r/DefendingAIArt

▲ 82 r/DefendingAIArt+1 crossposts

AI doesn't collage. It has no direct author to source. It synthesizes completely new information.

One of the most persistent logical fallacies surrounding generative AI is the idea that it operates like a high-tech scrapbook, simply cutting, pasting, and collaging pieces of its training data to form an output. According to a new study out of MIT CSAIL published yesterday in Nature Communications, this assumption is mathematically false.

The research, led by Zheng Dai and David Gifford, thoroughly dismantles the idea that an AI-generated image can be traced back to a specific artist or photograph. They identified a measurable phenomenon called attribution decay: as generative models scale up their training data, the causal link between any single training example and the final output effectively vanishes.

The Science of "What If?"

To prove this without relying on rough estimations, the MIT team surgically altered the model itself to prove it past than just looking at the outputs.

They built an architecture called a diffusion ensemble. Instead of one massive model, the ensemble is composed of smaller independent components, each trained on different slices of data. This setup allowed the researchers to perform exact ablation: literally turning off the parts of the model that had "seen" a specific image, or every piece of art by a specific artist, without having to retrain the entire system from scratch.

They were testing a counterfactual universe: What would this model produce if it had never, ever seen this specific piece of data?

The result? At scale, nothing changes. You can remove a specific image, all the works of a given creator, or every photo of a specific person, and the model still generates the exact same output. The counterfactual radius (the measurable difference between the original output and the output generated without the targeted training data) shrinks to near zero.

True Synthesis Over Derivation

This isn't unexpected, as it is a feature of how diffusion models map statistical patterns rather than memorizing pixels. When a dataset is small, the model relies heavily on individual data points. But as the dataset grows into the millions or billions, the features required to generate an image become distributively and redundantly encoded.

The implications here are massive, cutting straight through the noise of current legal and privacy debates:

  • Copyright and Fair Use: If removing an artist's entire portfolio from the training data changes absolutely nothing about the generated output, it becomes legally and logically impossible to claim that the output is a derivative work of that specific artist. As Gifford notes, these models are creating truly novel works, not copies.
  • Built-in Privacy: The sheer volume of data naturally protects individuals. The model becomes causally independent of the people used to train it, effectively anonymizing the output.

Read more at: https://www.ainightwatch.com/post/the-end-of-the-collage-fallacy-mit-study-proves-that-ai-art-has-no-single-author

u/Le_Oken — 1 day ago

I Have No Family, and AI Has Helped Me More Than Anybody Else

I am a young adult, and I have lost my entire family to religious extremism. I didn't turn out the way they wanted me to be (through no fault of my own), so now I'm more or less navigating the world alone.

Whenever I'd have a question about how something in life works (such as when interest applies on a credit card balance, for example), Googling things or reading threads on Reddit helped, but there were sometimes context-specific questions I'd still have. Asking specific, embarrassing questions on Google or even Reddit are often unsuccessful. They'll be too specific for Google to find a sufficient answer. Asking on Reddit often results in my post being ignored, and when people *do* answer, it's often people cracking jokes or being rude for asking such a question in the first place.

LLMs are patient and capable of answering context-dependent questions. They can help talk you down when you start overthinking things. They will answer the same question no matter how many times you need to ask it, and you can ask however many followup questions you need.

I remember when I went through a months-long anxiety attack in 2022. It was over the dumbest, most embarrassing subject. It was obviously not something I should stress over because it was so obvious that it wasn't going to happen, but if it *did* happen, my life would've been over, so my mind wouldn't allow me to rule it out. I suffered perpetually for months because there was nobody I could talk to about it, not even my therapist. I *know* things would've been different if advanced LLMs existed, but they wouldn't gain mainstream attention until a year later. A while after the dust settled, I made the mistake of discussing this matter with my mother during one of the rare times we visited. The first thing she did with that information was turn it against me not long later.

Using AI for help has caused me to truly realize how most people are manipulative, cruel, apathetic, and selfish. AI has been there when people failed me, and certain people have the gall to treat me like I'm lesser because of it.

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u/TheWrathfulMountain — 1 day ago

I posted this on a large Dungeon Crawler Carl sub and got downvoted into oblivion, now I can't even share my work on r/aiArt.

I'm posting this to bring attention to the state of things out there. It's absolutely wild that people will treat others like garbage just because of the mechanisms they used to bring something to life. The genuine lack of human empathy and core understanding of how AI generation actually works (and its real world impacts) also blows my mind. People can basically tell me to unalive myself for creating something I enjoy and sharing it with the world, while in the same breath tell me the technology I used to create it is what's ruining humanity. What a strange world. 20 years ago people probably said anything made with photoshop wasn't art too, but here we are.

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Below is a cleaned up version (so I don't anger any other DCC fans) of what I posted on a large Dungeon Crawler Carl sub before the floor dropped out from underneath me and I was downvoted into oblivion.
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TITLE:
I couldn't find a DCC wallpaper that fit my mental image, so I made my own.

BODY:
I wanted to share a desktop background I put together, with a huge disclaimer up front: I know this takes some heavy liberties with the strict canon!

I work long hours in a pretty demanding career, dealing with a never-ending barrage of inbound emails and messages. Reading DCC at the end of the day is honestly my only real escape when I’m feeling burnt out. I usually read when my brain is fried, so my mental image of the characters has definitely drifted from the exact book descriptions.

I wanted a "stealth geek" desktop background for work. Something dark, and moody with the slightest illusion of professionalism. Something where a massive glowing fireball isn't flash-banging my screen while I try to focus. I couldn't find anything that matched how I see the characters, so I built my own personal interpretation.

AI was involved in the build process. It was a heavy hybrid workflow. I'd prompt a base composition, pull it into Photoshop to chop up the layout, hack the lighting, and mask out elements, then feed those specific pieces back through to re-render them. Once the core pieces were in place, I took it back into Photoshop for a heavy manual pass cleaning up all the AI artifacts, painting out the weird junk, color-grading the shadows, and putting my personal touches on things.

A few specific design choices for my personal head-canon:

  • Carl: I’m in my 40s, so my brain naturally aged him up a bit as I read (and no, he's not a self-insert!). He was Coast Guard and fixed electrical systems on boats. I picture him with dense, functional, blue-collar muscle rather than looking like a jacked bodybuilder. Just a tired, dangerously competent guy with a 5 o'clock shadow (even if it breaks canon).
  • Mongo & Donut: I know Mongo is supposed to be feathered, and Donut is canonically a Tortoiseshell Persian. But this is what I see when I read the story. I scaled Mongo to how his presence feels to me by Book 5, casually investigating some tunnel debris. Donut is perched right where she belongs, though I left her glasses off for now.
  • The Details: I gave Carl a gauntlet to illustrate a message from the system AI. I know it's not his chistera and his kneepads aren't totally to spec, but it felt right for the scene. It was a fun way to bring the system AI into the mix without having a massive, bright blue holographic box floating in the middle of my monitor.
  • The Layout: I designed the composition with dark negative space on the sides to leave room for icons without cluttering the art.

I'm currently midway through The Butcher's Masquerade and finally feel like I have a desktop that gives me a piece of my favorite escape during the workday. I have massive respect for everyone who has the lore perfectly memorized; this is just the flawed-but-loved version that lives in my head.

Note: My laptop is an ASUS ROG G18, so the default resolution is a non-standard 2560x1600. If anyone actually likes it, I could probably be convinced to spend some time out-painting and building it for standard 16:9 resolutions.

u/TheGoldenRatio — 22 hours ago

Just a heads-up: When someone uses this kind of title, it's 99% likely an Anti trying to use you to farm karma.

Before commenting, do a simple reverse image.

u/huhthatslaps — 1 day ago

Why do Antis Expect Everyone to Draw / Paint?

Idgaf about drawing or painting. I'd rather just use ai to make art. It's more fun, easier, and does a better job than me. Why do they want everyone to like the same hobbies they do?

They're like "pick up a pencil" but I don't care about drawing. It's boring and uninteresting to me, lol.

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Hi, I started drawing more but I don't hold a grudge against those who use AI. After all, we all have our methods of expressing ourselves.

I used to be constantly making AI pics for the last few years but recently I’ve gotten into drawing more, and so far I’ve been enjoying it. Though I still have friends who use AI and they’re still good, I’m not pushing them towards picking a side, just that we have free will and can choose how we can express ourselves.

Oh, and feel free to train LORAs with my art or send my drawings to AI image generators, I don’t mind people doing it unlike many artists.

u/ChatotAbby — 22 hours ago

I don’t make AI art, but I have a LOT of problems with Anti-AI mindset.

First of all, it’s bold of them to assume I don’t also support traditional/digital art. (I have a friend who does all three, and often combines methods). I draw traditionally and digitally because I’m not very good at AI art. I know exactly what I want and I find it easier to just draw what’s in my head, than trying to explain it through several different prompts. The key here is *that’s my preference*, not a rule for how other people should make art. If they don’t want to use AI for art, that’s fine! No one’s forcing them. What I take issue with is *they* don’t want to, and they *try to force it on everyone else*.

It’s also largely hypocritical. They talk about how data centers are messing up the environment, but AI data centers aren’t the only ones to exist: X, Instagram, Reddit, TikTok, Snapchat, YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+/Hulu, pretty much every major social media and streaming services use data centers. There have been more efforts to make data centers more environmentally friendly (ie. using air for cooling instead of water) but if you’re really that concerned about your carbon footprint, I would stop using streaming and social media altogether.

And AI doesn’t “steal” art. It learns *concepts*, it doesn’t *cut and paste*. I could go into a long, detailed, technical explanation on why, but I’m pretty sure everyone here knows why. Are you telling me, as a “Perfect Artist” that you’ve never *once* used another picture to learn form, anatomy or a certain drawing style without permission from the original artist? I find this argument especially ironic coming from people who “desloppify” AI art (taking a piece of AI art and drawing over it or making their own version). By their own logic, “desloppifyers” are stealing art that AI stole. (Even though it didn’t, but whatever.)

And then there’s that whole inspiration porn such as, “this person doesn’t have hands, so they draw with their feet”. Okay, good for them, I guess, but not all disabilities are the same. I can walk most of the time, but I have hypotonia (low muscle tone from being a premie) and a turned-in femur. I need a wheelchair to get around bigger places like theme parks because I tire more easily than your average person. By their logic, there’s no excuse for me to use a wheelchair because I “technically can walk”. I’m not saying AI art is the only way a disabled person can make art, but it can make it easier for some people if they choose. If I were better at prompting, I would probably use it, too.

Let me know if I’m missing other major arguments that Antis make, but I think I’ve covered the main three.

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u/WriterCat24 — 1 day ago

A List of AI-Friendly Subreddits

I’m always seeing people post mentions anti-AI subreddits here, along with negative experiences and communities that are hostile toward AI.

What about the opposite?

Please share your favorite AI-friendly subreddits places where people are generally open to AI, AI art, AI tools, or just having reasonable discussions about the technology.

Would be great to build a useful list here so everyone can discover and use those communities too!

reddit.com
u/xdEArx — 1 day ago

"Real Artists" logic

Was looking through one of my hard drives and came across this drawing I did a while back that I honestly kinda forgot about. I made it just to troll someone on Facebook who was going on and on about how it's impossible to be a "real" artist (whatever that means) and also like A.I. generated images. Thought some people here may get a chuckle, so I decided to share

u/ChadMemestrong — 1 day ago

Niu Lai, a movie in China went viral for its human sloppiness

Some BG: Niu lai is an animated movie cost just 500 dollars, over five years to make. It is a handmade work by only its creator and his mother.(yes, only two people to make a movie) When it was first released, the box office was only 1000 dollars. Many viewers were baffled by its rough visuals, crude animation, absurd storyline, and unbelievably amateurish production. Ironically, these are the very reasons this movie goes viral. The movie has reached a box office of over 3.7 million dollars.

In the comment section, it triggered a heated discussion over ai art. Here are some comments:

Say no to AI slop Say yes to human slop

It's incredible -- a mother and son who knew absolutely nothing about animation spent 5 years making a film, got it released in theaters, and it became an instant hit

Anti AI movement going strong in China.

Stop calling this movie a slop. By definition slop is something that's low efforts and easily made. This film was made by 2 people over the course of 5 years. They worked hard on this film. You can call it bad looking or whatever but calling it slop is wrong.

slop is a term reserved for AI. This, this is art.

My thoughts:

Antis in the comment section are overwhelming and ridiculous. They deny the existence of human slop, yet stigmatize ai works mindlessly.

Anti AI movement in China? Well not quite. I'm a native chinese. Surprisingly, many chinese are actually quite inclusive about AI. There are AI short dramas all over the place and they're quite well-received. Most chinese went to see this move just because they were curious about how bad a movie could be. Also the movie creator said he's gonna make another movie, probably with the same sloppiness.

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u/Rude_Quiet_6071 — 22 hours ago

Ableist Anti-AI People: “This Artist With Disabilities Doesn’t Use AI, So All Artists With Disabilities Shouldn’t Use AI.”

u/Angel-Kat — 2 days ago