u/Twostagdance

I have returned with yet more questions. I am interested in hearing people’s experience with Aphorism 13 (which talks about it) and 14 (the prayer) for God to send you a Spirit / Genius /  Daimon.

I figure this is the first step before actually calling up the Olympic Spirits. So I have to ask, how did it go? How do you know when it has worked? What is your experience with this?

I am excited to read, because having done some reading it seems most folks don’t talk about this part of the Arbatel much at all.

What resources would you all recommend for learning how to understand correspondences. Tables are great and all but sometimes I just don’t understand how it works. Like why is thyme Venus and air? I want to be able to work with native and wild plants (in my garden) of the mid USA so this is a skill I would like to develop.

Additionally, is there a good book on doing correspondence for individual deities? I am working on my theurgy so having a good idea of incense and such would help.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

Hello all of you interesting folks. Through the various strange turns of life I have become interested in the Arbatel. I have had other projects but am currently reading it (Joseph H. Peterson translation) and plan to read it again more slowly in the future. I had originally been excited to read it along side the Arnemancy podcast and see how a pagan/hermeticist modified it, but from the looks of it that project is defunct.

As such I come before you all with some simple questions (only 4, not 7, I apologize)

1. What pre-work/reading/practices do you recommend for success. I have been meditation and had done some scrying practice (non summoning, just concentration, never actually invoked btw).

2. What preparations to you recommend? For example I was thinking about fasting and making the sigil myself (starting at the hour and day the previous week),

3. What modifications have people done? I am not a follower of Jesus or the god of the trinity (no beef though). I do appriciate some of the wisdom of the bible but I also find that in all religions. I am a pantheist druid. I would find it insulting to Jesus to pray to him without being a follower. What modifications to the prayers have any of you done? How successful was it?

4. What Olympic Spirit is recommended to start with? My goal is more to have a 'experience' and to learn more about the nature of Nature & the Divine.

Thank you all for your time.

I have been dissatisfied with my sigil craft. I think it boils down to my native language - english. Which is not to say that English is bad, but rather it doesn't feel special. It is the language of my bills and grocery adds, I am overwhelmed with useless english. I want a sigil to feel special - magical if you will.

I have considered translating into a different language or just letter substitutions with the numerous magical alphabets floating out and around internet spaces.

That also made me feel dissatisfied.

Then it struck me, why not construct a substitution cypher alphabet of your own? One specifically made with sigils in mind that I can construct around the symbolism and ritualism I am attracted to (for me Druidry, abstract art, astrological days/hours).

So far it makes rather interesting art that I enjoy. I am still prototyping and revising, still trying to figure out ways to pour more and more and more of my practices into it until the system itself oozes with the magics of my heart.

Still, I cannot help but to assume this is not a original idea. Has anyone else done this? I would love to hear more about your processes? The upsides and the downsides? The unexpected pitfalls and delights?

Thank you.

I have noticed that ‘sigils’ are fairly diverse, onto becoming less of a technique and more of a class of operations. The two most known is the ‘standard’ letters into symbols, charge, destroy. Which in itself has more attached (auto fish, subliminal ala Rune Soup). Then the hyper sigil ala Grant Morison and simplified to the black book by Aiden Wachter.

Recently I was giving Libre Null / psychonauts a glance and found the mantra. Which I am thinking about trying.

What other forms of sigils are out there to try out my fellows?

So, I have been incorporating planetary hours into my practice to good measure. However I got one problem- time management. As in some tasks I have been trying feel pretty hard to fit into the time.

I do a bit of cooking magic and there is no way even having things premeasured to through a good bread loaf together in the time limit. I am sure making a whole amulet or a freaking sword would also be a problem.

How do you folks go about it? Or am I misunderstanding something.

So I have been intrigued by theurgy and Martinism has come up a few times. The history seems interesting and like the teachings might be worth while.

Well it turns out there is a lodge in the city I live in which compounds the intrigue.

Have any of you explored Martinism or are members? I won't ask you to reveal secrets or anything but what have you gotten out of it that you couldn't say, read in a book? What have you gotten out of it?

I am not interested in talking to demons nor angels. However the Elementals sound like they are the practical beings I would want to work with.

What is in your all opinion on the most effective method? What grimoire or book would you recommend I read?

I have tried search online but alas between video games, magic the gathering, and Dungeons and Dragons the search results are poised against me.

Dearest Wiccan Cousins,

I am on a journey of (Revival) Druidry and the birth of wicca comes from the same ‘brew’ so to speak. I have sought an answer among many to understand the elements that both traditions call upon and their symbols. For all I have found answers in history save one.

Why the heck is Earth listed as symbolized as green?

It makes intuitive sense but historically not so much. For much of history it is black (Greek & Agrippa), yellow (India and China), or various browns (Golden Dawn). Then sometime between the collapse of the Golden Dawn and the births of revival/lodge Druidry and Wicca it goes green as far as I can tell. I am just trying to pin point the first bit of literature where this happens if only so I can cite it in my brain and move on. It just bothers me that in list after list of correspondences this is repeated but I cannot find when this switch actually happens, and historically it is relatively recent.

I will note – I don’t mind it, I just am deeply interested in the history. I find knowing the history of a symbol makes that symbol more powerful and meaningful. I have tried looking through the literature and I keep coming up short. I can understand the switch from the actual color of soil and rock to plants (though I would argue plants contain all elements like animal and fungi). I just wish I could find the first appearance of this in text.

Thank you for any assistance you can give.

Dear People of r/Jung,

I am starting my journey of learning about Jung's work for a personal project and I ran into something that I cannot find good, credible sources on. I keep finding references to Jung's Four Color Energies as parts of personalities (Cool Blue, Earthy Green, Sunshine Yellow, and Fiery Red). This seems similar to Galen's temperaments but I do think Jung criticized those?

I was hoping you all could point me in the right direction on this subject as far as what Jung actually said and in what documents? Instead of all these websites claiming the that knowing the 'Four Color Energies' will change my life and all that nonsense.

Thank you.

This is a safe place to discus you deconstruction of your reconstructionist neo-pagan leanings.

Please feel free to share in this judgement free zone.

Shall I begin? I was a Kemetic guy with the Kemetic orthodoxy through all of my twenties. It felt so right and good. I still love egyptology. However bit by bit my faith fell away. It felt like all of our work was more about feeding our intellectual ego that we were achieving something true and grand.

Then we barely kept our temple going and then we lost it. That colossal failure plus feeling things were going stagnate also contributed to doubt after doubt. I then slowly but steadily drifted into atheism for a long while.

Now I a crazy ass revival-druid dirt wizard who is going to mix and match patheons as his heart desires.

I have noticed that ‘sigils’ are fairly diverse, onto becoming less of a technique and more of a class of operations. The two most known is the ‘standard’ letters into symbols, charge, destroy. Which in itself has more attached (auto fish, subliminal ala Rune Soup). Then the hyper sigil ala Grant Morison and simplified to the black book by Aiden Wachter.

Recently I was giving Libre Null / psychonauts a glance and found the mantra. Which I am thinking about trying.

What other forms of sigils are out there to try out my fellows?

I have been studying the elements since, well, they are the things that make up the world (metaphysically at least). Pretty good place to start and also I like history so this has been a fun puzzle. I have figured most of it out at least to my satisfaction.

Except color – this topic vexes me. In most modern works we have the Yellow = Air, Red = Fire, Blue = Water, Earth = Green. Nice, pretty, mostly primaries plus green. Except the history of all this is anything but so simple.

As far as I can tell most western elemental symbolism descends from a mix of Empedocles borrowing from Persia with Aristotle, Hippocrates, and Galen really fleshing it out. By the Greek understanding of light it should be Fire is White, Air is Red, Water is Yellow, and Earth is Black which also matches the humors & alchemy. I feel like this is somewhat the same in Agrippa in the humor section but he also in the elemental color section where I think we get the switch where Fire become Red, Air becomes White or blueish, and Water is Blueish.

We then move to John Dee who is told by Angels Fire – Red, Air – White, Water – Green, Earth – Black for the watchtowers. Which is all fine and good, I am not going to argue with angels. Now the Golden Dawn folks took John Dee’s and Agrippa and smooshed them together with some early Egyptian romanticism to get Air – Yellow & Purple, Fire – Red & Green, Water– Blue & Orange, Earth – Black & White (and also Browns). I do not quite understand the color flashing concept and honestly the Golden Dawn just isn’t my bag (good for others, not my taste). However, most modern Occult practices have descended from or were influenced by them. I think that Air just simplified to just Yellow though I have yet to find a good reason why Air was assigned Yellow in the first place. Fire is Red, Water is Blue so those are intuitive. How Earth became Green rather than staying Black or Brown I cannot find for the life of me; though I have some pet theories all are fairly inadequate.

Most of this is just me showing my work for my actual questions:

1)       Why is Air symbolized by Yellow?

2)       Why, who came up with, and when did Earth become Green?

I feel like I am missing some critical steps in my understanding. Though, to be honest, I feel like this should all be common knowledge. Book after book I see these color correspondences repeated but never the deeper explanation or history. It has come to really bother me.

(PS, I actually like the modern color combos, I just want to understand the history and reasoning)

Hey, so long ago I seen pictures of an ancient Egyptian god that was a ram but with a crown on the horns with many other Egyptian deities heads as part of the crown. Another was I think Heka but also with a crown of many deific heads.

This is all very visually similar to depictions of Bes Pantheos or Tutu, but not exactly the same. I can’t find them anywhere now, and they were so intriguing. I have been searching but just can’t seem to find them. So I would appreciate the help.

Hello folks, I have a questions I have been struggling with for a while. In both Wicca, witch craft, and lodge decedent druidry the elements usually have these corresponding colors: Air = Yellow, Fire = Red, Water = Blue, Earth = Green. Does anybody have a origin for this particular arrangement? I thought it might be the humors or golden dawn but neither of those match up exactly. I am really interested in the history, given the time period it has to have boiled out of when the original Golden Dawn blew up and their books published leading to other groups including Wicca and Druidry boiling up from the ashes.

So I have been doing some Druid practices for a while now and been working with classic elements . I can find or logic out most of the associations but… the directions: east - air, fire - south, west - water, and earth - north, I just can’t find a reference for before it shows up in the golden dawn stuff? Does anyone know where this comes from? Also I thought maybe the colors comes from the humors but it doesn’t match well, Fire and Water are duh, and earth as green is okay (honestly orange for brown is more intuitive), but why is air yellow instead of like, purple? Who decided all this? Is there a classic reference I just seem to be missing?

Any help is appreciated because I am stumped?