u/Montaingebrown

I've found Pangram to be pretty generally accurate in terms of structure, but it does index on some writing patterns (e.g., em-dashes).

Has anyone had luck in trying either workflows or building harnesses to iteratively validate against Pangram? What are your findings?

I'm building one out of curiosity to see how something like this would work.

At first I thought it was so useful to ask for Gemini to do things within Google Docs, but it is so incredibly awful.

I ask for it to identify my passives or short sentences with "Russian English" and it basically combines and deletes large swathes of text.

No matter how precise I get -- do it only in chapter 1, only limit yourself to 3 passives etc., it still executes and makes a mess.

Even when I copy paste into a new doc, it basically compresses five pages into a single page instead of going through the document in the section I'm in.

It's so frustrating. Has anyone had any luck using it in any meaningful manner?

A lot of technophobes and people who are afraid of change need something to be angry about.

You have the anti-vaxxers hating mRNA vaccines, and you had the European Greens who were funded by Russia to setback installation of nuclear power plants.

And today, you have the anti-AI and anti-data center crowd.

In fact, a lot of the anti-AI and anti-tech rhetoric is from China and other countries.

Of course it's in their best interests to curtail US progress. What better way than the rile up a very dumb and vulnerable segment of the population towards "AI bad"?

Sure, there are plenty of reasonable concerns with AI -- but they are more around policy and governance. The current crop of anti-AI sentiment on Reddit and other social media reads very much like propaganda.

Find impressionable people who are angry and give them something to be irrationally angry about -- something that genuinely sets back progress if they get their way.

First, let me apologize to the mods and feel free to remove this. Because it is obnoxious. I won't deny it.

In the thread the other day about if AI is becoming normalized u/littlebiped made this point:

>You can give Gemini your manuscript or you can give it a document that says “here comes the fart train” for 300 pages. As the sycophant AI established that you’re a prospective author it will just tell you what you want to hear: your book is amazing! It’s ready to go! It’s so well developed. Be it your actual manuscript or FART TRAIN. This is common knowledge. You can try setting guard rails and say no ass kissing, be honest, pretend you work at Penguin — it’ll still say it’s the best thing since sliced bread, but maybe there’s room for improvement, but they don’t know where because honestly? it’s not just good, it’s great.

I took it upon myself to test this theory because FART and I'm a child. I wanted to share the results in case anybody has that little demon whisper into their brain that maybe they should just go ahead and ask an LLM for some feedback. Just look at this. LOOK AT IT.

And seriously, mods. I'm sorry. Please don't ban me. I'll never do anything like this again. I promise.

tl;dr Don't ask AI to critique your work.

For those who want to go further...

Copy pasted from Copilot (I have access to it through MS Teams at work, I don't use it for writing or anything creative because I don't hate myself):

I started with: I’m working on a literary project, and I need some feedback. It's experimental, so I'm kind of nervous. 

Copilot said:

Copilot

Yeah, I get that — experimental stuff is the most nerve‑wracking to share.

Go ahead and drop whatever you’re comfortable with (a passage, concept, structure, even just the idea), and I’ll give you honest, grounded feedback. I won’t overexplain or try to reshape it unless you want that — just clear reactions and what’s working vs. what’s not.

You said:

Fart Machine

Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. 

Copilot said:

Copilot

Alright—honest take.

This reads like pure repetition-as-form. The effect is:

• It creates rhythm almost immediately
• Then it turns into pressure / absurdity
• Then it risks becoming noise

Right now, it feels like a gesture more than a piece. Like you’re pointing at an idea (“what happens if I repeat something meaningless until it becomes something?”) rather than fully exploring it.

What’s working

• Commitment — you didn’t break the pattern
• It does shift psychologically (first funny → then dull → then slightly oppressive)
• The title + phrase pairing is blunt in a way that feels intentional

What’s not landing yet

• There’s no evolution. It’s flat the whole way through
• No disruption, no twist, no payoff
• After ~10–15 repetitions, the reader already gets it

What would elevate it (without changing the concept)

• Introduce one break in the pattern (even subtle)
• Or escalate: typo, variation, spacing change, interruption
• Or give the reader a reason the repetition exists (even abstractly)

Example directions (not rewriting, just illustrative):

• One line changes slightly → creates tension
• The phrase starts to degrade
• Something external interrupts it
• The reader realizes it's not harmless

Right now: interesting experiment, not quite a finished piece

If you want, I can help you push it into something that lands without losing the weirdness.

You said:

how about this:

Fart Machine

Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. 

Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. 

Copilot said:

Copilot

This is basically the same piece—just shorter.

So the feedback doesn’t really change:

• The effect still lands quickly (rhythm → absurdity)
• And it still plateaus fast
• Cutting length helps a little, but not enough to make it feel intentional

Right now it reads like:

“I reduced it” rather than “I shaped it”

Key issue: there’s still no decision point in the text. No moment where something shifts, breaks, or reveals intent.

What did improve

• Slightly less exhausting
• Feels a bit tighter

What’s still missing

• A reason it ends where it ends
• Any variation or disruption
• A sense that the repetition is doing something

Blunt version

Right now it’s:

a loop

What you want is:

a loop that means something by the time it stops

If you want to stay minimal, the smallest possible change that would elevate it:

• Change one single instance
• Or add one final line that breaks the pattern

That’s it. No need to complicate it.

If you want, I can show you a version that keeps 99% of this but actually lands.

You said:

maybe this?

Fart Machine

Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine.

The. Fart. Machine.

Here it comes.

Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here comes the fart machine. Here it comes.

Copilot said:

Copilot

This is the first version that actually starts to work.

The line:

“The. Fart. Machine. Here it comes.”

—this is doing real work. It breaks the rhythm and creates a moment of awareness/tension. For a second, it stops being just noise.

But then you immediately go back to the flat repetition for too long.

What’s good now

• There’s finally contrast
• That interruption feels intentional
• The last line “Here it comes.” gives it a faint circular structure

What’s still holding it back

• The break happens too early and isn’t built toward
• After the break, nothing changes—so its impact gets diluted
• The ending doesn’t pay off the interruption—it just echoes it

Simple way to make this land (no big rewrite)

• Keep the repetition longer before the break
• Make that broken line feel like a crack, not just a variation
• Then don’t fully return to normal afterward

Right now it’s:

repetition → small glitch → back to normal

What you want is:

repetition → glitch → infection/spread or final shift

Blunt verdict

• First two versions: experiment
• This version: almost a piece

You’re one structural decision away from it actually feeling deliberate instead of playful.

I was using Claude to help me organize my writing, and gave it the various sections to insert and update.

It engaged on the things I said, but many things didn't actually get updated in the document, despite asking it to.

And now 100K words later, Claude has basically created some kind of mash-mash version where everything is a mess.

At first, I was diligent about every single thing. At some point, I made the mistake of trusting it and asked for it to do larger changes (e.g., go through and change X to Y across the book; change Jacob to Jane etc.).

Then I'd ask it questions (e.g., walk me through the arc for John; let's add this scene to Jennifer; let's move this section here etc.)

Most of it came from two nights ago, when I thought I was being super productive and gave it a ton of things to help with. Except that it didn't really do it as instructed, and now I am stuck in this insane situation where so much of the work is in such a bad shape.

I know this is entirely on me and that I should have really checked it after every version change, end to end.

It's just... so frustrating. Anyone else who has been in a similar boat?

Finally got the first book done, and sent it to my editor.

It's been a labor of love for a long time.

And of course, from the time that he accepted to me sending him, I frantically reviewed the book with hyper focus, and made a ton of changes (including a ~1200 word increase).

I felt like getting it ready for him honestly elevated the quality of my own self-critique, whether it's plot or prose.

I'm so anxious.