u/Internal_History59

(this is primarily ment for fun and not as a jab to the people who like SM and Journeys)

Does it look good?

Based on research that I did by looking in Pinterest and similar a lot.

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I'm talking overall, like in training, mindset, strategies and tactics, creativity, battle style and so on.

Look at these two friends!

I made this for myself and a friend, and they told me that I should post it online and so I did...

Yeah I know it looks bad and all, especially because I'm still a beginner and I did this on Flipaclip without any tool besides my phone so yeah I know that it's far below the standard here... And I doubt it will be noticed by many, but still, I hope that it's not too terrible and I hope to improve so yeah...

Hello everyone, the first thing I wanted to say is that I'm both a fan of DBZ and B10, so this is not meant to be an attack towards the Ben 10 community or anything similar, just an examination of the two characters and an explanation on how Goku just wins.

So I'll use the current prime versions of both characters, and the fight will take place in a neutral battlefield that doesn't give special benefits to either combatants.

I'll tackle every alien Ben has, or at least the ones that actually matter and that are likely to get mentioned by people in the comments and I'll explain how Goku is able to counter them, so time to start.

First of all: No, Ben scanning Goku would not make him stronger or even equal. That's because what the omnitrix does is give Ben the prime unaltered specimen, Goku transformations, especially SSJ God and Blue that require God ki are due to special training, experiences and rituals. Ben wouldn't immediately have them, he wouldn't even know techniques like kaioken or Ultra instinct either or how to even use ki properly at all, training is needed for all of these things and these techniques specifically aren't unique to the Saiyans, so Goku doesn't have them just because he is a Saiyan but because of his actual training. That means that Ben's Saiyan transformation would stand no chance against Goku. Also I wanted to add a little side note about the Ultimatrix and how an Ultimate Saiyan would still lose to Goku, that's because we aren't given a specific idea of how the simulation actually works within the Ultimatrix, yeah it would be stronger than the base Saiyan transformation but by how much it is simply unquantifiable, especially for how inconsistent some of the ultimates are compared to each other, like Ultimate Echo Echo absolutely washes base Echo Echo but for others the upgrade in power is quite minimal like with Wildmutt, so it would be an extreme level of appeal to possibility to say that an Ultimate Saiyan would be beyond Goku, we don't even know if the simulation would be able to give him the specific situation to obtain Super Saiyan 1, so yeah the Ultimatrix Simulation due to not having much info about its specifics wouldn't be anywhere comparable to Goku's training because it is simply unquantifiable and also again Goku's training and experiences are specific to him. So the first point has been cleared.

The next one I want to talk about is another popular argument I've heard for Ben, that being "he can use Echo Echo to duplicate himself and then turn normal and have multiple clones of himself that can turn into aliens" that's because of the episode duped where he does that, the problem is first, this requires too much set up to be something he can pull mid-battle, but secondly, even worse is the fact is that in the actual episode he does that he straight up becomes worse, the clones split his personality and overall battle prowess, to the point that the 3 of them couldn't fight some nobody without almost killing eachother for how incompetent they were together, so Ben needed to return to normal to actually win that fight, this strategy has no point, it actually screws him over, especially if he for some reason decided to do that against someone infinitely stronger like Goku. Also another point I wanted to bring up is that it is also very likely that this was achieved because of a glitch of the Ultimatrix since it never happened before or after, so it's likely he wouldn't even be able to perfectly replicate this, so yeah this tactic has no place in any discussion just for how convoluted and bad it is.

Now I wanted to talk about the specific abilities and haxes of Ben's aliens that are commonly discussed and why they wouldn't be effective or even work at all against Goku in the first place.

So first of all there are two fundamental problems, those the fact that Goku speedblitzes and stats stomps all of Ben's aliens, making hypothetical advantages in abilities pointless if they can't perceive him or survive even one attack from him. And secondly, in Dragonball, if you're strong enough you can overcome these types of abilities, Vegito kept being alive and kept moving and fighting as a jawbreaker when Buuhan used his magic to turn him into one, Goku is able to counter Hit's time stop because he's just that strong and fast, and so much more, so Goku being far superior than them stats wise benefits him even more, so already with this in mind it's clear that Goku just straight up wins, but I thought to go into the specifics on why Ben's aliens are just straight up useless against him.

So let's start with aliens like Ghostfreak, Big Chill and similar, their whole deal is being able to turn intangible, invisible, possess things and other ghostly related things, Goku would have 0 issues against these aliens because Ki is conceptual, mental and spiritual in nature, and it is defined as something that goes beyond the physical boundaries of the physical body, meaning that these ghost abilities (of very weak characters in comparison) would be purely useless as they would still be affected by Goku's attack and also Goku could simply sense their presence by sensing their Ki if they try to hide when invisible or similar, and even without Ki sensing, Goku when fighting against Yakon which was back in early Buu saga and he was in base, he is able to sense his movements in total darkness by sensing the vibrations in the air, and even in the exhibition tournament before 5he actual tournament of power we have Gohan sensing an enemy while being blinded and poisoned just by sensing the movements and vibrations around and is able to react to attacks that barely touched his hairs, and Gohan at that point was much weaker, slower and less skilled than Goku, he was pretty much very rusty back then, and Goku can even react to things that haven't happened yet, since in his first fight with Beerus he is able to know that Beerus is gonna attack him even before Beerus moves at all, and Goku couldn't even sense his Ki at all back then, and now he can thanks to having God Ki, and he even has Ultra instinct which helps him even more. Also side note, Goku also has the mafuba that he can use just in case.

Next up I wanted to talk about all of the aliens that rely on mind manipulation and similar, so for example Pesky Dust, Whampire and even Toepick, so first of all, current Goku scales massively and I mean massively above Early Saga Vegeta and Vegeta back then is already capable to overcome Babidi mind control, and not only that but something like Toepick scary face wouldn't work even with the benefit of the doubt because Goku has Mui which would make him body act on its own even after seeing the scary face of Toepick, so not only these aliens have the problem that they severely lack in power and speed against Goku but that their abilities are essentially useless against him, there's nothing they can do to him.

The next type of aliens I wanted to discuss are the ones that are able to absorb energies such as Chromastone, NRG and Feedback. So the problem is first of all as said earlier, Goku's ki attacks aren't limited by physicality but besides that, these aliens would explode if they absorbed too much energy, since we see in Ben 10 that Ben died as Chromastone because of an overflow of energy, and Goku has way more energy than characters like Kid Buu which he could've destroyed other world in a single shot which is infinite in size, and even more so in Battle of Gods we have Goku having officially a level of power capable of destroying the entire macrocosm which is a Cosmological structure with multiple infinite and complex realms, alongside other world as said earlier which is also stated to transcend the dimensions of the mortal realm and to not have the concepts or space and time. And like characters in Dragonball are capable of shattering reality like nothing, just look at what Super Buu did to escape the hyperbolic time chamber, he screamed so much that he broke the literal space of the place, or when he was screaming so much as Buuhan when fighting Vegito that he was outright breaking reality apart, and Vegito still obliterated him (also this works as supporting evidence for the fact that Goku can overcome battlefield removal from Upchuck if he gets somehow eaten by him and gets send into that other dimension, and besides Goku still has instant transmission, and also this works as evidence that Echo Echo and Blitzwolfer sound attacks will not do much as the screams of Dragonball characters are far more powerful and still, MUI would make him act with no distractions even then anyway). And even in Super Broly where Gogeta and Broly casually shatter an entire realm/dimension like nothing mid-fight or Goku affecting the entire void of the tournament of power. So it's clear that Goku would overwhelm Chromastone and just make him explode, as for Feedback the same exact thing, and before anyone says that Feedback absorbing the big bang is comparable, no it's not, not even remotely close, because first of all he didn't even absorb it, he was just holding it temporarily, and with immense struggle may I add as you can see in the clip, and not only that but he was also amped by literal Celestialsapiens DNA, and also helped by the omnitrix cycling through every alien Ben has, while they were also amped by celestialsapiens DNA, and not to mention that the realities and cosmology that Goku affects with much less effort scale higher than that big bang in the first place. As for NRG, it's the same thing, especially because he should in fact be below Feedback as the omnitrix chose Feedback over him to hold the big bang and besides even being made of just energy/radiation doesn't work as Goku has non-physical interaction as established earlier. And also, no, NRG can't poison him with the radiations, nor Atomix or Gutrot, before anyone starts talking about the heart disease, the problem is that this was back in early Android Saga, Goku now can manipulate and heal his heart in super after it got crushed, back when Hit tried to assassinate him, he could also just focus his body to expel any virus or disease like Vegito does when Buuhan tried to control from the inside (which also works as evidence for the fact that possession from Ghostfreak and similar wouldn't work) and again, ultra instinct, and besides there's no proof the regular radiations that NRG and Atomix can cause can even be remotely close the heart disease, the only one who might (key word: might) replicate it is Gutrot, which again as explained earlier, it is simply pointless as I just said, and Goku can simply just generate a shockwave to send the gasses away, which is something he can, he did that against the Ginyu force, and also he can just use ranged attacks, besides the fact he stats stomps and speedblitzes.

(Also now I wanted to briefly talk about Goku's speed since I just finished talking about his Attack Potency. So the first thing to make clear is that Power and Speed are correlated in Dragonball as said by Vegeta in the Namek saga, meaning Goku would be roughly as fast as he is strong and considering he has the power to obliterate infinite complex structures that are above dimensions and space and time itself that alone makes his speed beyond any finite metric by multiple levels, and to support that we have Goku who can get through otherworld which is infinite in size, and the fact that Goku can overcome time control with his sheer power and speed and he is also above Jiren who is stated to have power to transcend time itself and so much more, it's clear that Goku has a level of speed far superior and even then for some reason if you want to downplay Goku to just have a finite level of speed, Goku back in the Saiyan-Namek when traveling to Namek he used a spaceship that was traveling 9 trillion times faster than light and he could react to asteroids and such without much problem and Goku back then had a power level of roughly just 10000, Goku at the end of the saga had a power level of 150000000 as a Super Saiyan 1 and just let alone all the training and transformation's multipliers he gets after, so Goku as of now even if you low ball him to only have finite speed, he still would be far into Massively faster than light+, way more than any of Ben's aliens, and also it's not uncommon for Goku to speedblitz those that are below than him in speed than him, just look at his fight with the Gyniu force, they couldn't even perceive his movement at all while he wasn't even trying, and their power level all had the same digit of numbers mind you, with the Ginyu force power levels to be around 40000~ while Goku was at 90000, so yeah Goku not only is stronger than Ben's heavy hitters like Way Big, Atomix or Feedback but he's also faster than aliens like Xlr8, Fasttrack and Jetray, Goku is on a whole other dimension of power for them.)

Also Clockwork time powers would obviously not work, because I just finished explaining why Goku is faster than time itself and can just out power his powers, and even then with just lowballing, he straight up still blitzes and one shots him.

And neither can Gravattack's gravity manipulation can do much as Goku has trained with intense gravity that is above the regular physical one, by training with artificial and even meta-physical ones, and again Goku blitzes and has instant-transmission and besides Goku counters it by having telekinesis himself as he was able to move and stop objects and characters with his mind, he even has the God bind technique which does that with God ki so gravity manipulation is not something that gives him any difficulty.

And also, no, The Worst can't survive any hit from Goku for many reasons, first of all it would be an immense assumption to say he can just because of statements within his own verse and tiring out characters infinitely weaker than Goku, meaning that realistically, any of Goku's physical attacks are enough, and also even if The Worst could tank physical attacks it has nothing against spiritual and conceptual hax, heck Goku even has the Hakai which can erase him, and even if The Worst could tank that, he still feels all the pain, with enough damage his brain is simply just going to shut down by the amount of pain that is going to severely affect blood pressure and oxygen, and even if we exclude this, Goku can simply bfr by using instant-transmission or flight and leaving him in the middle of space or somewhere else, completely defenseless, and The Worst has literally 0 ways to fight back against Goku, so he's literally useless.

Before going straight to Alien X, I wanted to first talk about one more thing, that being the Omnitrix and the fail-safe.

Because if the fight has them bloodlusted and not in character, Ben is even more dead, as the omnitrix ai best speed feat is reacting to the big bang which is not as fast as the things I've brought up for Goku, in base, let alone with Ultra instinct at max power charging head first to kill, and even if the omnitrix could react and activate a fail-safe, it's simply not going to work, as no transformation in the omnitrix can match Goku as I just explained, and if the omnitrix decides to instead go for an energy shockwave instead, first of again none of them match Goku power, and even then, the explosion would kill Ben, and like at best the Omnitrix can generate enough energy to explode the universe but it needs to charge a lot, and I went over how universe exploding power is nothing for Goku in base as of now, and again if the Omnitrix was able to release this amount of power immediately it just kills Ben so it doesn't help him at all, so Goku just overpowers the Omnitrix itself as well.

And now it's finally time to cover Alien X and why he also loses to Goku as I already implied before.

So first of all, Goku's sheer superiority of power just makes all of Alien X abilities and haxes just straight up useless against him, including existence erasure since Goku with his ki he can negate the existence erasure of the Hakai which is superior to the one of Alien X, the reason why I'll explain a bit better, so unless Alien X is actually stronger than Goku then he has no way to beat him, even with his abilities, as for their scaling, well I've already explained most of Goku's scaling already so I'll primarily go over Alien X here.

So Alien X survived an universe ending attack and also recreated the universe, which should be around Universal+ and this isn't that much when in comparison Goku was already beyond this level of power for a lot, since practically Dragonball Z, so nothing special, and at best Alien X has the power to cut through something that was impossible for the contumelia to get through and they're explicitly 5D, so 5D to 6D at best, that's still nothing as Goku scales to destruction capable of destroying the otherworld is already well over that as I've explained earlier well enough and again Goku is infinitely stronger as of now than he was back then, which is supported by statements for characters like Frieza where it is said that in his Golden form he's also infinitely stronger than he was last time. So Goku in base is already capable of defeating Alien X with literally no difficulty at all; and also Goku has fought full on reality manipulators before so Alien X isn't special in that regard either.

Now I wanted to get through why Alien X's higher scaling arguments don't hold up. Starting with the 26 dimensions one and the 17 dimensions one, the problem with these statements is that they never specify that these extra dimensions are superior while in Dragonball it is explicitly said that certain realms are down right superior to others as I went through earlier, and besides the mention of string theory in the verse proves the fact that they aren't superior even more as the dimensions of String Theory and Bosonic String Theory don't act as regular spatial dimensions like the ones used in scaling or anything like that. And also the same would go for the Infinite dimensions of Hilbert Space of the Many Worlds Interpretation which likely exists in the verse because of mentions of quantum mechanics as well, since these are just coordinates and wouldn't qualify for infinite spatial dimensions (also to debunk MWI even more. MWI only encompasses what's physically possible within quantum physics, so not everything possible within logic or metaphysics but arguably not even the full entirety of everything physically possible, and besides MWI can be argued to be in Dragonball as well so it's even less special) and now it's time to get over what people use for Type 4 Multiverse in Ben 10, so starting with the Aleph number seen in Paradox backstory and Brainstorm calculations that include set theory, those are just the symbols, it's never once stated or even straight up implied that they're true within the the verse existance ot I'm what context, by this very flawed logic we can also say that our world is a type 4 multiverse simply because these concepts appear in mathematics, so there's nothing proving that these concepts actually exist in the verse at all. And now for the last part I'm going to focus regarding Alien X's supposed narrative transcendence and why it's false. So this idea exists because in an episode of Ben 10 it is said that celestial sapiens are the reason why the art style and voice have changed, people argue that this somehow an author level feat but it literally has no reason to be one as the way characters and things look and sound is something that can be changed just by changing their physical components and nothing more, so it's not valid to be classified as a Reality above Fiction feat. Meanwhile Goku has actual and far superior R>F scaling, that being the fact in the end of Z he's downright stated to be the strongest within Dragonball, that includes without a shadow of a doubt Arale, especially because she was canon to Dragonball before Super, and Arale has insanely high scaling, as she viewed her entire verse as a manga page which she then rips and interacts with, and she would be doing that to a logically infinite degree since it would be her viewing herself as fiction viewing herself as fiction and so on and on, and Goku scales above her at the End of Z and even in Super he's also able to scale to her and also Hakai is able to erase characters from Arale that have relatively scaling to her, that's what I meant that the Hakai was a much better type of existance erasure than the one Alien X has, and also as a bonus, Arale literally time travels with her sheer speed and Goku, especially at the end of Z scales above that, so even more proof that Goku's power and speed is just superior in every way.

And that was it. Goku scales above everything Ben has in both Power and Speed and can counter everything that Ben can use to the point that Ben has literally 0 options to win against him and Dragonball scaling is simply just higher in every way and Goku just solos the entire Ben 10 verse.

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All dreams are a reality, dream eater quite literally eats dreams, bunch of regular random Pokémon can learn dream eater, including first evos like Gastly, Hoothoot or Ralts which are first stage Pokémon that are weak in comparison to the majority of the Pokémon out there, meaning that it upscales pretty much the entire dex.

And also a dream can pretty much have quite literally anything inside of it too.

All dreams are a reality, dream eater quite literally eats dreams, bunch of regular random Pokémon can learn dream eater, including first evos like Gastly, Hoothoot or Ralts which are first stage Pokémon that are weak in comparison to the majority of the Pokémon out there, meaning that it upscales pretty much the entire dex.

And also a dream can pretty much have quite literally anything inside of it too.

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Idk if I'm either going insane or what but like... Why is Ash's Unova outfit omnipresent? Like when it isn't his OG outfit it's always this design being used when people use an image or png of Ash, and like idk it feels extremely random, idk if there is anyone who also noticed that.

He has the best combination of Pokémon for the teams that have more than 6 members, as for what is the best combination for these teams, well you can decide that.

Also Ash and his Pokémon are at their consistent absolute best.

Round 1: it's the Ash and his teams straight up out of that moment in the series, so for example for his Kanto team his Pikachu is as strong as it was at the end of the Kanto series, and Ash is as skilled and experienced as he was there, and same goes for all others.

Round 2: It's Alola Ash in terms of skill and experience and his Pokémon are as strong as they were at this point in the story.

Round 3: round 1 but with Z-Moves (and arguably gimmicks in general)

Round 4: round 2 but with Z-Moves (and arguably gimmicks in general)

How well can they do?

He has the best combination of Pokémon for the teams that have more than 6 members, as for what is the best combination for these teams, well you can decide that.

Also Ash and his Pokémon are at their consistent absolute best.

Round 1: it's the Ash and his teams straight up out of that moment in the series, so for example for his Kanto team his Pikachu is as strong as it was at the end of the Kanto series, and Ash is as skilled and experienced as he was there, and same goes for all others.

Round 2: It's Alola Ash in terms of skill and experience and his Pokémon are as strong as they were at this point in the story.

Round 3: round 1 but with Z-Moves (and arguably gimmicks in general)

Round 4: round 2 but with Z-Moves (and arguably gimmicks in general)

How well can they do?

This has the potential to be one of if not the most interesting videos, like can you imagine, it would be really good at explaining a rather complex topic in a simple to understand way like the other Animation Vs Educations, alongside having endless possibilities considering that there are so many philosophies and like it could have some amazing writing considering the very deep topic, and also, I really like philosophy.

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