u/Puzzleheaded_Emu7511

Hi all,

I would not like to make this post sound like a critique against feminism in any way, I just want to hear what people think on this topic. For context, I am a 24 year old man with little relationship experience which is likely why I don't know a lot on this topic. Over the past year, I've been making a good effort to meet more friends and potential partners after being fairly isolated socially in engineering school. As I've gotten to connect with more women either through dating apps or platonic female friendships, I have been feeling the sense that a lot of people, including both men and women who are supposedly liberal and feminist, seem to be pretty rigidly fixed on the idea of following traditional gender roles in relationships. As an example, there always seems to be this expectation on dating apps and among female friends that the men is to be the pursuer (asking out, planning dates, paying in full, doing grand romantic gestures like picking flowers for a first date, etc) and women to be treasured as precious and fragile.

Maybe most people really are fine with this concept but I don't really feel that way. I'm not even trying to be performative and saying how much I really align with feminism even though I'm a leftist, I just genuinely don't like doing these things assigned to me just because I'm a "man." If you don't want these strict gender roles, why am I expected to pamper you and shower you with compliments and flowers like you are a delicate princess (even if it's actually in a manipulative way that is extremely ungenuine). I can understand gift giving to each other in genuine ways that's actually reciprocated, I'm only really referring to where it's one-sided and it's the men doing all the pampering. That feels incredibly ungenuine to me.

Honestly a perfect first date for me sounds like grabbing coffee and just talking about our intellectual interests, including a bunch of nerdy topics, and see if we can have an engaging conversation. I don't really feel emasculated at all if I split the check, I just don't really care. Maybe it's because I grew up in a household with hard working and independent women and an unemployed dad, which caused me to never really internalize gender roles as much as other men and women.

So I'm left here asking this question in an attempt to make a reality check. Do I just have bad experience, severely misinterpret others motives, or have genuinely accurate views on this? Obviously, not all women agree with each other on this topic and I know some will not care, but it makes me sad to see how traditional lots of people actually are despite the fact that feminism is so mainstream and supposedly "accepted" now.

Hi all,

For context, I am a 24 year old man with little relationship experience which is likely why I don't know a lot on this topic. Over the past year, I've been making a good effort to meet more friends and potential partners after being fairly isolated socially in engineering school. As I've gotten to connect with more women either through dating apps or platonic female friendships, I have been feeling the sense that a lot of people, including both men and women, seem to be pretty rigidly fixed on the idea of following traditional gender roles in relationships. As an example, there always seems to be this expectation on dating apps and among female friends that the men is to be the pursuer (asking out, planning dates, paying in full, doing grand romantic gestures like picking flowers, etc) and women to be treasured as precious and fragile.

Maybe most people really are fine with this concept but I don't really feel that way. I'm not even trying to be performative and saying how much I really align with feminism even though I'm a leftist, I just genuinely don't like doing these things assigned to me just because I'm a "man." If people demand equal pay, why should I be expected to be the first one paying on dates? If you don't want to be a housewife, why am I expected to pamper you and shower you with compliments and flowers like you are a delicate princess (even if it's actually in a manipulative way that is extremely ungenuine). I can understand gift giving to each other in genuine ways that's actually reciprocated, I'm only really referring to where it's one-sided and it's the men doing all the pampering. That feels incredibly ungenuine to me, and it seems to push for this protector / protected dynamic and literally reinforcing men's expectations to be stoic and women's expectations to be fragile and "sacred." I don't want to live in the fucking 1950s.

Honestly a perfect first date for me sounds like grabbing coffee and just talking about our intellectual interests, including a bunch of nerdy topics, and see if we can have an engaging conversation. I don't really feel emasculated at all if I split the check, I just don't really care. Maybe it's because I grew up in a household with hard working and independent women and an unemployed dad, which caused me to never really internalize gender roles as much as other men and women.

So I'm left here asking this question in an attempt to make a reality check. Do I just have bad experience, severely misinterpret others motives, or have genuinely accurate views on this? Obviously, not all women agree with each other on this topic and I know some will not care, but it makes me sad to see how traditional lots of people actually are despite the fact that feminism is so mainstream and supposedly "accepted" now.

By nerdy I mean like girls who are into stuff like gaming, board games, LOTR, etc.

I know these things have become more gender equal over time but I'm unsure because honestly I don't have the best luck with meeting this kind of girl on a dating app. Every guy on reddit seems to say they're very rare to come by which either makes me think that I should lower my standards or that the average male redditor doesn't know very many women (definitely true).

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I (24M) have been using dating apps for several weeks and it's just a depressing experience. There are a handful of nerdy girls who are pretty cute but I don't match with them. I get the impression that there are literally hundreds of men lining up to ask these girls out.

Maybe I'm particularly picky for wanting a nerdy woman but honestly I've never found myself getting along with anyone else. The dates I've gotten along well with were nerds and all of my biggest unrequited crushes were also nerds. Maybe it's weird to make it a part of my identity but these are the people I like to be around and who I truly feel myself with.

So is my luck just awful or are my type of women really just this rare?

I (24M) have been single all my life. I had a few dates when I was in college but nothing ever really went anywhere other than a single hook-up. I was pretty isolated growing up and I've always found myself fitting in with the "nerd" crowd (as in playing video games and board games, liking indie movies, anime, going to alt concerts, in STEM, etc). Though I used to be unhealthy looking, I would say I'm fairly attractive now. I work as a software engineer in a big city, go out with friends several times a week, do a bunch of outdoorsy stuff, go to the gym, eat healthy, etc. But honestly I've never gotten close to a relationship.

I have been using dating apps for several weeks and it's just a depressing experience. There are a handful of nerdy girls who are pretty cute but I don't match with them. I get the impression that there are literally hundreds of men lining up to ask these girls out.

Maybe I'm particularly picky for wanting a nerdy woman but honestly I've never found myself getting along with anyone else. The dates I've gotten along well with were nerds and all of my biggest unrequited crushes were also nerds. Maybe it's weird to make it a part of my identity but these are the people I like to be around and who I truly feel myself with.

So is my luck just awful or are my type of women really just this rare?

I (24M) started using dating apps (Bumble and Hinge) for the first time in a while here and I feel like I'm barely getting any traction (2 matches in 1st week). I used them back in my college town and felt like I had more likes around then. Maybe I changed my profile too much but I was wondering if that was normal for other guys (and women, though I know your experience is different) in Chicago.