u/Specific_Wasabi9678

I say this as a Jogo fan, these guys are just not creative in the slightest. They either use completely null points, or they use poorly mistranslated pieces for slander.

"Jogo was hiding from Toji!!"

Impossible, Jogo could not sense Toji. But Toji could 100% sense Jogo. Toji child-killing bumass sensed a capable adult fighter and fled the scene with his son. "He set his fangs on the strongest!" yet when he and Megumi sensed Sukuna's presence this man did absolutely nothing 🤔

"Jogo dies from 5 black flashes!!"

First of all, mistranslation. This assumes an off-guarded attack directly to the head, all at once, and without no preparation. Your favorite character gets fucked up badly by these attacks too.

https://preview.redd.it/uqvkd7ubq7kh1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b323f30dd05081552d3e5617f03ebbb90d51eb6

"Jogo has no narrative!!"

Jogo was stated to be on par with the greats during the Heian Era, and was stated to be the only one that was CAPABLE of being Sukuna's foe.

https://preview.redd.it/r0he9xpcq7kh1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=86b21efb206dd9b12061a43d345740b315fe15c6

Y'all gotta do better with your slander cause this recent hatewave of Jogo is weak 🤣

This is a judgement free zone, meaning you can say any Deltarune takes you personally have, even if they have zero basis and it's unjustified to have them. Even if you know why it's a thing, still say it anyways.

Here's an example - I am really disappointed that there was no flower that parallelled CHARA, and I feel like it would've been interesting concept-wise and way more interesting than Pink.

Now normally this would be an ass take and be swarmed with 90000 deltarune defenders writing essays on why this couldn't work and how it'd undermine the importance of the chapter, but here it does not matter. Just say your personal opinion.

https://x.com/i/status/2078992396440727899 <-- Read this.

"IMPORTANT INFORMATION: It appears through further research there has been a specific, targeted disinformation campaign, ran by a collective of people located in Russia. The goal of these accounts seems to be to attack and discredit the victims and weaponize their reactions."

"It is possible their business model relies on scamming and defrauding kids, and because they primarily use Dandy's World as a mechanism, the controversy has caused them financial harm, hence why they'd do this in the first place."

"Please, exercise extreme caution in interacting with these guys. They appear to be rage baiting and intentionally smearing people for the fuck of it. If you see commenters like this, investigate their profiles for the signs! Check their post history and account details!"

The person behind the doc immediately locked their account, so this is pretty damning.

Nothing of importance was addressed in the apology, she never directed apologized to the victims nor the people she hurt, she doesn't directly address her silencing victims, overworking her employees, and mocking a grooming victim, and her excuse for funding and allowing a pedophile to be in her platform is "I thought he was manipulated!"

Multiple victims are speaking out against this. Do not close your ears and ignore this just because you want to play DW. Listen to the victims.

VICTIMS' RESPONSES

https://x.com/BoyImPlagued/status/2077432041050620402

https://x.com/gecbomb/status/2077429282842759187

She was aware of Rox being a pedophile, she was warned multiple times. Quit defending her, you gain nothing from defending her, you are staying on a sinking ship. Stop it, this level of attachment to a person you do not know is so gross, to ignore very obvious evidence just to defend a pedophile sympathizer is genuinely so gross.

I understand the majority of the playerbase are kids, but please understand that Qwel has lied to the community, gave a pedophile a platform for years, funded said pedophile, mocked a grooming victim and leaked their story to her friends for her to mock, abused and overworked her workers, and is silencing victims for speaking out.

You are actively supporting and funding if you continue to fund and play the game. Qwel has not once mentioned or apologized to her victims, she is sweeping this under the rug to further development.

Stop licking Qwel's shoes, quit making bullshit excuses for her, she doesn't know you, move onto a different game.

If you are a kid doing this, I promise you'll live without DW.

If you're an adult doing this, you aren't enpowered nor nuanced for refusing to listen to victims, you're just excusing Qwel's actions and fencesitting. Get a grip.

https://x.com/i/status/2068394107668423062

Lately, a lot of the people defend Jax's abstraction and overall character derailment by saying that it's a Cautionary Tale, and you should learn from Jax, and be better than Jax.

The main defense is that some people can't be saved, and harming yourself in the process of saving them is wrong.

Except that doesn't work for what TADC has been leading up.

First of all, to get this out of the way, Jax is meant to be a relatable character. Despite the fact that he is an abuser, sexist, all those things, his issues and his insecurities are meant to be relatable. Goose-work has stated that she relates to Jax the most and puts herself in his character way more than the other characters. Not to mention Jax is the character we gain way more information on.

His suicidal tendencies, his emotional grievances, his dead friends, the show clearly intends for you to feel sympathy for Jax. You want him to get better, and you want him to be held accountable for the people he hurt.

And yes, abstraction is an allegory for suicide. Goosework has basically confirmed it, it has been shown time and time again that it is suicide.

Now here's the problem.

The show has not been leading up to Jax abstracting being a satisfying conclusion for his character.

In the most brutal way possible, having a morally bankrupt character take their own life can feel like a cheap way to avoid accountability. Rather than facing the consequences of their actions, they escape them entirely, leaving others to deal with the damage they caused.

But the main thing is - the show has been building up to not letting Jax take the "easy way out".

In EP6, instead of Pomni accepting that Jax doesn't want to be friends with her, Pomni pushes for a sincere reaction from Jax, even fighting him. Pomni still despite everything considers Jax a friend, and is frustrated at Jax, because in her own words "You're scared you'll actually show a human emotion."

In EP7 and EP8, it is clear by not only the characters, but the narrative that they won't let Jax abstract, that despite Jax being a pain in the ass, he's one of them. Pomni making sure that Jax is "here later", and Zooble stopping Jax from "wandering off or abstracting" is clearly showing that the group won't let Jax kill himself.

I say this because it seemed like Jax's development would be him having to confront his insecurities and actually apologize to the people he hurt, while the cast refuses to allow him to kill himself.

But that goes nowhere,

because he kills himself anyways, which renders all of that mumbo gumbo about "we're not gonna let you wander off and abstract" useless. Because that is exactly what happens.

And the show deals with this so sloppily. He tries to talk to Pomni, Pomni acknowledges this, he walks off, and then he abstracts off screen. That's it, and then Pomni goes... inside of his dreamscape (how is this possible? We've never seen this happen once) and he remains dead.

The cast is sad over the death of Jax... for a couple of minutes, but then they move on. No funeral for Jax, nothing.

Which is my main point - you don't get the impression that it's a tragedy that Jax died. The show romanticizes it.

After Jax is gone for good, everything starts to improve, Caine returns back, the circus improves, and everyone's lives seem way better off with Jax dead.

It gives off the impression that Jax was just a parasite in the group, and with him gone everyone's issues magically get solved in a sweet little montage.

It feels insulting as hell, because Jax took up so much screentime just for his arc to go nowhere. The show has been (for the lack of a better term) edging us for the past couple of episodes that Jax is abstracting and he is on the verge of suicide, and the resolution for this is that he dies anyways and everyone moves on.

It was. meaningless. That is screentime that could've gone to actually developing Ragatha, Pomni, Kinger, Gangle, or Zooble, literally any other circus member needed the development that was just given to Jax to show that "hey! Jax is suicidal! He's about to kill himself!"

It isn't realistic. I need to stress this enough, it isn't realistic. Pomni having to be heavily OOC just to give an excuse to let Jax abstract isn't realistic, when it has been shown time and time again that Pomni would've confronted Jax there and then if she thought Jax was about to abstract.

I mentioned previously in my old post that the message the show is trying to go for was unintentionally pro-suicide, and I still hold that belief. For a lot of viewers relating to Jax, having him commit suicide after episodes of edging the viewer, having the cast mourn him for a couple of minutes, then move on, and having everyone's lives improve without him is HORRIBLE. It's a really bad message to send.

The finale in general just makes you wonder "what was the point of the other episodes?" EP6, EP7, and EP8 are meaningless because every important tad-bit gets immediately retconned in EP9 (Caine getting deleted, Jax changing and helping the cast, the group's refusing to let Jax abstract". I can not stress this enough it does not work as a cautionary tale.

That's all.

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I've seen clusters of posts glazing the finale and Goosework to no end, and claiming that if you hated or disliked the ending, you have no literacy / you didn't "fundamentally understand" the themes, or you're just a whiny bitch.

This fandom is so parasocial and creepy towards a person they literally do not know that it's genuinely concerning.

I can't stress this enough how the finale ruins everything. Jax abstracting was such a horrible decision because it basically makes all his development worthless.

You can't argue that it's a cautionary tale, because we see Jax try to change, even if it was small (like actually cooperating with the group in EP7 and EP8), we see the group accepting Jax as "one of them", and we see Pomni fighting for their friendship, even when Jax pushed them away. It's basic writing for this to go somewhere, even if it's predictable.

But no, Jax abstracts offscreen ~10 minutes in the movie, and the majority of the movie is spent deep diving into Jax's thoughts and basically doing a "kick the puppy" move by making it so -- turns out -- he not only injured, if not killed his mom, AND sexually harassed Gangle but he indirectly caused two of his closest friends to (basically) kill themself. Just so it's 100% justified to off him.

It was a major issue with Jax being the only "bad" person in the entire circus, because it makes it seem unrealistic as hell. Every bad thing that happens in the show, everything is Jax's fault, and even CAINE -- the closest thing we have to a morally ambiguous character, gets basically forgiven and pardoned despite torturing the circus members with their deepest darkest fears.

To be honest, EP7 was when the series started to have its downfall. Beforehand, it was reasoned that everyone would have proper screentime, but it was revealed that Jax would just get another episode dedicated to himself, and the near-abstraction scene went completely NOWHERE because it turns out -- he abstracted anyways.

Hot take? I wanted the other characters to be more problematic, to have more flaws, more action, just so 99% of the conflict wouldn't just be Jax.

The show made it such a big deal out of Ragatha's conflict and overbearingness, but it went nowhere, and really? It wasn't that bad, just minorly annoying. Ragatha as a character got hoed in the worst way possible, all of her development went nowhere and she feel so damn robbed. Being hyped up to be as important as Jax and (maybe) Pomni just to be sidelined and given the bare minimum when it comes to story-telling.

The show tries to explore Gangle's and Zooble's body issues, but once again this goes nowhere, the two of them have a therapy speech and their issues are solved offscreen. Not to mention they never get the chance to have a meaningful interaction with anyone else because figuratively and (literally), they're too busy sucking each-other off.

Kinger, someone who has withheld information from the group for years, is never questioned on this and his state of mind is never properly explored. He is subjected to just being a plot-device that comes out when he needs to be milked to his core. Like how 99/100 when he is sane, he is only sane because he needs to give someone a therapy-talk or progress the plot by explaining something.

Pomni is functionally used as a camera for Jax's issues because she never properly develops (and no, I'm not counting "getting over being in the circus" as proper development. Her character goes no-where, we don't learn anything interesting about her and her archetype is so boring that the writers had to tell us that she "developed" by stating that Ragatha and her are "best friends" (despite their most important interaction being OFF-SCREEN.)

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It's all Jax, Jax, and Jax. But even the buildup for Jax went nowhere, because after suicide-baiting the audience for 4+ episodes, he abstracts anyways.

Why do you think people were so distraught over it? Because the show treats Jax abstracting like a net positive. After he kills himself, everyone is happier and the circus improves, they keep him as a lobotomized puppy on a leash, and everyone seems to be doing way better without him.

This is such a dangerous message to bring out, because Jax's issues are meant to be relatable. Goosework relates to them and she intends for the audience to relate to Jax's struggles, even if they think he's a horrible person, which he is.

To not sugarcoat it -- it is the most "pro-suicide" message I've seen in a while.

It's basically telling you that it's useless to get help, because you can't be helped, and to just commit suicide anyways, because once you do, not only will you be able to run away from all of your issues, but everyone's lives will improve.

It. Does. Not. Work. As. A. Cautionary. Tale. The show builds up Pomni and the others accepting Jax into their group despite everything he's done, showing that despite them disliking Jax, they don't want him to abstract, and EP9 throws this into the shitter by having him abstract, having no one check up on him, and having no funeral for him at all.

No one is happy. Jax haters are unhappy because Jax soaked up so much screentime just for his story to go nowhere, and Jax fans are unhappy because someone who they relate to kills themself, and everyone's lives magically improves.

And the thing that sucks is that TADC tricks you into believing the story is good*.* EP6, EP4, EP3 has some of the best storytelling I've seen in a while, the character interactions were nice, and it makes you feel invested into the show.

But then the rest of the show takes a dumpster dive into the toilet with its writing, and you're left feeling betrayed. It hurts a lot because the show had so much potential, but it went NOWHERE.

To not sugarcoat it - I don't believe Goosework should be a writer to this degree ever again. This finale will 100% nuke any chance of indie writers ever being taken seriously again, especially given how much Goosework self inserts and puts her own fetishes into the show.

I have never seen a show shoot itself in the foot to this level, and I've seen CSM's ending. Honestly Hazbin Hotel is somehow more respectable than this because you aren't gaslighted into believing that HH ever had good writing.

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