u/Technical_Crab9798

This post is a mapping out on how mbti + enneagram has an influence on how others understand enneagram and as a consequence, how they type themselves and others.

Enneagram is primarily about understanding people’s emotional motivations for why they act in the way that they do. It deals with the primary emotions which are fear, love and anger. This is different from logical motivations which deals with facts, statistics, systems and accuracy. It is therefore safe to say that people who are best at understanding people’s emotional motivations are the ones who possess the best understanding of enneagram, and those who are weak in understanding other people’s motivations have a poor understanding of enneagram.

Then there is the case of balancing objective judgment (Je) with subjective judgment (Ji). Ji would like to inject their own understanding of the world into enneagram compared to Je, while Je would ignore their personal biases in favor for a view that’s more general and widely accepted. Since each person has both, it is often a balancing scheme between these two functions. Ti/Fe types want to insert their personal views of how the world works/systems into a larger Fe map of socially valuable vs invaluable, while Fi/Te types want to make enneagram a system of their likes/dislikes and communicate it as factually accurate/inaccurate.

It could also be noted that there are two ways to understand the motivations of others, either it could be understood in relation with one’s own personal emotional motivation (Fi) or through an objective mapping/spectrum of emotions (Fe). Fi types generally have a limited range of understanding due to centering themselves in their own system of values. Fe types ten to have a bigger understanding emotions that aren’t their own. This will be expanded upon later.

There are two ways of typing others or oneself. The first way is by performing a personal judgment/call (Ji), the second way is by taking into account external results/output (Je). Both ways are prone to fluctuating, both external output tends to change, and one’s own perception of oneself tends to change. Another way of spotting this fluctuation other than changing one’s personal type is by changing what it means to be a type (Ji informing Je) or by changing one’s own perception that they have of themselves based on how they’re perceived by others (Je informing Ji). Personal perception aka how we feel about ourselves is primarily influenced by the feeling function, therefore Fe types are more likely to take in how others perceive them into account when using enneagram while Fi types tend to take their own self perception as the primary way of typing themselves.

Fe/Ti types try to make sense of other people’s perception using their own personal system of logic, making sure that there are no contradictions to what others perceive. Ti gives Fe solidity in the sense that they will completely omit information that’s logically inconsistent, therefore their self perception doesn’t completely change the moment new information is added. Fi/Te types would change the facts based on how they feel, almost completely derailing the definition of what it means to be a type given that they identify with it. They will communicate their feelings as facts.

When it comes to how information is digested we have both the Pe and Pi functions. Pe tends to keep ends open compared to Pi, often to a detriment. But what’s more important in enneagram is the reliance on understanding patterns (N) more than singular events (S). Ni relies more on the essence of a person, reducing information to simple patterns and abstractions, while Ne has tendency of expansion and rearrangement of patterns, often creating something new entirely. Ni will funnel down events into a single type, while Ne will run all the possibilities in order to find anything unexpected. Ne is best at understanding situations that are completely new and foreign, applying new molds to different people to see how it fits, but they leave everything open ended. Ni would try to fit people into their own preexisting patterns. It’s only when they’re exposed to more sensory information that they can be more accurate in their typing.

In terms of sensory information, Si types tend to have a fixation on certain repetitive details like phrases. They’re also most likely to read a large amount of content to expand their understanding rather than engaging with the world through Ne.

Se on the other hand works more with impact, how assertive someone is in their description, and will avoid reading between the lines. If something is unclear or vague, Se types will have trouble taking this information into account.

A quick run down of where each type falls in terms of understanding enneagram:

ENTPs and INTPs:
Often the best at understanding enneagram from the get go, they understand the abstract information right away. Their Fe is still very much present in their understanding, reducing their personal biases when typing others.

ENTPs are often the worst when it comes to typing Fi types due to their PoLR Fi reacting to other’s self expression. This applies to ESTPs too.

INTPs create something really interesting with enneagram by developing adjacent systems or overlapping it with other typologies.

They can be a bit open ended, what they type you will depend on which day of the week it is. INTPs might have more consistent results with developed Si.

ENFJs and INFJs:
Can get really good with time, are the least biased types out there when it comes to understanding enneagram. However they need several years to truly develop their mental framework to avoid being influenced by what others perceive.

ESFJs and ISFJs:
Really good at understanding enneagram but ISFJs would center their type too much around their limited worldview. ESFJs are really good at understanding enneagram when they tap into Ne. xSFJs are best at typing people within their own environment as opposed to online spaces.

ESTPs and ISTPs:
They can get good with typing but unfortunately too many of them get stuck trying to understand their own worldview and how it fits into Fe. xSTPs will often get too hung up trying to understand how a system like typology would work in their own social environment while not accounting for environments that they completely avoid.

When it comes to Fi/Te types, these types vary based on their enneagram type. Fi/Te types would be very good at typing people who share the same enneagram type but their understanding will be limited to that.

Fi/Te types also tend to project emotions when they don’t understand it. Fi/Te types would often have to “put themselves in other people’s shoes” to understand others. Fi/Te types will not understand the difference between abilities, perception and type.

Fi/Te types have a tendency to use enneagram and typology as a means of self expression rather than building a mental framework. On the flip side, they will be the types most likely to monetize typology. They may or may not be less biased if they take the money route.

ENFPs and INFPs:
They possess a good understanding of enneagram but they do not have any interest in typing people correctly. They’re primarily motivated by self interest and self expression when it comes to enneagram.

ENTJs and INTJs:
They’re good at putting aside their personal feelings at times but only if it will benefit them in some way. ENTJs are particularly good at typing others but occasionally their Fi will take the forefront and they will use enneagram as a means of self expression.

INTJs will have some aversion to anyone typing themselves through Fe due to their PoLR Fe. Taking people’s opinions into consideration would often make them have a jerk reaction. This applies to ISTJs too.

ESFPs and ISFPs:
There are hardly any in enneagram spaces, but if they are they often possess a very limited understanding based on their Se experiences.

ESTJs and ISTJs:
Similar to ENTJs and INTJs they can be good at enneagram, but their Fi takes the forefront in typology spaces.

After taking MBTI into consideration enneagram takes a smaller role. When reading descriptions, descriptions are often ideal versions of a type. In terms of enneagram, there is one triad concerned with idealism, which is the frustration triad. The frustration triad would have a greater understanding of potential compared to the rejection and attachment triad.

Nowadays most arguments against disrespect are geared towards Fi.

Most of the time it’s about „how I feel“, „I feel hurt and betrayed“, and talking in depth about the emotional experience of being disrespected, how I thought that our friendship was deeper and how others keep pushing the bar of what’s acceptable.

I have observed enfjs in person but none of them have really been disrespected, well, because most people are civil when it comes to face to face interaction.

But I don’t think I can imagine any of the enfjs that I know (or esfjs even) having that strong Fe that could snap their fingers at someone who would openly say a slur besides one of my favorite teachers who taught me in middle school who happened to be enfj. She commanded respect, managed to discipline even the most disrespectful children, and succeeded creating a generally polite atmosphere. I’m not sure why it’s rare phenomenon and yet she’s the only example that comes to mind.

So what are your opinions towards this topic?

Could it be the dominance of Te environments (money and productivity determining respect)? Or is it weak Ti (if it’s logically true, then it’s deserved)? Or maybe a fear of consequences (if I assert myself, I might lose my job)?

I’m open to hearing new ideas.

Questionnaire by u/Extra_Restaurant6962

Link here: x

I decided to make this post to understand the general perception that people have of my type, because I realized at some point I need to factor it into my typing / see if there are any major discrepancies.

*1. Recall an event where you were distressed or faced great difficulty. Describe your subjective experience.*

Two years ago I had a fever that lasted three weeks and the general practitioner refused to give me sick leave. Instead I was injected with antibiotics every few days and was expected to go back to work while still feeling sick but then a few days later it would become unbearable again.

Generally situations like these are distressing because I never ask for help when I’m visibly in need of it. Later though I changed jobs and I was never pressured by others to ask for help. Now it’s pretty much a standard in my life to never be a part of such a strict work culture, because even during school/uni I always had some wiggle room or some teacher who’s willing to let me off. I only stay in jobs that rely on personal favors / relationships rather than environments with strict rules.

*2. What is your perspective when it comes to relationships and social interaction of all kinds? What do you value?*

With family or friend groups I tend to sit back and not talk a lot. I’m also last to participate in any activity that people do and I don’t participate unless someone involves me.

At work I tend to know most of what’s happening even though I don’t directly get involved, I keep strong track of relationships between people in a way that could help me further my own career. I know who’s productive and who’s not, who’s irritating everyone and who gets the work done, I know who’s getting excluded and who’s liked by everyone. I know what is expected from me in terms of hierarchy and how to improve my relationship based on that (like sharing experiences, personal opinions, guidance etc.). I don’t participate in bonding activities with my coworkers though. I also don’t acknowledge group roles when it comes to my own personal work, regardless of whether someone else has a specific role. If I can do it better I will take over. If I sense incompetence or laziness from others I’ll exclude them from what I’m doing.

My personal interactions are ones with a lot of inside jokes and references, like quick witted ones where me and the other person are on the same page. Which is pretty exclusionary. But if I can’t have fun or if there are too many people frowning at me for being too personal with certain individuals, I simply don’t tolerate that entitlement from others. I go quiet when there’s a sense urgency or strong expectations from other people.

I also have some friendships were we mostly just talk about how we feel.

When it comes to romantic relationships, I never take initiative and I rely on others to create it, how long it lasts completely depends on them. Whether they find something out about me completely depends on whether they ask or not, nothing really stems from myself. They also have to be „emotionally separate“ in the sense that I could be feeling something completely different and they still have to be able to stand their ground. Which filters out a lot of people surprisingly because a lot of people expect shared feelings and shared emotional investment and I mostly just satisfy myself. Also when I sense that there’s something that’s unsaid I don’t budge until it’s spelled out.

*3. How do you feel about your own needs and desires? Are you confident that they can be fulfilled? How and why?*

In terms of material desires, etc, i can admire a lot of things from afar but I never ask for it. I don’t spend a lot of money on myself, and I did a lot of questionable things in the past to cut costs. Even in terms of energy if I could skip doing something I would unless I’m being held accountable by someone else.

I’m very strict in terms of my needs. I have no issue withdrawing at a moments notice the minute I sense that I‘m being used. If I do something I usually demand that I have full authority over it otherwise I will not do it at all, I don’t do a patch-up job nor do I fix anyone’s mistakes. I don’t accept charity jobs like people who pretend that doing something for them would benefit me. I don’t do group effort either, I only work for my own recognition.

I spend a lot of time with imagery that provokes certain emotions, creating visuals that express how I feel, spending time exploring old buildings, going on short trips alone with my camera. I do a lot of people watching while walking through the neighborhood. I have several creative pursuits that I’ve been working on since I was a child, every year I upgrade a thing or two that could help me improve my output.

It was also fulfilling to me to be part of a company that didn’t expect me to follow the rules, I never stay in a place that expects me to strictly comply to working hours or to follow an organizational structure. I don’t have any sense of urgency in what I do. Creative freedom is a must, I never do things the way people expect me to do it „because it’s always been done this way“.

So I’m not really waiting for a miracle in my life to happen for me to change things, even though my current state is really not optimal.

*4. What is your personal worldview? (Indulge your philosophical side here!)*

Uh. It’s pretty dark and bleak. I do find a lot of philanthropy to be double sided, I never trusted a public figure with anything in my life. I never relied on a public figure delivering on their word, I live completely outside of politics. I don’t rely on the „good will“ of people to be saved from anything.

I trust very questionable people way more with my personal affairs than people who are well regarded by others. The more questionable the better, I despise „civility“ in the sense that everything someone does is by the book, it is a huge red flag for me when someone does everything like their parents/society told them to and never had conflict in their life.

I tend to take a more balanced approach when judging situations, and I read a lot of history to understand how situations can be framed. History tends to repeat itself and there’s nothing really new in this world so everything is kinda underwhelming to me. I don’t read the news and I’m pretty mindful of what I consume.

I do my best to shield myself with knowledge so I’m never affected by other people’s bad decisions. I don’t rely on the good will of others to get on with my life. My mental framework is completely independent from information that’s trending to the public like the news/tiktok, I read about topics in depth from 1-2 sources that feel „right“ and I have a good hunch when there’s missing / wrong information. I have a small rotation of people that I listen to: historical commentary, food science, anything related to production of goods, or just gathering some videos that provide essential information. I never go for heavily opinionated information, even at the cost of making my own wrong judgment. I don’t read from sources that try to tell me what to think.

*5. What major life lessons have you learned or are currently trying to learn? What makes you different from the more foolish/immature you in the past?*

That I should let go because whatever is going to come is going to come anyway and there’s no point in trying to fight it, and if something feels like too much effort it’s usually not for me.

Current typing: INFJ sx/sp 4w5 5w4 1w2