r/ANGEL

Oof 😭

We’ve got-

You’re Welcome: cue the tears but honestly I like this farewell for Cordelia and I’m glad we had that closure before the show ended (even though they didn’t know at the time, of course). I feel like she was finally Cordelia again even just for one episode. I’m even just referring to season 4, she seemed like she changed after she became part demon.

Why We Fight: Still** **not a fan of this episode. I don’t honestly get the point of it but oh well. Kind of a clunker from an otherwise solid season but they can’t all be winners.

Smile Time: ok people often talk about how funny this episode is, and it is, it’s also one of the creepiest episodes to me and I have trouble watching it 😂plus the ending knowing what comes next just 🫠I watched this season live so all the feelings came back to me when I saw the end of this again. I remember cheering when they finally got together.

Only to be gut punched by -

A Hole in the World: easily one of the best episodes of the series. I think everything that needs to be said about this episode has already been said. Again I just remember the gut punch of Fred’s death (one of the few TV character deaths to make me cry; she’s my favorite female Angel character) then the jump scare of Illyria at the end and having to wait a whole week to find out what was next was torture.

Edit: I will add - I LOVE Lorne in the episode. He is usually the pacifist but when he hit Eve I damn near cheered. His face when Fred sings. His offering to pray. Spike and Angel talking about “when” they save Fred. And Amy Ackers performance is stellar, same with Alexis Denisof.

I think her death hit me more because you spend the whole episode thinking “they’re going to save her, it’s going to be fine” only to watch her die in Wesley’s arms.

I'm curious: What songs would be good on a playlist for Angel as Angelus? I have two already: "Dan with the Devil-" Breaking Benjamin and "Before my Blackened Eyes," by Sparanza. If you have heard these songs, please let me know what you think. What other songs, do you think suit Angel as Angelus?

Given that Angel isn’t supposed to actually age but David naturally couldn’t do that, do you imagine David on AtS when you think of him becoming a father in S3 or does your imagination still stick with how David looked on BtVS?

In other words, in the Spider-Noir series, if they had cast David Cage as Spider-Man instead of Cage, would he have been a good Spider-Man?

I know there's been tonnes of novels, comics etc over the years (especially back when the show was airing).

I was wondering if there's anything out there like that which goes in to more depth/focuses on Doyle as a character?

I know the actor sadly died young so I can understand if there isn't anything. I just loved the character so much, I wish we could get more of him!

If they were reverted to their 17 year old selves, she would know what vampires are. And slayers and Watchers.

She first met Buffy when they were turning 16 so even if they were 16 she would know all about that stuff and recognise Angel.

This episode was HILARIOUS.

Also, Wesley has becone amazing! He became an actual rogue demon hunter! I knew he was going to improve, but WOW. Doesn't make up for what is going on with Cordy, but does give me someone to root for in place of her.

My only complaint: Wesley says to Lilah at one point 'I could care less'. If there is one particular gripe us brits have with American English, it is that phrase. No English man, no matter how long spent with Americans, would ever say it. If you could care less, it means you do currently care!

They're both Irish!

I wonder if there's anything thematic to that, maybe Doyle reminding Angel of his pre corrupted itself?

I know there's precious little Doyle screentime, but if we had some more, it would have been fun if they explored this connection.

( no season 2 onwards spoilers) why is it sometimes her premonitions can be down to the inch in location and other times as vague

I watched some episodes as a kid and now as a Buffy fan wanna watch the full Angel show. I have arrived at season 3 episode 22 and I hate that Cordelia is in love with Angel now. Also, why is everything so tragic? I can barely watch lol. I suffer.

Unpopular opinion: I actually think the reveal that Skip was manipulating Cordelia all along was one of the smartest ideas in Angel Season 4.

I know Season 4 is an absolute mess, and what happened behind the scenes with Charisma Carpenter was awful. None of that changes.

But if the alternative really was the original plan of Cordelia willingly turning evil and ending the season in a sword fight with Angel like a reverse version of "Becoming, Part 2," I'll take Jasmine possessing Cordelia every single time.

To me, Cordelia choosing evil would have been complete character assassination. This is a woman who spent three seasons growing from the shallow popular girl on Buffy into one of the biggest champions in the Buffyverse. She endured the visions, gave up her dream career, literally became part-demon so she could keep helping people, and then agreed to ascend because she genuinely believed she could do even more good. Having her suddenly decide to become evil on purpose would've thrown all of that development away.

I also liked that Skip turned out to be exactly what he looked like: a dangerous demon playing the long game. His friendly, laid-back personality was just an act, and the reveal that he'd been nudging Cordelia toward Jasmine's plan all along made him far more interesting than if he had just stayed the funny demon who popped in every few episodes.

Honestly, the whole "the big scary demon is actually just a regular Joe" twist had already worn out its welcome by Season 3. It stopped being surprising and started feeling like the default. I actually appreciated that Skip was a genuinely dangerous demon who wasn't secretly just another guy in disguise.

I also know the first three seasons clearly weren't planned as one giant storyline from the beginning, but the reveal almost makes me want to go back and rewatch "Birthday" looking for clues. Watching Skip tempt Cordelia with the life she always wanted, fame, success, and stardom in an alternate reality, takes on a completely different meaning once you know he's really grooming her for Jasmine's plan. Even if that wasn't the writers' original intention, it's a fun lens to view the episode through.

The possession also preserves Cordelia's legacy. She wasn't evil. She was manipulated by a fallen Power that used her body as a vessel after exploiting every sacrifice she'd made. That tragedy fits her character far better than "Cordelia just decided to go dark."

Season 4 still has plenty of problems, but this is one storyline I've always thought gets more hate than it deserves.

Until probably the second to last episode, I did not actually “believe” Fred was dead.

Straight up, I thought the series was kinda protesting too much about how she’s “actually gone,” and it was such a strange moment for a main character to die with only five more episodes of the whole series to go. Why would you establish a major new character so close to a series ending? Even upon seeing the intro actually change, I still legit thought the show was doing something similar to Brian Griffin’s death lol.

I’m just curious about what other’s thought. When you first saw the series, did you believe that Fred was dead, or were you in disbelief about it for far longer?