u/Remarkable_Note971

so yesterday i shared someone's perspective they shared with me about Elphaba and Fiyero but today I thought i would share my personal opinion about it. I look at this situation from Elphaba's perspective, I wrote this from Elphaba's perspective.

All Elphaba's life she was alone, she was bullied and mocked, her father hated her and her sister was ashamed of her. She never had any friends until Glinda. Then she falls in love with Fiyero who by society's standards was "better" than her and he was with Glinda, There's no way he felt the same attraction she felt, she's just kidding herself if she lets herself believe he felt what she did and it hurts to much to let even wish for it. He has no reason to choose her over Glinda, because Glinda is Glinda and Elphaba is well Elphaba. She had been taught her whole life she wasn't worthy of love so she never expected it from anyone.

Then we get to for good, she's been on her own for a year, she is very lonely, we see her looking at the travel brochure from when she and Glinda went to the emerald city. She doesn't wanna be alone, she misses Glinda and the life she had briefly, before she left.

She goes to where the Ozians are gathered, she wants to make Oz see the truth about the Wizard, if she does maybe Oz would finally accept her. She sees Glinda on the stage with Madam Morrible, being adored by Oz. Glinda is supporting the Wizard and MM, the people responsible for taking away the Animals rights, who were using the Animals for slave labor. She was supporting the people who vilified her and wanted her dead.

The Galeforce chases her, she hides in a tree. Fiyero, the man she loves, is leading them, he is hunting her, he supports the Wizard as well. What's worse is he calls her "that wicked witch", he believes the lies about her. She knows he shouldn't, he of all people should know she's not wicked, he saw how much she cared about the mistreatment of the Animals, but he does. This hurts her, to think that he believes she's wicked " Fiyero....even you." If you watch the deleted scene of the defying gravity reprise she says " when I said i was flying solo is this what I had in mind?..All friends and allies gone." She thought she had lost everyone. She knows Fiyero didn't love her, that's not a surprise, she never expected him to but it still hurt.

She decides to see Nessa, maybe there's a chance Nessa would help her, maybe Nessa loved her?

She visits Nessa only to find out that Nessa blames her, she has no concern for Elphaba who's being hunted and is living in hiding. Then Nessa almost kills Boq and Nessa blames it on Elphaba. This tells Elphaba that what she'd hoped for wasn't true, Nessa didn't love her. That's two people she loved who didn't love her back. She hears that Fiyero is marrying Glinda, this hurts, but it's no surprise, it's what she'd always expected, he chose Glinda.

There's one left, Glinda, maybe there was a chance Glinda still loved her, maybe she could salvage that friendship.

She goes to see Glinda who is getting ready for her wedding, Glinda is happy to see her and she wants to help Elphaba by getting her and the wizard to make peace. She humors Glinda and goes with her to talk to the Wizard. The Wizard and Glinda try to convince her to join them, join the system and Oz will accept you. Elphaba is very tempted, if she joined the Wizard she wouldn't be alone anymore and maybe she would be accepted. The best part, she could have her friend back, and even though Glinda and Fiyero were getting married she could have both people she loved back in her life. This was very tempting but she can't just agree, the Wizard has to honor her conditions. He agrees to her conditions and they have a deal. I think Elphaba saw Glinda participating in wonderful as Glinda expecting Elphaba to choose her, to sacrifice her morals and cause and choose her because it's what Glinda wanted. This causes Elphaba to believe Glinda doesn't love her either, no one loved her.

Then she finds the caged animals, the Wizard tries to convince her he's not a bad man and she knows she can't be a part of a system so corrupt no matter how alone she was, she knew the Wizard couldn't be trusted.

She contronts the Wizard and then Fiyero shows up with Galeforce, he's pointing a gun at her, the man she loved not only was hunting her and believes the lies but now he's threatening to harm her. Then she gets the shock of her of her life, he turns the gun on the Wizard. Now he's the only other person in Oz who is standing up for what's right, that's good. Glinda comes in and she is surprised and she doesn't like that he's locked the Wizard in the cage, further conformation she supports the Wizard. Then the most shocking thing happens Fiyero chooses her. Elphaba is shocked, what? why was he choosing her?.

She weighs her options here, let Fiyero leave with her and protect his life, he just committed treason and if she didn't let him leave with her it wouldn't end well for him but she knows this will hurt Glinda, she doesn't wanna hurt Glinda. However saving Fiyero's life takes priority and she lets him leave with her.

When they arrive at her treehouse Elphaba doesn't what to think, he's there with her but that didn't just happen did it? He couldn't have just chosen her, just walked away from everything, and made a fugitive of himself. No one ever chose her, no one ever sacrificed anything for her before. No there must be some catch, he must want something from me.

Fiyero removes her cape, does that mean he wants her? No it can't, he can't really want her, can he? She decides to tell him how she feels and see how he responds because it can't be real.

After she tells him how she feels she waits for Fiyero to respond and how does he respond? He tells her she's beautiful. That can't be right, he can't actually thinks she's beautiful, no one's ever told her that before, except Glinda and she didn't mean it when she said it either. No, he's just saying what she wants to hear.

Then Fiyero is trying to convince her that he is sincere. Wait, does he really think she's beautiful? He tells her he looks at her differently than the rest of the world does. He doesn't see her as a freak or as a horribly wicked monster, he just sees her as she is.

Fiyero managed to convince her that he loved her and when she realized that she was so happy, for the first time in her life someone loved her and not just someone, someone she loved actually loved her back. She was just so happy to be loved, to feel loved.

It's also significant that Fiyero wanted to have sex with her, her green skin was her biggest insecurity. It was the reason her father hated her, her sister was ashamed, she was mocked and bullied and why life was just so unfair to her. Now there's Fiyero who has never been bothered by her skin, he doesn't see her a freak, or her skin as a deformity or as a wicked monster like everyone else, he just sees her, Elphaba, the woman he loves.

When i look at this way, from Elphaba's perspective I can't blame her for this. From our perspective should she have been more considerate of Glinda's feelings? yes. Was this morally questionable? yes. Did Elphaba break the friend code? yes but I think it would be almost impossible to resist in Elphaba's position. I just think it's important that we understand how sad and lonely Elphaba was when she said yes to Fiyero, it may have been wrong but the situation is very nuanced IMO.

Thoughts?

so yesterday i shared someone's perspective they shared with me about Elphaba and Fiyero but today I thought i would share my personal opinion about it. I look at this situation from Elphaba's perspective, I wrote this from Elphaba's perspective.

All Elphaba's life she was alone, she was bullied and mocked, her father hated her and her sister was ashamed of her. She never had any friends until Glinda. Then she falls in love with Fiyero who by society's standards was "better" than her and he was with Glinda, There's no way he felt the same attraction she felt, she's just kidding herself if she lets herself believe he felt what she did and it hurts to much to let even wish for it. He has no reason to choose her over Glinda, because Glinda is Glinda and Elphaba is well Elphaba. She had been taught her whole life she wasn't worthy of love so she never expected it from anyone.

Then we get to for good, she's been on her own for a year, she is very lonely, we see her looking at the travel brochure from when she and Glinda went to the emerald city. She doesn't wanna be alone, she misses Glinda and the life she had briefly, before she left.

She goes to where the Ozians are gathered, she wants to make Oz see the truth about the Wizard, if she does maybe Oz would finally accept her. She sees Glinda on the stage with Madam Morrible, being adored by Oz. Glinda is supporting the Wizard and MM, the people responsible for taking away the Animals rights, who were using the Animals for slave labor. She was supporting the people who vilified her and wanted her dead.

The Galeforce chases her, she hides in a tree. Fiyero, the man she loves, is leading them, he is hunting her, he supports the Wizard as well. What's worse is he calls her "that wicked witch", he believes the lies about her. She knows he shouldn't, he of all people should know she's not wicked, he saw how much she cared about the mistreatment of the Animals, but he does. This hurts her, to think that he believes she's wicked " Fiyero....even you." If you watch the deleted scene of the defying gravity reprise she says " when I said i was flying solo is this what I had in mind?..All friends and allies gone." She thought she had lost everyone. She knows Fiyero didn't love her, that's not a surprise, she never expected him to but it still hurt.

She decides to see Nessa, maybe there's a chance Nessa would help her, maybe Nessa loved her?

She visits Nessa only to find out that Nessa blames her, she has no concern for Elphaba who's being hunted and is living in hiding. Then Nessa almost kills Boq and Nessa blames it on Elphaba. This tells Elphaba that what she'd hoped for wasn't true, Nessa didn't love her. That's two people she loved who didn't love her back. She hears that Fiyero is marrying Glinda, this hurts, but it's no surprise, it's what she'd always expected, he chose Glinda.

There's one left, Glinda, maybe there was a chance Glinda still loved her, maybe she could salvage that friendship.

She goes to see Glinda who is getting ready for her wedding, Glinda is happy to see her and she wants to help Elphaba by getting her and the wizard to make peace. She humors Glinda and goes with her to talk to the Wizard. The Wizard and Glinda try to convince her to join them, join the system and Oz will accept you. Elphaba is very tempted, if she joined the Wizard she wouldn't be alone anymore and maybe she would be accepted. The best part, she could have her friend back, and even though Glinda and Fiyero were getting married she could have both people she loved back in her life. This was very tempting but she can't just agree, the Wizard has to honor her conditions. He agrees to her conditions and they have a deal. I think Elphaba saw Glinda participating in wonderful as Glinda expecting Elphaba to choose her, to sacrifice her morals and cause and choose her because it's what Glinda wanted. This causes Elphaba to believe Glinda doesn't love her either, no one loved her.

Then she finds the caged animals, the Wizard tries to convince her he's not a bad man and she knows she can't be a part of a system so corrupt no matter how alone she was, she knew the Wizard couldn't be trusted.

She contronts the Wizard and then Fiyero shows up with Galeforce, he's pointing a gun at her, the man she loved not only was hunting her and believes the lies but now he's threatening to harm her. Then she gets the shock of her of her life, he turns the gun on the Wizard. Now he's the only other person in Oz who is standing up for what's right, that's good. Glinda comes in and she is surprised and she doesn't like that he's locked the Wizard in the cage, further conformation she supports the Wizard. Then the most shocking thing happens Fiyero chooses her. Elphaba is shocked, what? why was he choosing her?.

She weighs her options here, let Fiyero leave with her and protect his life, he just committed treason and if she didn't let him leave with her it wouldn't end well for him but she knows this will hurt Glinda, she doesn't wanna hurt Glinda. However saving Fiyero's life takes priority and she lets him leave with her.

When they arrive at her treehouse Elphaba doesn't what to think, he's there with her but that didn't just happen did it? He couldn't have just chosen her, just walked away from everything, and made a fugitive of himself. No one ever chose her, no one ever sacrificed anything for her before. No there must be some catch, he must want something from me.

Fiyero removes her cape, does that mean he wants her? No it can't, he can't really want her, can he? She decides to tell him how she feels and see how he responds because it can't be real.

After she tells him how she feels she waits for Fiyero to respond and how does he respond? He tells her she's beautiful. That can't be right, he can't actually thinks she's beautiful, no one's ever told her that before, except Glinda and she didn't mean it when she said it either. No, he's just saying what she wants to hear.

Then Fiyero is trying to convince her that he is sincere. Wait, does he really think she's beautiful? He tells her he looks at her differently than the rest of the world does. He doesn't see her as a freak or as a horribly wicked monster, he just sees her as she is.

Fiyero managed to convince her that he loved her and when she realized that she was so happy, for the first time in her life someone loved her and not just someone, someone she loved actually loved her back. She was just so happy to be loved, to feel loved.

It's also significant that Fiyero wanted to have sex with her, her green skin was her biggest insecurity. It was the reason her father hated her, her sister was ashamed, she was mocked and bullied and why life was just so unfair to her. Now there's Fiyero who has never been bothered by her skin, he doesn't see her a freak, or her skin as a deformity or as a wicked monster like everyone else, he just sees her, Elphaba, the woman he loves.

When i look at this way, from Elphaba's perspective I can't blame her for this. From our perspective should she have been more considerate of Glinda's feelings? yes. Was this morally questionable? yes. Did Elphaba break the friend code? yes but I think it would be almost impossible to resist in Elphaba's position. I just think it's important that we understand how sad and lonely Elphaba was when she said yes to Fiyero, it may have been wrong but the situation is very nuanced IMO.

Thoughts?

so yesterday i shared someone's perspective they shared with me about Elphaba and Fiyero but today I thought i would share my personal opinion about it. I look at this situation from Elphaba's perspective, I wrote this from Elphaba's perspective.

All Elphaba's life she was alone, she was bullied and mocked, her father hated her and her sister was ashamed of her. She never had any friends until Glinda. Then she falls in love with Fiyero who by society's standards was "better" than her and he was with Glinda, There's no way he felt the same attraction she felt, she's just kidding herself if she lets herself believe he felt what she did and it hurts to much to let even wish for it. He has no reason to choose her over Glinda, because Glinda is Glinda and Elphaba is well Elphaba. She had been taught her whole life she wasn't worthy of love so she never expected it from anyone.

Then we get to for good, she's been on her own for a year, she is very lonely, we see her looking at the travel brochure from when she and Glinda went to the emerald city. She doesn't wanna be alone, she misses Glinda and the life she had briefly, before she left.

She goes to where the Ozians are gathered, she wants to make Oz see the truth about the Wizard, if she does maybe Oz would finally accept her. She sees Glinda on the stage with Madam Morrible, being adored by Oz. Glinda is supporting the Wizard and MM, the people responsible for taking away the Animals rights, who were using the Animals for slave labor. She was supporting the people who vilified her and wanted her dead.

The Galeforce chases her, she hides in a tree. Fiyero, the man she loves, is leading them, he is hunting her, he supports the Wizard as well. What's worse is he calls her "that wicked witch", he believes the lies about her. She knows he shouldn't, he of all people should know she's not wicked, he saw how much she cared about the mistreatment of the Animals, but he does. This hurts her, to think that he believes she's wicked " Fiyero....even you." If you watch the deleted scene of the defying gravity reprise she says " when I said i was flying solo is this what I had in mind?..All friends and allies gone." She thought she had lost everyone. She knows Fiyero didn't love her, that's not a surprise, she never expected him to but it still hurt.

She decides to see Nessa, maybe there's a chance Nessa would help her, maybe Nessa loved her?

She visits Nessa only to find out that Nessa blames her, she has no concern for Elphaba who's being hunted and is living in hiding. Then Nessa almost kills Boq and Nessa blames it on Elphaba. This tells Elphaba that what she'd hoped for wasn't true, Nessa didn't love her. That's two people she loved who didn't love her back. She hears that Fiyero is marrying Glinda, this hurts, but it's no surprise, it's what she'd always expected, he chose Glinda.

There's one left, Glinda, maybe there was a chance Glinda still loved her, maybe she could salvage that friendship.

She goes to see Glinda who is getting ready for her wedding, Glinda is happy to see her and she wants to help Elphaba by getting her and the wizard to make peace. She humors Glinda and goes with her to talk to the Wizard. The Wizard and Glinda try to convince her to join them, join the system and Oz will accept you. Elphaba is very tempted, if she joined the Wizard she wouldn't be alone anymore and maybe she would be accepted. The best part, she could have her friend back, and even though Glinda and Fiyero were getting married she could have both people she loved back in her life. This was very tempting but she can't just agree, the Wizard has to honor her conditions. He agrees to her conditions and they have a deal. I think Elphaba saw Glinda participating in wonderful as Glinda expecting Elphaba to choose her, to sacrifice her morals and cause and choose her because it's what Glinda wanted. This causes Elphaba to believe Glinda doesn't love her either, no one loved her.

Then she finds the caged animals, the Wizard tries to convince her he's not a bad man and she knows she can't be a part of a system so corrupt no matter how alone she was, she knew the Wizard couldn't be trusted.

She contronts the Wizard and then Fiyero shows up with Galeforce, he's pointing a gun at her, the man she loved not only was hunting her and believes the lies but now he's threatening to harm her. Then she gets the shock of her of her life, he turns the gun on the Wizard. Now he's the only other person in Oz who is standing up for what's right, that's good. Glinda comes in and she is surprised and she doesn't like that he's locked the Wizard in the cage, further conformation she supports the Wizard. Then the most shocking thing happens Fiyero chooses her. Elphaba is shocked, what? why was he choosing her?.

She weighs her options here, let Fiyero leave with her and protect his life, he just committed treason and if she didn't let him leave with her it wouldn't end well for him but she knows this will hurt Glinda, she doesn't wanna hurt Glinda. However saving Fiyero's life takes priority and she lets him leave with her.

When they arrive at her treehouse Elphaba doesn't what to think, he's there with her but that didn't just happen did it? He couldn't have just chosen her, just walked away from everything, and made a fugitive of himself. No one ever chose her, no one ever sacrificed anything for her before. No there must be some catch, he must want something from me.

Fiyero removes her cape, does that mean he wants her? No it can't, he can't really want her, can he? She decides to tell him how she feels and see how he responds because it can't be real.

After she tells him how she feels she waits for Fiyero to respond and how does he respond? He tells her she's beautiful. That can't be right, he can't actually thinks she's beautiful, no one's ever told her that before, except Glinda and she didn't mean it when she said it either. No, he's just saying what she wants to hear.

Then Fiyero is trying to convince her that he is sincere. Wait, does he really think she's beautiful? He tells her he looks at her differently than the rest of the world does. He doesn't see her as a freak or as a horribly wicked monster, he just sees her as she is.

Fiyero managed to convince her that he loved her and when she realized that she was so happy, for the first time in her life someone loved her and not just someone, someone she loved actually loved her back. She was just so happy to be loved, to feel loved.

It's also significant that Fiyero wanted to have sex with her, her green skin was her biggest insecurity. It was the reason her father hated her, her sister was ashamed, she was mocked and bullied and why life was just so unfair to her. Now there's Fiyero who has never been bothered by her skin, he doesn't see her a freak, or her skin as a deformity or as a wicked monster like everyone else, he just sees her, Elphaba, the woman he loves.

When i look at this way, from Elphaba's perspective I can't blame her for this. From our perspective should she have been more considerate of Glinda's feelings? yes. Was this morally questionable? yes. Did Elphaba break the friend code? yes but I think it would be almost impossible to resist in Elphaba's position. I just think it's important that we understand how sad and lonely Elphaba was when she said yes to Fiyero, it may have been wrong but the situation is very nuanced IMO.

Thoughts?

I was talking to another Wicked fan and they point this out to me about Elphaba, it made a lot of sense to me and I wanted to share.

So i know alot of this fandom blames Elphaba for sleeping with Fiyero, they consider her a bad friend or it's considered a betrayal to Glinda for breaking the "friend code" but here's an alternate perspective, what if Elphaba didn't know she was breaking the friend code? Let me explain.

Elphaba wasn't like Glinda or Fiyero she didn't have "socialization", when she was around people she was mocked and she had to be defensive. Elphaba didn't really know anything about friendship or anything social, she only ever had one friend. She probably didn't even realize that your best friends ex is considered off limits. How would she know about the "girl code" or whatever when she only ever had one friend?

She fell for Fiyero while he was dating Glinda, yes that's questionable I guess but she didn't plan it, it just happened. She never intended for it to happen.

She kept her feelings for Fiyero to herself because he and Glinda were together and she didn't wanna come between them or hurt Glinda. She accepted they were together and she was being a good friend. She just didn't wanna hurt Glinda so she kept her feelings to herself. She wanted Glinda to be happy and she didn't wanna ruin her relationship with Fiyero

In for good she didn't even go see Fiyero, she went to see Glinda before the wedding to wish her well, it must have hurt when she found they were getting married but she was trying to be happy for Glinda. She didn't even see Fiyero, she didn't try to get him to leave with her or anything, she didn't tell Glinda not to marry him. She accepted that Fiyero chose Glinda and she was trying to be happy for Glinda. That's being a good friend not a bad one. With this in mind why would she suddenly betray Glinda or hurt Glinda when she kept her feelings to herself because she didn't wanna hurt her?

When Fiyero chose Elphaba at the wedding, he turned on the Wizard and commited treason. Once he did this, he made himself a fugitive and he was considered a traitor, The Wizard even says " these two traitors...". It wasn't just him choosing Elphaba but it was him officially chosing a side, the side he knew was right. He put a target on his back. If Elphaba hadn't let him leave with her he likely would have been killed or imprisoned. We all saw what happened later when he publicly defended Elphaba, so there's no reason to think that if he hadn't left he wouldn't have been executed. So Elphaba really didn't have a choice but to let him leave with her, it was either that or let him die IMO. So Elphaba didn't really have a choice. If any of us were Elphaba in that situation, you have a choice, the person you love just put his life in danger, you have to choose, reject him and not let him leave with you and there's a good chance he would be killed or let him leave with you and there's a decent chance it will save his life would any of us have chosen any differently? I doubt it. I don't see it as Elphaba choosing Fiyero over Glinda or betraying Glinda but rather Elphaba saving Fiyero but Glinda saw it as Elphaba choosing Fiyero over her.

Elphaba was apologetic to Glinda she started to say " no it wasn't like that....". I think Elphaba felt bad that he chose her and he was leaving with her, she knew Glinda was hurt and she was apologetic for it. I honestly don't think Elphaba realized she was betraying her friendship with Glinda by letting Fiyero leave with her, that Glinda saw it as Elphaba choosing Fiyero over her. She was saving him and i think she thought Glinda was upset because he was leaving her and yes that was part of it but she didn't see how she was betraying their friendship.

If Elphaba was apologetic for Fiyero choosing her and for Glinda being hurt why would she purposefully betray her?

Elphaba probably didn't realize that a best friends ex is considered off limits, he chose her over Glinda and he left Glinda which is the same as a breakup so technically he was single.

This is something i hadn't really thought about before until another fan pointed it out but it makes sense for Elphaba's character.

The timing was bad but that was really more on Fiyero than Elphaba, she went there to wish Glinda well and expose the Wizard, she didn't intend to stop the wedding. He turned on the Wizard and chose her then so she had to let him leave with her.

Anyway my point is that while Elphaba did break the friend code, I don't think she did it on purpose. From her perspective, Fiyero left Glinda, he was single, he chose her, he loved her and wanted her and she felt the same way about him. I don't think Elphaba would purposefully betray Glinda like that, she just didn't realize about the "rules" of friendship or however you wanna put it.

Thoughts?

I was talking to another Wicked fan and they point this out to me about Elphaba, it made a lot of sense to me and I wanted to share.

So i know alot of this fandom blames Elphaba for sleeping with Fiyero, they consider her a bad friend or it's considered a betrayal to Glinda for breaking the "friend code" but here's an alternate perspective, what if Elphaba didn't know she was breaking the friend code? Let me explain.

Elphaba wasn't like Glinda or Fiyero she didn't have "socialization", when she was around people she was mocked and she had to be defensive. Elphaba didn't really know anything about friendship or anything social, she only ever had one friend. She probably didn't even realize that your best friends ex is considered off limits. How would she know about the "girl code" or whatever when she only ever had one friend?

She fell for Fiyero while he was dating Glinda, yes that's questionable I guess but she didn't plan it, it just happened. She never intended for it to happen.

She kept her feelings for Fiyero to herself because he and Glinda were together and she didn't wanna come between them or hurt Glinda. She accepted they were together and she was being a good friend. She just didn't wanna hurt Glinda so she kept her feelings to herself. She wanted Glinda to be happy and she didn't wanna ruin her relationship with Fiyero

In for good she didn't even go see Fiyero, she went to see Glinda before the wedding to wish her well, it must have hurt when she found they were getting married but she was trying to be happy for Glinda. She didn't even see Fiyero, she didn't try to get him to leave with her or anything, she didn't tell Glinda not to marry him. She accepted that Fiyero chose Glinda and she was trying to be happy for Glinda. That's being a good friend not a bad one. With this in mind why would she suddenly betray Glinda or hurt Glinda when she kept her feelings to herself because she didn't wanna hurt her?

When Fiyero chose Elphaba at the wedding, he turned on the Wizard and commited treason. Once he did this, he made himself a fugitive and he was considered a traitor, The Wizard even says " these two traitors...". It wasn't just him choosing Elphaba but it was him officially chosing a side, the side he knew was right. He put a target on his back. If Elphaba hadn't let him leave with her he likely would have been killed or imprisoned. We all saw what happened later when he publicly defended Elphaba, so there's no reason to think that if he hadn't left he wouldn't have been executed. So Elphaba really didn't have a choice but to let him leave with her, it was either that or let him die IMO. So Elphaba didn't really have a choice. If any of us were Elphaba in that situation, you have a choice, the person you love just put his life in danger, you have to choose, reject him and not let him leave with you and there's a good chance he would be killed or let him leave with you and there's a decent chance it will save his life would any of us have chosen any differently? I doubt it. I don't see it as Elphaba choosing Fiyero over Glinda or betraying Glinda but rather Elphaba saving Fiyero but Glinda saw it as Elphaba choosing Fiyero over her.

Elphaba was apologetic to Glinda she started to say " no it wasn't like that....". I think Elphaba felt bad that he chose her and he was leaving with her, she knew Glinda was hurt and she was apologetic for it. I honestly don't think Elphaba realized she was betraying her friendship with Glinda by letting Fiyero leave with her, that Glinda saw it as Elphaba choosing Fiyero over her. She was saving him and i think she thought Glinda was upset because he was leaving her and yes that was part of it but she didn't see how she was betraying their friendship.

If Elphaba was apologetic for Fiyero choosing her and for Glinda being hurt why would she purposefully betray her?

Elphaba probably didn't realize that a best friends ex is considered off limits, he chose her over Glinda and he left Glinda which is the same as a breakup so technically he was single.

This is something i hadn't really thought about before until another fan pointed it out but it makes sense for Elphaba's character.

The timing was bad but that was really more on Fiyero than Elphaba, she went there to wish Glinda well and expose the Wizard, she didn't intend to stop the wedding. He turned on the Wizard and chose her then so she had to let him leave with her.

Anyway my point is that while Elphaba did break the friend code, I don't think she did it on purpose. From her perspective, Fiyero left Glinda, he was single, he chose her, he loved her and wanted her and she felt the same way about him. I don't think Elphaba would purposefully betray Glinda like that, she just didn't realize about the "rules" of friendship or however you wanna put it.

Thoughts?

my opinion on when Jamie beat Roger in season 4.

First of all i felt really bad for Roger, poor guy really went through horror and it was very unfair to him.

I don't really consider that Jamie's fault not entirely anyway, my opinion us that they all played a part in what happened to Roger.

I do think Jamie should have talked to Roger to find out who he was before beating him but he also had no reason not to believe Lizzy since she was Bree's traveling companion at the time. If Claire and Bree hadn't kept it secret from Jamie that Bonnet was the one who assaulted Bree Jamie wouldn't have beaten Roger. I didn't like how Bree just blamed them without acknowledging how she and Claire kept secrets from Jamie. The whole thing was horrible misunderstanding but Jamie didn't know he was beating up Roger, he thought he was beating his daughter's rapist. If they hadn't kept secrets from each other that situation never would have happened.

thoughts?

I'm probably in the minority with this one but I wanted to share this anyway, this is my analysis of as long as you're mine, I really liked it in the movie but that might be because i haven't seen the stage show. Please remember this is just my analysis, just my opinon.

As long as you're mine is one of my favorite songs and probably my favorite scene in either movie. It was romantic, tender and even though they kept it pg there was a level of steam.

First of all, Elphaba lived in a tree in the woods and she made it into a home, upon seeing this Fiyero fell more in love with Elphaba. You can see his face light up when he sees her treehouse and he was amazed at the home she made.

Also it makes more sense if we look at it from Elphaba's point of view, she didn't know what we knew, as far as she knew Fiyero chose Glinda and until Fiyero turned on the Wizard she thought he'd turned against her and was hunting her. She had accepted that she wouldn't have the happiness other people had and that he would never feel about her the way she felt about him, then he turns on the Wizard and chooses her. Elphaba didn't know what to think at first, she needed a minute to wrap her head around the fact that he just committed treason, made a fugitive of himself, put his life in danger, and chose her.

Elphaba invited him into her world, which was something she didn't do with anyone else, not even Glinda.

Fiyero removing her cape is significant, the cape represented her armor, her protection and by removing it he was telling her she didn't need her armor with him, she was safe with him. Also, the fact that Elphaba let Fiyero remove the cape was telling, it showed she trusted him.

They are standing in front of a mirror when Fiyero removes her cape, she leans into him, she wants him too but she can't quite believe he wants her to. The mirror is important because in the "eyes" of society they don't look right, he should never be with her and this plays into Elphaba's insecurities, the would would say they shouldn't be together but they were alone together for the first time since the lion cub rescue. This is why she moves away from him.

The start of her verse is " kiss me to fiercely, hold me too tight" is her telling him how she feels and what she wants, this is her telling him she wants him. The rest of it also explains why she is distant " I need help believing you're with me tonight...my wildest dreamings could not for see lying next to you with you wanting me." Elphaba didn't know what to think and she needed help believing that was really happening.

Also, as far as we know, Elphaba was inexperienced, there's no reason to believe she'd been with anyone before and this is also why she acted shy and nervous.

Fiyero is mesmerized by the home she's made and that's why he's looking around her house, he's holding a propaganda flyer that portrays her as harsh and hideous, Fiyero realizes that she believes this is how all of Oz sees her and he needs to reassure that he doesn't see her that way. This is why he says " you're beautiful", all her life Elphaba had been led to believe she wasn't attractive at all, the only other person to tell her she was beautiful was Glinda and this was a different situation and she didn't believe Glinda when she told her either. This is why Elphaba gets defensive again when she responds with " you don't have to lie to me." Fiyero realizes from her response that Elphaba doesn't believe him, she thinks he's just telling her what she wants to hear. This is why he gets on his knees in front of her, he wants to look her in the eye, so she knows he's sincere. He then tells her " it's not lying" " what is it then?" " it's looking at things another way." This might sound awful at first hearing it but what he is saying is he doesn't see her the way Oz does, where they see angry, he sees passionate, where they see stubborn, he sees determined , where they see emotional, he sees fierce, etc. He's saying the because he looks at her differently than society does he really does think she's beautiful. He'd always seen her as beautiful and he'd always "seen" her.

He's also saying it's not just about looks, he thinks she's a beautiful person, he thinks who she is as a person is beautiful to him.

Elphaba knows what he's telling her and this is when she starts to let her walls down.

Fiyero's verse is him telling how he feels about her, " you've got me seeing through different eyes", he's saying she changed the way he looked at the world. " somehow I've fallen under your spell" this is a play on words but he's saying he's fallen in love with her, he's telling her loves her. " Somehow I can't help feeling it's up that i fell" he's telling her he's glad he's fallen for her, despite the dangers, it's made his life better and he doesn't regret it's happened. This is when Elphaba knows it's real and she gets alot more confident.

This is when the scene gets more "active" if you watch she was leading him towards her bed, she was now convinced that he loved and wanted her and she was so happy. When he caught her by the waist she was laughing and smiling, her magic reacted to her happiness and that's why they levitated. Fiyero was briefly surprised by the levitation but he showed no fear or reservation about her power. She levitates both of them onto her bed, which is interesting given how shy and nervous she was at the start.

Elphaba's line " for the first time, i feel Wicked" is another play on words, Wicked had a double meaning and can mean really good so she's saying that she's never felt the way he's made her feel before but she likes it, she feels good. She drops her arms at the end as Fiyero starts to remove the cardigan, this is her surrender, where she gives into love and desire.

Also i wanted to say that i know some people were confused by the cardigan and black lingerie here's my interpretation, the cardigan was something she would normally sleep in, she came home, got undressed like she would to go to bed, it was her getting comfortable but also the cardigan could represent more of her insecurity, like she was trying to hide her body from him because she'd been mocked for her green skin so much.

The lingerie was simply her underwear, she was wearing under her clothes, she probably got it when she and Glinda went to the emerald city. Also the lingerie is the most skin she'd ever shown around anyone, this shows she did trust Fiyero and she was comfortable with him.

It may have seemed like their relationship progressed quickly but Fiyero spent a year searching for and protecting Elphaba, he spent a year longing for her and worrying about her. Elphaba was alone until Fiyero chose her, he gave up everything for her and he chose what he knew was right like she did. They already had feelings for each other long before this and they were both just overwhelmed by joy and love. Also, given that they were both fugitives and were wanted there was a good chance they might not have long left, there was a chance that one or both of them could be killed and they didn't wanna waste more time, they knew this could be the only chance they would have so they took it.

There are alot of layers and alot of symbolism in the scene.

i just wanted to share this because apparently the scene was pretty controversial so i wanted to share my analysis of it.

Thoughts?

I'm probably in the minority with this one but I wanted to share this anyway, this is my analysis of as long as you're mine, I really liked it in the movie but that might be because i haven't seen the stage show. Please remember this is just my analysis, just my opinon.

As long as you're mine is one of my favorite songs and probably my favorite scene in either movie. It was romantic, tender and even though they kept it pg there was a level of steam.

First of all, Elphaba lived in a tree in the woods and she made it into a home, upon seeing this Fiyero fell more in love with Elphaba. You can see his face light up when he sees her treehouse and he was amazed at the home she made.

Also it makes more sense if we look at it from Elphaba's point of view, she didn't know what we knew, as far as she knew Fiyero chose Glinda and until Fiyero turned on the Wizard she thought he'd turned against her and was hunting her. She had accepted that she wouldn't have the happiness other people had and that he would never feel about her the way she felt about him, then he turns on the Wizard and chooses her. Elphaba didn't know what to think at first, she needed a minute to wrap her head around the fact that he just committed treason, made a fugitive of himself, put his life in danger, and chose her.

Elphaba invited him into her world, which was something she didn't do with anyone else, not even Glinda.

Fiyero removing her cape is significant, the cape represented her armor, her protection and by removing it he was telling her she didn't need her armor with him, she was safe with him. Also, the fact that Elphaba let Fiyero remove the cape was telling, it showed she trusted him.

They are standing in front of a mirror when Fiyero removes her cape, she leans into him, she wants him too but she can't quite believe he wants her to. The mirror is important because in the "eyes" of society they don't look right, he should never be with her and this plays into Elphaba's insecurities, the would would say they shouldn't be together but they were alone together for the first time since the lion cub rescue. This is why she moves away from him.

The start of her verse is " kiss me to fiercely, hold me too tight" is her telling him how she feels and what she wants, this is her telling him she wants him. The rest of it also explains why she is distant " I need help believing you're with me tonight...my wildest dreamings could not for see lying next to you with you wanting me." Elphaba didn't know what to think and she needed help believing that was really happening.

Also, as far as we know, Elphaba was inexperienced, there's no reason to believe she'd been with anyone before and this is also why she acted shy and nervous.

Fiyero is mesmerized by the home she's made and that's why he's looking around her house, he's holding a propaganda flyer that portrays her as harsh and hideous, Fiyero realizes that she believes this is how all of Oz sees her and he needs to reassure that he doesn't see her that way. This is why he says " you're beautiful", all her life Elphaba had been led to believe she wasn't attractive at all, the only other person to tell her she was beautiful was Glinda and this was a different situation and she didn't believe Glinda when she told her either. This is why Elphaba gets defensive again when she responds with " you don't have to lie to me." Fiyero realizes from her response that Elphaba doesn't believe him, she thinks he's just telling her what she wants to hear. This is why he gets on his knees in front of her, he wants to look her in the eye, so she knows he's sincere. He then tells her " it's not lying" " what is it then?" " it's looking at things another way." This might sound awful at first hearing it but what he is saying is he doesn't see her the way Oz does, where they see angry, he sees passionate, where they see stubborn, he sees determined , where they see emotional, he sees fierce, etc. He's saying the because he looks at her differently than society does he really does think she's beautiful. He'd always seen her as beautiful and he'd always "seen" her.

He's also saying it's not just about looks, he thinks she's a beautiful person, he thinks who she is as a person is beautiful to him.

Elphaba knows what he's telling her and this is when she starts to let her walls down.

Fiyero's verse is him telling how he feels about her, " you've got me seeing through different eyes", he's saying she changed the way he looked at the world. " somehow I've fallen under your spell" this is a play on words but he's saying he's fallen in love with her, he's telling her loves her. " Somehow I can't help feeling it's up that i fell" he's telling her he's glad he's fallen for her, despite the dangers, it's made his life better and he doesn't regret it's happened. This is when Elphaba knows it's real and she gets alot more confident.

This is when the scene gets more "active" if you watch she was leading him towards her bed, she was now convinced that he loved and wanted her and she was so happy. When he caught her by the waist she was laughing and smiling, her magic reacted to her happiness and that's why they levitated. Fiyero was briefly surprised by the levitation but he showed no fear or reservation about her power. She levitates both of them onto her bed, which is interesting given how shy and nervous she was at the start.

Elphaba's line " for the first time, i feel Wicked" is another play on words, Wicked had a double meaning and can mean really good so she's saying that she's never felt the way he's made her feel before but she likes it, she feels good. She drops her arms at the end as Fiyero starts to remove the cardigan, this is her surrender, where she gives into love and desire.

Also i wanted to say that i know some people were confused by the cardigan and black lingerie here's my interpretation, the cardigan was something she would normally sleep in, she came home, got undressed like she would to go to bed, it was her getting comfortable but also the cardigan could represent more of her insecurity, like she was trying to hide her body from him because she'd been mocked for her green skin so much.

The lingerie was simply her underwear, she was wearing under her clothes, she probably got it when she and Glinda went to the emerald city. Also the lingerie is the most skin she'd ever shown around anyone, this shows she did trust Fiyero and she was comfortable with him.

It may have seemed like their relationship progressed quickly but Fiyero spent a year searching for and protecting Elphaba, he spent a year longing for her and worrying about her. Elphaba was alone until Fiyero chose her, he gave up everything for her and he chose what he knew was right like she did. They already had feelings for each other long before this and they were both just overwhelmed by joy and love. Also, given that they were both fugitives and were wanted there was a good chance they might not have long left, there was a chance that one or both of them could be killed and they didn't wanna waste more time, they knew this could be the only chance they would have so they took it.

There are alot of layers and alot of symbolism in the scene.

i just wanted to share this because apparently the scene was pretty controversial so i wanted to share my analysis of it.

Thoughts?

I think the most haunting thing about Bree's assault is that everyone in the tavern heard it happening and no one would help her. That made it really haunting IMO, they all just sat there listening to it and nobody did anything. I'm sure they were probably scared of Bonnet but still it really made an impact IMO.

Warning this is a post regarding the Faith lived storyline...If you don't want to be involved in the discussion please ignore the post.

so when i rewatched season 2 i realized some things i didn't before.

First of all there was more to MR than

The king guards were patrolling the city, MR had claire go into a back room to be more discreet, he mentions something about not wanting to arouse suspicion.

Before Claire's miscarriage she warns Master Raymond that the king was preparing for multiple executions and tells him he needs to leave Paris. MR likely went into hiding after Claire's warning.

He shows up again to heal Claire and then he disappears as quickly as he appeared, likely going back into hiding. We don't when he revived Faith just that he did it sometime after Claire holds her and before the star chamber.

Now the point of this is everyone knew the baby died including the servants and Master Raymond was wanted by the king. It would likely have been dangerous to show up at Claire's house to tell her about Faith. Plus if she returned home with a formerly dead baby it would have confirmed suspicions about MR.

Also there were rumors going around about Claire being a witch, if she came home with a newly revived everyone would have thought she was a witch as well.

Claire doesn't see Master Raymond again until the star chamber where his put on trial. He didn't have an opportunity to tell her and with the king there it would be very dangerous if he had tried to tell her.

After the trial he was told to leave Paris, he likely time traveled away.

I don't think the intention was never to keep Faith from Claire and Jamie, MR tells the woman in the lace shop " if I don't return find Lady Broc turrac ( forgive the spelling). This makes me think he was in hiding and maybe knew he would be arrested because he knew there was a chance he wouldn't return.

Jane says the woman in the lace shop waited but MR never returned, we don't know how long but when she went to Jared's house Jamie and Claire had gone back to Scotland. I'm sure Jared likely knew how to contact Jamie and Claire however they were at lollybrock for a time, and then they were traveling with the army, Claire went through the stones and Jamie was in hiding and then in prison. They would have been very hard to contact while they were traveling with the army, probably no one knew where they were or how to contact them and then of course after Culloden it would have been impossible to get in contact with them.

Obviously there are holes in the storyline and it definitely could have benefitted from more answers but this helped clear up the question " why didn't MR tell her" and " why didn't they contact them after they left Paris", at least for me.

As for why the showrunners would do this? My opinion- it was supposed to be something good. Yes Faith still died but Jamie and Claire know she lived, she had a life, she had a family. The girls ending up in the brothel was horrible but it's outlander, horribke things happen to characters. She still met a tragic fate but they have a piece of her through Fanny, a piece they never thought they would have. It helped heal some of the grief they carried with them over loosing Faith. Like Claire said " it feels like a part of my heart has been healed." It was meant to give Jamie and Claire another granddaughter and not just a granddaughter, a part of the daughter they lost.

Also Jamie and Claire never got to raise a child together and Jamie never got to raise any of his children, the closest would be Fergus and he was in prison for several years so he didn't really get to raise him either. Now they have Fanny who they can raise together, and who is their granddaughter.

This is not to say i think the Faith lived storyline is great or that it shouldn't have been explained more but this is just something i realized when i rewatched season 2 and i wanted to share.

Imo Fiyero leaving Glinda was probably the best thing he could've done for all three of the characters in the love triangle.

Fiyero leaving Glinda was sad and it hurt her but if he had stayed and married her it wouldn't have been fair for her or to himself. She would have been married to a man who didn't love her, and Fiyero would have been married to a woman he didn't love and to a woman who was supporting the people who vilified the woman he really loved.

Fiyero wouldn't have been happy if he had married her and to be honest I'm not sure Glinda would have been happy either, sooner or later she would have realized the marriage was a mistake. They would have been trapped at that point.

Also Elphaba would have been alone and it wouldn't have been fair to Elphaba if Fiyero had married either because he wouldn't have been honest about his feelings for her.

To sum up my opinion is that Fiyero leaving Glinda was the right thing to do, it was sad and it hurt Glinda and the timing was bad but it was when he could get out and when he finally found Elphaba or rather when she found him and he took that chance, he probably wouldn't have gotten another one.

This way Fiyero was able to be with the woman he truly loved, Elphaba wasn't alone anymore and Glinda wouldn't be married to someone who didn't love her. Honestly, it was best that Fiyero and Elphaba were finally together IMO, it was pretty obvious they belonged together.

Thoughts?

Imo Fiyero leaving Glinda was probably the best thing he could've done for all three of the characters in the love triangle.

Fiyero leaving Glinda was sad and it hurt her but if he had stayed and married her it wouldn't have been fair for her or to himself. She would have been married to a man who didn't love her, and Fiyero would have been married to a woman he didn't love and to a woman who was supporting the people who vilified the woman he really loved.

Fiyero wouldn't have been happy if he had married her and to be honest I'm not sure Glinda would have been happy either, sooner or later she would have realized the marriage was a mistake. They would have been trapped at that point.

Also Elphaba would have been alone and it wouldn't have been fair to Elphaba if Fiyero had married either because he wouldn't have been honest about his feelings for her.

To sum up my opinion is that Fiyero leaving Glinda was the right thing to do, it was sad and it hurt Glinda and the timing was bad but it was when he could get out and when he finally found Elphaba or rather when she found him and he took that chance, he probably wouldn't have gotten another one.

This way Fiyero was able to be with the woman he truly loved, Elphaba wasn't alone anymore and Glinda wouldn't be married to someone who didn't love her. Honestly, it was best that Fiyero and Elphaba were finally together IMO, it was pretty obvious they belonged together.

Thoughts?

After thinking about it more I think Glinda knew deep down that Fiyero didn't love her and that he loved Elphaba, or at least had doubts, here's why.

In the deleted scene from the first movie, Elphaba's promise, Glinda seems to be somewhat suspicious about her waking up and seeing Fiyero and Elphaba gone during the lion cub rescue. Elphaba says " we just rescued the lion cub that's all." Glinda replies " right..." she sounds like she doesn't really believe that all they did was rescue the lion cub. This could be the start of her doubts.

Later at the train station scene, Glinda sees Fiyero paying attention to Elphaba and not her, her eyes dart back and forth between Fiyero and Elphaba, this shows she notices the tension between Fiyeraba. This is why she changes her name, she was trying to get Fiyero's attention back on her. Also, it looks like she might have seen Fiyero give Elphaba the poppy flower.

She also mentioned to Elphaba that Fiyero was acting different, but she didn't know why she just knew she was distant and that we was moody, not the carefree prince he was when he first arrived at Shiz.

In for good, Glinda i singing thank goodness/couldn't be happier she is questioning her supposed happiness, she has everything she thought she wanted but it didn't feel right. This was probably because her best friend was gone but it was also probably because she could sense that Fiyero was distant, that he didn't actually wanna be with her.

After the engagement was announced, she asks Fiyero if it would make him happy to marry her, her asking him if it would make him happy to marry her shows she had doubts, she suspected he wasn't happy with her.

This is probably why she forced the engagement, she wanted to marry him and that was a way of forcing him to stay with her.

She saw how Fiyero looked at Elphaba at the wedding and that's when she knew her doubts were right, Fiyero loved Elphaba, and that's why she let him go and didn't try to get him back, because she knew he loved Elphaba and belonged with her.

The I'm not that girl reprise was her finally admitting the truth, that she wasn't the woman Fiyero loved. That's when she realized that she was alone, for a short while she thought she would have everything she wanted, her life inside the system, her best friend back, her fairytale prince and then she didn't have everything she wanted and her world fell apart around her as she realized in that moment that she was, in fact, alone. While painful for her and sad to watch, it was big wake up call for Glinda and one of the big steps towards her popping her bubble.

Thoughts?

After thinking about it more I think Glinda knew deep down that Fiyero didn't love her and that he loved Elphaba, or at least had doubts, here's why.

In the deleted scene from the first movie, Elphaba's promise, Glinda seems to be somewhat suspicious about her waking up and seeing Fiyero and Elphaba gone during the lion cub rescue. Elphaba says " we just rescued the lion cub that's all." Glinda replies " right..." she sounds like she doesn't really believe that all they did was rescue the lion cub. This could be the start of her doubts.

Later at the train station scene, Glinda sees Fiyero paying attention to Elphaba and not her, her eyes dart back and forth between Fiyero and Elphaba, this shows she notices the tension between Fiyeraba. This is why she changes her name, she was trying to get Fiyero's attention back on her. Also, it looks like she might have seen Fiyero give Elphaba the poppy flower.

She also mentioned to Elphaba that Fiyero was acting different, but she didn't know why she just knew she was distant and that we was moody, not the carefree prince he was when he first arrived at Shiz.

In for good, Glinda i singing thank goodness/couldn't be happier she is questioning her supposed happiness, she has everything she thought she wanted but it didn't feel right. This was probably because her best friend was gone but it was also probably because she could sense that Fiyero was distant, that he didn't actually wanna be with her.

After the engagement was announced, she asks Fiyero if it would make him happy to marry her, her asking him if it would make him happy to marry her shows she had doubts, she suspected he wasn't happy with her.

This is probably why she forced the engagement, she wanted to marry him and that was a way of forcing him to stay with her.

She saw how Fiyero looked at Elphaba at the wedding and that's when she knew her doubts were right, Fiyero loved Elphaba, and that's why she let him go and didn't try to get him back, because she knew he loved Elphaba and belonged with her.

The I'm not that girl reprise was her finally admitting the truth, that she wasn't the woman Fiyero loved. That's when she realized that she was alone, for a short while she thought she would have everything she wanted, her life inside the system, her best friend back, her fairytale prince and then she didn't have everything she wanted and her world fell apart around her as she realized in that moment that she was, in fact, alone. While painful for her and sad to watch, it was big wake up call for Glinda and one of the big steps towards her popping her bubble.

Thoughts?

My opinions on first wife episode. This episode always bothers me lol and this is controversial topic but here it goes.

Jamie definitely should have told Claire about the marriage to Laoghaire but i also understand why he was afraid to tell her.

He did start to tell her at the brothel but Claire stopped him, I think she thought he was gonna tell her something she wasn't gonna like. Also he started to tell her at Lollybrock but Jenny sent for Laoghaire and the whole thing blew up.

Before y'all come after me I don't think Jamie is perfect but the situation isn't black and white for me.

The issue isn't that he remarried, I get that, Claire had been gone for years, the issue is who he married but he was fond of her daughters and I guess in a weird way Laoghaire made sense. He wanted to be a husband and a father again but the marriage just didn't work.

I understand Claire being hurt and angry but what i didn't like was how Claire jumped to the conclusion that Jamie lied to her, that he loved Laoghaire when he never did. Marriages back then weren't based on love usually and neither was this one.

She was married to Frank for 20 years and while it wasn't a happy marriage she was still with him. They stopped having sex but she did sleep with him.

I also didn't like how Claire was just gonna leave without even hearing Jamie out or letting him explain, that was unfair IMO.

They way i see it they both handled it wrong and I'm always glad when i get past that episode on rewatches. Just sharing my opinions.

I know some fans have strong opinions on this subject and that's fine. I didn't like that he married Laoghaire either but It's a complex situation IMO

My analysis of why Fiyero stayed with Glinda during the year time jump between movies-

Fiyero was unable to find Elphaba when he left Shiz, we saw him ride away from Shiz at the end of the first movie- so he was inside the system to look for and protect her from the inside.

" I became captain to search for her and I won't stop searching until i do." He thought becoming captain of the wizard's special task force that was tasked with hunting the wicked witch was the best way to find her without arousing suspicion and it probably was.

He stayed with Glinda because she was so popular that being her boyfriend kept him close to the Wizard and Morrible, and it gave him access and privileges he probably wouldn't have or would have been alot for him to have otherwise. Yes, that meant he was using Glinda, but i don't think he was intentionally using her, he was using the system and she was a big part of it.

Fiyero was focused on Elphaba, on keeping her alive. It was obvious he was fed up with all of it and then they sprung the engagement on him which took him by surprise. He tried to get Glinda to leave with him, I think he may have been trying to protect her because she was so blinded she couldn't see the big picture, she couldn't see how deep in the system she was but he could.

I think he thought she was working inside the system like he was, working her way up so she could defeat the Wizard or help Elphaba but he realized that she wouldn't leave or do anything because she couldn't resist that life, he was horrified when he realized that. He realized she wasn't working inside the system but using the system to benefit her, not to actually make things better.

" She's out there and I have to find her because if someone else gets there first she....." this told us he was very worried about Elphaba and it confirmed that he was searching for her. He told Glinda that he was looking for Elphaba and she basically tells him to stop looking, " I'm worried about her too and miss her can't you see she doesn't wanna be found...you have to accept that, she made her choice." This caused Fiyero not to trust Glinda, he realized that she wasn't gonna help Elphaba and because of that he felt he couldn't trust her so he goes back to playing along even with Glinda and that's when he agrees to marry her.

He couldn't have anyone knowing what he was doing, that he was protecting Elphaba from the inside so he realizes he needs to keep the mask with Glinda and he decides to play along.

This is when he agrees to marry her, I don't think he saw a way out of the engagement and he probably couldn't have gotten out of marrying Glinda since it was arranged by the Wizard, Morrible and Glinda, if he had objected to it would have made him look suspicious. Anyone who didn't do what the Wizard wanted was a problem and he couldn't risk being a problem until he found Elphaba, so he agrees to marry Glinda even though he didn't really want to. He thought if he didn't marry Glinda it would draw attention to him and it would could make him look like a traitor.

Fiyero could have left himself but if he had he would have been replaced as captain of the galeforce with someone who would actually be hunting Elphaba, who would harm her if given the opportunity. He also would have been seen as a traitor if he had left and then he would be hunted as well and that would make it harder for him to look for Elphaba.

He really was trapped IMO if he stayed and married Glinda he would be trapped inside the system and in a loveless marriage but if he left he would be replaced as captain of the guard and it would put Elphaba in more danger so he decides to stay inside the system even if it means marrying Glinda and being trapped inside the corrupt system.

Yes, he was using Glinda and he wasn't honest with her and that is morally questionable but he was doing what he felt he needed to do to keep Elphaba alive and I absolutely understood why he did it.

For Glinda's side of the relationship, i do think she may have had feelings for Fiyero but she was using him as well. Whatever feelings she had for him weren't stronger than her own selfishness and she was focusing on what she wanted. She saw him as an asset, it was about social status for her, she wanted to marry him because he was a prince and she saw him as a way to be more popular. She may have loved him some but she loved herself alot more. Neither one of them were honest with each other and they were both using each other.

Thoughts?

My analysis of why Fiyero stayed with Glinda during the year time jump between movies-

Fiyero was unable to find Elphaba when he left Shiz, we saw him ride away from Shiz at the end of the first movie- so he was inside the system to look for and protect her from the inside.

" I became captain to search for her and I won't stop searching until i do." He thought becoming captain of the wizard's special task force that was tasked with hunting the wicked witch was the best way to find her without arousing suspicion and it probably was.

He stayed with Glinda because she was so popular that being her boyfriend kept him close to the Wizard and Morrible, and it gave him access and privileges he probably wouldn't have or would have been alot for him to have otherwise. Yes, that meant he was using Glinda, but i don't think he was intentionally using her, he was using the system and she was a big part of it.

Fiyero was focused on Elphaba, on keeping her alive. It was obvious he was fed up with all of it and then they sprung the engagement on him which took him by surprise. He tried to get Glinda to leave with him, I think he may have been trying to protect her because she was so blinded she couldn't see the big picture, she couldn't see how deep in the system she was but he could.

I think he thought she was working inside the system like he was, working her way up so she could defeat the Wizard or help Elphaba but he realized that she wouldn't leave or do anything because she couldn't resist that life, he was horrified when he realized that. He realized she wasn't working inside the system but using the system to benefit her, not to actually make things better.

" She's out there and I have to find her because if someone else gets there first she....." this told us he was very worried about Elphaba and it confirmed that he was searching for her. He told Glinda that he was looking for Elphaba and she basically tells him to stop looking, " I'm worried about her too and miss her can't you see she doesn't wanna be found...you have to accept that, she made her choice." This caused Fiyero not to trust Glinda, he realized that she wasn't gonna help Elphaba and because of that he felt he couldn't trust her so he goes back to playing along even with Glinda and that's when he agrees to marry her.

He couldn't have anyone knowing what he was doing, that he was protecting Elphaba from the inside so he realizes he needs to keep the mask with Glinda and he decides to play along.

This is when he agrees to marry her, I don't think he saw a way out of the engagement and he probably couldn't have gotten out of marrying Glinda since it was arranged by the Wizard, Morrible and Glinda, if he had objected to it would have made him look suspicious. Anyone who didn't do what the Wizard wanted was a problem and he couldn't risk being a problem until he found Elphaba, so he agrees to marry Glinda even though he didn't really want to. He thought if he didn't marry Glinda it would draw attention to him and it would could make him look like a traitor.

Fiyero could have left himself but if he had he would have been replaced as captain of the galeforce with someone who would actually be hunting Elphaba, who would harm her if given the opportunity. He also would have been seen as a traitor if he had left and then he would be hunted as well and that would make it harder for him to look for Elphaba.

He really was trapped IMO if he stayed and married Glinda he would be trapped inside the system and in a loveless marriage but if he left he would be replaced as captain of the guard and it would put Elphaba in more danger so he decides to stay inside the system even if it means marrying Glinda and being trapped inside the corrupt system.

Yes, he was using Glinda and he wasn't honest with her and that is morally questionable but he was doing what he felt he needed to do to keep Elphaba alive and I absolutely understood why he did it. I'm not saying it was right but I understood him.

For Glinda's side of the relationship, i do think she may have had feelings for Fiyero but she was using him as well. Whatever feelings she had for him weren't stronger than her own selfishness and she was focusing on what she wanted. She saw him as an asset, it was about social status for her, she wanted to marry him because he was a prince and she saw him as a way to be more popular. She may have loved him some but she loved herself alot more. Neither one of them were honest with each other and they were both using each other.

Thoughts?

Did anyone else notice Claire just knew how Geillis was killed before she killed her? It looked like she could just sense it and that it gave her chills. Maybe it was an early nod to Claire having powers? It was interesting how she knew how Geillies died by just holding the bones.

Apologies if I mispelled her name

I do not like how Geneva went about forcing Jamie into her bed but i can understand it. She blackmailed him into it which makes it very wrong but i can understand her wanting to control who her first time was with and I can certainly understand why she chose Jamie especially when she was being forced into that marriage with a man much older than her. I think Jamie may have understood her as well and that's he was kind to her and made it memorable. He was probably alot kinder to her than most men would have been in that situation. Thoughts?

controversial topic- was Elphaba right to leave at the end of the first movie? I've seen different opinions on this.

My person opinion is yes she was. I feel like if she had stayed they would tried to use her that's why they wanted her to join them, so they could use her power. Elphaba's morals were too strong and she was to passionate to work inside the system, much as i love her she was to much of a hot head to stay in the system for long. Honestly i think she was right not to join the corrupt system.

Glinda's way worked eventually after she popped her bubble but I think Elphaba's way would have worked if she had been able to get support but because she was hated she couldn't get anyone to join her cause, even the animals wouldn't. Also if she had been trained and had control over her magic she could have defeated the Wizard and Morrible but she was up against so much hate and prejiduze that she couldn't get any support like Glinda could. Anyway by leaving and taking the grimmerie with her Elphaba prevented them from using her and from trying to use the Grimmerie to do more horrible spells. What are y'alls thoughts?