u/Umir_Comics

All in their base forms!

In Jed McKay's Avengers run, I think Wanda and Thor are often portrayed as either equals or with Wanda being above! This will be focusing on only things that happen in this run as Thor and Wanda's scaling gets FAR more complicated if we included stuff from their solo runs around this time.

Avengers (2023) #4

While fighting an entity using ghosts manifested from Wanda's own fears, one of them takes the form of Chthon and says she's the most powerful of all the Avengers, that she could kill them all if she wanted to (and has)

Avengers (2023) #4 (again)

As all the other Avengers fight their new opponents, Sam and T'Challa talk about whats happening and how they haven't heard from Thor. Sam says if this new group can bother Thor that'd be a problem, then T'Challa says it's more concerning if they can stand up against Wanda, implying being able to do that could make them even stronger. He also says out of all the avengers, Wanda's the only one who truly gives him pause.

Avengers (2023) #9

big one!

Avengers are fighting a group called The Twilight Court. Made by Kang to be his version of the Avengers.

TL; DR all of the Avengers are fighting a member and going relative or losing to the TC, then they switch opponents and start winning. Wanda's the one who got Thor's opponent and she seems to be equal to or above her!

 

Elaborating more, narratively this is meant to be a fight the Avengers need teamwork to win as shown by almost every member either stalemating or losing to the opponent they face. To be precise

Captain America vs. Lancelot. Sam has somewhat of an upper hand due to landing a strike on her and her struggling to land a hit on him due to him flying away later!

Thor vs. Galehaut. We see Galehaut laughing during her fight with Thor and asking him to strike again as she blocks a hit from Mjolnir.

Black Panther vs. Parsifal. T'Challa refuses to give up but is fated to lose since Parsifal's power is to win any fight if his cause his just and the fight is fair. T'Challa is also the first to request for an enemy swap.

Scarlet Witch vs. Artur. Wanda appears to be restraining him, but her magic is just getting absorbed and making him stronger since he wears the armor of Chthon.

Iron Man vs. Bedivere. Bedivere manages to see Tony despite his cloaking and the two of them fangirl over each other’s armor. They begin sword fighting and going equal, equal enough Tony is the one who sets in motion the plan for the Avengers to swap. "We need to shake it up! We're too evenly matched with our dance partners!"

Vision vs. Mordred. Vision lands a hit and claims due to his stamina; he'll win due to her tiring out first.

Captain Marvel vs. Bercilak. Bercilak doesn't seem to have any attacks that can hurt her, but since he can redirect anything, she can't hurt him either.

So overall, ignoring Thors fight: 2 Avengers have somewhat of an upper hand, 2 are going even/stalemating, and 2 are likely going to lose. Since we never get a sign Thors doing particularly well in his fight, and Tony claims all of them are evenly matched with their enemies, I think it's safe to say he was going relative to Galehuat! (Galehuat was also meant to be Kangs version of Thor)

 

Then they all finally switch their opponents and win either through countering the new opponent, like Vision being able to phase through Artur’s armor, or off guarding them like Thor suddenly electrocuting Mordred. Wanda however gets Thor’s opponent and fully stops a strike from her, stating her magic is much older than Galehaut’s. Usually, the older a form of magic is, the stronger it Is in marvel. Obviously not always true, but I think it is in this case since I’m not sure why Wanda would mention it otherwise.

And since every other Avenger beat their opponent, I think it’s safe to say Wanda is at least equal to Galehaut.

Avengers (2023) #10

Okay that was long, luckily this last one is pretty simple. Thor and Wanda pull up to Nightmare’s realm and he’s being an asshat, so Wanda reminds him he’s being addressed by the All-Father and the Living Darkhold, so he should remember he’s being addressed by equal powers.

 

Conclusion

I think with all of this, it’s fair to say Wanda and Thor are highly relative in this run with some arguments for Wanda being above! Notice how I said in this run because both of these two are kinda weird from stuff in their solo series about them holding back or being nerfed or xyz around this time. We don’t have the time to get into that and honestly, I doubt Jed McKay even knew about them!

Reminder that Quicksilver has really good scaling to his sister!

Okay Flash stans I see your lips salivating… I’m going to need you to promise NOT to use this to say Flash negs Wanda and all marvel heroes, okay? Okay.

Also this post will be slightly better if you know about Wanda’s transformations but I’ll try not to make it necessary!

 

So Quicksilver in my point is one of the most underrated Marvel heroes. Whenever Wanda and Quicksilver are in a 2v2 match-up on r/MvDC he’s always said to be the weak link, even to the point her trying to keep him alive is why she wins.

I’m here to argue that he actually has really good scaling to his sister and it’s shown pretty consistently!

 

 

Okay to start us off, does this even make sense? Pietro’s a guy who runs fast and Wanda can bend reality itself, can they even be relative?

Yes and we know how! It’s been established that Pietro is just like Wanda in that his potential is without limit, both he and Wanda embody the Red Queen Hypothesis and will constantly adapt and grow for each new challenge. He’s also just the science half to Wanda’s magic. (This scan also showcases that Quicksilver currently is faster than he was before so pretty please don't bring up years old anti-feats for him thanksss)

Basically, Wanda and Pietro both have no potential cap so whatever level one reaches, it’s possible for the other to reach or surpass.

 

Okay so sure it’s possible, but do the feats suggest so? I think so yeah! Starting with pre-griever stuff

Phases through and one-shots an enemy who grabbed Wanda and no-sold her fire attack

Did you know Pietro can phase by the way? Not everyone knows that!

Battles Wizard with Wanda

Here he dodges multiple attacks from The Wizard, tanks a point-blank fire blast from him (does go into the water soon after though) then builds up the momentum to one-shot him with a strike.

And just before Pietro one-shot him, Wizard was fighting Darkhold Wanda and was tanking hits from her just fine! It was established Wanda needs to be in her Darkhold form to fight Wizard as earlier she couldn’t even dent his forcefields in base. And I do think Quicksilver is above or relative to the Wizard here even if they 1v2’d him since Wanda says “Our deaths are beyond your talents” to Wizard which I take as her saying both she and Wanda would beat him in a 1v1, although I could see someone disagreeing!

Oh by the way the reason Wizard was so strong in this arc was he was getting buffed by The Griever. Speaking of….

 

 

The Griever fight

Okay there are three big moments here

Wanda vs. Griever round 1

In her Darkhold form, Wanda attacks Griever and gets casually blocked and hit away. Then Griever disintegrates her with a single blast. It’s later said in the story Griever was also holding back her power during this part!

Griever vs. Quicksilver (+ Polaris)

Quick note before the fight even starts, Griever refers to Pietro as “The briefest of all mayflies”. She refers to mortals as mayflies and brief is a synonym for quick, so basically, she’s saying Pietro is the Quickest/Fastest mortal!

But I think Pietro’s showing here is really good! Especially since while this is all we see of it, It’s happening alongside the other events of these issues (Wanda trying to revive herself and Darcy going to get Hexfinder) so the actual length of the fight was even longer.

Starts with Pietro dodging one of her blasts, afterward he does get caught running around and need to be saved by Polaris distracting Griever. But once his attention is turned to fighting Griever exclusively he performs much better and is seen dancing around her hits being in 3 places at once from her perspective. After a while of doing this (remember there are several pages of Wanda’s stuff between these two moments) she does nearly tag him twice, the second time being stopped by Polaris grabbing her sword.

But I do think it’s important to note Grievers sword here is not her standard gear, she started using it in this arc and loses it in the next issue, and without that increased ranged that attack wouldn’t have come closer to Pietro.

It’s here when Griever finally starts to unleash her full power making a giant energy blast. But Quicksilver is still able to react to this by running up a wall and jumping to tackle Polaris out of the way. Not to mention he actually gets at least partially hit by this attack and seems mostly fine, remember a lesser version of this casually killed Darkhold Wanda!

Overall, I think Quicksilver was shown to be significantly faster than Griever and was okay after getting grazed by a stronger version of the attack that one-shot darkhold Wanda. And since he’s so much faster it’d be hard for a swordless Griever to do anything but graze him anyway.

Quicksilvers assistance in Wanda vs. Griever round 2

This fights long so we’ll be focusing on what Quicksilver does. Basically, after coming back to life Wanda fights Griever in her newly empowered pink form and does a lot better.

But the important part is Quicksilvers assistance by running really fast and hitting Griever so hard it scatters her essence (with help from Wanda’s hex). But they talk about the speed necessary to do this beforehand.

We don’t know how fast Quicksilver needed to be, but his response was “Are you mad? No one is that fast.”. Quicksilver is able to break his limits and reach this level of speed, but the important part is that he’s not just breaking his limits. As far as he knew, literally no one could move as fast as he was during that moment, despite knowing, fighting, and being friends with many of marvels fastest characters he still thought that level of speed wasn’t possible before he achieved it.

Secondly, I’d like to talk about this page again, here not only does Pietro outright deny Grievers claim that he’s inferior to Wanda, but he also says “Wanda and I rise together.” Now I could be overthinking this, but I think this is saying not only do he and Wanda both have the same potential, but when one grows the other will too. Which is helped because in this very arc Wanda achieved a new level of power she thought impossible, and then literally pages later Quicksilver achieved a new level of speed he thought impossible. So, I think even post Griever narratively these two are meant to be relative!

 

So, what’s this all mean?

Is Quicksilver dead even to Wanda as a combatant? … sadly not haha. Due to having more solo stuff, being an active Avenger, and writers generally hyping her up a lot more, she just has more feats on this level as well, less jobbing, and abilities that Quicksilver hasn’t shown an answer to like revival. However, I 100% do think as of right now they are relative, not because Wanda is weak but because Pietro is strong!

HES CONTRIBUTES NOTHING TO SHOW IN LIKE 3 SEASONS

Complete with one of my old agenda posts!

Blue Aquaman and Sorcerer Supreme Wanda!

It pains me to have to debunk my girl, but I'd never want to seem willing to lie for Wanda and I don't think many people realize this.

People often use Wanda's fights in Sorcerer Supreme #1 and #5 to say she defeated Dormammu. But, It's stated multiple times Dormammu's still weakened. If you don't know, he had a big fight with Doom Supreme and The Avengers in One World Under Doom and it seems like he's yet to recover. That's why he's here!

In #1 he was looking for a way to bring himself back to full power in earth, thats why he says he's going to get his rejuvenation elsewhere when he leaves.

And in #5 it's stated by Clea he's wounded, and at the end of the issue we get the same statement from Dormammu that he's leaving to rejuvenate himself somewhere else.

I'm not saying these aren't impressive feats for Wanda, or that Wanda isn't above Dormammu. But I do not think these encounters are usable for it!

If I had to guess we'll get a Wanda vs full power Dormammu encounter eventually and this is foreshadowing for when he'll finally get his power back. No idea how that'll go if it happens! But yeah maybe dont use these encounters so much!

Hi! This post won’t get much attention, but it is important for my Wanda scaling, and It’d be a lot to repeat every time it’s relevant, so I’m making it a post I can link to instead! I should also note that these comics are very interpretive, intentionally so of course! But not everything is outright said, so I’ll be saying my theories too but try to make it clear what’s a fact and what’s my speculation!

This post is about Wanda’s transformations and how strong each is in relation to each other. Starting with…

 

1. Base

Very simple, this is the state Wanda is in 99% of the time! Her appearance is as expected, It’s the form she’s in for almost all her Avengers stuff, big events, etc etc. BUT the important part is that this is a suppressed Wanda.

(Slides 1-3, Scarlet Witch (2023) Annual)

Wanda fused with the Darkhold (Chthon’s book of spells) and must constantly devote power towards preventing its evil from escaping. This is explicitly brought up as something that weakens her. People say, “She’s never been more vulnerable” and “Controlling the book, (…) has left you weak.”

1.5 Chthon + Darkhold suppressed

Related to above, there was also a period where Chthon was also trapped in Wanda’s soul and required energy to keep suppressed, mentioned by Agatha in the same scans. However, this stopped being case when he was freed from her soul in Scarlet Witch (2024) #4. This was her base state for a while and it’s basically the same as the one above, so I thought I’d just mention it here!  While we know it’s weaker than base, we can’t really tell by how much as once she’s free of Chthon she never makes a reference towards being strong cause of it. I mostly ignore this form haha

2. Darkhold Unleashed

As I said before, Wanda is constantly suppressing the power of the Darkhold/Chthon, but she can safely unleash some of it for a temporary time, entering a form I like to call Darkhold Unleashed.

(Slides 4-8, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver #2)

In this form Wanda is significantly stronger, the most direct comparison is that she couldn’t even dent Wizards forcefields in base but completely destroyed them immediately in this form. She also had the upper hand fighting Wizard later in this story! So, I’d say DU>>Base

There is some contention about if Wanda can still access this form. Before using it the narrator says “You still hold a devil inside, locked beneath an endless nightmare. A primal power always howling to break free from within. The Wizard has given you no choice but to unleash its fury” This could be saying she’s also drawing power from Chthon here if he’s the “devil” here, and since she doesn’t have Chthon in her anymore you could argue she can’t use this still.

I’d disagree though, I think the Darkhold was the main source of power since right after Wizard says, “The nuclear ghosts of the True Darkhold released.” And Wanda did seemingly use this form again later after Chthon was let loose

(Slides 9-11 The Vision & The Scarlet Witch (2025) #4)

While it looks different, she is taking a more demonic form and actively mentioning the Darkhold so I’d say this is probably the same thing? Just redesigned. Maybe it looks different due to no Chthon who knows. A possible interpretation is that without Chthon, Wanda can use more of Darkhold safely and so her base form is now closer to the level of Darkhold Unleashed!

 

3. Pink Form

The one we know the least about! I’m just gonna speedrun all canon information on her pink form right now in 3 sentences

After Griever killed her, Wanda spoke to The Queen of Nevers and learned her core power was possibility. Then she came back to life pink and performed much better against the Griever. She later spoke to The-Powers-That-Be looking the same way.

(Slides 12-16, Scarlet Witch (2024) #1-3. Bluesky. And TV&TSW #1)

And that's everything! A fan asked the writer for specifics on this state and then the writer didn't really answer any of the fans questions which is pretty funny!

Now time for what I think. I think after realizing what her core power was, Wanda just got a massive buff since she now understands what truly makes her strong. And all the pink is just her really amplifying her body a lot!

As for whether she can still use this, I don’t see why not! She used it as recently as last year. As for why she doesn’t more often, there’s either still a risk of unleashing the Darkhold if she uses too much power for too long, or this form drains energy quickly so it should only be used when needed.

There are other interpretations though so feel free to read these comics yourself and make your own!

4. Sorcerer Supreme

This is more to clear up a misconception, I don’t think Sorcerer Supreme Wanda is any stronger. Some people act like she is, but I think that comes from people thinking she’s being buffed by the Vishanti like the others when she’s not. She’s acting as Sorcerer Supreme without the Vishanti’s permission, and they hate that it’s a major part of that story.

She does have The Eye of Agamotto and Cloak of Levitation now though which let her do a few more things easier! But (at least as far as I know) it’s not a raw power buff.