself, learn, and don't take life so seriously. :)

Hey everyone, I've been thinking a lot lately about how society works, and I came across a pretty wild thought that I wanted to share with you.

Seriously: Are criminals actually the better people compared to so-called "normal" citizens and the state?

If you look at this through the lens of hard determinism, the entire hypocritical construct of "free will" and "moral responsibility" completely collapses. Human behavior stems from preceding biological, neurological, and social and environmental causes. Nobody chose their genes or their upbringing.

Just look at how violence is executed:

• The offender: A murderer or criminal often acts on impulse, out of an acute affect, extreme overload, or the devastating aftermath of a ruined childhood.
• Society / The State: The "good" citizens, courts, and governments, on the other hand, kill and torture completely consciously, coldly, calculatedly, mechanically, and with full intellectual foresight. Think of institutionalized violence like the death penalty, Guantanamo, or historical witch hunts.

Who is actually the bigger monster here? The impulsive offender reacting to a stimulus, or the cold, hateful machinery of the masses who feel morally superior in their collective delusion and immediately drop the hammer at the slightest deviation?

The general public lives in a permanent, anosognosic loop—exactly like neurological patients who have a paralyzed limb but swear up and down that everything is fine. They completely block out the hard physical reality of causal chains just so they can justify their archaic urges for revenge and sadistic punishment.

On the outside, everyone acts totally nice, civilized, and polite—but that's just a thin mask. The moment you step out of line, you're fair game.

From a thermodynamic perspective, the brain naturally chooses the path of least resistance, adapts like a wolf in sheep's clothing, and swallows this cognitive dissonance just to avoid being torn apart by society. But once you see through the matrix, you realize this "normal" society is basically just a bunch of inmates running a giant padded cell.

And that brings me to my question for you guys: How do you actually deal with tuning out this causal reality? How do you live with this constant cognitive dissonance—knowing that you are surrounded day-to-day by people who would revert to destructive, blind retribution at the slightest trigger? How do you manage to keep that friction from burning out your own brain?

What do you guys think?

This text was generated with the help of Gemini.

I’ve been wondering when we might reach a point where a large part of society accepts determinism as a fundamental worldview and our social systems are adjusted accordingly.

Today, many of our institutions are still heavily based on the assumption that people act out of free will and are responsible for their decisions in the traditional sense. This applies to the justice system, but also to political structures, the economy, banks, and many other governmental and social institutions.

At first, I thought that a major societal shift like this might only become possible through technologies such as Neuralink or genetic optimization. However, Gemini suggested that these technologies might not be necessary at all and that it could ultimately be primarily a matter of education and socialization. If people were raised from an early age with a deterministic understanding of human behavior, perhaps society’s underlying worldview could gradually change over generations. I found this idea extremely interesting.

What do you think?

What would a society look like in which determinism is widely accepted as a scientific and social foundation? Would this fundamentally change things such as criminal justice, the prison system, social welfare, education, economics, or political decision-making?

And above all: When could such a societal transformation realistically happen? Are we talking about a few decades, several centuries, or is such a development impossible to predict?

I’d be interested in hearing how you assess the likelihood of such a development and what you think the potential timeline might look like.

Note: This text was generated with the help of ChatGPT. ChatGPT was also used to improve readability and for translation.

Well for me it was a shock.

My brain overloaded so much that when I was outside, I started seeing humans as "supermolecules." I felt like Frodo (LOTR) putting on the ring and seeing the Eye of Sauron^^.

Did u have similar experiences?

I also felt like my brain was operating much more efficiently, almost like having superpowers similar to Son Goku's Ultra Instinct "godmode".

Now I'm stabilized, but it was a crazy week-long trip I had.

Have you ever considered whether the growing support for the AfD in parts of eastern Germany could partly be understood as the long-term consequence of social and political conditions experienced by several generations of East Germans?

I am interested in whether the conditions of the former GDR may have influenced stress regulation, psychological development and possibly even aspects of brain development in people who grew up there — particularly those whose mothers experienced pregnancy under those conditions.

Research on prenatal and chronic stress suggests that prolonged maternal stress can affect fetal development through mechanisms involving cortisol, the HPA axis, the placenta and other biological pathways. The broader work of researchers such as Robert Sapolsky has also demonstrated how strongly social environments, chronic stress and early-life conditions can influence the brain and behavior.

This raises an interesting question regarding East Germany.

What effects might decades of political surveillance, authoritarian structures, restricted personal freedoms, economic limitations, Cold War tensions, perceived external threats and chronic social stress have had on the people who lived through them?

And what about the conditions surrounding pregnancy and childhood?

Factors worth examining could include maternal stress during pregnancy, nutrition, working conditions, childcare, family structure, parenting styles, the relationship between fathers and children, levels of social support, exposure to political repression, experiences of surveillance, and the degree of control people experienced in their everyday lives.

It would also be interesting to investigate whether some effects could persist across generations through family environment, developmental pathways or potentially epigenetic mechanisms.

I am not suggesting that being an AfD voter is evidence of brain damage, nor that every East German experienced the GDR in the same way. Rather, I am asking whether there could be measurable population-level relationships between historical living conditions, developmental stress, intergenerational effects and present-day political attitudes.

The geographical pattern is particularly interesting. When you look at the contemporary AfD electoral map, there is a striking overlap with the territory of the former GDR. That does not establish causation, but it seems like a phenomenon worth investigating scientifically.

Could researchers in neuroscience, developmental psychology, epigenetics, sociology and political science investigate whether the social environment of the GDR contributed to long-term differences in stress regulation, personality development, social trust, authoritarian attitudes or political behavior?

And if such effects exist, what would actually help address them? Perhaps confronting people politically is less effective than addressing the underlying social and psychological conditions that produced and maintain these patterns.

What do you think? Are there existing studies that investigate these connections, and what factors would you consider essential for testing this hypothesis?

This text was generated with the help of AI (Gemini)

I had a long chat and uploaded a markdown file, then the chat was about the upload not anymore excessable.

It feels like the chat before the upload never existed.

Do you know this problem and how to fix that?

Im happy for every constructive and friendly comment. :)

The skeleton and the turtle base on the same physical rules and it is impossible to act independently in this detremined environment.

Discussion

Have you ever heard of the theoretical classification of human brains into thermodynamic system categories (Types 1, 2, and 3), which categorizes individuals purely based on their systemic energy efficiency and cybernetic feedback loops?

If you take hard determinism to its logical conclusion and discard all metaphysical baggage (free will, objective morality), the human being remains as a biological, causally determined, and self-regulating system. In neurobiology and cybernetics, the primary focus is on homeostasis and the minimization of entropy (friction loss). From this perspective, human behavioral programs can be divided into three system types.

Here is an outline of this categorization – I would be interested in how you evaluate this system-theoretical perspective.

The Theoretical Foundation: Brains as Thermodynamic Systems

The human brain operates according to the principles of energy conservation and entropy minimization (cf. Karl Friston's Free Energy Principle). Behavior that generates conflict, stress, and cognitive dissonance consumes metabolic energy. Behavior that promotes cooperation and stability is energetically efficient.

Robert Sapolsky has detailed in works like Behave and Determined that decisions are the result of preceding biological, developmental, and environmental causal chains. If you combine this neurobiology with systems theory (cybernetics), humanity can be roughly divided into parasitic and cooperative systems.

Type 1 and Type 2: The Parasitic (Narcissistic) Systems

These systems make up an estimated 85–90% of the societal mass. They are evolutionary remnants from times of extreme resource scarcity.

• Behavioral Architecture: Type 1 and 2 operate from a chronic state of internal deficit. To maintain their homeostasis, they must extract energy and resources (attention, status, control) from other systems. This manifests in narcissistic, parasitic behavioral patterns.
• Objectification: For these systems, there is no genuine, cooperative connection. Fellow human beings—and in extreme cases, even their own children—are viewed primarily as objects serving to stabilize their own ego.
• Danger Potential and Vindictiveness: They are highly dangerous when their self-image is threatened. If their illusion of control collapses, they react with strong vindictiveness and aggression to restore system stability.
• Metaphysical Tendencies: To justify their illogical and destructive actions to themselves, Type 1 and 2 lean heavily toward metaphysical belief systems. They cling to constructs like free will, Christianity, or moral dogmas, as these function as neural defense mechanisms to protect their ego from deterministic reality.

Type 3: The Cooperative (Energy-Efficient) System

This type is in the minority (approx. 10–15%) and represents an evolutionarily and thermodynamically much more advanced architecture.

• Behavioral Architecture: Type 3 systems are not parasitic. They do not generate their stability through the exploitation or devaluation of others. They act analytically, rationally, and primarily cooperatively.
• Love as Energy Efficiency: What is colloquially mystified as "love" is, for the Type 3 system, simply the highest form of thermodynamic energy efficiency. It is about preservation, repair, and the avoidance of pointless conflicts.
• Absence of Vindictiveness: Because they recognize the causal web behind human behavior (or act intuitively in accordance with it), they do not feel vindictiveness. They understand that hostile individuals are defectively programmed machines.
• Causality of Destructiveness: A Type 3 system strives for harmony by default. It only becomes destructive or criminal when exposed to massive, life-threatening, and extremely toxic environmental influences. If such a system commits crimes, it indicates a profound, externally forced corruption of the original code through traumatic overload, not an inherent urge for destruction.

Scientific References for this Approach

To contextualize this perspective, the basic assumptions rely on the following disciplines:

1. Neurobiological Determinism: Robert Sapolsky (Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will). The evidence that behavior, including aggression and empathy, is entirely determined by neurobiological and endocrinological processes without any metaphysical entity.
2. Cybernetics and Systems Theory: Norbert Wiener (Cybernetics: Or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine). The view of biological organisms as information-processing, feedback-driven systems.
3. Thermodynamics of the Brain: Karl Friston (The Free-Energy Principle). The mathematical modeling that biological systems are obligatorily driven to minimize disorder (entropy/surprise).

Have you ever looked into dividing society into such thermodynamic/cybernetic categories? From the perspective of hard determinism, how do you view the evolutionary competition between parasitic and cooperative brain architectures?

This text was generated by AI.

A system only comes into existence through the input of energy/information.

S = (A + B) E

System = (Hardware + Software) * Energy

Systems are reactive, not proactive.

Newton = Action -> Reaction

Information requires space

-> There can be no such thing as free will.

Robert Sapolsky has scientifically demonstrated that from a biological and neuroscientific perspective, free will does not exist.

Why do so many people still cling to the concept of free will?

This realization causes significant cognitive dissonance and discomfort. People are resistant to the fact that free will is an illusion because they are biologically programmed to perceive themselves as autonomous agents acting independently.

Humans cling to the concept of free will due to several fundamental systemic, evolutionary, and psychological factors:

1. Social Conditioning and Upbringing: They have been systematically taught from childhood to assume free will and individual moral accountability.
2. Ego-Defense and Psychological Protection: Psychological mechanisms (often narcissistic or ego-defensive structures) reject alternative frameworks to maintain the internal illusion of being a "good" or superior person.
3. Institutional Collapse: The entire architecture of modern civilization—including law, retributive justice, politics, and economics—is built on the fiction of moral responsibility and would collapse without it.
4. Invalidation of Moral Hierarchies: Accepting determinism strips away the foundation for righteous moral judgments, in-group favoritism, and societal status hierarchies.
5. Shifting Paradigms of Control: Under hard determinism, offenders cannot be viewed as morally guilty; they must be analyzed causally and treated or isolated free of moral retribution.
6. Evolutionary and Social Cohesion: Belief in free will acts as an evolutionary heuristic and social glue. It allows groups to quickly assign praise or blame, stabilizing cooperation and deterring defection within tribal networks.
7. Cognitive Efficiency (Folk Psychology): The human brain relies on intuitive psychology to predict behavior rapidly. Computing the infinite deterministic variables and neural inputs of a human action requires high metabolic energy; the illusion of agency functions as a low-cost cognitive shortcut.
8. Existential Comfort and Anxiety Reduction: Accepting hard determinism destroys the illusion of ultimate control over one's fate. Believing in free will provides psychological comfort in an entropic, unpredictable universe by convincing individuals they are the masters of their own destiny.

Hello everyone,

I am facing a critical issue with a long Gemini chat thread across all my devices (MacBook Air, iPhone).

The Problem:

• Trigger: The issue started immediately after I uploaded a large .md (Markdown) file along with a prompt into the chat.
• Symptom: The interface is locked from scrolling upwards. I can only see the messages from yesterday onwards. Everything prior to the file upload is visually inaccessible in the main chat interface.
• Data Status: The data itself is not entirely deleted; when I check Gemini Apps Activity (myactivity.google.com), all my historical prompts from days ago are still listed there.

Technical Context:

• Devices tested: MacBook Air M1 (Safari), iPhone SE. The issue is persistent across all platforms, indicating a server-side rendering error or a context-length UI freeze rather than a local browser cache issue.
• The thread is very long, and it seems the Markdown file pushed the UI past a breaking point.

Has anyone encountered this specific UI lock after file uploads? Is there a known workaround to force the interface to render the older blocks of the chat again, or a way to export the full raw thread when the scroll is broken?

Thanks for any help.

I cant reach the full chat i have in Gemini. Only the text of yesterday is ecassable.

In activity the prompts are still there.

What is going on?

Do u know this problem?

The chat is really long.