u/wlovesunny

I thought I was 4w5 for so long but now I'm REALLY unsure and I'm thinking I'm actually 4w3. Can anyone help me please? Sorry for the long description.

I think I'm SP4, but SO4 could also be an option. I see very strong characteristics of both 4w3 and 4w5 in myself—my wings seem balanced.

I identify with the 3 wing because I would say I am very hardworking, resilient, and persevering. I don’t do things halfway—I always do the best I can. I don’t give up easily, and even when I am not good at something, I keep doing the best I can. I am a perfectionist, but maybe that is my 1 fix. I have also created and keep evolving an image of myself to become who I want to be. For example, I am an introvert and shy, but I noticed that I didn't attract people easily, and if I did nothing, no one would ever talk to me. That's when I realized that as much as I feel shy, in a new place nobody knows me, so I pretended to be an extrovert and made friends with introvert outcast people like me. Almost like "fake it till you make it". I am always improving parts of my personality to become who I want to be, while staying true to who I am. My style is alternative and I don’t care what people think of it because I know I like it and there are people like me that will like it too. It's part of the image I created for myself. I also want to be good at everything even though I know it's not possible to and I'm a natural leader, even if I'm shy, people usually rely on me.

BUT I wouldn't say I care much about getting attention or winning, just about doing my best—I am not really competitive. For example, when I was in art high school, the teacher said we all had to do the same drawing, and then they would vote for the winning poster for a big event that would be exhibited all over the city. I didn't care much about winning, I just did what I enjoyed: art. In the end, I won, and on the day of the event, I found out they called me to the stage during a moment I was away for a few seconds. I didn't know they were going to call me, and when I found out I missed the opportunity, I was devastated for not seeing my work recognized and losing the chance to stand out even though I'm also shy about it? Idk I like when people recognize and see me in a way. Another thing I don't identify with the 3 wing is that although I care about my image in a way and worry about my identity being understood, I HATE everything that is futile/fake and superficial. I don’t care that much about appearances. I also don't consider myself dramatic AT ALL, and I would hate for people to even think that of me—that's a part where I don't identify with the 4w3 stereotype.

I also identify a lot with the 5 wing. I have a very strong logical side, although I am clearly more emotional. I need my alone time VERY much to recharge, and I reflect a lot on everything; I feel too much and I also overthink and analyze too much. I am assertive but also very cautious, and I often worry and accumulate knowledge until I understand what I need to and feel safe to act. I study my emotions and reflect deeply on them. I am also more reserved.

I thought I was 4w5 for so long but now I'm REALLY unsure and I'm thinking I'm actually 4w3. Can anyone help me please? Sorry for the long description.

I think I'm SP4, but SO4 could also be an option. I see very strong characteristics of both 4w3 and 4w5 in myself—my wings seem balanced.

I identify with the 3 wing because I would say I am very hardworking, resilient, and persevering. I don’t do things halfway—I always do the best I can. I don’t give up easily, and even when I am not good at something, I keep doing the best I can. I am a perfectionist, but maybe that is my 1 fix. I have also created and keep evolving an image of myself to become who I want to be. For example, I am an introvert and shy, but I noticed that I didn't attract people easily, and if I did nothing, no one would ever talk to me. That's when I realized that as much as I feel shy, in a new place nobody knows me, so I pretended to be an extrovert and made friends with introvert outcast people like me. Almost like "fake it till you make it". I am always improving parts of my personality to become who I want to be, while staying true to who I am. My style is alternative and I don’t care what people think of it because I know I like it and there are people like me that will like it too. It's part of the image I created for myself. I also want to be good at everything even though I know it's not possible to and I'm a natural leader, even if I'm shy, people usually rely on me.

BUT I wouldn't say I care much about getting attention or winning, just about doing my best—I am not really competitive. For example, when I was in art high school, the teacher said we all had to do the same drawing, and then they would vote for the winning poster for a big event that would be exhibited all over the city. I didn't care much about winning, I just did what I enjoyed: art. In the end, I won, and on the day of the event, I found out they called me to the stage during a moment I was away for a few seconds. I didn't know they were going to call me, and when I found out I missed the opportunity, I was devastated for not seeing my work recognized and losing the chance to stand out even though I'm also shy about it? Idk I like when people recognize and see me in a way. Another thing I don't identify with the 3 wing is that although I care about my image in a way and worry about my identity being understood, I HATE everything that is futile/fake and superficial. I don’t care that much about appearances. I also don't consider myself dramatic AT ALL, and I would hate for people to even think that of me—that's a part where I don't identify with the 4w3 stereotype.

I also identify a lot with the 5 wing. I have a very strong logical side, although I am clearly more emotional. I need my alone time VERY much to recharge, and I reflect a lot on everything; I feel too much and I also overthink and analyze too much. I am assertive but also very cautious, and I often worry and accumulate knowledge until I understand what I need to and feel safe to act. I study my emotions and reflect deeply on them. I am also more reserved.

Here is some brief context:

• I started reading tarot about a year ago in secret.

I made my own deck (I printed it through a website that had all 78 cards).

• I usually do readings only for myself and occasionally for close friends.

• I noticed that the tarot frequently uses the Queen of Cups to represent me, and the readings I do are usually related to my love life – I have never dated anyone.

As you know, there are usually pairs in tarot, like the King of Pentacles and the Queen of Pentacles. I always found it strange that there was no King of Cups in my deck, but I thought it was normal and that it was only included in some decks. Only now, after a year, I searched it better and realized that the King of Cups was a card that was actually missing from my deck—the only one out of 78 cards, almost as if even in the tarot world, my "partner" was missing too.

I printed and made my King of Cups and added it to the rest of the cards, but something very strange has been happening. I use the jumper cards method, and ever since I added it, the King of Cups has jumped out in EVERY single reading I do. It has already jumped out about 7 consecutive times in different readings, which is extremely unusual. Sometimes I put it back in the deck, and it jumps out again. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?

I am trying to figure out my friend's Enneagram. I can't decide if she is an E4—and in that case, she is definitely an SP4—or if she is an E9. I'm having trouble figuring out if her E4 characteristics are due to her Fi or not.

• She's an ISFP and is introverted but has strong values but she doesn't usually express what she feels very much and can be more reserved about it, even though she is sensitive.

• She is very authentic with her alternative style and would like to see people being more unique and having different styles.

• When I ask her deeper questions, she sometimes says she is too lazy to think about it. She's also easy-going, can be a bit of a procrastinator and avoid conflict.

Once I told her to tell me songs whose lyrics she strongly identified with, because she loves that kind of question, and she named two: the one she identifies with most is "Planet Telex" by Radiohead, and in second place, "Miss World" by Hole—maybe that helps. I asked her a few questions where she had to choose between two options. I will send the questions and write down her answers.

1. Relationship with suffering and pain

Self-Preservation 4 (sp4) swallows the pain: This subtype is known as the "4 who doesn't cry." They feel a huge emotional intensity and a deep pain (typical of Type 4), but they endure everything in silence. They suffer with pride, striving to be strong and not burden others.

Type 9 avoids pain: Type 9 does not want to feel pain or discomfort. They prefer to "numb" themselves through distractions, routines, or by keeping their mind busy with light things. The 9 lowers their own intensity to maintain peace.

Her answer: I think I'm more of a 9.

2. Focus on identity vs. Adaptation

The sp4 wants to be unique: Their big quest is for identity. Even in silence, they want to be true to themselves and refuse to mold themselves to please others. They value their own depth and differences.

The 9 wants to connect: Their big quest is for harmony. The 9 merges with the environment and with other people's opinions to avoid conflict. They prefer to "blend into the crowd" rather than stand out, so as not to threaten the peace of the group.

Her answer: Definitely 4

3. Conflict management

The sp4 is tenacious: If something goes against their values, they endure the pressure and stand firm. They are not afraid to carry heavy burdens alone.

The 9 is a peacemaker: They give in, minimize problems, and pretend "everything is fine" just so the environment doesn't get tense. They prefer to ignore the elephant in the room.

Her answer: I think 9. But it's hard, I feel like I'm a part of both and not completely one of them.

I also saved some quotes from things she saved on Pinterest that might also show a bit of who she is:

• I'm either really excited or really annoyed when someone has the same obsession as me

• Do you ever feel like you're the only fan of something in your entire city?

• Damn... I kinda want to ignore all of my academic responsabilitys

• I'm the founder of the "I suck at keeping the conversation going but really like talking to you club"

• Sorry for not keeping in touch I have literally nothing to say

• I HATE looking basic

• I suck at comforting

• "What do you do for a living" I do my best

• I might not be the prettiest girl in the room but I will always be the most awkward

• Can we PLEASE normalize teenagers being more weird and experimental?

• Normalize being too afraid of talking to people

• I love when a hyperfixation starts devouring my soul

• Me if being distracted easily and wasting time was a crime

• Can we normalize ignoring people when you're in a bad mood

• People who ask "can I call you" are so sweet. Like obviously you cannot but so sweet

• Why am i so bad at explaining things?

• I don't understand it and I don't want to. Let me stay confused

• Me after saying I'll do it tomorrow (I won't)

• Uh so you are ALWAYS like ALWAYS welcome to vent to me, but just a disclaimer I CANNOT comfort someone. I SUCK

• I get jealous really easily but not like an angry vengeful jealous more like a really sad lonely jealous because everybody likes everybody more than they like me and I really really don't blame them

Can anyone help me identify which Enneagram type she might be please?

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Could someone help me figure out my attitudinal psyche? I'm having a hard time trying to type myself because all my positions seem quite flexible

L (Logic)

How much time and energy do you spend researching or studying? Do you like researching and studying, and why?

It depends. During my school years, I studied a lot because I have always been very ambitious and hard working when it comes to academics. I always pushed myself to do my best and was never satisfied until I had given my maximum effort. Outside of school obligations, however, I can spend a great deal of time studying a specific topic, such as typology, purely for entertainment, and I do not get tired of it. If a subject genuinely interests me, I can research it for a very long time.

How many of your own opinions do you form? How often do you do actual thinking on your own, rather than just finding an existing answer?

I would say quite frequently. One thing I noticed during my teenage years was that when watching movies or TV shows, everyone seemed to have the same opinion, even when it did not make much sense to me. I would stick to my own opinion and had no problem expressing it when asked. However, in areas where I do not feel confident, I notice that I tend to develop my views by listening to others, and I usually only express my opinion when I am certain about what I am saying.

How often do you talk about concepts or facts? Why exactly do you talk about it, and what do you like talking about most?

Honestly, I am not entirely sure how to answer this. I would say somewhat often, but not excessively. I enjoy talking about deeper topics and hearing different perspectives, although I usually discuss those subjects with people I feel close to.

Do you struggle with thinking about things by yourself? Does this bother you, and how much? How well do you handle criticism from others when it comes to your logical concepts or factual knowledge?

I do not think I struggle with thinking things by my own. I have been told that I do not handle criticism particularly well and that I can be somewhat inflexible regarding my logical concepts, and perhaps that is true. However, I think that happens because I usually only state my opinion when I am certain about something, and because I find criticism about things I cannot change unnecessary.

Did you enjoy answering the above questions? Would you say this is a major part of who you are or your identity? Was it boring? Is it a difficult topic?

Yes, I enjoyed it and find it interesting to reflect on these topics. It is definitely part of my identity because I am someone who thinks a lot, although that is relative, since every concept I use ends up being part of who I am, whether I like it or not.

E (Emotion)

Do you consider yourself a creative person? What do you do that is creative?

Absolutely. Creativity defines me; I am a very artistic person. I draw, paint, play the piano, write, sing, and love taking photos. Art and creativity are a huge part of who I am.

How do you feel about expressing your own emotions? Are emotions part of your decision-making at all? How much of a role do they play in your decisions?

I have no problem expressing or recognizing my emotions. I am very aware of what I feel, although I am also a reserved person. I am sensitive, but I do not usually vent to others, and very few people have seen me cry. I would not consider myself dramatic. Emotions are part of my decision-making process. To feel good about a decision, I need to feel emotionally at peace with it as well.

How much effort do you put into creating a positive emotional influence on other people? Do you try to do this at all? Do you like exploring the emotions or creativity of others?

Definitely a lot. I am a very empathetic person and attentive to other people's feelings. One of the things I enjoy most is exploring and observing what others feel and understanding why they are the way they are. I have often been the “therapist friend,” and I make an effort to ensure people feel comfortable around me.

Do you feel uncomfortable with the idea of sharing your emotions? Do you struggle with knowing exactly how to connect with others on a deeper and more emotional level? Do you struggle with knowing how to go about dealing with and handling your emotions?

No, I do not feel uncomfortable with it. I do not struggle to connect with others on a deeper emotional level, and I am very good at handling my emotions. I would only feel more uncomfortable if I vented, and that only happens with people I trust. I don't want them to think I'm oversharing.

Did you enjoy answering the above questions? Would you say this is a major part of who you are or your identity? Was it boring? Is it a difficult topic?

I enjoyed answering these questions. They were very easy to answer, this is an important part of who I am, and it is not a difficult topic for me.

F (Physics / Foundation)

How much time and energy do you put into your physical health? Do you try new healthcare or self-care products often? How often, and what kinds of products do you like trying?

I dedicate some time to it. I go to the gym, although more out of obligation than enjoyment, because I want to stay healthy. I do not practice self-care very often, nor do I experiment with many products, but I do maintain a routine to stay healthy. I have tried some products that were recommended to me, and if I liked them, I continued using them.

How much do you care about your physical appearance, including fashion choices, or decorating the physical environment for comfort? Do you like exploring the physical environment (food, nature, architecture, etc), or doing physical activity?

I do care about those things. I like feeling beautiful and wearing clothes that represent who I am. My style is somewhat unique and alternative. When decorating a space, I always try to choose what is most comfortable while also being aesthetically pleasing to me. I also love trying new foods—my friends say that I “eat everything and like everything.” I enjoy observing nature and architecture because I find it beautiful. I do not like physical activity at all—I hate it—but I do it anyway.

Do you like talking about your personal tastes often? How often do you explore the personal tastes of others? What about your own health or the health of others? Do you like creating or exploring comfortable environments with others?

Yes, I love it. I think personal tastes are a major part of our identity, so I find it interesting to analyze and discuss them.

Do you stress about what people will think regarding your personal tastes? Do you prefer to follow fashion trends in worry that people may judge your own style? Do you worry about being sick or in poor physical health often? Are you able to take criticism about your health, aesthetic choices, personal tastes, or physical appearance?

In the past, I cared about that, but nowadays I really do not. If I am happy and feel good in what I am wearing, I do not care what others think. There will always be people who like it and people who do not. I do worry about getting sick and about my physical health, mainly because of past experiences. I had to undergo surgery due to being sick and needing to take medication every month, and I also suffered a very serious injury during my teenage years that took a long time to recover from. Those experiences had a significant impact on me. I do not like criticism about my and other's physical appearance because it often only makes people feel insecure. The same applies to personal tastes. However, I do not mind criticism or advice regarding my health if it can genuinely help me.

Did you enjoy answering the above questions? Would you say this is a major part of who you are or your identity? Was it boring? Is it a difficult topic?

It was neutral, but not hard. I would say that my personal tastes and style are a significant part of my identity, while the rest is not as important.

V (Volition)

Do you know how to get what you want? How much effort do you put into figuring out how to get what you want? Do you just take action and get started, do you plan, do you research or try to get advice from others?

I usually know how to achieve what I want. I am a very dedicated and hardworking person, and I tend to do a lot of research and planning before making a decision. I also like to listen to other people's opinions, but I think I handle that process well. After that, the rest comes more naturally.

How often do you feel motivated to work on your future? How often are you busy working on a goal for the future? Do you prefer routine, or often fall into routine? Is your routine making progress on a goal? What makes you change your routine? What makes you start working on a goal?

Very often. I think a lot about my future and I am ambitious when it comes to it. I usually give my best in everything I do because I want to achieve the success I envision for myself. I like routine because it helps me stay organized, and I dislike last-minute changes. I also constantly try to improve myself as a person so that I can become closer to the person I want to be.

Do you like guiding or helping people reach their goals? What kinds of goals do you prefer to help people with? Are you a leader, or do you prefer to work in groups where you're an equal? How and when do you take charge, if ever?

Yes. Although I do not particularly enjoy being the center of attention, I often end up being the leader in almost every situation I find myself in. People naturally trust and rely on me. I am very good at distributing tasks and making sure everything is done properly. I do not mind helping others achieve their goals, especially since people frequently come to me for advice. However, there are times when I wish I did not always have to lead and could simply rest. It can be exhausting when everyone constantly relies on you and you never get the chance to relax. Still, I often feel that if I do not take charge, nothing gets done.

Do you overwork yourself? Do you worry that you might be lazy or that you aren't progressing quickly enough? Does it feel impossible to find the right method forward? Are you able to take criticism over your choices for working towards your goals? How do you respond to being challenged?

I would not say that I overwork myself to an unhealthy degree, but I always try to give my best in everything I do and I am quite perfectionistic about my work. I wouldn't be able to do a mid work knowing I could go better. I do not think I am lazy in general, except when it comes to cleaning and organizing things. I believe I am progressing at a good pace, and I tend to learn most things quickly. I do not mind constructive criticism regarding my goals and appreciate advice, but if the criticism is harsh, I can react poorly and become somewhat stubborn. I am not sure whether I particularly enjoy being challenged, but I do think it is a good opportunity to try new things and grow as a person. As long as it does not involve significant risks and I feel capable of doing it, I do not see a problem.

Did you enjoy answering the above questions? Would you say this is a major part of who you are or your identity? Was it boring? Is it a difficult topic?

Yes, I enjoyed it. I think this is an important part of my identity because our lives are shaped by the choices we make.