r/Enneagram

Edit: I’ve found a more appropriate title: Musings over the negative expression of the sx-instinct.

I didn’t know what to title this. I attempted to avoid making it sx-4 coded and have failed miserably.

I heard that your dominant instinct is where your focus commonly lies, and therefore is more so a source of overthinking/insecurity/anxiety over immediate mastery.

Having an instinct as dominant ≠ being good at it. That means it could actively terrify you, and still be your dominant instinct (SX-dominants with volatile attachment styles, I’m speaking to you).

Hence for example, social anxiety can point to SO- dominance, binge eating to SP, and restlessness in romantic relationships to SX.

Now about SX, what about the extreme opposite end of wanting? the hyper-opposite of actively chasing chemistry, of scanning for a spark to fulfil your blazing fantasy. So stern abstinence. Vigilant asceticism.

What distinguishes this from an SX-blind prude is the why behind it, which is still SX in nature; insecurity over being looked at with revulsion over desire once bare, or perhaps even a reaction to domineering religious/cultural restraints (if I can’t have my specific desired fantasy due to moral restraints, I won’t have anything at all- and God better see my temperance and reward me with what fucking I want/j).

Sexual instinct ≠ willpower.

Are there any SX-dominants here who have experienced this frustrating yet deliberate ‘repression’?.

(and to non prude SX-blinds; I see you. I’m well aware that not all SX-blinds are prudes, but all prudes are most definitely SX-blind).

Edit: While I’m not loyal to any particular enneagram author, I would say my understanding of the sexual instinct aligns with John Lukovich’s; where I state complete rejection of pursuing over not being able to have what I want is especially his idea of repulsion.

I've been trying to figure out if I'm a 3 or a 9 for the past few months and it seemed like I was going nowhere. I thought trying to figure out my triad would help since your fix influences you as well but it just seems like they're constantly battling between core and first fix. How strong can the fixes be exactly?

I’m 99% sure I’m 136 as a tritype, but what I wonder is which of the three is the core and if it’s type 6. I know people type 6 and 9 on here like crazy, but I always wonder about 6 since sometimes I have a hard time pinning anything down for myself and wonder.

I thought one since I have a lot of resentment and frustration but often feel guilty about it and am an overbearing perfectionist. I also thought 3 since I am terrified of failure, I am jealous of people who can relax and have a good time, and I always feel like I need to be “on” and be this champion or this model citizen.

With Sx 6 being strength and beauty, wouldn’t that also be a potential contender for this type? If I am misunderstanding the type, please correct me, but I wonder. Especially since I can be very aggressive sometimes.

Spesifically sx6 vs sx4, Im Wondering if i may be a e6, but im not like the typical sp or so 6, just sx, but also sx4

Whats some differences?

Some people don’t have childhood trauma at all when enneagram I believe borns from childhood trauma… i remember clearly before highschool, I was sp/so2w3 and i never related to sp/so6w7 at all… now, i do have 2 in my tritype but I’m sp6 in general👀

I might be biased because my dad is an ESFJ 1w2 and we don’t always get along, but I find 1w2s to be one of the most difficult types to be friends with. They can be almost 8-like in terms of their intensity and causing other people to walk on eggshells when they enter a room, and often carry themselves with an unearned holier-than-thou attitude. It’s possible I’ve only been exposed to unhealthy 1w2s, but in general I now avoid people like this unless it’s for something work-related.

Also, if I’m right about 1w2s - how do you think they tend to develop this way? Is it parental/environmental influence, or something else?

I'm an sp/sx 4 and the people who come up to me are usually 9s, 5s, and sometimes 4s.

(lmao why are people downvoting I'm just curious.)

I am a 6 and my friend is a 9. We both grew up in homes where we were told STFU and be quiet always. Recognizing we haven't been communicating our feelings, now in adulthood we want to know how to recognize and name our feelings. I'm a fan of the feeling charts , but is there any tools you have in your toolbox?

(Specifically sx types because I think they tend to be more extreme than sp or so dominant types.)

I’d love to hear your own anecdotal experiences.

My personal ranking:

Worst —> 8, 1, 2, 4, 6, 3, 7, 5, 9 <—- least bad

- Remember, “Feelings aren’t facts!”

- Be aware of your dream self and your reality. The image you have in your head is NOT unobtainable. Appreciate where you are now and be proud of your talent and skills. This will lend you more opportunities to achieve your goals and reach your desired self.

- STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO OTHERS!!!

- Surround yourself with people who acknowledge your good qualities and talents.

- To go along with that one, don't be scared of reality checks. Have people in your life to keep you accountable. It may feel nice at the bottom, but we are all familiar with how draining and life-threatening it can become. We also need these checks when we get too lost in our dream self.

- Notice your accomplishments! Write down what made you feel accomplished at the end of your day. Even the smallest things, like doing the dishes or taking a shit.

- When struggling with feelings of envy, take a moment to recognize this emotion and breathe. Be curious about why you're feeling this way. Don't let it consume you or put you down. You've been there, done that. Let's utilize these feelings differently.

- Practice self-friendship. How would you treat a friend in their time of need? Now do that with yourself. Work on self-compassion and honour your feelings.

- Remember! You don't have to have it together all the time. No one does. When you feel inadequate compared to someone who seems more put together than you, know that they are struggling just as much or more. We. Are. Not. All. Perfect.

I noticed that 4w5s and 5w4s have some attraction towards unexplainable events, and if you throw in those with a 4 and a 5 fix too, both have a natural inclination towards anything that isnt hard science.

Even 4w3 celebrities like Alison Harvard have some inclination towards displaying themselves as creepy, otherwordly, backroom type of person. As for people I know personally, theyre more interested in learning latin than, say, french or italian.

When it comes to presenting themselves, 4s tend to exaggerate whats different about them, or perhaps theyd exaggerate the parts that people want to hide about themselves.

https://preview.redd.it/7jn943i64akh1.png?width=736&format=png&auto=webp&s=5fbe87a7ccbfcac3f174bb56047d513cec108c39

https://preview.redd.it/79uv2hda4akh1.png?width=735&format=png&auto=webp&s=7fc0720ed814513f1417aed83d7df50b229fc296

https://preview.redd.it/wy34w7zf4akh1.png?width=735&format=png&auto=webp&s=0955ce8f0bf888f68078e2706896efa9edeee32f

(these are more e4 inspired pics)

I type Tim Burton as a 4w5. Every take he has leans obscure and creepy. When comparing the disney animation of Alice and the Wonderland to his film, the difference between his take and the OG version shows how other types handle unexplainable events compared to a 4. Where other types would narrate their story with some degree of lightheartedness, the 4 would focus on evoking uncomfortable emotions in the audience. If you throw sx in there theres some degree of provocativeness (Tim Burton is sx-so)

When it comes to e5, their worldview leans more towards spotting patterns, for them life makes no sense at all and like theyre in a pitch black world with a torchlight.

https://preview.redd.it/ly546w6j5akh1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=75f5ac27193d3e16c08c740c445f0db16b0c47dc

https://preview.redd.it/0j7d074l5akh1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4e2b6dc868b8b647856108e9ecc4ee5b9603610

My favorite author, Daniel Handler, is a 5w4. His books for children, A series of unfortunate events, is what I imagine a 5w4 worldview is like (plus polr Se in his case). In a world where nothing really makes sense, 5s find solace in their minds, focusing on what makes sense to them rather than depending on others for help.

https://preview.redd.it/jrnykvdb9akh1.png?width=736&format=png&auto=webp&s=568a2a89d04a6712a6d432bbc2d8d8631d7d4368

Where 5w6s might lean towards being a hikikomori - hacker type of person, 5w4s lean more towards ancient texts, obscure websites, and inaccessible information. The w4 elitism is well encapsulated in the ASOUE books, with the VFD being the secret organization that carries secrets. Ancient vocab, memento mori, and a contrast with seemingly normal and functional characters like Carmelita. And for some reason, most people who would appear normal in real life are often displayed as creepily functional in this worldview.

https://preview.redd.it/vq0n6fnnbakh1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=d36d4d729398b07e6ae22935c9c5744dbd9c1b5b

https://preview.redd.it/pmhdkg32cakh1.png?width=442&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c59271d84fe28872c2b7bfd720129e794eb5f12

https://preview.redd.it/ytxqf8hucakh1.png?width=236&format=png&auto=webp&s=af2c388877207fcc29204ac5ef3c3432d5767bac

Obligatory anime mention, needed to include this boy, aka the OG 4w5 creation.

https://preview.redd.it/5tesm4ihdakh1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=680904d21ca62404b3257f31ae8b9e3797ac7181

And for further reading, Tintenherz and Die unendliche Geschichte (I need to finish them sometime)

For example, how would a SX4 disintegrating into an E2 look like? Would they exhibit the traits of SX2, the same subtype as their dominant instinct, or would they resemble traits of an SP2 or SO2? How would they feel in the long run, considering they would have to sacrifice a core part of their identity in order to chase after people for validation?

This is just an example, obviously. I would like to know if any of you have disintegrated into another type yourself, and how it felt and how you dealt with completely changing your natural behaviour.

I’m working with my own (mostly my mother cause my father is hard to work with about this stuff, I don’t think he wants to be figured out lol) to find out what they are and how that has influenced my own typing. I’m highly suspicious that my mom is 6, with a 2 fix. My dad has got to have an 8 fix as I doubt it’s his core. But that’s about it for now. What about yall?

Björk, iconic Icelandic singer/creator/composer, is usually typed as a 4. If she is a 4 she would be just about the healthiest one I know of. The thing is that while she’s undeniably unique and dramatic, she doesn’t express much at all shame or self-consciousness, and in fact not much of her music is really themed around feeling different.

For that reason I think that 7 is probably a better fit for her, probably one-on-one/sx-instinct first type 7. This subtype is noted for idealizing life, finding the hope and possibility where others might not see it. Björk actually expresses a lot of optimism, hope and appetite for life in her music and interviews, explicitly touching on those traits pretty often. One of her songs is titled “Big-Time Sensuality”. While it’s true that she has works like Vulnicura that center around heartbreak, even these seem to be framed in an optimistic way, like they’re the catharsis needed to connect with others who are also going through heartbreak and to move forward.

I just think that if she really is a 4, she would have to be pretty much the most optimistic and assertive 4 ever, lol. 4’s definitely don’t have a monopoly on creativity or originality!

Do any other Björk fans have any thoughts?

I think the Enneagram has lost its focus on “why”

I've been reading about the Enneagram for around five years. For the first four years or so, I was very interested in typing other people and fictional characters. I was probably better at typing people than characters (because honestly, I'm terrible at typing characters), and I found the whole process very fun, but I was quickly caught in these thoughts of "I hate this type" "this type is bad" and trying to avoid people who were a certain type. And I know a lot of people who have behaved this way as well. Still, I don't think this is common either.

However, my perspective has changed a lot after reading almost every enneagram book by Claudio Naranjo. I know Naranjo isn't everyone's preferred author, but his work completely changed the way I understand the enneagram and I think everyone into the enneagram should give at least their type's book a try.

One thing I've come to dislike over the years is the way the enneagram is often used to type other people. I'm not necessarily saying that things like Type Me Tuesday (I think that's how it's called here), typing characters, or casually guessing someone's type are inherently bad. What bothers me is how easily this turns the enneagram into a system of identifying what people do rather than understanding why they do it.

I think this has a lot to do with the fact that the enneagram is such a difficult matter, and it's all about studying 27 types, not just the fun 9 boxes you can put people into. I'm afraid the conversation turned from 27 types that you can use to better yourself to, again, 9 fun boxes for memes. This isn't inherently bad, as the enneagram is not a science, but I think it's also something to think about, considering it's also people's life study.

A lot of enneagram content seems to focus on surface-level traits: "Type 7s are like this," "Type 5s behave like that," etc. Then those traits become associated with particular behaviors, and eventually people start typing others based almost entirely on what they OBSERVE them doing, when the more important question WHY they're doing it.

One example I find rather interesting is the social 7. A social 7 can, in certain circumstances, behave in ways that look similar to what we might stereotypically associate with a 5, more so, a social 5. And also, someone who is a 5 might sometimes behave in ways we'd stereotypically associate with a 7. The behavior itself isn't necessarily what determines the type. The underlying motivation, fixation, passion, defense mechanisms, and internal experience matter much more. And stuff like this is precisely why I have stopped trying to type people from the outside.

We can observe someone's actions, but we can't directly observe their inner motivations. We can make guesses, obviously, but there is a huge difference between "this person behaves like a 7" and "this person is a 7 because I understand the psychological structure behind their behavior." The latter is much harder to establish, especially when we're talking about someone we don't actually know deeply. And of course, if you have read Naranjo's books, you're gonna notice there are actual people as examples of every type, and characters. I would like to clarify, again, that typing people and characters is not bad, I just think it's not the thing we should be focusing on if we're into the enneagram. I think this becomes particularly problematic when the Enneagram turns into a kind of categorization game: I'm a 4, you're a 7, she's a 2, this character is a 5. Eventually, the boxes become more interesting than what the system was supposedly designed to help us understand. For me, the Enneagram has become much more interesting since I stopped focusing so heavily on identifying everyone's type.

If you approach it as a tool for self-knowledge and growth, you start asking very different questions. Instead of "What type is this person?" you start to ask: Why does this person behave this way? What are they feeling? What am I failing to understand about them? Why does their behavior frustrate me? What can I learn from it?

Because honestly, when you are so focused in putting people and their mistakes into a box, you risk dehumanizing them, turning them into their actions and forgetting about what's important: Why are they acting this way? What's behind?

I think this can be very harmful when you're doing it with people in your daily life, ex friends, family... for characters it can be way less serious. And again, it depends on how seriously are you taking it anyway. Not everyone is as extreme as me at 15 lol.

That's also why I think reading about types other than your own can be life changing. Their biographies are a key part of every book I swear. I've read material about types that I initially thought had nothing to do with me, for example the enneagram 2. And yet I still found things in that book that helped me understand myself. Not because I secretly "was a 2," but because understanding a psychological structure that is very different from your own can help you develop empathy and recognize aspects of yourself that you otherwise wouldn't notice. Going back to what I said in the beginning, I didn't necessarily have the sudden realization that "omg I should really stop hating this enneagram and thinking bad about them" right after reading the book. This was after some years of reading, thinking, growing, exposing my own flaws to myself and others... Etc. this wasn't something that I just "unlocked" suddenly after reading one book of a type I "hated".

Honestly, this stuff is one of the things that makes me uncomfortable about the current Enneagram community. Sometimes it feels like the system has become "put everyone into one of nine boxes" rather than a tool for understanding human psychology, suffering, and ultimately personal growth.

Again, I'm not saying people should stop typing fictional characters or that casually guessing someone's type is inherently harmful. I still find typing people fun myself. What I'm questioning is whether making typing other people such a central part of Enneagram culture is actually compatible with the deeper purpose of the system.

I joined this subreddit because I was hoping to find more discussion about the enneagram study, its psychological foundations, different authors and interpretations, and especially the work of people like Naranjo. Instead, I've been somewhat disappointed by how much of the discussion revolves around identifying types from behaviors, appearances, or superficial traits.

Maybe I'm being overly critical, and I'm genuinely interested in hearing other perspectives. Do you think the Enneagram community has become too focused on "what type is this person?" and not focused enough on "why does this person function this way?"?

I just read lot of info about the childhood experience of each enneagram and....it doesn't make any sense to me, I mean, a type 4 could have had a perfectly normal and happy childhood and STILL be a 4, a type 6 could have had a really stable parents and enviroment and STILL be a 6, soo I don't know were they came up with this idea that each eneatype had to have a certain type of childhood to have the defense mechanisms they developed, take an example with siblings, they could have had the same chilhood because they grew up in the same house with the same parents and yet develop different points of view about the world and themselves, with this in mind, How do you think the mechanisms of the enneatypes were formed? Since childhood

Eneatype 1: Their COMMON SENSE and their confidence when they came up with a moral or ethic conclusion.

Eneatype 2: Their charm, extraversion and their ability of not being afraid to do something just because "in the name of love"

Eneatype 3: Their pragmatism and competency

Eneatype 4: I fricking love you guys you're really really intersting, buuut sometimes they freak me out about their pessimism

Eneatype 5: Some of the most INTERSTING types among 4s for me, their intellectual curiosity and their actual confidence in their logical capacities

Eneatype 6: Their sense of responsability, good in there guys 🫡

Eneatype 7: Charming and intersting but sometimes too much energy for me, pls I just wanna have some tea party with you and relax

Eneatype 8: OK sometimes they fricking scared me but I really love their hability to survive and keep continue despite the circumstances

Eneatype 9: Their hability to hold up a very large amount of anger and still being so chill about the world (I'm not talking about me guys, just my expirience with other 9s I've meet)