Something I wanted to share.

I had this dream where I was being chased by Lily Lovebraids. But it was on the roofs of tall building. Kind of like that level in Sonic Adventure, where Tails is racing Eggman.

We pass loads of robots, and I reach the end, where Lily is inexplicably in front of me, sitting down on a chair smiling. The Prototype is behind her, brushing her hair.

The Prototype asks me "Tell me. If Lily Lovebraid's hair can grow long. Can it be cut short?" and starts cutting her hair. He then explains that he "grooming" Lily Lovebraids to be his "new body" if his current body dies, and even shows a jester hat for her to wear, if this happens. And Lily's just smiling, like she doesn't know what's going on, or doesn't mind it.

Later on, I had a different, yet related, dream where I was part of a police force that does missions in airplanes. Lily Lovebraids had stolen the Triforce (from the Zelda series) and was in an airplane, and we had to go after her.

For the past few days I've been posted some strange theories about Zelda lore.

Most of them are pretty much "X became X" or "X is the same as X", which some of you don't like. So, now I'm gong to take a break and ask if there are any theories or headcanon about the lore you want to share?

I'll start.

Leviathans reproduce by dreaming, much like Beholders from D&D. The Wind Fish has the power to created realistic worlds by dreaming. On rare occasions, these dreams become so vivid, it produces a new real leviathan.

P.S. The Leviathan thing was going to be a whole post. But I realised there's not enough evidence to make it more then a headcanon. So, I just made it a post saying "This is my bizarre headcanon. You can ignore it if you want. But you can tell me yours" post.

So, this is something that's been debated to hell and back. when it comes to BotW's timeline placement, the three most popular theories are...

1. It takes place in the DT
2. It's a convergence
3. It can take place in any three timelines

Whilst I lean towards DT, I am open to it being all three.

But, I remember years ago suggesting it was the CT, and this ended up rubbing a few people the wrong way.

One person described BotW as "definitely being intended for the DT". There arguments being...

• It's in (old) Hyrule | (so no AT)
• The OoT Sages (and OoT events) are a confirmed historic fact | (So no CT)
• Ganon has been an eternally returning scourge upon Hyrule (even before becoming known as "Calamity Ganon") | (only really a thing in DT, Ganondorf (I) only really returned to Hyrule once in AT and CT and then he died as a mortal man, unlike in DT where he became a true demon when getting the full triforce, and has since been permanently returning as "Ganon" like a true demon)
• Ganon is also specifically confirmed to have his origins as the Ganondorf met in OoT (unlike FSA's "Ganon II" which is the "last known Ganon" in the CT)

Obviously the last two points involving Ganon are now moot, since TotK revealed it to be a different Ganon this whole time, and not OoT Ganon. So, it doesn't matter if FSA made a different Ganondorf.

I feel like the first two points stand. Particular the Sage one. The Zora have Zora tablets, telling the story of Princess Ruto becoming a Sage to help Link and Zelda fight Ganondorf.

I'm not saying "BotW can't be CT", I'm just asking who would you explain it, if you think it is possible?

EDIT: One thing I suggested was that we could use Hyrule Warriors to explain the people knowledge of Princess Ruto's heroics. But this was shot down as be "bending evidence", by useing a "non-canon game".

Four years ago, I made a (now somewhat) outdated theory about a hidden tribe of "dogmen". Theory: Hyrules lost/hidden race/tribe : r/truezelda

The main focus was on the Darknuts, or rather, the ones from MC and WW, and how they may be decided from the Mogma.

Turns out, I may have been partly right about their being a race of dogmen. We see that with the Ancient Hero.

Ancient Hero is not a Zonai

Just something to get out of the way. Many people call the Ancient Hero "Zonai Link", but he's not a Zonai. TotK made it clear that Rauru and Mineru were the last two members of their kind.

People have tried to handwave this by suggesting "Ancient Hero is a hybrid, so he doesn't count". Whilst being a hybrid would explain his hylian-like ears, it wouldn't explain the other differences.

Aside from the ears, The Ancient Hero also possess a long tail. Something Rauru, Mineru or the Hylians have. Also, both Rauru and Mineru possess human-like plantigrade feet, just like the Hylians. Yet the ancient heroes feet are digitigrade, and more canine-like. Again, suggesting he's a different species.

The Mogma and the Ancient Hero

So, what is the Ancient Hero?

I think he's from a yet unnamed race. One that evolved from the Mogma.

SS has many new races. Most of them are speculated to be the ancestors of present day races, these being: The Parella, Kikwi and Loftwings, the possible ancestors of Zora, Kokiri (and Deku trees) and BotW's Rito (more on that in another post I made). That just leaves out the Mogma.

In the depths, we see five statues representing different non-Hylian creatures: The Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Rito and a fifth creature that looks like a humanoid Mogma, and shares similarities to the Ancient Hero.

Where are these Mogma-decendents in other eras?

When discussing new races, an important question to ask is, why don't we see them in other games?

The most simple solution is that they were underground this whole time. I mean, the Mogma are a subterranean race.

Another possibility I heard is they may have become the Subrosian from OoS. Apart from living underground, they also live in areas surrounded may magma, similar to the Mogma.

But, what if we actually do see some members in other games? (If you read the out-dated post, you know where this is going)

The Darknuts in WW, MC and FS are inexplicably dog-like in design. Darknuts themselves don't appear to be an actual species, but rather a high rank of solider, that could theoretically be any species, and work for any side. But what if the ones from WW, MC and FS are these dog-men?

Following the timeline, we know there was some unseen invasion prior to MC, which ended in the invading forces being sealed away in a chest. Given how there seem to be no designated leader, and Darknuts appear as high ranking mini-bosses. It's possible these Darknuts may have been responsible for the invasion, or at least, played a major role.

It's possible these Darknuts were brought back by Vaati in FS, and then discovered by Ganondorf in WW. As for the other timelines, the TP Darknuts are clearly human in origin. The DT Darknuts are impossible to tell.

Or, I could just be completely wrong, and the Darknuts are just monsters.

We know the Koroks and Rito evolved from the Kokiri and Zora respectively. But what about the Fishmen?

Let's go over some theories.

Sailors

We know the Fishmen are indebted to the King of Hyrule. But we don't know what for. This theory suggests that they were shipwrecked sailors rescued by the King. Which would explain why one of them was Gillian's (a Hylian) ex-boyfriend.

River Zora

I heard this one in the past. I was very quick to dismiss it, on the ground that we don't see River Zora anywhere in the unified timeline. Making me believe they "didn't exist yet". (I was young and naïve)

Of course, EoW has proven that just because we don't see a race, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Still. There isn't realy much evidence for this, other then "fish people".

Oocca

This is something I decided to throw in here. A bit of a role reversal. If the Zora became Rito, what if the Oocca became Fishmen?

I mean, they both have small animal bodies, with human-like faces. Plus, both have connections to the Hyrulian royal family.

Maybe some disaster befell the City in the Sky after Ganon's invasion, and the King was forced to save them.

Deku Scrubs

A rare theory I heard. We never see the Deku scrubs. Maybe they were originally left to drown by the gods, due to their alliance with Ganon. But (like always) they changed their minds and begged for mercy, which the King showed by turning them into Fishmen.

I already discussed this four years ago, but I thought I'd redo it, since things would have changed since then.

This is one I been on the fence about for... well... ever since I heard of it. The theory is that the Kokiri evolved into monkeys, sometime before TP.

Some people have debunked this by saying Hyrule Historia says the symbols on the doors are the only trace of the Kokiri in the Forest. However, this might not be literal. It could just mean the symbols are the only overt trace, and the monkeys don't count, since they are no longer recognizable as Kokiri. It's possible the two are not related. Just because Link doesn't see the Kokiri doesn't mean they are gone. Similarly, just because we don't see monkeys in OOT, doesn't mean they aren't there.

Also, no. The Ordon villagers are NOT the Kokiri. OoT claiming the Kokiri would "surly die" if they leave the forest does NOT mean "They will age into adults". It most likely means they would get killed by the many dangers from the outside world. Besides, the Ordon are clearly human, whilst the Kokiri are forest spirits. So, it wouldn't just be ageing, it'd be turning into a completely different species. Which I why I don't buy that theory.

But, anyway. Do you think the Kokiri became the TP Monkeys? Or did they just leave, and the monkeys moved in?

I finished watching a full playthrough of Echo's of Wisdom the other day.

In the game, Null creates echo's of people and things that are pulled into the Still World by the Rifts.

But, we also see echo's of boss enemies. Where do these bosses come from? Are they things that got pulled into the still World, or did Null make them from scratch? We know Null's Ganon is an echo of the real Ganon. but what about Volvagia and the others?

I was looking at the Deku Tree's page on the Zelda wiki, and I found that his race is listed as "Korok" due to the fact that that's what BotW calls him.

I decided to go check myself, and yeah. According to Character Profiles in TotK, the Deku Tree is a Korok.

With this knowledge, I decided to revisit an old, rather controversial, theory.

The Kikwi evolved into the Kokiri

There's a common theory that the Kikwi from SS are the ancestors of the Kokiri from OoT.

The most common argument against this theory was the OoT already established that the Kokiri were created by the Deku Tree. Like, how can the Kokiri have evolved from another race, if the Deku Tree was their sole progenitor?

At first glance, it may seem like "The Kokiri evolved from the Kikwi" and "The Deku Tree created the Kokiri" may seem like mutually exclusive concepts. But, knowing what we know from BotW, I think I can explain what's going on.

The Deku Tree of OoT gave birth to the generation of Kokiri we see in the same game. However, the Deku Tree himself is a member of previous generation of forest folk, who also had their own progenitor. And that progenitor was a member of an even older generation who had theory own.... you get the idea.

A good way to see them is like a bee hive. The Deku Tree is like the "queen" (or king in his case), the Kokiri are like the worker/drones, with the Sprout being a young queen, raised in different conditions to replace the current queen.

If we look at the Kikwi, they have Bucha, who is much larger then the other Kikwi. He also suspiciously has a similar moustache to OoT's Deku Tree.

Of course, if you believe the WW Deku Tree is the Deku Tree Sprout from OoT, this would make him technically a Kokiri (coming from the same generation as them), which would explain why he looks more humanoid.

Obviously, non of this contradicts the Deku Tree being a "guardian spirit". We know gods can reincarnate as humans (Hylia as SS Zelda), and mortals can become demons (Ganon, Vaati). So, it's not out of the question for the member of a mortal race to become a guardian spirit.

Right now I've been watching a walkthrough of "Echos of Wisdom". IT's long, so I'm watching it across the span of several days.

EoW is very important to the Zelda lore. It explains why we don't see Gorons, Gerudo or Sea Zora in aLttP or aLBW. They were their the whole time, just off-map.

This may also explain why we don't see Gerudo or Zora in Minish Cap. Again, they were likely just off-map.

For this post, I want to talk about the Zora in particular.

For the longest time, it was feared that the peaceful friendly Zora from OoT and TP were destined to turn into evil, ugly monsters, for whatever reason. Sure, OoA shows us friendly Zora, but they're in another country.

Of course, aLBW suggests that the River Zora are NOT hereditably evil, just some are aggressive, and Oren has tried to stop them attacking people, to no prevail.

EoW has no aggressive Zora at all. It has both Sea and River Zora, both are friendly.

When the split happened

So, we know River Zora aren't hereditably evil. We also know the reason River Zora and Sea Zora are named after their habitats. But when did the evolve?

OoT has no kappa-like Zora. They make no kind of appearance whatsoever.

But here's the thing though.... neither do any "Sea Zora"....

Sure, the Zora we see in OoT have the friendly shark fin appearance of the Sea Zora. But they explicitly live in Zora's Domain, which is located in a river. This makes them "River Zora" in all but looks.

This implies that the Kappa-like River Zora are an off-shoot of the river dwelling shark fin Zora we see in OoT.

As for why OoTs Zora evolved? I haven't found an official source, but the Zelda Encyclopaedia suggests it was due to Zora-Hylian relationships souring after the decline of Hyrule.

What about the Sea Zora?

So, OoA introduces the idea of River Zora and Sea Zora. EoW would bring this back.

As EoW shows us, there are areas of Hyrule that never get explored in every game. Notably, while we see lakes and rivers in OoT and TP, we don't see any beaches or a sea.

If I had to guess, the Sea Clan that appear in EoW could just as well have been around during OoT, just off-map. They could just as easily be colonists, who moved to Hyrule's coastline sometime after OoT.

All-in-all, they're likely not decided from OoT's Zora population.

What about BotW's era?

I understand there's still some controversy surrounding BotW's placement. Hopefully, it doesn't matter. Well.... It might matter if you believe BotW takes place in the AT. but if you believe the CT or DT, it doesn't matter. Although it works better with the DT.

But yeah. We never see any Kappa Zora in the game. Given how expansive and detailed the game is, I feel like if Nintendo wanted us to think the Kappa Zora were still around, they would have showed them.

So... what happened?

Most likely theory... the River Zora and Sea Zora probebly just crossbred after making peace with each other. It may sound like I'm being too optimistic, but it lines up with my theory. I suggested the River Zora are descended from Oot's Zora, yet the Zora Tablets mention Princess Ruto, implying BotW Zora are also descended from OoT Zora.

Right now I've been watching a walkthrough of "Echos of Wisdom". IT's long, so I'm watching it across the span of several days.

EoW is very important to the Zelda lore. It explains why we don't see Gorons, Gerudo or Sea Zora in aLttP or aLBW. They were their the whole time, just off-map.

This may also explain why we don't see Gerudo or Zora in Minish Cap. Again, they were likely just off-map.

For this post, I want to talk about the Zora in particular.

For the longest time, it was feared that the peaceful friendly Zora from OoT and TP were destined to turn into evil, ugly monsters, for whatever reason. Sure, OoA shows us friendly Zora, but they're in another country.

Of course, aLBW suggests that the River Zora are NOT hereditably evil, just some are aggressive, and Oren has tried to stop them attacking people, to no prevail.

EoW has no aggressive Zora at all. It has both Sea and River Zora, both are friendly.

When the split happened

So, we know River Zora aren't hereditably evil. We also know the reason River Zora and Sea Zora are named after their habitats. But when did the evolve?

OoT has no kappa-like Zora. They make no kind of appearance whatsoever.

But here's the thing though.... neither do any "Sea Zora"....

Sure, the Zora we see in OoT have the friendly shark fin appearance of the Sea Zora. But they explicitly live in Zora's Domain, which is located in a river. This makes them "River Zora" in all but looks.

This implies that the Kappa-like River Zora are an off-shoot of the river dwelling shark fin Zora we see in OoT.

As for why OoTs Zora evolved? I haven't found an official source, but the Zelda Encyclopaedia suggests it was due to Zora-Hylian relationships souring after the decline of Hyrule.

What about the Sea Zora?

So, OoA introduces the idea of River Zora and Sea Zora. EoW would bring this back.

As EoW shows us, there are areas of Hyrule that never get explored in every game. Notably, while we see lakes and rivers in OoT and TP, we don't see any beaches or a sea.

If I had to guess, the Sea Clan that appear in EoW could just as well have been around during OoT, just off-map. They could just as easily be colonists, who moved to Hyrule's coastline sometime after OoT.

All-in-all, they're likely not decided from OoT's Zora population.

What about BotW's era?

I understand there's still some controversy surrounding BotW's placement. Hopefully, it doesn't matter. Well.... It might matter if you believe BotW takes place in the AT. but if you believe the CT or DT, it doesn't matter. Although it works better with the DT.

But yeah. We never see any Kappa Zora in the game. Given how expansive and detailed the game is, I feel like if Nintendo wanted us to think the Kappa Zora were still around, they would have showed them.

So... what happened?

Most likely theory... the River Zora and Sea Zora probebly just crossbred after making peace with each other. It may sound like I'm being too optimistic, but it lines up with my theory. I suggested the River Zora are descended from Oot's Zora, yet the Zora Tablets mention Princess Ruto, implying BotW Zora are also descended from OoT Zora.

Some of you may be reading this and thinking "Didn't this person already make this post last week?". To which I say, I made a related post, but that was mostly for sharing two theories, so you can soundboard them.

[WW] Wind Waker's two cut dungeons. Two possible theories. : r/truezelda

In that post, I talked about two possible theories about WW's cut dungeons.

1. third Goddess Pearl and Sage
2. Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle

Using your replies, plus some information I found whilst researching this idea, I have come up with a new theory. One that combines both theories discussed in the previous post.

Warning: This is long, so I've split it into two, plus I'll add a TLDR section on both parts.

The third pearl dungeon

This is by far the most common theory for the first cut dungeon. We have three Goddess Pearls. Din's Pearl, Fareore's Pearl and Nayru's Pearl. Both Din's Pearl, Fareore's Pearl are collected by traversing through a dungeon. So, it makes sense Nayru's Pearl would do the same.

First, let's clear up a misconception about Jabun and Greatfish Isle. No. Greatfish Isle being destroyed, and Link having to find Jabun in Outset Island is NOT a result of the deadline. The idea of Link having to spy on the pirates, and Tetra finding out he is alive are all way to scripted and integral to be a mere by-product of Christmas rushing. Greatfish Isle would have been destroyed no matter what.

One thing I do think was cut was that, when we meet Jabun, he would have sent us to enter the third dungeon to help undo the curse of the endless night. The idea of the Pearl undoing the curse does sound like a plot-hole. Suggesting we were meant to do something to lift the curse.

What would be in this dungeon?

Now, there are still three more questions.

1. What would the mini boss be?
2. What would the boss be?
3. What would the item be?

The first two questions are easy to answer, useing logic.

The boss would be Phantom Ganon. Easy. WW is the only game where PG appears as a mini-boss, rather then a boss. My guess, he would appear as the boss in this dungeon, and appear two more times as a mini-boss.

As for the mini boss. Whilst it is easy to assume it would be the Big Octo we see acrosss the Great Sea. I'm going to say no. The Big Octo doesn't look like it would be suitable for a dungeon. Following the pattern of mini-bosses returning as regular enemies, I'm going to say, it would have been a Wizzrobe. Specifically, a yellow hooded one, that summons lesser monsters to fight.

As for the item....?

It was most likely a pair of "water boots". Boots that would allow Link to walk underwater, without making him heavy.

There is actually solid evidence for this. Firstly, there is coding for an item called "water boots" in game. If this isn't a scrapped item, what else could it be? There are test maps for clear water, and what look like ramps for walking on. And, most jarringly, there is animation for Link swimming. Why would this animation exist, if we where never going to see it?

Possible flaws

There are some possible flaws with this theory, which I'll address. Of course, if there's anything I missed, you can tell me in the comments.

>Why make two pairs of boots for making you heavy and walking underwater?

MM gave us Goron Link, who was heavy, and Zora Link, who could walk underwater.

>Why make an item that can only be used in one dungeon? Also, would you use the water Boots to fight Phantom Ganon?

To be fair, the Hover Boots from OoT are similar. There's only realy used in the Shadow Temple, and are mostly useless in the boss fight. It's possible there could have been more places fro the water boots, but these were far an in-between, so could be easily cut.

>Isn't Tower of the Gods already a water dungeon?

Is it realy? Sure, the first floor is water themed, but most of it is centred around moving platforms and technology.

>Wouldn't that mean you have four dungeons before you get the Master Sword?

I mean, Nintendo does like to experiment. They give us a Forsaken Fortress preview in the first half of the game, something they've never done before. Maybe they thought that, since there were going to be less sages, they would add some extra dungeons for different reasons.

Ultimately, all these "flaws" could actually be factors for getting rid of this particular dungeon. Other then it being the easiest to cut, by just having Jabun give you the Pearl. The situational item, the presence of a semi-water dungeon, and there already being a third dungeon before the Master Sword, could all add up to Nintendo saying "Let's get rid of this one".

TLDR

• The first cut dungeon was going to be inside Jabun and breaking the eternal night curse, to get Nayru's Pearl.
• The dungeon would have clear water, and we would have used an item called the "water boots" to walk on the bottom on the water.
• We would have likely have gotten this item, after defeating a yellow hooded Wizzrobe, that summons lesser monsters.
• The boss for this dungeon would have been Phantom Ganon, who would return two more times as a mini-boss.
• This particular dungeon may have been chosen to be cut for several reasons. Cutting it wouldn't break the story to much, since it would all happen inside Jabun's cave. Nintendo decided Tower Of the Gods filled the "water dungeon" and "third dungeon, before Master Sword" niche. The Water Boots were too situational to be used much outside this dungeon, and it would be easy to modify places were we would have needed it. We were going to see Phantom Ganon again anyway, so cutting his dungeon wouldn't be a big loss.

Questions for Part 2.

OF course, some of you are probebly asking questions in regards to part two.

1. Would it have been a third Sage Temple?
2. Where would it be located?
3. What would the item and boss be?
4. I thought you said you theory was going to incorporate the "Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle" theory. Where do they fit?

All these will be answered in the next post.

Edit: Part 2 is here.

[WW] Wind Waker's cut dungeons mega theory: Part 2: The Third Sage : r/truezelda

So, I recently made a post discussion Wind Wakers two cut dungeons.

[WW] Wind Waker's two cut dungeons. Two possible theories. : r/truezelda

I talked about 2 possibilities.

1. Third Pearl and Third Sage
2. Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle

I decided number 2 made the most sense. Although, I'll leave both possibilities open, for the sake of making this post more interesting.

A lot of people talk about Wind Waker's cut dungeons. but almost no one talks about what the bosses were going to be.

Some ideas

For my "Third Pearl dungeon" theory, I suggested that Phantom Ganon may have been the boss.

I mean, it's not unheard of for bosses to return as mini bosses. Also, since the third pearl dungeon would have to take place before Link get's the Master Sword, a fight with Phantom Ganon would twice as long as when we fight him in Forsaken Fortress.

Unfortunately, finding ideas for a Third Sage Temple boss, or bosses for Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle proves more difficult.

I looked at the cutting room floor wiki for clues: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - The Cutting Room Floor

The the most part, I found nothing that screams "Cut boss!"

I did find one interesting model on this page for unused models: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker/Unused Models - The Cutting Room Floor

It's a model of a frozen Darknut called "Itnak" or "Frozen Knuckle". A boss for Ice Ring Isle, maybe?

Now, one could argue the model is too.... boring to be a boss. But, to be fair, they could have used the model as a placeholder for programming the boss mechanics. after which, they could doll up the model to be more unique.

Of course, this is all just guessing. And, even if Itnak was one boss. Who would the other one be?

given the lack of models, it's very likely the models simply weren't created yet, and, ultimately never did get created, due to the deadline.

As for if any of these bosses got retooled for future games? It's possible. As for who they become? We'll likely never know.