u/Remarkable_Note971

I was thinking about how Fiyero had to listen to the lion, who he helped rescue, blame Elphaba for him being cowardly because she released him into the wild as a cub and he never learned to grow a spine.

Then he had to listen to the hate Boq was spreading for Elphaba the whole time he traveled with Dorothy as the scarecrow. It must have been a very long journey for him having to listen to the blame and hate from Boq and the lion.

Thoughts?

Really random thing but how did i not notice how tattered Elphaba's cape was? I hadn't really paid much attention before but it showed how isolated she was. Obviously being in hiding she didn't have access to new clothes so she had to make do with the old tattered clothes she had.

Also her dress she is wearing at the end when Fiyero comes to her as the scarecrow appears to her old defying gravity dress which is also worn and tattered.

thoughts?

Really random thing but how did i not notice how tattered Elphaba's cape was? I hadn't really paid much attention before but it showed how isolated she was. Obviously being in hiding she didn't have access to new clothes so she had to make do with the old tattered clothes she had.

Also her dress she is wearing at the end when Fiyero comes to her as the scarecrow appears to her old defying gravity dress which is also worn and tattered.

thoughts?

So really subtle thing to notice but if you look closely Elphaba's broom is in the fireplace right before Glinda goes to confront MM. Dorothy and her companions brought the broom to the Wizard and MM threw it in the fire. It's subtle but it's cool.

Thoughts?

It came at a cost

All three core characters got their hearts desire, what they really wanted in the end but it came at a cost for all three of them.

All Elphaba really wanted was to be loved and accepted, and to save the Animals and Oz. In the end she is loved and accepted for who she is by Fiyero and she does save Oz and the Animals through Glinda but it also came at a cost.

She had to leave the only friend she ever had, she never got to see Glinda change Oz and welcome the Animals back, she has to die as the wicked witch and that's how she will be remembered in Oz and she has to leave the place she had been fighting for. Despite all of that, she has someone who loved her unconditionally and never betrayed her and that was enough for her to be happy.

Like Elphaba, Fiyero wanted to be loved and accepted, he wanted someone to see him as more than the carefree prince he pretended to be. Elphaba gave him what he wanted because she loved and accepted him as a person, not the facade, not the prince but him. Fiyero goes from not caring about life and just dancing through it to being grateful to be alive in the end because of Elphaba's acceptance.

His happiness also came at a cost. He's lost everything in the end, his status is gone, his popularity is gone, his "looks" are gone, he is no longer someone who is considered attractive by society, he is traitor to Oz and he was dead to the people of Oz. He endured torture and isn't even human anymore.

He lost all of it because he loved Elphaba and it was the cost of that love, that's why he doesn't care about what he's lost all that matters to him is they're both alive and can finally be together and be free.

Glinda also gets what she wanted, her choices made her popular and in the end she was the most popular person in Oz. She even gets magic in the end which she said was her hearts desire but that came at a cost. Because she put being popular over everything and everyone else she ends up alone. Her choices caused her to lose the only two people who actually cared about her and saw her as more than this pinnacle of good, who saw her as the "real" Glinda.

She has to live with the knowledge that she has no one who really loves her, her acceptance is because of the fake persona she used and she has the guilt of knowing the part she played in everything.

She would use her growth and knowledge to watch over Oz and make sure nothing like what happened to Elphaba happens to anyone again. She got everything she wanted but she is alone because of that and that's the cost she has to pay.

This is why the ending is bittersweet, they do get what they wanted but it comes at a cost for all 3 of them.

thoughts?

So the red clouds and lightning behind Elphaba at the end of NGD. It was her magic reacting to the intense anger she was feeling, it reminded a bit of the green clouds and lightning at the end of the first movie when she embraced her power. Anyway i wonder if that was why they stirred up the angry mob to kill Elphaba.

The Ozians may have seen the red lightning and clouds as a warning that the "wicked witch" was gonna kill them all and they decided they needed to kill her before she killed them.

Thoughts?

Glinda used the Wizards hearts desire to guilt him into leaving Oz.

He says in sentimental man he always wanted to be a father and he then Glinda tells him he had a daughter and he orchestrated her death. That guilt hit him very hard and he realized how much damage he'd done. His hearts desire was to be a father and he could have had his chance and he was the reason she died. He wasn't much of a threat once he learned that and it gave Glinda leverage over him.

Thoughts?

Ok so I've analyzed this and rewatched the movies and analyzed it some more. This is my analysis of why Fiyero stayed with Glinda during the time jump between movies and during the first half of for good.

We saw Fiyero was very popular with the Ozians, Glinda had become so popular with Ozians because she was built up as Glinda the good. Fiyero was likely popular because he was her boyfriend. I'm sure MM and the Wizard took advantage of his popularity and that popularity helped him become captain of the Galeforce. They had Glinda the good and her "handsome swain" at the forefront, they were kind of using them as the face of the regime I think.

Staying with Glinda made him very popular, helped him become captain of the Galeforce and it also would have kept him close to the Wizard and MM where he could keep an eye of them.

It looked like MM made that relationship very public and anyone who didn't fall in line, who couldn't be controlled, who didn't just do what they were supposed to do were a proble. If Fiyero hadn't gone along with MM building them up as Oz's perfect, fairytale couple he would have been seen as a problem. He couldn't risk being a problem yet. If he had broken up with Glinda it would have humiliated Glinda there would have been consequences for doing that.

We see by his reaction he was very blindsided by that engagement, he had no idea. Glinda says it was arranged with the Wizard and MM was in on it as well. They were telling him to marry Glinda and they announced it publicly, the public ate it up.

We see during thank goodness Fiyero was getting very agitated when they start singing all those horrible things about Elphaba and he says to Glinda " people are so empty headed they'll believe anything." This shows us how much he hated being there and Glinda sensed his agitation as well which is why she hurried him away so they could talk in private.

We know Fiyero was using being captain to look for Elphaba he says " i became captain to search for her and I won't stop searching until I do." This is the first line of dialogue that tells us what his real motives are.

When he and Glinda are in private Fiyero makes it very clear he hates being in the system " I can't just stand there, grinning, pretending to go along with all of this."

He also makes it very clear he wants out and he tries to get Glinda to go with him " let's just go, let's just get out of here."

When Glinda refuses to leave Fiyero starts realizing the truth, Glinda couldn't resist what supporting the Wizard gave her, it had given her almost everything she wanted.

Fiyero also makes it clear he was looking for Elphaba, " she's out there and i have to find her because if someone else gets there first she...." This tells us again that he was looking for Elphaba and he was very worried for her.

Glinda responses by telling him that Elphaba didn't wanna be found, she made her choice, this is the same as Glinda telling Fiyero to stop looking for Elphaba. His facial expressions are very telling here including his jaw clench. This is the moment he realizes he can't trust Glinda because unlike him she actually supported the Wizard and she wasn't actually gonna use her position to help Elphaba or to turn on the Wizard.

He hesitated briefly then he agrees to the marriage. It was obvious he didn't wanna marry Glinda, he had even avoided her kiss earlier but Fiyero sees the engagement as trap and he also doesn't see a way out. If he had objected or refused to marry Glinda it would have been seen as defying the Wizard and that wouldn't have ended well for him. So he agrees to marry her because he doesn't see way out of it without putting himself in danger and if he did that he could have been locked up or worse and then he would have been replaced as captain of the Galeforce with someone who would actually be hunting Elphaba and would harm her if they had the opportunity. This is also why he couldn't just leave the regime, if he had he would have been replaced as captain of the Galeforce and it would have been alot harder, maybe even impossible to find Elphaba.

When the Galeforce chases Elphaba and Elphaba hides in the tree Fiyero knew she was there. He saw her hiding in the tree and he purposefully points his gun in the other direction. After a minute of pretending to look for her he orders the Galeforce away from Elphaba. This shows us the second reason he was in the system, he was using his position to protect Elphaba by keeping the Galeforce away from her. This also shows us why he had to be very careful who he trusted and why he couldn't trust Glinda at this time. He was working against the Wizard by protecting Elphaba and that would be treason if anyone knew so he felt he couldn't trust anyone, not even Glinda, because if anyone knew he probably would have been killed.

None of this is trying to make Fiyero blameless he was in the system and he did technically use his relationship with Glinda to help him keep his position in the system and using someone or leading someone on is never right. That said, these weren't normal circumstances and it's unfortunate Glinda got hurt but they were on opposite sides of a war and Fiyero was doing what he needed to do to keep Elphaba alive. Fiyero may not have done things exactly right with Glinda but he was in a dangerous situation and he was doing what he needed to do.

I also remember that Glinda has her share of blame, she didn't handle things right either.

First of all she actually supported the Wizard, she was using the system for herself, to get what she wanted, to make herself happy. Fiyero was using it for Elphaba and it was clear he hated it and he didn't support the Wizard.

Glinda also knew Fiyero didn't love her and he didn't wanna be there and knowing that, sensing that distance and hesitation from him she arranged the engagement with the Wizard as an attempt to force him because she wanted him. It was an attempt at getting what she wanted. I think she also knew there was something between him and Elphaba and she knew if he found Elphaba he would leave her and that's why she told him to stop looking for Elphaba. Glinda could have used her position to help Elphaba but she chose not to. Glinda was very wrong in her choices and how she handled things with Fiyero to and she was making the choices she did for selfish reasons, for herself.

Fiyero and Glinda were both using each other in a sense, he used that relationship to help him and by extension help Elphaba and she was using Fiyero to try and get what she wanted, to try and make herself happy.

When Elphaba came to the wedding it gave Fiyero the chance to get out, he could protect Elphaba by being with her, he didn't need to use the system to protect her anymore and he didn't have to marry Glinda. It was the opportunity he needed to turn on the Wizard and leave with Elphaba. It gave him the leverage he needed, it was just him, Elphaba and the Wizard after he got rid of the Galeforce, the Wizard had no backup and Morrible was elsewhere.

Fiyero knew he just couldn't do it anymore. You can see he didn't wanna hurt Glinda but he also knew he couldn't let Elphaba leave again without him and he knew he couldn't stay in the system. He also knew he may not get another chance.

I see it as Fiyero being a double agent, pretending to work for the Wizard while actually working with Elphaba, inside the Wizard's regime and he needed to keep his cover inside the system. He was using his relationship with Glinda as a cover inside the system and no that's not a very nice thing to do to someone but it was a life or death situation for Elphaba and he was doing what he needed to do to keep Elphaba alive.

Fiyero was justified in leaving her like he did. It may have seemed cold or even cruel but Glinda wasn't considerate of him or his feelings at all and he was just done with all of it, done with the system, done with her and fed up with all of it. They were trying to force him into a marriage and that would have trapped him in the system.

Glinda also didn't need more of an explanation than he gave her, she knew he didn't wanna be there, she knew he didn't marry her, she knew he was looking for Elphaba. Then he told her " I'm going with her". She already knew the truth she was just living in denial.

All of this is why i don't really blame Fiyero, he may not have been exactly right but I understand his motivations and why he did everything he did and that's why I don't blame him.

Normally I wouldn't support a character who used someone or who led someone on but in this case i am definitely a Fiyero fan. He was doing everything for the woman he loved and that is admireable and honestly i was glad Elphaba had someone who was protecting her, he was the only person who was actually doing something for her and that is why I don't blame him.

That conversation between Fiyero and Glinda is when we see the "real" Fiyero come out, that's when he makes it clear he hates the system, he doesn't wanna be there and we see from his reactions and body language he is not happy about the engagement or with Glinda when he realizes she actually supports the Wizard. When he reluctantly agrees to the marriage " if it'll make you happy of course I'll marry you" is when he goes back to masking with Glinda, that's him playing along so he goes back to using that performative facade again, it was him keeping his cover.

Also i wanted to say that i think it was done as more of MM's control and maniupulation. Glinda wanted to marry Fiyero since the morning after the Ozdust and this was MM giving her more of what she wanted to keep her under control. It was also probably an attempt to keep Fiyero in line it would have trapped him in the system and he would be easier to control if he was married to Glinda and he probably wouldn't have been able to get out if he had married her. It was attempt at control by MM and Glinda was happy to go along with it because she was getting what she wanted.

Anyway this is my analysis and I thought I'd share it.

Thoughts?

It took me a while to realize Glinda's wedding march is a slowed down version of popular. I think that is metaphorical to what she was thinking at the time. She aligned with Wizard and MM because it would make her more popular and that was her goal in life, to be as popular as she could be because being popular made her feel loved.

At this moment, walking down the aisle she her choice paid off, next to the Wizard she was probably the most popular person in Oz and she was marrying her fairytale prince, a move that could make her even more popular. In the moment she thinks her choice, her strategy by being who the world wanted her to be, being a people pleaser, being performatively good, choosing to align with Wizard has given her everything she wanted. That's why it's such a huge shock and so painful for her when it falls apart a few mins later.

thoughts?

Was Fiyero's horse Feldspar in on the plan? Glinda rode him to the castle. It was Fiyero's castle so he would know the way there but I was wondering how he knew Glinda could find Elphaba there. I wondered if Fiyero told him he told Elphaba to go there when he slipped off to write that not to Elphaba and that's how Feldspar knew she was hiding there because Fiyero told him he told Elphaba to go there. Anyway just something i thought about and wanted to share.

Thoughts?

Why Elphaba had to die for Glinda to become Glinda the good

I see Elphaba melting as her sacrificing herself for Oz.

MM and the Wizard had done so much damage with their lies Oz would never accept her and they would turn against anyone who didn't think Elphaba was the wicked witch. As long as Elphaba was alive and in Oz, Oz would never have peace, the Ozians would constantly live in fear of Elphaba. By dying to Oz there would finally be peace in Oz and that would allow Glinda to change Oz. Elphaba realized Glinda could do what she couldn't, change Oz directly, Elphaba couldn't do it herself because of all the hate and lies but Glinda could because she had the support of the people.

Also Elphaba had hit her breaking point with NGD, she stopped fighting and she had kidnapped Dorothy, there was an angry mob coming for her and the Wizard had sent Dorothy and her companions to kill Elphaba. By this point Elphaba would have either been killed or had to kill them to protect herself. If that happened she probably would have lost what was left of her sanity. Faking her death gave her the chance to finally be free and happy and finally live in peace after all the pain and trauma she suffered she deserved that.

Elphaba's sacrifice showed Glinda what being good really meant, Elphaba had sacrificed everything to fight the Wizard and now she willing to die ( from Glinda's perspective) for her cause, so Glinda could change Oz. Glinda saw that being good meant putting others first, it was making the hard choices to make things better, it was doing what was right even if it hurt. Glinda saw that she wasn't good, she thought she was but she realized what being good really meant from Elphaba. Elphaba sacrificed herself to help Oz, so Glinda could change Oz. Elphaba would die as the Wicked Witch so Glinda could be Glinda the good and she could let herself an actual good person and not one who was performatively good.

It's sad that Glinda and Elphaba had to part but Glinda taking power in Oz makes sense now that she popped her bubble. Glinda had the love and support of the people, she would learn from the past, learn from her mistakes and choices and make sure what happened to Elphaba never happened to anyone again. She would make sure Oz would never see a regime like the Wizards again.

It's also sad that Elphaba wouldn't get to see Glinda change Oz but Elphaba didn't fail, she succeeded through Glinda. She trusted Glinda to finish her fight and she trusted Glinda would change Oz.

She had to die as the wicked witch so Glinda could find her strength and become Glinda the good, her death would finally bring peace to Oz and allow Glinda to welcome the Animals and free Oz from the Wizard and MM's control which is what she'd been fighting for.

This is my analysis and wanted to share.

Thoughts?

why Glinda couldn't know Fiyero and Elphaba were alive

Glinda couldn't know Fiyero and Elphaba were alive for a couple of reasons.

First of all, it protected Fiyero and Elphaba and Glinda. As far as Oz knew Fiyero and Elphaba were both dead, if anyone found out they were alive someone could search for them. If any of the Ozians knew Elphaba wasn't dead they would probably be afraid the "Wicked witch" would return and kill them all. The Ozians would keep living in fear and some Ozians could try to hunt Fiyero and Elphaba and they could never live in peace.

Keeping it from Glinda might seem cruel but it was the only way they could live in peace and finally be free, they couldn't risk anyone finding out they were alive somewhere in the world.

It protected Glinda because if she knew they were alive and someone ever found out. I don't mean she would purposefully tell someone but it might come out sometime in the future or the information could be coerced out of her. If anyone knew she knew they were alive the Ozians would turn against her. We saw this when she tried to humanize Elphaba during NOMTW. Then she would lose her place in Oz at the very least, that would leave Oz without a leader and that could leave Oz open to another regime like the Wizard's regime all over again.

Also if Glinda knew they were alive and she probably be torn between Oz and trying to find them, she might search for them and she would never be at peace. It might be sad that Glinda believes they both died but it had finality to it and this way she could grieve them and focus solely on Oz.

Anyway, it's sad that Glinda couldn't know they were alive but it really was the best thing for all three of them, for their own protection no one could ever know.

Thoughts?