u/sonofzen1

There’s four perverted doctrines most Christians hold too that make God a moral monster:

1. OSAS and Sola Fide:

• If this is true then everyone who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel is destined to hell which leads me to my second point:

2. Eternal conscious torment in Hell:

• This is the belief that God needlessly sustains the existence of sinners (who can’t exist without Him) in order to torture them for all eternity and make them suffer. They can suffer for 100000000000 years and still not be 1 second closer to ending their misery. Anhilationism makes more sense historically and is a viable option but most Christians default to believing in a God who delights in the suffering of the wicked even though the Bible makes it perfectly clear he doesn’t

3. Penal substitution:

• Many believe in a God with a blood lust and a wrath that can’t be satisfied unless an innocent person (like Jesus) or an animal unjustly suffers on our behalf. Not only is that not how forgiveness works in the OT (God forgives the ninevites without a sacrifice) it turns the beautiful story of Christ giving him self up out of his abundant love for us into a terrifying nightmare about a vengeful God who demands needless suffering before he will forgive anyone

4. No divorce:

• No divorce under any circumstances enables abusers to keep abusing their spouses. Sometimes divorce should be tolerated in cases where divorce is the lesser evil. It’s no less evil but it’s not adultery in the way remarriage is adultery. Also Jesus wasn’t a legalist himself. The commands God gives in the Bible are meant to draw us closer to him not to keep us trapped. Yet the Pharisees thought the opposite and were obsessed with following the Law for its own sake and turned it into a yoke of slavery and many modern Christians have the same pharisaical mindset

I’m not convinced it does. It does say all living things have a ruach and a nephesh, or spirit and soul, but I dont know of anywhere where it identifies our spirit with “the self” or who we are. Humans are composite creatures which cannot exist without body, mind, and soul, just like a heart can’t exist without a body. The spirit isn’t what you are, it’s the energy that helps you live. When you die therefore, the energy God gave you in order to live goes back to him. At that point it really is just lights out which I think is what the OT teaches. In the OT death is described as a dark shadowy underworld where people continue on their existence as “shades.” Personally I believe you could go to heaven but you would just be transformed into another substance, into an *elohim* with all your memories, but that doesn’t mean you are an Elohim right now. I think that assumption is dangerous because it leads to Gnosticism and the belief that the body God gifted us with is detestable

Would love to hear y’all’s thoughts though! No personal attacks please. Just scripture 🙏

I hear a lot from LDS who bear their testimony about why they know the restored gospel is true and it all comes down to what the church has done for them most of the time. They say their life is better because of the church because it gave them their family, their community, their friends, their spouse, and a sense of purpose of belonging. But what if the church stopped being those things for you? Like what if the church fell short do those expectations and people in it started abusing their power and betrayed you. Would you remain LDS then?

If hell is such a central piece of the gospel of Christ how come Paul never talks about ECT (eternal conscious torment) in Hell?

The Bible repeatedly describes the world using what appears to be in line with ancient cosmology.

1. The earth has edges or corners and cannot be moved

Isaiah 11:12

“He will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”

Revelation 7:1

“I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth…”

A sphere does not literally have corners.

Psalm 104:5

“He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.”

1 Chronicles 16:30

“The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.”

These passages depict the earth as fixed in place and resting on foundations.

2. The sky is described as a solid firmament

Genesis 1:6–8

“Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters…”

The Hebrew word is raqiaʿ. The firmament separates the waters below from the waters above.

Genesis 1:14–17

The sun, moon, and stars are placed in the firmament.

That is significant because the heavenly bodies are described as being inside the firmament, not beyond it.

3. There are waters above the heavens

Genesis 1:7

“God separated the waters under the firmament from the waters above the firmament.”

Psalm 148:4

“Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens.”

4. Heaven has windows or doors

Genesis 7:11

“The windows of heaven were opened.”

Genesis 8:2

“The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were closed.”

Malachi 3:10

“I will open the windows of heaven…”

These passages treat heaven as having openings through which rain or divine blessing can pass.

5. The earth has pillars

1 Samuel 2:8

“For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s.”

Job 9:6

“He shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.”

Psalm 75:3

“It is I who keep steady its pillars.”

6. Heaven has pillars

Job 26:11

“The pillars of heaven tremble…”

7. God’s throne is located above the sky

Isaiah 66:1

“Heaven is my throne.”

Psalm 11:4

“The Lord is in his holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven.”

Ezekiel 1:22–28

Ezekiel sees a firmament above the living creatures and a throne above that firmament, with a humanlike figure seated upon it.

8. Snow, hail, and wind come from storehouses

Job 38:22–23

“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail?”

Jeremiah 10:13

“He brings the wind from his storehouses.”

Psalm 135:7

“He brings out the wind from his storehouses.”

9. Lightning is sent out by God

Job 38:35

“Can you send forth lightning, that it may go?”

Psalm 135:7

“He makes lightning for the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses.”

10. Stars are identified with heavenly beings

Job 38:7

“The morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”

The parallelism associates the “morning stars” with the “sons of God,” meaning heavenly beings.

Judges 5:20

“The stars fought from heaven…”

Daniel 8:10

The little horn casts down some of the host of heaven and some of the stars.

Revelation 1:20

“The seven stars are the angels…”

Revelation 12:4, 9

The dragon sweeps a third of the stars from heaven and is later identified with Satan and his angels.

My point is not necessarily that every one of these statements must be read literally. My point is that it is not always obvious from the text alone which descriptions are literal and which are symbolic.

I feel like whatever interpretive reasoning is used to classify all of these passages as metaphorical or symbolic could also be used to argue that the Genesis creation account is symbolic

The Bible repeatedly describes the world using what appears to be in line with ancient cosmology.

1. The earth has edges or corners and cannot be moved

Isaiah 11:12

“He will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”

Revelation 7:1

“I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth…”

A sphere does not literally have corners.

Psalm 104:5

“He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.”

1 Chronicles 16:30

“The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.”

These passages depict the earth as fixed in place and resting on foundations.

2. The sky is described as a solid firmament

Genesis 1:6–8

“Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters…”

The Hebrew word is raqiaʿ. The firmament separates the waters below from the waters above.

Genesis 1:14–17

The sun, moon, and stars are placed in the firmament.

That is significant because the heavenly bodies are described as being inside the firmament, not beyond it.

3. There are waters above the heavens

Genesis 1:7

“God separated the waters under the firmament from the waters above the firmament.”

Psalm 148:4

“Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens.”

4. Heaven has windows or doors

Genesis 7:11

“The windows of heaven were opened.”

Genesis 8:2

“The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were closed.”

Malachi 3:10

“I will open the windows of heaven…”

These passages treat heaven as having openings through which rain or divine blessing can pass.

5. The earth has pillars

1 Samuel 2:8

“For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s.”

Job 9:6

“He shakes the earth from its place, and its pillars tremble.”

Psalm 75:3

“It is I who keep steady its pillars.”

6. Heaven has pillars

Job 26:11

“The pillars of heaven tremble…”

7. God’s throne is located above the sky

Isaiah 66:1

“Heaven is my throne.”

Psalm 11:4

“The Lord is in his holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven.”

Ezekiel 1:22–28

Ezekiel sees a firmament above the living creatures and a throne above that firmament, with a humanlike figure seated upon it.

8. Snow, hail, and wind come from storehouses

Job 38:22–23

“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail?”

Jeremiah 10:13

“He brings the wind from his storehouses.”

Psalm 135:7

“He brings out the wind from his storehouses.”

9. Lightning is sent out by God

Job 38:35

“Can you send forth lightning, that it may go?”

Psalm 135:7

“He makes lightning for the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses.”

10. Stars are identified with heavenly beings

Job 38:7

“The morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”

The parallelism associates the “morning stars” with the “sons of God,” meaning heavenly beings.

Judges 5:20

“The stars fought from heaven…”

Daniel 8:10

The little horn casts down some of the host of heaven and some of the stars.

Revelation 1:20

“The seven stars are the angels…”

Revelation 12:4, 9

The dragon sweeps a third of the stars from heaven and is later identified with Satan and his angels.

My point is not necessarily that every one of these statements must be read literally. My point is that it is not always obvious from the text alone which descriptions are literal and which are symbolic.

I feel like whatever interpretive reasoning is used to classify all of these passages as metaphorical or symbolic could also be used to argue that the Genesis creation account is symbolic

They’re shady over there and completely incompetent. If you want to avoid several thousands of dollars in repairs never go there. Last time I took my car in for an oil change my engine started smoking and both my radiator and oil were completely drained. They also left trash (napkins and other stuff) inside the engine block. My windshield wiper fluid had totally evaporated too because it wasn’t sealed correctly. I had to completely replace the radiator and other parts (at another place) which cost me $2500. It was the Kwik Kar on Main but the other locations are just as bad. My friend had the same issue when she took her car in for an oil change at another location. About a month later she had an engine failure and is looking at $6000+ in repairs. Seriously FUCK these guys. They’re negligent and criminal and all their branches need to be shut down for the amount of people they screwed over

I’m 23 going in 24 and holy shit is it fucking brutal trying to date. I’ve live in Dallas. Let me just describe all the metas I’ve tried before yall start giving me recs:

Dating apps: Horrible, abysmal, never again. 90% of the time my matches ghost me after a while. It was also super deleterious to my mental health because of all the ghosting and window shopping. I did everything right too. Amazing photos I personally shot with my dslr. Edited the lighting and contrast and everything, picked out nice clothes. Used real photos of me doing social stuff with friends. Mixed a few candid selfies in with more professional looking photos. Paid for premium and for boosts. Only swiped at the optimal time of day/week. Got plenty of matches but few bites. Even when I did get a date I got catfished by people who were posting photos of their prime freshman in college self. Or they were very flirty over text but super weird in person. I used a lot of the main dating apps including the niche ones. All in all very low ROI + not worth the mental toll

Church YA groups: Either everyone is taken, the population skews male heavy, no community to speak of, everyone is a bot in church mode and so are closed off to meaningful connection, cliquish, still treat you like a stranger despite knowing them by their name for 6 months +, somehow too old and too young for that crowd, or all of the above. I tried just about every young adult community in my backyard and that’s consistently what I find. Really there’s no worse feeling than being treated like you’re invisible after being a regular volunteer for the longest time. My turn around time at these places is about 6 - 9 months before I try to forget that ugly chapter in my life. And before you accuse me, no, I don’t strictly go just for the dating prospects. I go for the community too and consistently leave disappointed on all fronts

Dance classes: Boring ash. Typically male heavy. I have two left feet and they very often go too fast and cause me to embarrass myself. People are rude sometimes. All around miserable experience + I don’t even like dancing.

Katy Trail: people don’t want to chit chat with strangers on their run

Coffee shops: perhaps the best meta out of the ones I’ve tried since people are much more willing to talk and listen. Im hybrid so I work remote some of the time which is why this meta is perfect for me since I have a legitimate reason to be there. Problem is it’s really hard to break the ice with someone you have almost 0 shared context with

Out in the wild: really just need a miracle at that point

Prayer: speaking of miracles, yes I have prayed. I feel like this is the kind of advice people give when they really don’t have any answers. Just because you met your wife in Bible college at 19 doesn’t mean you’re qualified to talk on dating so sybau. And honestly if you’re saying my dating life is so cooked I need a miracle to make it work then you can take a hike (even if you’re not wrong)

I’m 23 going on 24 and holy shit is it fucking brutal trying to date. I’ve lived here my whole life too. Let me just describe all the metas I’ve tried before yall start giving me recs:

Dating apps: Horrible, abysmal, never again. 90% of the time my matches ghost me after a while. It was also super deleterious to my mental health because of all the ghosting and window shopping. I did everything right too. Amazing photos I personally shot with my dslr. Edited the lighting and contrast and everything, picked out nice clothes. Used real photos of me doing social stuff with friends. Mixed a few candid selfies in with more professional looking photos. Paid for premium and for boosts. Only swiped at the optimal time of day/week. Got plenty of matches but few bites. Even when I did get a date I got catfished by people who were posting photos of their prime freshman in college self. Or they were very flirty over text but super weird in person. I used a lot of the main dating apps including the niche ones. All in all very low ROI + not worth the mental toll

Church YA groups: Either everyone is taken, the population skews male heavy, no community to speak of, everyone is a bot in church mode and so are closed off to meaningful connection, cliquish, still treat you like a stranger despite knowing them by their name for 6 months +, somehow too old and too young for that crowd, or all of the above. I tried just about every young adult community in my backyard and that’s consistently what I find. Really there’s no worse feeling than being treated like you’re invisible after being a regular volunteer for the longest time. My turn around time at these places is about 6 - 9 months before I try to forget that ugly chapter in my life. And before you accuse me, no, I don’t strictly go just for the dating prospects. I go for the community too and consistently leave disappointed on all fronts

Dance classes: Boring ash. Typically male heavy. I have two left feet and they very often go too fast and cause me to embarrass myself. People are rude sometimes. All around miserable experience + I don’t even like dancing.

Katy Trail: people don’t want to chit chat with strangers on their run

Coffee shops: perhaps the best meta out of the ones I’ve tried since people are much more willing to talk and listen. Im hybrid so I work remote some of the time which is why this meta is perfect for me since I have a legitimate reason to be there. Problem is it’s really hard to break the ice with someone you have almost 0 shared context with

Out in the wild: really just need a miracle at that point

Prayer: speaking of miracles, yes I have prayed. I feel like this is the kind of advice people give when they really don’t have any answers. Just because you met your wife in Bible college at 19 doesn’t mean you’re qualified to talk on dating so sybau. And honestly if you’re saying my dating life is so cooked I need a miracle to make it work then you can take a hike (even if you’re not wrong)

Edit: thanks for the genuine responses. For everyone else please stop judging me when you don’t know me

I really need a bingo card for all the responses I’m getting:
“It’ll happen when you least expect it!”
“Huh? Dating was easy for me. It should be easy for you”
“Maybe you’re the issue 🤔”
“Maybe you’re just repulsive to women 🤷‍♂️”
“Incel”
“Just work on yourself”
“You’re too desperate”
“Stop looking/stop trying”
“You need to try harder to make people like you”