u/Salvo-ita

Tipico Instagram momento

I'm not an ex-vegan, but I still wanted to post this here because, well, people who are currently vegans would be partial, and perhaps even people who are of the anti-vegan sub; so, here, people who were once vegan and have been on that side for a while, or in general people who are not as fervently against veganism, would express a more nuanced opinion on this matter. (This is not to downplay people on the Anti-vegan subs, they have their reasons to fervently hate veganism, but I also understand that when someone detests something they are less willing to "compromise" or discuss it, even if it is to play devil's advocate; still, if people of that sub see this post they should be free to give their input if they wish).

I'm not going to argue too much about the point made in the post in the picture; I think that claiming kids are naturally vegan is a big stretch, and the examples provided in the post about the kid getting upset in the circumstances described by OOP (seeing the dragon eat fish, worrying about cow children being with their mother etc.) aren't really universal and applied to every children, but rather might be an indirect result of the parent's influence who tells the kid that "we don't eat ham because it's chopped up dead pigs", so it's not a good "study case" to prove how kids are in nature. In a certain sense, this also reminds me of a time when, on Instagram, I saw an Instagram vegan influencer recording her kids repeating vegan talking points when prompted by the parent, like "we don't eat animals, we care for them" or something like that.

Now, I'm of the opinion that no indoctrination in general should be imposed to children, and that they should just be allowed to make their informed choice when they are older. Indoctrination can possibly not appear as such, especially if that specific series of actions done by the parent to influence their kid is seen as socially acceptable. For instance, even when it comes to religion, I'm in favor of not forcing young kids to attend church as well as any other religious institution if they do not explicitly want to, and, as an Italian, this opinion occasionally puts me at odds with older and more traditionalist religious people of my country: in fact, here, it is socially acceptable and even expected for religious parents to direct children to Christianity ever since a very young age, to the point that for children attending "catechismo", basically a religious lesson held on Saturday, as well as doing the "first Communion" and the "Cresima" which catechismo prepares them for, is seen not just as a choice but also a duty they *have* to follow, otherwise not going through that is seen as a failing or as misbehaving on their part as much as it is, for example, refusing to go to school or getting bad grades; same goes for refusing to go to church, even if it is for example a 4 year old kid who is obviously bound to get bored during service. When I see vegan parents justifying their decisions by saying "I decide how to raise my kids", at times I think they are not that much different than religious parents; both vegan and religious parents act according to their values and believe it is the moral option to raise their kids the way they do (vegans think that eating ham is immoral and don't want their kids to do the same, while religious parents think that their kids being religious is the way to ensure them salvation, or at least they consider it their moral duty to strive them towards their religion), and in both their cases it's seen as socially acceptable (vegans raising kids vegan is receiving more acceptance in socials, while for religious parents in Italy it is acceptable to do this and people don't question it, aside from the younger and more progressive generations maybe). This to say that when I see young kids repeating vegan slogans, at times I don't see much difference compared to children repeating religious slogans.

At the same time, I acknowledge that in a more "utilitarian" point of view veganism for children would hurt less than being imposed a religion, as long as the parents know what they are doing and are providing a balanced diet to children by only using vegan ingredients AND the kid has no condition that would prevent it from following the diet (and both of these are already important "if"s to consider). In the case of being imposed a religion, the kid is just given a series of responsibilities and is taught that they have no choice but to follow them, even if religion should be their own choice; and when religious guilt comes into play, it gets even worse. At the same time, a form of "moral guilt" can happen even to the kid being raised vegan, since their young and easily influenced brains are taught from a young age that it's so wrong to eat meat.

I've heard vegans claiming that, in virtue of children having to choose their own diet, in the case of them having vegan parents, then the standard "initial" diet should be a vegan one, and then later as adults they get to choose; and while that sounds a little more reasonable, what if the child in question wants to eat meat before they reach adulthood? Plus, vegans themselves say that veganism is not just about the diet, so, if the kid is literally "raised vegan" then it would not be limited to being imposed a plant-based diet, but they would still receive the indoctrination and simply be given the chance in adulthood to walk out at the very least. That's still better than the more extreme vegans saying they'd be "disappointed" if their kids became "meat eaters" at the very least. What I can get behind with is the kids just being given a plant-based diet because the vegan parents morally abstain from buying meat, while the kid is still allowed to eat meat elsewhere if they wish (even if I'd still feel bad for the kid in question if they wanted to eat meat but can only do so in sparse occasions).

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. What do y'all think?