u/Imaginary_Golf548

After reading various interviews with George Lucas and looking at the initial concept art for TFA (based on Lucas's story treatment for Episode VII), I've concluded that this is what we could have had as an opening crawl (I've decided to name the film after the future Rey movie, which is also the name of a series of novels from the old Expanded Universe famous for exploring the post-ROTJ era in depth; the truth is, we don't know the title Lucas originally envisioned). I'm not sure what you think and would like to hear your opinion.

The implication of this crawl (which is obviously just my interpretation, nothing more) is obviously that the movie then shows, as suggested by Lucas and the artwork, the Millennium Falcon being intercepted by a revealed still-living Darth Maul and his Shadow Collective henchmen; Sam Solo might have been captured while Kira Solo returned to Luke and his Jedi Temple; Darth Talon would have made her introductory appearance on a lawless planet where she would have found one of Luke's Jedi, seduced him, and then murdered him; she would likely have been tasked with literally seducing Sam to the Dark Side; the rest is more nebulous, but the Imperials would have probably sworn allegiance to Maul.

At the end of the trilogy, the threat would have been crushed by Leia herself, who had become Supreme Chancellor of the New Republic (Lucas saying that she would therefore be the true "Chosen One"), and the new Jedi Order would have endured. Sam's fate is unknown, but there could have been a strong dose of drama with a confrontation between the young Jedi Kira and her brother who had become a Sith aspirant (perhaps a Sith apprentice directly if Maul or Talon were to die at some point). We would also have had an exploration by Luke of the nature of the Force, in connection with midi-chlorians and the Whills (we don't completly know whether Lucas would have considered the Whills as a kind of microbiotic deity or, as he envisioned in his drafts for ROTS, as Force shamans, with the Order of the Whills being suggested as the precursor to the Jedi Order and having known the secret to becoming a Force Spirit).

I know this post is just speculation, but I find it interesting and stimulating.

Edit: It seems that Luke would have been at most a hermit during the first half of Episode VII, and this is to be qualified, because we know that Jedi were wandering around the galaxy (the one who is killed by Darth Talon, proof that the Jedi Order was not destroyed), Sam only turned to the Dark Side during the movie (at the beginning, he is with Kira on Felucia for their mission concerning the Shadow Collective, according to the concept art) and also, Luke's hermitage would not have lasted long, because George Lucas said that Luke did end up restoring the Jedi Order at the end of the trilogy (we also have concept art of him training Kira without too many problems); I suppose the idea was that Luke recreated the Jedi Order and then temporarily distanced himself from it, probably to meditate and reflect on the Force (with all the reflections on the Whills and midichlorians wanted by Lucas) but that he quickly left his imposed and temporary exile when Kira, his niece, went to get him.

We will take the most eloquent example of the InterGalactic Banking Clan to show how TCW has progressively done whatever it wants with the worldbuilding of the Prequels and created an incoherent mess.

First, let's define what the Intergalactic Banking Clan is in the movies as released by George Lucas in their definitive version. To do this, we must first analyze what the Trade Federation is in TPM. In TPM, we discover that the Republic is home to megacorporations, companies that have become states, controlling multiple systems (as mentioned by Qui-Gon with “It'd be no different than if we landed on a system controlled by the Federation”), possessing droid armies, and a senator (with Lott Dod). In AOTC, we discover that the Trade Federation joins the CIS, as do other megacorporations. We must therefore assume that the Banking Clan is the same as the Trade Federation. San Hill even states that "The Banking Clan will sign your treaty," meaning that it will completely join the Separatists, as other systems and the other megacorporations present on Geonosis have done. In ROTS, we still see San Hill at the head of the CIS, along with others in megacorporations, which Palpatine even refers to as "Separatist leaders". This was respected by the EU, notably in Tartakovsky's CW, where the Republic invades the Banking Clan's capital, Muunilinst.

Then comes TCW.

First, in episode 4 of season 1, "Destroy Malevolence", the Banking Clan is still considered a megacorporation that has transitioned from a member state of the Republic to a member state of the CIS, as suggested by the prequels and the EU: "Yes. It was secretly given to him by the supreme executive of the Banking Clan himself. If they leave the Separatist alliance, it will go a long way toward shortening this war."

Then comes episode 4 of season 2, “Senate spy”, and episode 10 of season 3, "Heroes on Both Sides," where we learn that the Trade Federation was actually split in two by the Clone Wars, with one part still within the Republic and the other now within the CIS, even though the Republic half remains secretly allied with Count Dooku. The Banking Clan is presented in the same light, with a senator in the Republic. This is a major retcon by Filoni. He attributes it to Lucas, though this is questionable, as we have evidence that he repeatedly attributed ideas to Lucas that didn't originate with him. Moreover, the concept remains bizarre, because it admits that some of the megacorporations are completely aligned with the Separatists, but that the parts in the Republic are neutral and have the right to sell weapons to both sides, while still being, well, in the Republic: it's ludicrous.

Should we assume that the corporations are in fact extra-republican, but with representation in the republican senate to facilitate cooperation, and that a faction is fully aligned with the Separatists while the rest is neutral? Perhaps, but that's convoluted and not at all what we can understand by looking at the Prequels; indeed, it is suggested in AOTC that the corporations are not extra-national, but rather integral parts of the Republic, their joining the Separatists being seen as a betrayal of it: "What you are proposing could be construed as treason." (Shu Mai). One of the problems seems to be that Filoni treats these commercial entities too much like simple corporations, and not like megacorporations (i.e., states with territories, heads of state and armies).

It's a clumsy attempt by Filoni to add nuance to something pre-established by making it ridiculously absurd and complex: “Because something that's really come to light in The Clone Wars series is that George sees it as Separatists, Republic, and then in the middle is big business. The corporations. […] That all needs to come to light with Nute Gunray, Wat Tambor, San Hill, Passel Argente, all those guys and explaining who the Separatist Council is that you see in the films, versus the Separatist Senate, versus the Trade Federation and the guilds. The Commerce Guild, the Trade Federation, the Techno Union. That's why we have all those guys we've invented that have nothing to do with the Council that you see. Because in the EU, its always been seen as the Trade Federation are Separatists, but that's not true. Obi-Wan Kenobi witnessed a business deal going on. And in the business deal, he saw those corporate leaders telling Dooku they're going to sell him arms and sell him droids to build an army. That doesn't mean that those corporations don't also have deals with the Republic to give them arms, but it got blanketed in all the media that it was very black and white. But the Clone Wars is anything but black and white, as we know.” (It should also be noted that Filoni presents the provision of the corporations' armies to Dooku as a sale, which it was not in AOTC, but rather, well, a provision: "The Techno Union army is at your disposal, Count."; "Our friends from the Trade Federation have pledged their support and when their battle droids are combined with yours, we shall have an army greater than any in the galaxy.")

Except, of course, TCW couldn’t leave it at that! Because then comes episode 5 of season 6, “An Old Friend,” which retcons what the Banking Clan is AGAIN. We discover that it’s actually the equivalent of the IMF, therefore a neutral and supranational bank, separate from the Muun government (the Muun senator is now the senator of the Muun government, no longer the Banking Clan). And which, at the end of episode 7 of season 6, is nationalized by the Republic. Uh… okay… I get the metaphor, with the dystopian idea of ​​the USA nationalizing the IMF and using it for their own ends to control the world. But, well, what did San Hill do in AOTC? What did he still represent in ROTS to seat at the Separatist Council? Because what joined the Separatists when the Banking Clan (or whatever part of it) signed the treaty of Dooku? No territories… No droid armies… Money and officials, maybe? Great, I guess… But what's left after three years of war, especially since San Hill only took a fraction of the Banking Clan with him in AOTC? Do you see how flimsy this whole thing is? How we went from something simple and clear suggested by the movies to something profoundly complex, forcefully nuanced, and actually completely incoherent?

In short, no, TCW didn't fix the Prequels or improve their world-building. The CWMMP was better. Sorry for the rant.

(Look at the pictures first)

So, maybe I just missed it (it's possible, and please let me know if that's the case), but I don't think Filoni even mentions Tartakovsky once in the featurette (go see it on Youtube). Yet, it's blatantly obvious that this arc of TCW (episodes 1-3 of season 4) is a "remake" of episodes of the micro-series. All the elements are there, just with added bits to stretch a 3-minute story into a full hour-long one.

At this point, I'm wondering, what was the point of TCW? Also, what concrete contribution did Filoni make to the Star Wars franchise, other than things that are off-topic to the established universe of the saga (all his esoteric stuff in particular)? Oh, sorry, there's Ahsoka! That makes everything better! It's like the Thrawn trilogy and the Ahsoka show. Why should HE reinvent someone else's work, take all the credit, and not involve the original writers? Let's remember how Disney treats Zahn, essentially making him a minor writer... I maintain that CW 2003-2005 is better than TCW, because TCW stole a lot of material from it (and other EU stuff, without respecting them fully and without crediting the works or the original authors), just making it longer and more pointless.

I'll remind you that the introduction of Illum and the lightsaber manufacturing process, shown by Filoni in episodes 6-9 of season 5 of TCW, was already presented by Tartakovsky. The ARC Troopers, introduced by Filoni in episodes 1-2 of season 3, were first shown on screen by Tartakovsky. The introduction and ending of Ventress (even though she survives in the excellent Republic comics) are also initially presented by Tartakovsky. The events leading up to the Battle of Coruscant for Anakin and Obi-Wan Kenobi at the beginning of ROTS, as presented by Filoni in season 7 of TCW, were already fully explored by Tartakovsky (Filoni's reference to Shaak Ti is also, in essence, an admission of failure, since Filoni didn't even attempt to depict Palpatine's capture and relies on the now non-canon Tartakovsky's work, which he knows but never cites).

Anyway. I'll also remind you that Tartakovsky was Lucas's first choice to direct TCW, and Filoni was merely a replacement. Furthermore, TCW was only ever intended to be a spin-off of CW 2003-2005, between Chapters 21 and 22, not the foundation of an entire parallel universe (this now ever growing "Filoniverse"), just a side story. I would also like to note that Tartakovsky's 2003-2005 CW is particularly respectful of the continuity of the movies, especially in the characterization of characters like Anakin; it includes all the narrative events one would expect from an interquel between AOTC and ROTS, such as Anakin's knighting, the introduction of Grievous and the Battle of Coruscant; the micro-series illustrates events referenced in ROTS, such as Dooku training Grievous and telling him to run away from lost fights, why Grievous coughs and why Mace thinks he's a coward, and how Palpatine was kidnapped, the start of the Separatist invasion of Kashyyyk and the Outer-Rim Sieges; Finally, the micro-series doesn't deliberately and forcibly contradict the movies, unlike Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting Dooku together in TCW, Obi-Wan fighting Grievous, Anakin having a Padawan, the Jedi knowing about Order 66 and that Dooku commanded the clone army on behalf of Darth Sidious, the clones having personalities (which is denied in AOTC), the Nightsisters' fantasy magic, the return of Darth Maul, outlandish technologies, Boss Nass no longer being the leader of the Gungans (even if he still is in the end of ROTS), the megacorporations no longer being members of the CIS (while it was a plot point in AOTC and their leaders were still the Separatists in ROTS), etc.

It can't be stressed enough how mediocre Filoni has always been and how much of a problem he's been for the franchise. Some good things were done under his direction and in his shows, that's undeniable, but I wonder if it's worth the price to pay compared to everything else.

However, I'd like to add a nuance here. We shouldn't unfairly criticize Filoni either, and many of the negative things introduced by TCW originated with George Lucas, such as Anakin having a Padawan and the return of Darth Maul. Filoni did a lot of executing, that's true. However, he can be criticized for continuing to carry the torch far beyond what Lucas himself intended. For example, while Lucas wanted Ahsoka to die before the end of TCW to maintain consistency with ROTS, Filoni persuaded him to simply write her out of the show. This allowed him to bring her back after the reboot and keep her relevant into the post-ROTJ era, and he seems to be toying with the idea of ​​making her a Force goddess connected to the Mortis lore. I'd also like to point out that, for Lucas, TCW was primarily a testing ground for narrative and technological experimentation for him and his teams. For example, it was he who came up with the idea for the episode in season 1 where Dooku is imprisoned with Obi-Wan and Anakin, which doesn't make sense with ROTS, but is narratively interesting. Lucas enjoyed seeing his employees have fun with the franchise, so, knowing Filoni was a Godzilla fan, he suggested that he create the season 2 storyline centered on the Zillo Beast, just to make him happy. Also, when Filoni had ideas that challenged the continuity of the movies, Lucas preferred to let him have his way, just as he did with the other EU writers, because for him, nothing is worse than stifling the creativity of authors. Furthermore, after season 2 of TCW, Lucas became much less involved, barely appearing in featurette footage and existing only through Filoni's dubious accounts. It also seems that Lucas, while knowing his ideas could be detrimental to the established CWMMP, expected Filoni and the Story Group to resolve every issue. While the Story Group has strived, with some success, to see this through to the end, particularly regarding the Mandalorian lore, it's clear that Filoni hasn't really tried (what was the point of remaking in TCW arcs already done in CWMMP works, like the battles of Kamino and Mon Cala?). What we can therefore criticize Lucas for is his carelessness with TCW and the continuity problems created both with the EU and with his own movies. Lucas certainly bears his share of responsibility. However, Lucas created TCW 18 years ago and completely stopped working on it 14 years ago. Filoni, on the other hand, is still involved, and the problems created by TCW have only been amplified, not reduced, with the rise of a veritable "Filoniverse." Finally, I'd bring up a quote from Lucas six years ago in which he doesn't mention TCW or any work of the now Filoniverse as being part of his vision: "I've kind of lost control of Star Wars. So it's off on a different path than what I intended. But the first six are very much mine and my philosophy."

Here's my medical opinion: get rid of Filoni and do a fresh reboot to purge the franchise of the Filoniverse's taint, keeping only Andor and Rogue One, along with the six original movies, just like TCW and its pilot were kept in 2014. From there, the franchise could start on a clean slate, without having to rely on Filoni's mediocre lore and characters. His 18-year tenure has gone on for far too long.

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

PS: You may disagree with everything I've written, and please let me know. Debate is what matters most.

Look at how he tries to take credit for something he stole and how he struggles to change his narrative when he's brought back down to earth! We see him going through the usual speech "I'm the one who brought George's vision to life" then Katie catches up with him saying "dude, sorry, but you just stole it from the EU" and he has no other choice but to take responsibility to avoid denying his boss's daughter knowing he is in the wrong and that digging himself deeper into his lie would be a waste of time. Above all, this example has the advantage of showing Filoni crediting George for an idea that was stolen from the EU; who knows how many times Filoni has credited George for ideas that he did not get from him, but from himself or from an external theft? We must therefore assume that Filoni is prone to lying and doubt EVERYTHING he says, even when he claims to base his statements on Lucas.

What's fascinating about the TCW featurettes is how often Filoni steals ideas from the Expanded Universe while claiming it's original, coming from either himself, George, or his team—not from the EU he despises. For example, in the Kamino battle episode, he doesn't mention that he's recreating (and doing it worse) the Republic comic's Battle of Kamino, and even goes so far as to steal the emphasis on the Arc Troopers, the cadets' defense, and Shaak Ti's central role. He takes credit for a storyline where Anakin is suffering from Obi-Wan's fake death, which is also stolen from Republic. During the Mon Cala arc, he never once mentions his 2003-2005 Clone Wars thefts, taking credit for the integration of Kit Fisto and his outfit... In a Season 1 featurette, he also credits his team with Kit Fisto's character design for The Clone Wars, even though, like most of the show's early designs, it's a 3D rendering of Tartakovsky's designs (since TCW was originally intended to be a 3D spin-off of The CW, between chapters 21 and 22). The list goes on. Katie Lucas, in this clip, and in others as well, was honest about the fact that TCW is reinventing the Expanded Universe without integrating into it (as with the Ventress and Dathomir arc that she directed with Filoni's team); you either like it or you don't, but she's honest, humble, and trying to do something good. Filoni never mentioned Tartakovsky either, I think, regarding the Ilum arc with the lightsaber crystals; I know that Tartakovsky did not create Ilum, but he was the first, I believe, to put it on screen and in a series about the clone wars; strange that the other series about the clone wars does not mention its predecessor; in fact, I believe that CW is never mentioned once in the TCW featurettes.

The few times Filoni acknowledges that he is inspired by the EU, we see 1) that he doesn't know much about it and 2) that he is primarily trying to pass himself off (falsely) as a fan of the EU; I take as an example the moment when he justifies the episode of s1 where Naboo is attacked by a mad scientist with poison by saying that similar things happened in the EU (without mentioning Republic); when he introduces the clone commandos, he tries to show off by showing that he played and even finished the game (well done, boy!), which is fortunate, because the game is very good and not very long; The other case concerns the Mandalorian arc, but he was forced to limit the hatred that Expanded Universe fans would have thrown at him for Lucas's choice (by the way, for all those who say that Filoni is Lucas's heir, it's fascinating to see how much Filoni retconned the initial Mandalore arc from TCW S2, changing Mandalore from an organized and pacifist society seeking to abolish its overly belligerent regular army while obviously retaining its police force, to a tribal society where everyone is a soldier unless they're no longer allowed to be, but there are police forces, but they don't wear Mandalorian armor, except for the Protectors of Concord Dawn, except they don't wear it in TCW: in short, Filoni's Mandalorian lore makes no sense continuity wise).

Regarding Rebels, we obviously have a similar refrain; For example, I don't think he's ever once acknowledged borrowing the concept of the Inquisitors from the Expanded Universe, including, of course, the character of Jerek, the antagonist of the hit video game Dark Forces 2. Then there are the easter eggs, like the name "Fenn Rau" inspired by the EU's Mandalorian Protector "Fenn Shysa", originally created by Marvel in the 80s; this kind of thing is rather benign as an artistic choice.

I encourage you to note the other instances where Filoni has stolen elements from the EU without admitting it or lied about Lucas's involvment in certain ideas. If he's inspired by and reimagines something, fine, why not, as long as it's a separate continuity; the problem arises when he doesn't credit the original authors. This includes stealing the names of EU works, without even respecting their original content, like Tom Veitch's Tales of the Jedi, which he transformed into yet another Ahsoka-centric series (and a revisionist one regarding Dooku, wrongly portraying him as a true Separatist).

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

You know, Dave Filoni's animated series that was supposed to redeem the sequels... It worked out very well, I must say! Everyone's still talking about it today! So many people have seen it! Long live Filoni!

He saves Star Wars with every project, and has been doing so for 18 years! I don't know of a single mediocre Filoni series! Everything he does perfectly respects the continuity of both Expanded Universes and, of course, the films, while making them better! Long live the Filoniverse! Long live the sequel trilogy! Long live Ahsoka, wolves, and hats!

Thank goodness Disney got rid of the old Expanded Universe, which was so bad, disrespectful of Lucas's work, and inconsistent. Plus, now, Supreme Leader Filoni reigns over Lucasfilm! So much better than Tartakovsky, Tom Veitch, or Timothy Zahn. I hope we get other Filoni series that will mark Star Wars history like Resistance: I can't wait for Ahsoka S2, Mandalorian S4, Shadow lord S2 and three trilogies about the Tano's saga! He has done so little for this universe in 18 years, apart from the 7 seasons of TCW, the 4 seasons of Rebels, the 2 seasons of Resistance, the 3 seasons of The Bad Batch, the 3 seasons of Tales of, the 3 seasons of The Mandalorian, the season of TBOBF, the first seasons of Ahsoka and Maul: Shadow Lord and the movie The Mandalorian and Grogu, not to mention his work on TLJ which allowed him to forge a deep friendship with the genius Ryan Johnson. He also mentored Lesley Headland on the wonderful series The Acolyte. Then there's all the spin-off content from his works.

You're a bunch of ungrateful wretches to think Filoni had anything to do with the decline of the franchise!

Anyway, sorry for the rant...