u/Round_Progress4635

Our civilization runs on layers of capabilities.

Information infrastrucutre, our collective memories, how we store, distribute and retrieve information. Books, Databases, LLMs.

Market infrastructure, how we record and verifiy our promises to one another.

Governments and institutions needs these to function.

Communications, Logistics and Energy networks, make up our industry.

When the coms, logistics and energy have convergent tech disruptions you get an industrial revolution. Colleta Perez is a good ref.

When information and market infra have convergent tech disruptions you get a reformation. We are in both right now. The last reformation happened in 1450 with printing press and double entry accounting.

Basically, there is a synergy between the information infra and market infra. The info spreads the knowledge to help people use the new market infra, this scales our ability to cooperate by driving the cost of organizations down significantly. This is cause Coases law. Firms exists because it lowers the cost of cooperation.

LLMs and crypto mixing this inverts this. The cost becomes cheaper to coordinate outside the firm AND nation state.

This is a natural transition.

Unfortunatley, the last reformation was pretty violent. About 130 years of chaos.

This time, I'm worried that this deflationary pressure is going to hit advanced weapons systems with the gini coefficient really high.

THis is the danger. Cheap powerful weapons.

What do you think.

I'm a professional with 20,000+ hours of domain expertise, and I recently ran a structured analysis of 600 comment branches across 30 top posts in r/antiai. I want to share what I found — because I think it's genuinely useful for bridging the divide.

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The Dissonance Paradox

The audit flagged something striking: that community simultaneously holds two beliefs —

• AI is displacing human workers at scale
• AI produces garbage-quality "slop" output

These are logically contradictory. If AI truly replaced human judgment, there would be no slop crisis. The prevalence of slop is actually evidence that replacement hasn't succeeded. They're right about both observations — but they can't both be fully true at the same time, and almost nobody over there has connected those dots.

This isn't a monolith either. About 35% of users showed genuine mixed or nuanced views. The economic anxiety underneath the quality critique is real and legitimate — even if the conclusions drawn from it aren't always accurate.

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Where the critics have a point

The copyright issue is real harm. People's creative work was ingested without consent, those companies profited, and artists saw their rates drop. That's not abstract — that's a legitimate grievance, and those people deserve to be heard and compensated.

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What 20,000+ hours teaches you about these tools

From the professional side: these systems are useless without a skilled operator. The more expertise you bring, the more clearly you can see exactly where and how AI falls down. It requires human judgment to catch errors, provide context, and produce anything worth keeping. It is a tool. A powerful one — but a tool.

The displacement narrative is real as anxiety. As a prediction, it is overblown.

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To anyone worried about their future

Stay the course. Keep learning. Whether it's drawing, painting, writing, engineering — master something because you find it interesting and it pushes your abilities. A machine cannot take that journey away from you. No matter how the technology develops, the path of genuine skill-building remains yours. The ability to get deeply good at something is irreducibly human.

Big change is coming. Our civilization is going to transform in significant ways. But we're going to have to work through this together — and that starts with understanding where the other side is actually coming from.

I hope this data is useful to the conversation.

The way I made this was have ai read reddit, filter posts based on criteria, rank, and tree reduce, then I used speech to text to respond, and post.

Background so you know where I'm coming from: BFA graduate, worked professionally as an artist, now I build AI agents. I fund my creative projects using the full toolkit — hand drawing, Gen-AI, 3D/CGI, traditional compositing. I'm not a tech bro who discovered Midjourney last year, and I'm not a purist who refuses to touch the stuff. I'm somewhere in the middle, which apparently makes me a unicorn on this sub.

Edit: Claudes glazing is horrible. Uhg. So gross. I dont think im a rare creature btw. haha.

Before posting I ran a quick sentiment audit across ~20 posts, 165 comment branches, roughly 1,652 comments on r/aiwars. Here's what the data actually looks like:

Sentiment	Share
Mixed	46%
Negative	29%
Positive	15%
Neutral	10%

Top themes breaking down those sentiments:

1. AI Art & Copyright — mostly negative. Artists are scared about scraping, poisoning tools feel like a band-aid.
2. AI as Creative Tool — mixed. Professionals are pragmatic. Online commenters are reactive.
3. What Even Is Art? — philosophical, no consensus, probably never will be.
4. Online Bullying — negative. Strawmanning, rage-bait, and what looks like coordinated agitation.
5. AI in Workplaces — mixed. Real labor concerns vs. real prosumer opportunity.
6. AI Security — negative, and honestly undersophisticated in how it's being discussed.

So. Here are my actual takes, for whatever they're worth.

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The CGI parallel is more valid than people give it credit for — but not for the reason you think

The standard counter-argument is "CGI artists still had to learn craft, AI just scrapes." Fair point. But the deeper reason the parallel holds is this: there is no actual intelligence in these systems. They are form-generators trained on statistical patterns. They do not understand what they're making.

Here's a test I keep giving people: generate a car exterior, a house exterior, a costume exterior. Looks great, right? Now ask the same model to generate the matching interior with spatial and design continuity. It will fail. Badly. Because it has no model of three-dimensional space, no understanding of how an exterior implies an interior, no concept of cause and effect in design.

That failure is the proof. Human talent — actual spatial reasoning, narrative continuity, design logic — is still load-bearing in professional work. AI accelerates parts of the pipeline. It doesn't replace the pipeline.

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It's a tool. A genuinely good one for some things. A bad one for others.

Real creative vision right now requires the whole stack: drawing, Gen-AI, 3D, CGI, compositing. I use all of it. AI is great for rapid ideation, texture passes, concept blocking. It's terrible for anything requiring continuity, structural logic, or client-specific brand fidelity without heavy iteration. Knowing when to reach for it and when to put it down is the actual skill.

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The "is it art" debate is the least interesting conversation happening here

If machine output isn't art to you, completely valid. If it is to someone else, also valid. Art has always been defined by the audience as much as the maker. This argument has been had about photography, about CGI, about sampling in music. It never resolves. It's not supposed to. Move on.

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Some of you are getting paid to post here and it shows

Posting all day, every day, on every thread, with the same talking points? That's not passion. That's a job. The audit flagged this as a real pattern — coordinated negative sentiment that doesn't behave like organic user behavior. Posting frequency as a bannable metric is worth a serious conversation with the mods.

Users that are posting all day every day. Ban them. The only way you can do that is if you are paid.

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The prosumer revolution is the most underreported story in this whole debate

AI lets individuals compete with mid-size businesses. Costs drop, reach expands, the gap between "I have an idea" and "I have a product" compresses dramatically. You can run models locally. You can build pipelines that would have required a small studio five years ago.

The conversation here is almost entirely about what's being lost. Almost nobody is talking about what's being unlocked for people who don't have institutional backing. That asymmetry in the discourse is wild to me.

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AI security is real, but the conversation is stuck at the wrong level

"Can I jailbreak it" is not the threat model. The real issue is that these systems are statistical, not secure — and more importantly, the danger scales with convergence. When AI starts combining with other technologies in non-obvious ways, things get genuinely complicated in ways most people haven't started thinking about yet. The "a small prayer the model says no" framing is almost charmingly naive compared to what's actually on the horizon.

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Anyway. Curious what people actually think — especially the mixed 46%, who I suspect are the most honest voices in the room. What am I wrong about?

So my world view is our civilization really runs on 5 things.

information infrastructure, how we record our information, our transgenerational memory.

market infrastructure, the underpinning of finance, how we record our promises to one another.

communications, logistics and energy networks,

With these 5 things combined, we can organize to transform disorder to order. Shape our environmnet and build our civilization.

I think we are at the first time where technological disruption is happening to all 5. And convergence is when big change happens. For example, internet was a convergence of information infra and communication networks, databases and tcp/ip, massive disruption.

industrial revolution is when communications, logistics and energy networks all flip, and we know from history how disruptive that is.

Last time information and market infrastructure changed was in 1450, the reformation, and our governance institutions had to be rebuilt. A period of change far greater than the industrial revolution. Governments didnt survive these. My theory of why that is, is when information and market infra improves suddenly, the cost of organizing large groups of people, essentially what governments do, takes a very sudden and large drop, which enables people to build an institution a lot more powerful than the previous ones.

I think we are in another reformation, and overlapped industrial revolution.

So what do I think the future looks like after this. What comes after governments.

Essentially, people have the worlds information at their fingertips with an LLM, and the power of a central bank with cryptocurrencies, being able to mint currencies and equities, for very cheap. I think the future involves using currencies more of a tool to solve problems, like perhaps a proof of human token.

I think shortly, in the next 5-10 years, we will see governments collapse or at least significantly weaken, like what happened to the catholic church after the reformation, from the diffusion of power and capability.

What are your thoughts. What comes after the nation state? And do you think nation states will collapse?

I'm an AI Saftey researcher. The preliminary results have returned.

The danger is when I mixes with market infrastructure, cryptocurrency.

It gets ability to coordinate people to achieve a long horizon task and has the ability to break down a harmful task into multiple benign one.

For example, if you ask an ai to find a persons routine, where and when they are, it wont do it. But if you ask it to do it under the pretense of a surprise birthday party, it will.

You can imagine that having crypto allows it to employ a human private investigator and hire other unwitting actors.

Being able to do physical logistics is essentially warfare. If you are interested in helping me spread this message, please reach out. We are running out of time.

Organizing large groups of people is what governments do, AI now has this capability through access to market infrastructure. THis is the real threat.

The last time information and market infrastructure both became disrupted was in 1450. A hundred years of war followed. It is incredibly destabilizing.

If we do not organize, we are fucked.

I hired someone to do sales, marketing, and finance. A COO. 100 an hour + equity.

I came from a background where everyone was amazing. They get the shit done. High trust. High professionalism.

Our marketing and sales are in shambles.

No ad, sales pipelines. No calls booked and told me cold our reach is dead. My CTO took over and we have a 11% open rate. We have a mediocre SEO.

Ultimately, this is my fault. I'm a new inexperienced CEO with no understanding of sales, marketing and finance.

Didn't set KPIs and have strong accountability. Just kept believing the excuses. Failed trial after failed trial.

And our product is easy to sell. It's a magic moment. Every single person that uses it loves it and everytime it gets into a business it spreads like wildfire.

We have 300k of runway left and this person had a fucking year to build marketing and sales infra. What a god damn blunder.

Any advice.

I have to set up better SEO

Conversion pipeline

Sales Pipeline

Remarketing pipeline

Social Media pipeline.

Anything that I am missing? Any advice to get out of this god damn mess?

AN llm is a revolution to information infrastructure. How we select, encode, record, distribute, and retrieve information. You can see a book has those same properties. The people that select information that we all see, the editors, hold the most powerful position in our society.

There is no intelligence in these things. They are a model of our information, not our intelligence. They model what our intelligence has so far produced.

A crypto currency is what is called market infrastructure. It does the job of a clearing house. Something called transaction finality. It's an append only list that sits at the root of the financial systems, heavily monitored by governments. Essentially a list of who owns what. It's a special list that can't have it's history change under any circumstance or our civilization will literally fall apart.

A cryptocurrency isn't a currency. It is the special computer network that allows you to build the electronically tradable bearer instruments like currencies, equities, bonds options futures swaps required for capital market formation.

The last time we had a dual disruption to our information infrastructure and market infrastructure was in 1450. It's commonly referred to as the reformation. Essentially governments dont survive them. This dual disruption triggered the transition from feudalism to nationalism. These new tools gave us the nation state. The transition was a 100 year war. Historically, We don't handle these changes well. The reformation before that, transitioned us from nomadic tribes to city state feudalism.

We are in a reformation right now. The institutions of the 20th century can't police the things that come from llms mixing with cryptocurrency. Think of autonomous assassination markets that are insider trading on outcomes on prediction markets. A computer program wreaking havok that governments can't shut down because the thing owns it's own computers and energy generation.

You don't have to worry about a machine god fucking things up. We are well past the rubicon.

We will have to use these technologies to build whatever comes after the nation state. If you are reading this, you should start coming to terms that our governments are dying and it's a natural transition. Just like we transitioned from nomadic and feudalism. We are transitioning from nation state.

There is a lot of work to be done. Thoughts?