Does ending animal farming just shift suffering elsewhere?

I read an argument claiming that the only real solution to animal suffering and exploitation would be for humanity to eventually create some kind of “red button” that could permanently end all life on Earth.

Their reasoning was basically this:

  1. Veganism supposedly isn’t a realistic solution because only a very small percentage of humans are vegan, and many people who avoid animal products do so for environmental rather than animal-rights reasons.
  2. Even if industrial animal farming were abolished, humans might just start raising and slaughtering animals themselves, potentially in even worse conditions with less regulation.
  3. If animal agriculture disappeared and farmland were rewilded, the suffering wouldn’t necessarily disappear. It could instead shift toward wild animals such as birds, rodents, frogs, insects, and other animals living in those ecosystems.
  4. And if we don’t rewild those areas, there would apparently still be suffering among animals living in cities and other human-dominated environments.
  5. Even if animal farming and other major forms of animal exploitation were abolished, individual people could still intentionally harm animals. For example, someone could buy an animal from a pet store or obtain one elsewhere and abuse it in private. So the argument is that as long as humans and other sentient beings exist, there will always be some possibility of suffering that laws, veganism, or regulations can’t completely prevent.
  6. They also argued that, from a practical perspective, being pescatarian would somehow be “better” than being vegan, because overfishing is already severely depleting ocean ecosystems. if there are fewer fish alive in the oceans, then there are fewer individual fish who can experience things like starvation, disease, predation, parasites, injury, and painful deaths.

Their conclusion was basically that veganism and animal-rights reforms can never actually solve the problem of animal suffering, because suffering would always continue somewhere, and therefore extinction would be the only permanent solution.

I’m vegan and this argument genuinely confused me. I’d really like to hear what other vegans think about it. Do you think there are flaws in this reasoning? Does the fact that we can’t eliminate all animal suffering mean that reducing the suffering humans directly cause is somehow pointless? And how do you think about wild-animal suffering and rewilding in relation to veganism?

Edit: added 5-6
Edit2: the person who proposed these arguments isn’t vegan but still advocates for ending all life

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 1 day ago
▲ 406 r/cockatiel

My girl is acting weird

It’s raining outside but she’s acting like it’s raining inside too. She has a neurological condition (we think) because she often falls when she tries to fly and often does odd gestures. She’s scaring both me and her man. Thankfully, she seems okay now after I closed the curtains.

u/Popular-Block-9907 — 3 days ago

How do I deal with a mandatory animal experiment when I’m ethically against it?

I’m a pharmacy student and we have a mandatory lab where a rat is anesthetized and killed. The rat is given an overdose of pentobarbital through the stomach, and once it no longer shows active reflexes, its abdomen is opened and some of its organs are removed and used in experiments with different drugs.

I’m strongly against animal testing and honestly feel horrible knowing that an animal has to die for a lab I’m required to participate in. I understand the purpose of the experiment, but ethically this is really affecting me and making me question my entire degree.

I can’t just drop out of the program either. I genuinely feel like I have no choice but to stay. Becoming a pharmacist was never really my dream in the first place, but I ended up here because there isn’t anything else I know I want to become. Now I honestly don’t even know what to do anymore.

Edit: I’m in Sweden if that matters

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 4 days ago
▲ 10 r/vegan

How do I deal with a mandatory animal experiment when I’m ethically against it?

I’m a pharmacy student and we have a mandatory lab where a rat is anesthetized and killed. The rat is given an overdose of pentobarbital through the stomach, and once it no longer shows active reflexes, its abdomen is opened and some of its organs are removed and used in experiments with different drugs.

I’m strongly against animal testing and honestly feel horrible knowing that an animal has to die for a lab I’m required to participate in. I understand the purpose of the experiment, but ethically this is really affecting me and making me question my entire degree.

I can’t just drop out of the program either. I genuinely feel like I have no choice but to stay. Becoming a pharmacist was never really my dream in the first place, but I ended up here because there isn’t anything else I know I want to become. Now I honestly don’t even know what to do anymore**.**

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 4 days ago

Have you ever been in the psych ward because of your autism?

Interested to hear your experiences and reason why you ended up there, if you’re comfortable sharing. I have been there myself because of high anxiety caused by autism and side effects of antidepressants.

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 5 days ago

My dad eats so much meat

TW!!!!!

My dad will literally buy whole bags of lamb and then cook it in a huge pot with body parts like the skin or head, and the whole house smells like death. 💔 Then he’ll just sit there and eat it like it’s completely normal. I genuinely don’t understand how someone can look at that and want to eat it.

The weird thing is that when I was a child, I used to eat animal intestines that my mom prepared without even thinking twice about what they actually were. I wish I had known better back then. My mom doesn’t eat that stuff anymore, at least.

My dad even refuses to eat any vegan food but he’s somewhat still supportive of vegan products that I eat.

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 5 days ago
▲ 706 r/sweden

Varför är de som jobbar i kassan på systembolaget så trevliga?

Är det bara jag som har märkt att kassörerna på Systembolaget nästan alltid är väldigt trevlig och vänlig? 😭

Typ mycket mer än i vanliga butiker. På ICA kan personen i kassan vara trött, sur eller helt neutral, men på Systembolaget känns det som att alla ler och är jättetrevliga.

Är det något de aktivt lär sig i jobbet, är arbetsmiljön bara bättre, eller råkar de anställa väldigt sociala människor? Någon som jobbar eller har jobbat där får gärna förklara.

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 5 days ago

Can someone who is not good-looking be a part of the animal rights movement?

If someone has an unattractive face, can they still do vegan activism, or should they focus on doing anonymous activism? I personally think everyone should do activism, but I saw a comment where someone said we need the most intellectual,intelligent and good-looking among the vegans to be the outspoken ones. So, the less good-looking, the less intelligent, etc, should avoid putting themselves out there? Because peoppe migjt not take the unattractive ones seriously. Personally I don’t agree, and I don’t really understand why the commenter said so.

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 1 month ago
▲ 693 r/cockatiel

Why is she doing this?

She’s been turning on the air conditioner by herself and is just sitting on the air conditioner a lot recently. is she ok? and idk if her tail is wiggling a bit but it looks like it

u/Popular-Block-9907 — 2 months ago

What are your thoughts about the proextinctionists saying about veganism ?

Veganism is being seen as a distraction by the proextinctionists

The proextinctionists are saying that the vegans cause more wild life suffering and that they’re therefore not morally better than non vegans.

Vegans save much more land and closure of animal farms will double the forests, causing even more wild life suffering.

According to the proextinctionists humans should focus on making life go extinct to end ALL suffering, and apparently vegan activism is distracting from this bigger goal.

What are your thoughts on this?

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 2 months ago

Why are there more vegan options in the food stores in Sweden than in famous cities in Spain such as Marbella?

Does Spain need more animal rights activism?

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 2 months ago

Am I still vegan if I do this?

Im working in a warehouse for the summer and i’ve been packing thousands of milk chocolate boxes. Am I still vegan despite this?

edit: i don’t actually HAVE to work there, but i’m trying to save up money for the future so im working there for the summer. They also have like vegan stuff like bubble gum and chips so it’s not all dairy stuff.

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u/Popular-Block-9907 — 2 months ago