r/CRbydescent

Hello, I received three certified documents from the county where my relative naturalized: Declaration of Intention, Petition for Naturalization, and Oath of Allegiance. Which one should I send for apostille? Or should I send them as a group for one apostille?

Hi all! My great grandmother was born into a Slavonian family. I was told that her mother was ethnically Croatian and her father ethnically Serbian. Well I located her mother’s baptism record from Slavonia and.. she was orthodox. So she clearly would be considered a Serb from Croatia. Does this disqualify me from citizenship by descent in Croatia? I have one ship manifest where the clerk listed her as Croatian under the race or people category, but I fear the baptism record will override this. I’m aware that article 11 is supposed to be territorial but I’ve heard mixed info pertaining to people with a orthodox background. Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated!

I have a few documentation questions generally. Both of my great-great grandparents emigrated from what was then the Austrian-Hungarian empire in the early 1900s (probably 1905 for GGF and 1909 for GGM). One of the biggest things I'm having trouble finding is their actual place of birth! The documents I have found (largely through Ancestry.com via my universities subscription) have been vague (simply stating Austria or Yugoslavia depending on what was going on geopolitically at the time). I suspect this may largely be due to the fact that Ancestry mostly has indexes of these documents, but not the actual documents themselves.

I have no idea where to even begin to request their actual death certificats (I do have dates of death for both) or naturaliztion papers (I have "first papers" application date for GGF) which I am hoping will have more clear locations for their places of birth. I know they moved to Milwaukee, WI and basically stayed there the rest of their lives (living variously in little nearby villages like West Allis, Wauwatosa, etc.)

I guess I'm just feeling particularly overwhelmed because the family lore is that they were from Croatian/ Slovenian border towns, so I'm wondering if this is worth all this effort if it's only going to reveal that they were born in what is currently Slovenia! Especially because they listed "Slovene" (and German) as their native languages on various immigration manifests, census documents, etc. I'm mostly kept going by the (limited) hope that at least one of them might have been born in a Slovene-speaking part of what is now Croatia. Because Slovenia's citizenship process is much more strict and I would not qualify. My family has always considered ourselves to be both Croatian and Slovenian, but this renewed search into the ancestry has me questioning that!

The other overwhelming thing is that my GGF seemingly just threw letters at the ground and put that down for any and all of his paperwork. Sometimes his last name is spelled with a Y and sometimes with a J and sometimes it's a germanified version (think "chk" to replace the "k" sound in slavic languages or "tz" to replace the "c" sound) and sometimes it looks like a traditional slavic name. From the index of his marriage certificate, it looks like he used a nickname for his first name as well. (It's like he was thinking, nope! None of my ancestors are ever going back, let's make this the most complicated!) I know this is common, especially when it's someone else writing it down based on what he was saying like immigration manifests, but how do I pull the paperwork together to prove this is the same guy?

Maybe this is more venting than a question, but any advice or help in the right direction would be very appreciated!

Does anyone have a good genealogist recommendation? I’ve been searching, but most people/companies offer more of a full service package. I’m capable of doing the work and just need someone to physically locate a 1901 birth record in Slatina. I’ve located all other documents!

ETA: I have contacted the Osijek archives with no luck. I’ve also contacted the diocese, but have not heard back in a few months, and the central archive did not have the record.

New here. Will be applying with fam through LA consulate when I can get appt. Have spent last year getting docs and apostilles and just need translations. Starting to reach out to folks. I have heard from one vendor that connects US applicants to Croatian certified translators that digital scans are acceptable not the original hard copies. I can’t find confirmation of this. Vendor has sent me a quote that seems reasonable and I want to move forward. Anyone have good luck with CroatianByDescent? I am uneasy shipping all my critical documents to be translated but fine with digital copies. Hoping someone who has experience with this process can chime in. Thanks!

Hello everyone!

I have already located my Croatian ancestor's birth certificate in the Croatian State Archives in Split, and they already sent me a certified (stamped) digital copy, but I need a physical copy of the certificate to proceed with my citizenship application.

https://preview.redd.it/z67isweis96h1.png?width=659&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ae00b2f8d2e694b646a32a81d063e7660268aeb

I contacted a person in Croatia who provides these services, but I feel the fee they are charging simply to get the certificate and send it to me via DHL to Chile is quite high.

Does anyone have a contact in Split/Croatia who could help me obtain the physical certificate and ship it to Chile? Alternatively, has anyone been able to have the Archives send the physical certificate directly abroad?

Thank you very much!

My mom was born in present day Croatia in 1939. She has her original Domovnica from 1994 with a Croatian government stamp/seal. She has an original baptismal certificate with a stamp/seal from the Archdiocese of Zadar issued in 1994. It lists her as Croatian.

I have heard these don't expire because they have an official government/church stamp. I have also heard these certificates have to be issued within 6 months of your appointment at the Consulate. Which is true?

I'm in California.

I am seeing that people have needed ship manifests for NYC consulate. I have a certified copy of my relatives naturalization papers which has information on the ship and port of arrival but I cannot for the life of me find it in the National Archives or the Ellis Island passenger search. I have also submitted an order request with NARA in January with this information but the status remains "servicing". Does anyone have any advice or know of someone that would be able to look into this for me?

Hello all,

I am trying to help a friend of mind locate his great-grandparents birth & marriage records (between 1867-1903) from the Karlovac area. I know they were born in the Ribnik area, and married there as well.

Would the Karlovac State Archives be the place to look? Or the Catholic Church?

Thanks!

We have an appointment this coming Friday at the consular days in Sacramento. How should we dress? It's going to be 100 degrees so I'll die if I wear a suit and tie. Business casual for both of us? No one cares and wear shorts and flip flops?

Hello!

Trying to complete the "proof of emigration" by locating a passenger list. This ancestor would have left Croatia in 1904, not sure where they landed but settled in Pennsylvania. The family story is that he was an indentured worker to a farmer in PA so I assume he went there pretty immediately.

I am having major difficulty finding him on passenger lists, and it is an exhausting search! If anyone has any tips or links to passenger lists for 1904 I would greatly appreciate the help!

a related question: would a WW1 registration card count in this category as proof of emigration? He didn't serve (3rd wave of registration) but we have a digital copy of the card. Any thoughts? Thank you all in advance!

Applied in Sarajevo, I was told I'm going to wait 1-5 years? I thought it was usually 6 months to 24 months. Kinda confused but let's hope for the best!

Applied via LA in March 2024 so 26 months ago. Retained Croatian lawyer à year ago who will only write every 6 months with no follow up. “If you get a decision then it worked”. As he wrote last month we have to wait until November for next letter. They say they do not want to put undue pressure on the MUP. Does this sound normal? What have your experiences with a lawyer been? I expected a more proactive approach with knowledge and contacts within the ministry.

Hi all!

I located my grandparents birth records from the Croatian National Archive, and they sent me photocopies of them. Do these copies from the archive count? Or do I need to somehow get physical certified copies of them? Not sure how to go about it as I don’t have the originals! Let me know :) Thanks

This is where I got them from:
https://urldefense.com/v3/\_\_http://www.arhiv.hr/hr-hr/Arhivska-slu\*\*Aba/Arhivi-u-Hrvatskoj\_\_;xb4!!Mak6IKo!IUhhYEDXzcEFB-myvBDG8UmuVyY4xx9XB7nOPVVZRJMwO7VIHsvXfq\_YHb6kA9Hhqocj8nAlvMm7gW8BveLMlIEflYzm$

Can you go to any consulate? The Chicago consulate has not had any available appointments. They are not even answering emails. I visited in person, the office was empty and the guy working was a total jerk. Told me to send an email and had the worst attitude.

Hi everyone,
I am currently in the process of applying for Croatian citizenship as a member of the Croatian people (pursuant to Article 16 of the Law on Croatian Citizenship).
I have already visited the Croatian Embassy, but my request was orally rejected on the grounds that I did not provide evidence of my own "national declaration" in legal proceedings (e.g., old birth certificates or similar documents), even though my mother's status as a member of the Croatian people is indisputably proven by her birth certificate and a certificate issued by the registry office in Croatia.
I believe that, under Article 16, paragraph 3 of the Law on Croatian Citizenship, I am exempt from providing my own evidence of declaration, as proof of a parent's origin should be sufficient. However, I am facing difficulties with the embassy's interpretation. I have sent an official inquiry to ⁠drzavljanstvo@mup.hr⁠ requesting a formal interpretation, but I would like to ask if anyone here has experience with this situation:
Has anyone successfully obtained citizenship based solely on proof of their parents' origin, without prior personal evidence of national declaration?
How did you resolve the issue if you were rejected by an embassy for "lack of personal evidence"?
Do you have any tips on how to ensure the Ministry of the Interior (MUP) takes the inquiry seriously?
Any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Hello, looking to see if anyone knows of reputable Croatian language sites or people to reach out to! Thank you.

Hi All,

I have a question regarding a missing (important record). The line of descent and the facts are a little complicated, so I will try to make it as clear as I can. I've hit a record wall and don't know if it's time to stop the process altogether, or if I can use alternative documentation and explain the line of descent in my statement. I'll explain it below but TL;DR: If I cannot find a birth/baptism certificate connecting my Croatian ancestor to his son but do have newspaper articles stating he was the orphan of my ancestor's wife and that the ancestor and wife were married, is that enough? The ancestor and son have the same name. Please read on for the full story.

My Croatian ancestor Luigi was born in Dubrovnik (got his birth records from the diocese) and immigrated to New Zealand in the 1840s where he married Annie and died at a young age. Luigi anglicized his name to Louis. Annie and Louis have several children, including my next ancestor in line, also named Louis. Louis Sr. tragically dies young and Annie cannot afford to keep them, so all the younger children are sent to an orphanage, including little Louis. Annie dies a few years later. The issue: I cannot find a birth certificate or baptismal certificate for little Louis linking him to Louis Sr. I also don't have Annie and Louis Sr.'s marriage certificate. I have found baptismal records for the other children though and newspaper articles discussing Louis' death and Annie's life after.

I have the following which I hope would help prove the link but am unsure:

Several newspaper articles discussing the following (1) A brief obit for Louis discussing his death but not his children, (2) a newspaper article discussing Annie's death, stating she was married to Louis Sr and he died three years prior to her death (3) an article discussing Annie sending little Louis and the children to an orphanage because she was impoverished after her husband (not named) died.

I also have baptismal certs linking Annie and Louis as following other children (they couldn't find little Louis') and orphanage records for little Louis proving he was sent to there, but no parents' names are listed.

I also have a death cert for Louis Sr. as the father of several male children

I've tried every other avenue (including extensive emails with New Zealand churches) but I just can't find a birth or baptismal certificate for little Louis connecting him to Louis Sr. Is this enough or should I give up on trying to obtain citizenship?

Hello all,
I’m helping a friend with record-gathering for a potential Croatian Article 11 citizenship case through his paternal great-grandparent(s), and I would appreciate a sanity check on whether we are gathering the right documents.

Full disclosure: I am not Croatian myself, but German-American. I DIY’d my own German citizenship-by-descent case through a great-grandparent last year, so I have some experience finding and requesting legal/certified copies of records from this era. I’m trying to help him if I can, but I want to make sure I’m not applying the wrong assumptions from the German process to the Croatian one.

For context: All four of his paternal great-grandparents appear to have been Croatian. They immigrated to the United States around the turn of the 20th century and settled in the same American city. Thankfully, the family appears to have stayed in the same area for several generations, so the U.S. document search may be fairly contained.

Here is what we are trying to locate:
- Croatian baptismal/birth records for the relevant paternal great-grandparent(s)
- Ship manifests or immigration records showing arrival in the U.S., ideally indicating Croatian origin, ethnicity, nationality, or place of birth
- Civil or church marriage record of the great-grandparent(s)
- Civil or church birth/baptism record of the paternal grandparent
- Any naturalization records, or negative search results if no naturalization record is found
- Civil marriage record of the paternal grandparents
- Civil birth record of the applicant’s father
- Civil marriage record of the applicant’s parents
- Applicant’s long-form civil birth certificate
- FBI background check
- Apostilles and certified Croatian translations where required

A specific issue we may run into is that the paternal grandfather appears to have been born around 1906, before reliable statewide birth registration began. If no civil birth certificate exists, we are hoping that a county negative-search letter plus a certified Catholic baptismal record, supported by later civil records, might be acceptable.

Does this look like the right general document strategy for an Article 11 case? Are there any documents we should add, remove, or prioritize differently?

Any feedback would be appreciated. I’m decent at finding documents, but I want to make sure I’m helping track down the right things for the Croatian process.

Thanks!