u/ProffesorOfPain

I’ve had this somewhat of a crack fic idea rolling around in my head that I just wanna put on here in case anyone wants to try it. Maybe I’ll write it someday but prolly not anytime soon lol. It’s a mix of book and show canon.

There are so few fics where the mc or SI is actually morally grey or downright evil, I want this Jon Snow SI/OOC fic to be one where he is catelyn’s worst fear and open about wanting winterfell

I’m talking him constantly disrespecting Catelyn, arguing with Ned who is forced to foster him with a few different houses each of whom he runs away from or causes trouble in.

This Jon Snow SI wants to be a Stark even if he knows he’s lyanna’s son, he doesn’t care about the Targaryen side of things. He wants winterfell and is fairly open about it

I’m thinking a few years before the series starts, the SI manages to get the unsullied whip, not sure how but maybe tricking them with fake dragon eggs? Anyway that doesn’t matter, point being he gets a army, buys or build a fleet and becomes a pirate

Using the stepstones as a base of operations, he basically chills and does sell sword stuff, maybe he could also send ships beyond the wall to bring over any wildlings tribes willing to live on the stepstones and fight for him when the time comes. Jon does all this until Ned dies and then Robb declares himself king in the north but instead of joining Robb, Jon brings his massive fleet and army to Stannis offering to join him in return for Robb going to the nights watch and Jon becoming lord paramount of the north. Bran already had his “accident” and Rickon is hella young so this doesn’t seem entirely out of the realm of possibility

Tho Jon is gonna have to convince Stannis not to take him hostage but that’ll be easy since Jon has an army on his back as well.

Imagine when Stannis renly and Catelyn meet, Jon is also there and that interaction would be hilarious. Hell, maybe Jon can help Stannis and Melisandre kill Stannis if he’s a damn good warg

Maybe he can become stannis’s master of whisperers or master of ships but that don’t matter as long as Jon plays a big role in Stannis winning the battle of blackwater

After he does that, Jon takes and Sansa and goes to the north and by this time the Ironborn has already attacked so he helps northern lords recover their castles and draws Robb back for a Battle of the Brothers

Not sure if I want Jon to kill Robb, that would be kinda sad but I do want kings landing to blow up when Stannis burns Joffrey, tommen, etc, maybe because of some ritual gone wrong. With Stannis dead or turned into a fiery monster if Melisandre magically helps him survive, Jon declare himself king in the north after beating Robb, manages to win, long live House Stark, the HIGH Kings of the North cuz they rule all Westeros by the end from their seat at winterfell (which hopefully is expanded into a city by Jon’s descendents)

Northern lords will prolly distrust him but he does have a big unsullied army alongside any other people he recruited as a pirate, he also helped them defeat the Ironborn so there’s that

Ya that’s about it, it’s just an idea I have so if you don’t like it, I understand. Most people want a fic where Jon happily helps the Starks win and I just want something different that’s all, a true morally grey or evil SI/OOC Jon Snow you know?

Also Jon and Alys Karstsrk seems like they’d be a cooler couple than Jon and danaerys

From what I can tell there are plenty of eras in the history where the Starks and the north did have fleets but were lost

The oldest possibly being Brandon the Shipwright of course who most likely lost all of it in the sunset sea and whatever remained was burned by his son, Brandon the Burner

There are a few more cases as well.

Theon Stark “the Hungry Wolf” (also the coolest stark king like ever for me) sailed to Andalos during the Andalusia invasion and practically destroyed them, this surely must’ve required a fleet not only to land troops but also to show the strength of the north and why it, of all other regions of Westeros, can and will resist any future Andal invasions that are launched

I also don’t believe the andal invasion was a single event, there likely multiple and were stopped by other stark kings in the north like Jon Stark who is said to have fought raiders. Maybe in a naval battle?

Now another case comes from the ASOIAF wiki where Balon Greyjoy, a different one from the one we know, did invade the north and destroyed the northern fleet as said below

“King Balon V Greyjoy, called Coldwind, a king chosen by a kingsmoot, who destroyed the fleet of the King in the North”

My theory or rather understanding of it all is that the North can have a fleet, it just can’t sustain it for long, maybe it’d a resource issue? (Tho they have slot of wood) or just a Ironborn issue where whenever they even try to build a fleet, someone invades them to make sure they remain isolated and weak naval wise

Maybe a fleet would simply make the north too strong so the remaining houses of Westeros who live nearby like the Ironborn invade it to stop it. The Andals continued this politicos tradition maybe, making sure the north could never keep a fleet even if they make it

This is just me throwing my thoughts out there based on ASOIAF history, maybe it’s wrong but I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts regardless

Edit: I forgot to take the arryns into account too ya, the three sisters are said to have ships of their own so maybe they were a bigger threat pre-conquest and prevented the eastern coast of the north from hosting a fleet for long. The war across the water definitely crippled any northern fleet

Edit 2: During the war across the water, house stark raided gulltown which they definitely couldn’t have been done without ships so that’s another example of the north having a fleet and losing it, the war across the water prolly played a big role in the north’s lack of a fleet

Not sure how to frame this but I’ll try, I’m a fantasy nerd too, a song of ice and fire and lotr are my favourites because of how deep their lore and has a history spanning thousands of years

But whenever I consider reading Malazan, all I hear is how

“you have to figure everything out yourself”
“There’s no lore hundreds of pages”
“It’s like a maze that you gotta piece together”

The series does seem interesting but I just feel discouraged to read it when I hear stuff like this, so am I misinterpreting what people say or is it really as inaccessible as people say?

I’m deciding to either read this or the prince of nothing series since I just really really like fantasy series where the characters feel unique and entire world feels alive, sorta like a song of ice and fire where there’s histories spanning thousands of years with kingdoms that rose and fell

So ya, advise me in this matter I guess. Thanks

Edit: Ok, so far this entire comment section makes me feel like a student getting scolded by a very demanding teacher. People seem to be questioning my reading comprehension and not just plainly answering my question. If this community is this toxic, I think I won’t be reading the books at the moment, oh well there’s always more fantasy fish in the fantasy sea

I’d prefer it with Jon or even a OC/SI as king in the north but I don’t mind Robb as well as long as the fanfic doesn’t involve Jon claiming the iron throne or Robb doing so

I want a pure north centric fanfic where the north becomes a independent kingdom and stays that way, I’m fine if they take over all Westeros as long as they don’t sit on the iron throne or rule from winterfell

Yes I know I’m asking a very rare fic type but it’s the kind I want so ya let me know, hopefully some more than 60k words

For the record, it’s mentioned there are maybe cadet branches of house stark in barrowton or white harbour

Imagine being a member of house stark but you’re from some cadet branch from 5000 years ago that lives in barrowton, it’s not even a real city, you’re basically in the economy plus seat of a plane

I’m imagining them as like ruling over a village really sorta like landed knights, a holdfast maybe but let’s say hypothetically you’re an 4th of a 4th of this cadet branch, at that point damn I would be pissed at my station in life

Basically being a smallfolk with a last name

Ok now I have a fanfic idea of writing a crack fic like this where the self insert mc says screw it, I’ll find a army and conquer the north when Robb goes south or teams up with the wildlings and acc helps them get across becoming the true and rightful

KING IN DA NORF

For the record, it’s mentioned there are maybe cadet branches of house stark in barrowton or white harbour

Imagine being a member of house stark but you’re from some cadet branch from 5000 years ago that lives in barrowton, it’s not even a real city, you’re basically in the economy plus seat of a plane

I’m imagining them as like ruling over a village really sorta like landed knights, a holdfast maybe but let’s say hypothetically you’re an 4th of a 4th of this cadet branch, at that point damn I would be pissed at my station in life

Basically being a smallfolk with a last name

Ok now I have a crack fanfic idea of writing a fic like this where the self insert mc says screw it, I’ll find a army and conquer the north when Robb goes south or teams up with the wildlings and acc helps them get across becoming the true and rightful

KING IN DA NORF

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s likely that they would but it does feels like if anyone did unite Westeros before the conquest, even if it’s for like a generation at best, it seems like it would have been the ironborn of all people

Somehow even tho they’re piss poor, house hoare conquered a large chunk of Westeros and even reduced the territory of the powerful stormlands over a few generations. In the past, they also ruled parts of the north and reach, mainly the islands but also some of the mainlands I believe

Now imagine a nightmare scenario where house hoare united all Westeros before the Targaryens. I truly wonder if the ironborn woukd change their ways or find some way to find more common ground to better rule

Or I’m wrong and they’re all too dumb so they’ll lose it in all in a generation who knows, they’ll need like 10 jaeherys level rulers if they even wanna keep the territory they conquered without dragons which is unlikely

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s likely that they would but it does feels like if anyone did unite Westeros before the conquest, even if it’s for like a generation at best, it seems like it would have been the ironborn of all people

Somehow even tho they’re piss poor, house hoare conquered a large chunk of Westeros and even reduced the territory of the powerful stormlands over a few generations. In the past, they also ruled parts of the north and reach, mainly the islands but also some of the mainlands I believe

Now imagine a nightmare scenario where house hoare united all Westeros before the Targaryens. I truly wonder if the ironborn woukd change their ways or find some way to find more common ground to better rule

Or I’m wrong and they’re all too dumb so they’ll lose it in all in a generation who knows, they’ll need like 10 jaeherys level rulers if they even wanna keep the territory they conquered without dragons which is unlikely

Ok just trying to make this sense of this idea in the fandom that the north absolutely can’t survive without being independence and the evidence for this notion largely seems cherry picked from specific instances where a Targaryen king like Aegon V send food during a harsh winter or whatever Bolton girl asked for help from Aegon 3

These seems to be the 2 instances brought forward but if the north did become independent, it’s not like they’d absolutely starve to death. I’m not denying that the north won’t suffer but not all trade will immediately halt forever

I think this seems to be a case of the fandom being TOO realistic about a fantasy world where a single dynasty somehow ruled for 8000 years and was independent for most of it, their time under the Targaryen was a fraction compared to them being independent so I really believe the north cna survive and maybe if Robb had won with the riverlands added to the north kingdom, they would have thrived after years of recovery (assuming white walkers don’t destroy everything but that’s a exceptional circumstance that we haven’t reached in the books yet so let’s ignore for now)

If you do disagree, that’s fine to each their own, just throwing my 2 cents out there to get more viewpoints

Now debate away, thank you for coming to my ted talk 👍🏻 👍🏻 👍🏻

P.S: THE KING IN THE DA NORF! RAHHHHHHH

Edit: Dorne was also independent, yes it’s vastly different from the north and has more proximity to the free cities but even if tariffs or whatever were placed by Targaryens to economically pressure it, it does show that any one of the 7 kingdoms can survive on their own

Edit 2: Saying “too realistic” prolly isn’t the best choice of words, basically what I’m saying it “people are looking too deep into it even tho kingdom economies isn’t George’s specialty so we don’t know how the kingdoms did function when they were independent

Edit 3: I can’t believe I have to clarify this but a region going independent doesn’t mean trade automatically stops. In the real world things are different cus we’re so economically tangled together but in ASOIAF, iron throne rule was fairly lax and regional lord paramount practically ruled like kings in all but having the title

Ok just trying to make this sense of this idea in the fandom that the north absolutely can’t survive without being independence and the evidence for this notion largely seems cherry picked from specific instances where a Targaryen king like Aegon V send food during a harsh winter or whatever Bolton girl asked for help from Aegon 3

These seems to be the 2 instances brought forward but if the north did become independent, it’s not like they’d absolutely starve to death. I’m not denying that the north won’t suffer but not all trade will immediately halt forever

I think this seems to be a case of the fandom being TOO realistic about a fantasy world where a single dynasty somehow ruled for 8000 years and was independent for most of it, their time under the Targaryen was a fraction compared to them being independent so I really believe the north cna survive and maybe if Robb had won with the riverlands added to the north kingdom, they would have thrived after years of recovery (assuming white walkers don’t destroy everything but that’s a exceptional circumstance that we haven’t reached in the books yet so let’s ignore for now)

If you do disagree, that’s fine to each their own, just throwing my 2 cents out there to get more viewpoints

Now debate away, thank you for coming to my ted talk 👍🏻 👍🏻 👍🏻

P.S: THE KING IN THE DA NORF! RAHHHHHHH

Edit: Dorne was also independent, yes it’s vastly different from the north and has more proximity to the free cities but even if tariffs or whatever were placed by Targaryens to economically pressure it, it does show that any one of the 7 kingdoms can survive on their own

Edit 2: Saying “too realistic” prolly isn’t the best choice of words, basically what I’m saying it “people are looking too deep into it even tho kingdom economies isn’t George’s specialty so we don’t know how the kingdoms did function when they were independent

Edit 3: I can’t believe I have to clarify this but a region going independent doesn’t mean trade automatically stops. In the real world things are different cus we’re so economically tangled together but in ASOIAF, iron throne rule was fairly lax and regional lord paramount practically ruled like kings in all but having the title

Seriously with a rise in people that read fan fiction, people seem to have forgotten fandom etiquette and don’t offer constructive criticism but only call it that to hate on writers

People need to remember that fanfics are, at the end of day, fan made fiction, nobody does it for money and there may be people who don’t do it for criticism either and that’s okay

All I’m trying to say if you’re a fanfic writer, remember that for every hater you get there’s a million people who’ll prolly like your fic the way ur writing and if not, ignore em or delete their comments cuz nobody should be prevented from writing by trolls on the internet

On the other hand, if you DO want constructive criticism, I sincerely hope you get that instead of trolls just making fun of parts of ur plot or writing or both

If you want to offer someone constructive criticism, my suggestion is to praise something first before going into it since it shows good intent

That’s my rant for today so go forth and write whatever you want even if it’s a fanfic taking place during the damn age of heroes or even the dawn age or in a future where Westeros is inhabited by talking apes and moon boy for all I know

:)

King Jaehaerys and Alyssane have another son right before her death

A somewhat funny thought that I kinda wanna turn into a fanfic

What if Queen Alyssane somehow had a miracle child, a son right before or death or even if that childbirth complications ends up killing her. Viserys is already named heir I believe at this point so woukd they just disregard him or would jaeherys reconsider things now that he has a son. Or would Jae just betroth him to rhaenyra

For fun’s sake, let’s call this oc little Jaeherys junior, bright kid, would make a good king definitely.

What changes, especially if the dance of dragons still happens if viserys usurps the kid

Every time I re-read ASOIAF again, I can’t just help but feel bad for the smallfolk and I desperately want them to evolve into a democracy of some kind cuz goddamn they deserve better. It’s plainly clear that most nobility doesn’t care about anyone but themselves

People like Pia and the brothel girls have it even worse. Being a woman in Westeros must absolutely suck. It also doesn’t help that the war of 5 kings has burnt the riverlands to the ground and the Mountain hurt so many. There are some good people who are of noble birth but the very act of being a lord makes it wrong to me

Don’t get me wrong, I love the series and pretty much all my fav characters are nobles but overall, I just feel bad for the smallfolk who die by the dozen to diseases like the shivers and stuff while the lords have maesters

I once read a fanfic of a communist revolution in Westeros, it was n unrealistic fanfic of course but just satisfying to see the nobles get destroyed and the smallfolk get some system better than the one they have cuz let’s be real things can’t be worse than their current situation. Also another reason I’m team smallfolk during the dance of the dragons , the dragons had it coming

I hope George isn’t planning an elective monarchy as the ending, seems like a recipe for disaster. Westeros will def be hella destroyed after the second long night so a new age of heroes would be bittersweet with Westeros returning to the age of hundred kingdoms with the lands beyond the wall playing a role too if they keep Jon snow’s ending like the show where he joins the free folk. I think I’d like that since it’ll be sad but good

No, I’m not making this post to crap on house Targaryen or start some Jon snow vs Danaerys argument

Also Yes I’m aware that targaryens play a important role in the books and fire and blood exists and that there’s just more stories about the Targaryens

Now that that’s out the way, overall the tv shows including house of the dragon and game of thrones to a certain extent feel more centred around targaryens rather than the starks which is something the book emphasizes since so many POV characters are starks or stark-adjacent. Similarly, the books and George’s own words make it clear that the the conflict around the iron throne (made by the Targaryens) is a distraction from The long night and the others which is most likely connected to stark history in some shape or form

In both tv shows, it’s the opposite. The long night is brushed over and the focus is on the iron throne and politics, most of which isn’t exactly done the best but that’s a different topic. Of course, there’s more material on the Targaryens but that alone doesn’t justify the way the tv shows feeds the misconceptions that Targaryens and Valyrian were actually superior to others

Dunk and egg was a breath of fresh air since it focused more on the smallfolk but the entirety of the game of thrones live action universe is focusing too much on the Targaryens. As you can tell, I’m picking my words carefully cuz there’s a certain portion of the fanbase that is extremely toxic on anyone that doesn’t agree with their repetitive views

I just hope that the tv shows like house of the dragon follow the way dunk and egg presented the Targaryens in the books. I hope the nymeria show and future projects change this direction. Personally, I’d like a tv show on Theon Stark, the hungry wolf and the way he dealt with so many enemies including the annals. Aside from that, only winds of winter can help with us learning more about the starks

So I’ve got this idea running around in my head that I’m hoping people can help with.

About a year or 2 before Robert’s Rebellion, Hoster Tully and Richard Stark have Catelyn and Brandon married and by the time of his death, he already has a son named Theon Stark (named after the past stark king) who would be lord of winterfell at birth since the mad king killed his dad

I’m thinking that Ned would be regent in this case since he can’t and definitely wouldn’t usurp his nephew and upset hoster Tully as some people suggested to me that he would. Robert rebellion happens, Robert gives Ned the lands around the Gift as a lordship to Ned who still marries Catelyn to continue the alliance with the Tullys and all his kids with Catelyn are half siblings to Theon Stark with Robb and Jon being 2 years younger than him

The main point of divergence is that the SI really wants to make the north independent and strong, there won’t be a major tech uplift just improvements that would acc help.

What I need help with is 2 plot points that I want to reach but I’m not sure how it can be done realistically enough. Of course this is a fanfic so it won’t have strict realism but a certain degree of it would hel

1. The moment he becomes lord of winterfell and all the lords swear allegiance to him formally, he introduces a plan for all of them to sign or place their seal on a letter demanding that king Robert pay money from Aerys’s treasury for the damage that the north suffered from the rebellion and part grievances, I’m not sure how much money but let’s say a million gold dragons or half that. How would Robert be convinced to agree and ofc Jon Arryn definitely won’t so how do I make Robert be the one to basically say “who cares just give him the money it’s the lest the north deserves.
2. Afterwards, I want him to send a letter to Jon Arryn offering to foster Sweetrobin, the SI would wanna do this to basically use him as a hostage to ensure the vale supports him when he eventually fights for northern independence. How can Jon Arryn agree and more importantly, how would Arryn make sure lysa doesn’t just run to the vale like she did in canon

By the time Jon Arryn dies, I’m thinking that the SI destroys the letter sent by Lysa so that Ned doesn’t go south, Sansa is still betrothed but it’s a long bethrotal which ensures she remains at Ned’s castle in the gift, Theon marries a oc daughter of Robett Glover. Not sure how Robert will die but I think Cersei would’ve killed him even if Ned wasnt named hand of the king but in this case, renly supports Stannis, Tyrells join the lannisters the moment Theon ends Joffrey)s bethrotal with Sansa, north declares independence much to the anger of Ned at his nephew/step son

The vale and riverlands both join the north along with the iron islands who raid the westerlands (not sure about this one but seems possible if Balon isn’t as dumb as I think). Fanfic eventually ends with dany’s dragons dying in the long night, maybe one stolen by Euron who also dies after turning on the north by taking the iron islands around the time of the long night, eventually the SI wins and the 7 kingdoms basically return to the state it was before the conquest after the long night with the sharks as the dominant power instead of the Hoares

All in all, give constructive criticism not just criticism, be nice cuz this is just me spitballing 😭