Why are GOOSE and TUNE analysed as having the same vowel?

So goose and tune both have [uː ~ uw], but tune, as well as many (most? all?) other long-u words, originate from Norman French through Middle English /yː/ which evolved into [juː]. They merged into words that used to have [ɪw] and [ew] like new and threw. Later the [juː] was affected by yod-dropping and yod-coalescence in different dialects, so you get [nuw ~ njuː] and [tuːn ~ tjuːn ~ t͡ʃuːn] which only merges with goose/toon words under yod-dropping, since toon is also [tuːn].

My question is why is the [j] in the TUNE set (and I guess in CURE as well if you split it from a hypothetical TOUR set) is considered part of the onset consonant cluster and not a rising diphthong in the nucleus. Is the reason etymological, phonological, something else? It's odd to me that long U represents a two-phoneme sequence when other diphthongs like /o͡ʊ/ and /a͡ɪ/ are treated as a single vowel phoneme?

E: just realised I posted this to the humour sub, meh. Hopefully you guys can still help but feel free to jerk instead

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u/rederspeker — 1 day ago

A small reform for Portuguese, part II: splitting stress and nasality

In my previous post I discussed orthography changes that would allow Portuguese to encode vowel quality in unstressed syllables and get rid of the consequently redundant circumflex accent at the same time.

The rules can be summarised as follows:

1. The open-mid front vowel /ɛ/ is written ⟨ai⟩.

2. The open-mid back vowel /ɔ/ is written ⟨au⟩.

3. The closing diphthongs starting at /a/ are written ⟨ae ao⟩.

4. The closing diphthongs starting at /ɛ/ are written ⟨aie aio⟩.

5. The closing diphthongs starting at /ɔ/ are written ⟨aue auo⟩.

6. The closing diphthongs starting at /e o/ become ⟨ei eo oe ou⟩.

7. Hiatuses after ⟨a⟩ are indicated with a silent ⟨h⟩.

8. The open-mid central vowel // is written ⟨a⟩ everywhere.

9. The open central nasal vowel /ã/, present in European dialects, is written ⟨aan⟩, as in paraamos "we stopped" vs paramos "we stop".*

*Since the last post I realised I had this backwards: marking every instance of stressed closed /a/ might seem more intuitive for consistency, but it's the most common or "default" execution of nasal /ã/, and considering they're in complementary distribution in most dialects and the open [a] is the "higher energy" counterpart meant it made no sense to double the letter for closed nasal ⟨a⟩.

Today's patch notes will add a few new rules with a justification: the tilde, primarily used to indicate nasalisation, also pulls stress towards it: ficarão /fi.kɐ.ˈɾɐ̃w̃/ vs ficaram /fi.ˈka.ɾɐ̃w̃/. As these examples also show, it means ⟨am⟩ has two different readings: in ambíguo it sounds like ⟨ã⟩, while in ficaram and other third-person plural past tense endings it sounds like ⟨ão⟩ without marking stress. This is a positional-morphological rule: ending words with am as a morpheme causes the ão reading without drawing stress, while other positions, including word-final morpheme-internal like in imam, are read as ã. There is contrast in these graphemes, too: imam "imam" and ímã "magnet" are an example.

The last example of the double-reading argument also displays the stress-pulling problem of the tilde that makes the ⟨am⟩ rules necessary at all: ímã is one of a select few words in Portuguese that contains two diacritics. That's because words like acórdão "accord", acordam "they wake" and acordão "settlement (aug.)" rely on these stress and morphology rules to remain distinct and be read correctly. Two of these are pronounced the exact same but written differently and they rely on exceptions to the main orthography at the same time (am being read differently when it's the past tense morpheme; words containing two diacritics), and the third one relies on the tilde pulling stress towards it which is also a secondary property to nasalisation.

The proposal is to do away with the tilde and use an ⟨n⟩ at the end of the syllable instead. This is already standard and seen in multiple words in combination with every vowel letter: âncora, ênfase, além, fim, marrom, um. The example words would be spelt imán (currently imam), iman (currently ímã), acaurdaon (currently acórdão and acordam), and acordáon (currently acordão).

The stress orthography rule can also be adjusted slightly: while it currently states that words ending in vowels or ⟨s⟩ default to stress on the second-to-last syllable, exempting nasals unless part of an inflected word, we can now include all nasals under the paroxytone rule and require an accent like other words if stressed in the final syllable: iman as above, prautaon (EU)/prauton (BR), botáon, Butáon, algodáon etc.

While we've focused on the quirks of ⟨ão am an ã⟩, the same rule can apply to ⟨ãe õe ui⟩ with little elaboration and matching them to the oral vowels they sound like:

  1. mãe → maen

  2. limões → limoens

  3. muito → muinto

  4. põe → poen

Finally, the distinction between ⟨m n⟩ at the end of syllables (m before labials and at the end of words, n otherwise) can be collapsed into ⟨n⟩ without affecting etymology since they were in complementary distribution already:

  1. cem → cen

  2. apoiam → apauean

  3. sim → sin

  4. ombro → onbro

  5. rum → run

While less of a clarity gain than the circumflex rule from yesterday, I think this still assists with consistency by matching the stress rules between nasal and oral vowels in orthography without any loss in etymological or phonetical information.

With this change the vowels start to look significantly different than the standard, so I'm open to feedback just as much as before! Trying to expand the sample texts for comparison:

Garota de Ipanema

Aulha que coesa maes linda, maes cheia de graça

Ai aila, menina, que ven e que passa

Nun doce balanço a caminho do mar

Moça do corpo dourado do saul de Ipanema

O seo balançado ai maes que un pohema

Ai a coesa maes linda que eo já vi passar

Art. I da Declaraçáon Universal dos Direitos Humanos

Todos os seres humanos nascen livres e iguaes en dignidade e direitos. Saon dotados de razáon e consciéncia e deven agir en relaçáon uns aos outros con espírito de fraternidade.

Os Lusíadas, III song, stanze I and II

Agaura tu, Calíhope, me ensina

O que contou ao Rei o ilustre Gama:

Inspira imaurtal canto e vauz divina

Neste peito maurtal, que tanto te ama.

Assim o claro inventor da Medicina,

De quen Orféo pariste, au linda Dama,

Nunca por Dafne, Clície ou Leocotohe,

Te naigue o amor devido, como sohe.

Poen tu, Ninfa, en efeito meo desejo,

Como meraice a gente Lusitana;

Que veja e saeba o mundo que do Tejo

O licor de Aganipe caurre e mana.

Deixa as flores de Pindo, que já vejo

Banhar-me Apaulo na água soberana;

Senáon diréi que tens algun receio,

Que se escureça o teo querido Orfeio.

Memáurias páustumas de Brás Cubas, Machado de Assis (excerpt)

Algun tenpo hesitei se devia abrir aistas memáurias pelo princípio ou pelo fin, isto ai, se poria en primeiro lugar o meo nascimento ou a minha maurte. Suposto o uso vulgar seja começar pelo nascimento, duas consideraçóens me levaran a adautar diferente máitodo: a primeira ai que eo naon sou praupriamente un aotor defunto, mas un defunto aotor, para quen a canpa foe outro berço; a segunda ai que o escrito ficaria assín maes galante e maes novo. Moesáis, que tanbén contóu a sua maurte, naon a pos no introeto, mas no cabo: diferença radical entre este livro e o Pentateoco.

The new system codified

These rules are added to the ones from the last post:

10. The nasal vowels are written ⟨an en in on un aon aen oen uin⟩ in every position, and may be accented to mark stress.

11. Words ending in ⟨n⟩ where it indicates a nasal vowel do not default to stress on the last syllable, and instead are treated as part of the vowel grapheme. Thus the rule that stress falls on the last vowel that is not the last grapheme of the word unless the word contains an acute is maintained.

Again keen to hear your thoughts, and sorry for ruining a perfectly fine script!

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u/rederspeker — 8 days ago

A small reform for Portuguese - getting rid of mid vowel ambiguity

A small reform for Portuguese - getting rid of mid vowel ambiguity

Portuguese has a very phonetic spelling system with justifiable etymological artifacts. It's an orthography I appreciate a lot, and more the more I study it and learn why certain things are the way they are. However, as a migrant from one Portuguese speaking country to another and a big linguistics nerd, I've noticed there's a little bit of unpredictability to unstressed mid vowels when it comes to whether they're open or closed.

telha /ˈte.ʎɐ/ "roof tile"

velha /ˈvɛ.ʎɐ/ "old woman"

folha /ˈfo.ʎɐ/ "leaf"

molha /ˈmɔ.ʎɐ/ "it wets"

This is remediated in marked stressed syllables with the acute vs circumflex accent distinction: é and ó are always open, and ê and ô are always closed. However, these only appear when a word doesn't follow the stress rules of the orthography (i.e., stress generally falling on the second-to-last syllable, or the last syllable with certain consonant endings). To add insult to injury, unstressed syllables are completely unmarked everywhere, and the orthography wouldn't support marking them anyway since the accents double as stress markers.

My proposal has thus two motivations: one, to help people such as myself better predict mid vowel quality in accents that keep them separate in unstressed syllables and to assist learners with using the correct one in stressed and unstressed syllables alike; two, to get rid of the circumflex on the same sweep, since the acute accent's job becomes solely to mark stress.

The vowel inventory becomes spelled as such:

  • â, closed stressed a → aa
  • é, open e → ai
  • ê, closed e → e
  • ó, open o → au
  • ô, closed o → o
  • u and i remain as they are

Fronting diphthongs:

  • ai, ae → ae
  • éi, open ei → aie
  • êi, closed ei → ei
  • ói → aue
  • oi → oe
  • ui → ue

Backing diphthongs:

  • au, ao → ao
  • éu → aio
  • eu → eo
  • ou → ou
  • iu, io → io

But what does that mean for triphthongs and hiatuses, you ask? They will need some work too:

  • Rio /riw/ remains Rio
  • *maio* /maju/ would now be read as /mɛw/: respell it *maeo* like the diphthong it starts with
  • *céu* would conversely be respelled as *çaio*
  • *fui* becomes *fue*
  • *possui* "it possesses" becomes *possue*, while *possuí* "I possesses" becomes *possui* (words ending in i, u are typically stressed on the last syllable, and *ui* no longer reads as a diphthong)
  • Hiatuses formed by vowels that make up a digraph are split by H: *sair* → *sahir*

All of this matches neatly with the current standard spelling of nasal diphthongs, funnily enough:

  • oral *au* corresponds to nasal *ão*
  • *ai* corresponds to *ãe*
  • *oi* corresponds to *õe*

Nasal vowels themselves follow the same pattern, although they're mostly merged, making the digraphs unnecessary:

  • Nasal ⟨a⟩'s default disposition is closed. For consistency, we spell closed nasal A with a double ⟨aa⟩ as well, such as in the first person plural present tense conjugation suffix -amos (becomes -aamos).
  • In dialects that retain the distinction between the two nasal a qualities, open stressed nasal A is spelled ⟨a⟩, as in the first person plural preterite conjugation suffix -ámos (becomes -amos). ã remains as-is.
  • em
  • om
  • im
  • um
  • ão, aom
  • õe
  • ãe

In addition, although it's nothing to do with the rest of this proposal, *muito* should be spelled *muinto*.

I'm a big fan of medium-sized reforms that can be felt in the average text but still leave the language's aesthetics mostly intact. I believe this is a good first step in a series of reforms I'm making purely for fun.

> Pae Nausso, que estaes nos Çaios > > Saantificado seja o Vausso naume; > > Venha a naus o Vausso reino, > > Seja feita a Vaussa vontade, > > Assim na tairra como no çaio. > > O pão nausso de cada dia nos dae hoje; > > Perdoae-nos as naussas aufensas, > > Assim como naus perdoaamos a quem nos tem aufendido; > > E não nos deixeis cahir em tentação, > > Mas livrae-nos do mal. Amém.

If there's any gaps let me know. Criticism is also welcome of course. Thanks for reading all of this nonsense!

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u/rederspeker — 9 days ago
▲ 2 r/porto

Futebolada ao fim de semana

Boas,

Estou a procurar uma malta para jogar à bola casualmente aos fins de semana. Tenho 29 e não dou uns toques há pelo menos 10 anos mas gostava de voltar pela atividade. Ouvi que há futeboladas pickup no Parque da Cidade mas não percebi se normalmente vão as equipas definidas ou se um cepo qualquer seria aceite. Encontrei também a app Omby e parece-me boa mas não sei se quem por lá marca joga mais a sério e vai-se chatear com um jogador dos mais maus. Estou na zona da foz mas posso-me deslocar facilmente. Onde é que recomendam?

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u/rederspeker — 30 days ago
▲ 19 r/agender

To you, what does it mean to be non-binary?

Hey all, I'm 28M and have recently started thinking about what it means to be non-binary.

I'm male-presenting and have never faced much issue with my presentation other than having been obese in the past and having a hard time showing off my body. I am heterosexual and have never really thought deeply about this, other than I've never really conformed to the traditional manly stereotypes if being strong/into sports or whatever. But I know none of that is what it means to be a man, although I can't put my finger on what really *is* part of being a man.

I've never had issues with gender. People always identified me as male, other than the occasional thinking I was a girl from behind due to long hair, and I never really cared either way. I'm pretty secure in that sense, but I was never sure if it could be called being "secure about my masculinity" so much as "not caring about my gender presentation".

Recently I started thinking about whether that is something I should express more outwardly. I've always liked makeup, long hair, painted nails and other "feminine" style choices of modern Western society, but that is only really feminine in the eyes of a very conservative portion of society which I really don't care about catering to (maybe outside of work).

So, if I don't care about my presentation or what set of features I have that "earn" my description as a "man", is that enough to say I don't conform to my gender? Is not caring about my other others' gender beyond whether their presentation interests me, and having a specific sexual preference, enough to say I feel gender-nonconforming? Is it really just about what "vibes" I feel like I give off, or is it something deeper that I don't feel?

I would appreciate all sorts of answers, but if people have had similar experiences not feeling like they've "earned" masculinity but neither a queer label due to not suffering with the usual struggles, that'd be great.

Thanks to all who chime in!

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u/rederspeker — 2 months ago

Use y for STRYT

Title. Y's cyrrent job can be dyn entirelie bie I and it's arguablie the onli legitimatelie ynpredictable spelling due to the goose/foot and put/cut splits occyrring simultaneousli.

I apologize to all the Irish, Yorkies and Mancunians who will have to memorize a meaningless spelling distinction for the benefit of L2 learners across the globe. I promise to refrain from proposing any standardization yf fir/fern/fur or poor/pour as compensation for damages.

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u/rederspeker — 3 months ago