u/Raziel103

Not sure if the title explains exactly what I mean, my question is when you heard about MMORPGs what you imagined them to be, what you thought MMORPG will have?

And when you played them did the game match your expectations?

For me before I played them I have completely different idea about them, for me I never thought about gearing, raiding and dungeons.

It was part of it as well I started with WoW and I thought about something similar to lord of the rings.

But the main hook for me was the idea to play an open world game, something like GTA but in fantasy world, but with other players living with me in the same world, something like new place to live in where I can be whatever I want.

Yet the gameplay difference between open world games like GTA or the Witcher is huge.

In MMORPGs the focus is on getting more powers, lvling up, farming strong gear and more.

But games like GTA, the Witcher and red dead who are the peak of gaming industry don't have any of these stuff, I mean other than missions or side missions you don't have anything else to do, yet people play them and have so much fun with them, sometimes I think what if an open world Rockstar game built like an MMORPG, for sure it would be chaos like GTA online, if not more with huge number of players.

I wouldn't say WoW didn't gave me what I expected, especially in vanilla it felt like adventure in huge world with many people, it had for sure that gearing and power lvl fantasy in it, but it matched my expectations till we reached the max lvl and the game feel change from open world adventure to more of a dungeon and raid games.

With WoW this also changed the game design in future expansions but I already did post about that here before.

This is my expectations for MMORPGs and what I really found in them.

What did you expect from them and did the games you played matches your expectations?

Based in my experience as mostly storm league player, these are the heroes I think become almost auto win after 20.

Leoric with drain life build, against a team that have good front lane enemies, after 20 with the extra armor and the self heal he become unstoppable force, he have some counters like ana bomb, but ana now is not in very good place as a healer, it rare to see her getting picked.

Mephisto with lightning nova build and shade of Mephisto, active players who abuse the cdr and pick Durance of hate heroic can easily kill 2-3 players with just one good move at late game.

Cain with upgraded potions build, and respawn potion 20 talent you can give unlimited healing to your team, I wouldn't say this auto carry, it have many counters and need team that understands how to use the healing zone, but it also allow the team to have strong sustainability and win most of the time.

These are the ones I have in top of my head based on storm league, for sure in quick match and Aram all of this changes as the gameplay and tactics are different in these modes like Quick match allow heroes like Tracer and Zeratul to shine because the chaotic nature of it, and Aram give heroes that have quests to get stronger because the constant fight and easier quest farming like trash lightning Thrall or Azmodan.

So what heroes you think can carry hard after 20?

Based on the game mode of course.

Halfbreed races exist in the warcraft franchise, yet their presence doesn't feel strong, other than the Mak'nathal in TBC and the Arathi in TWW, I don't remember other strong presence for halfbreed races, yet every new expansion in Azeroth we see many new races.

So are you interested to see the franchise put halfbreed races under the spotlight or you think focus on current races or adding new ones is better direction?

For me I am not sure, I mean halfbreed races can be interesting or can be boring, and sometimes they go over the top.

In design I think there is room for exploration and creating something unique like the Mak'nathal look different from both ogres and orcs, I mean based on Rexxar model as in TBC they used orcs models.

But sometimes you get ones that look no different than one of the races, like Aerator who recently got new unique model, yet his model look exactly like an elf, unlike the Arathi who look human with pointy ears, however even they are not that interesting in design, it's hard to notice it from far away and they look human.

Garona is other case, but she more because her back story was retconed from half human, half orc to half orc half Draenei, yet she look exactly as an orc, yet there is so much room to explore very unique designs with these concepts and even create factions based on them.

So yes of halfbreed races designed in interesting way and they made them as their own small faction with their own unique culture and identity I would prefer that over new races that look like animals walking on two legs or even some of the sub races like void elves and lightforged Draenei.

However if these half races designed to look exactly like one of the two races like half elves, with nothing that make them stand out, I think it would be boring.

I noticed most of the new MMORPG coming up these days lack the RPG elements, the lvling up experience is rushed and feel not important, the focus mostly on end game.

But as someone who love Classic/Vanilla WoW, this is one of the main reasons I dislike most modern MMOs, even retail/modern WoW.

I even wish if classic had more rpg elements as there is more room for exploration.

What hooked me into WoW classic to this day is this feel of fantasy adventure, something that feel like a D&D session in huge world with many people and the game is the DM.

Things like class quests where a player need to do something to learn new abilities, like a druid need to talk to entities to learn new animals forms, or a shaman do quest to gain new totem that allow him to cast some specific spells.

Each class offer things to different players other than combat, like a warlock summon players and mage portals or even give that specific class a new style of gameplay like rogue can pickpocket and hunter petting their animal companion...

An item player find in the world to unlock a boss in a dungeon.

I can go on, but to keep it short, I think this is why most modern MMORPG don't hook players, I mean end game is important to keep players playing after hitting max lvl, but if the game lack that sense of adventure and exploration, that grounded D&D or lord of the rings adventure vibes, why I would be interested or invested in this world, if this world doesn't feel like a world but like a instances runs, like a loots game or better say a casino where all the gameplay is about killing the dungeons and raids bosses to get that loot that I want to get, a gear, a mount or other things.

The focus on end game or making the game feel more like rust or Minecraft clone many new MMORPG try is not what most of the players want, we mostly want a world that feel alive, with lore, characters and stories, to feel like we are in adventure, exploring this world and find real people who join us and help us in these adventures.

As someone who love the Dune world, it felt very sad with the direction Dune awakening have took.

The question is, do you want to see more focus on RPG in MMORPGs?

Do you think the focus on end game and the lack of RPG elements is the reason most of the new MMORPG fails?

Does solo RPG games mechanics work on MMORPGs, if yes is there any of these mechanics you want to see in MMORPGs?

We are not sure about the series future, I was thinking what the best direction the series could take?

Should the series end or continue?

Some consider Defiance to be the ending of the series yet I think in a way it ended Raziel story but Kain and most importantly Nosgoth story didn't end yet, there is many not answered questions and the story doesn't have closure.

Maybe Dark prophecy was the ending we didn't get, but let say for example Kain story ends with it, maybe it answers all the questions.

Should Dark Prophecy be the end of the series? Treat the series more as a story? Or treat it as a world?

The difference is with a single story, the focus will be mostly on the main character journey development, with satisfying ending.

While world building is focus more on the world, create spin off and more stories inside Nosgoth.

For me I am not sure, I mean for most part LoK treated as character development story and it didn't have so much world building, maybe the first game had some world building but after the main focus was mostly on characters development.

So part of me think the series maybe better end at Defiance or Dark Prophecy, the story and writing is very good, the more you expand the more chances to mess up the story and turn it to something more generic.

Other part want to see the series grows, imagine the possibilities, from adventure game like the Witcher on Nosgoth to maybe even an MMORPG based on Nosgoth, all of these possibilities sound interesting, but again it could be bad as we seen with Ascendance.

So what you think, do you want the series to grow and have more?

Or you prefer the series to end and find closure?

I know there is nothing confirms that BO2 will be remastered, and I am not even coming from place of hate.

To be honest BO2 is not my favourite in the franchise, yet I will enjoy playing it if they remastered it, and I am sure many of us here will do as well.

However, if we think about it from the franchise future and crystal dynamic perspective, is it worth it to have it remastered?

The game when it was released, it wasn't huge success, the gameplay and narrative wasn't that great.

Also defiance remaster compared to the soul reaver didn't get many players.

So yes mostly us the old fans of the franchise will love to see it, but the question will it help the franchise create a new audience?

What I mostly afraid of if they remastered BO2, if they release it but it doesn't sell well.

This could be a reason for CD to return the LoK franchise back to the shelves, if Ascendance didn't do that already...

People dislike dead sun mostly because it doesn't feel like a legacy of Kain game, I agree.

The tone shifted, there is wrong things like the spirit realm function and look different from what we seen in soul reaver games and the game have technical problems.

But now looking at upcoming project like The blood of Dawnwalker, I think dead sun as it own game could have been interesting from concept and story, not gonna explain that but there is videos that talk about that.

Don't get me wrong, BoD look very interesting and it's clearly very inspired by the first blood omen, yet something about it feel generic in gameplay and story, yet dead sun felt otherworldly, unique and stand out.

The way they build that world, the color palette, the dirtiness of the world, the dark themes in the story that feel mix of occultist and biblical, the fast pacing combat and the platforming using both physical and spiritual realms.

My point is I feel as it own, dead sun could have been a success if the concept the Devs aimed for works and if they didn't face technical problems.

What you think about dead sun as it own game outside of the LoK series?

Would you play it?

In both blood omen2 and Defiance, the Hyldens portrayed as the villains, yet they are the victims and the ones who fought against the elder god who is the true villain of Nosgoth.

From my understanding the elder god need souls to feed and become stronger with the passage of time, that why he ordered the ancient vampires to start a holy war against the Hyldens.

But also the vampires banished the Hyldens to the demons realm using the pillars, not sure if that the elder god plan, mostly not because wars is what help him feeds on soul and encourage both factions to have bigger population and have more children, so higher birth and death rates, more food to elder god.

The Hyldens cursed the vampires with immortality, thirst for blood and they can't procreate.

Is this really a curse? Other than the blood lust for sure.

It felt more like an attack against the elder god instead of the vampires.

So do the Hyldens know about the elder god and his plans?

But in the game events the elder god is helping the Hyldens for some reason and at the end of Defiance we see Mobius discussion with the elder god how they gonna deal with the Hyldens, so mostly they are not allies, it maybe the elder god need more souls to feed on, and he plan to manipulate the Hyldens in a way or another.

To return to the point of this post, based on the information we have about the war between the ancient vampires and Hyldens, it sounds like the Hyldens are the good guys for some extend, the ancient vampires attacked the Hyldens in self righteous crusade and the Hyldens were the victims.

The Hyldens who are like the vampire and humans are native to Nosgoth, yet they are banished.

The Hyldens did some terrible acts in BO2 and Defiance, but you may argue they did that to save their people as the vampires also did as bad if not worse acts to save their people as well like feeding on people and kidnapping children guardian.

There is many things I can talk about but the point is clear.

Why the game portray Hyldens as Villains and the vampires as heroes or the lesser evil?

Other question, do you think there is factions conflict between the Hyldens in the demons realm?