r/DebateACatholic

Hi, I am an ex christian. Was a protestant from 17-34 with a heart for Jesus. Converted from a guilt enhanced accept Jesus into my heart event.

With some backstory, at this point i literally cannot believe in Jesus in a supernatural way, and I dont think any apologetic is going to help that, because the bible is so broken to fit the supernatural model over just purely human origins.

Some examples we can get into, matthew's use of fulfilled prophecy in Matthew 2:15 vs Hosea 11:1. Wrapping it in theological language like typology doesnt change whats going on, matthew is framing and calling something a fulfilled prophecy using a keyword, when there is zero prophecy in sight and matthew just felt the narratives had similar themes.

The difficulty of the resurrection account harmonization is another one. How many women were at the tomb, was the stone already rolled away or not, how many angels were at the tomb, etc.

Judas death difficulty of harmonization.

The genealogies of Jesus going back to fictional characters, and not matching with each other, matthew stating 14+14+!4 when one has 13, and he skipped stuff.

Paul's theology almost demanding a literal historical adam, and thats been debunked by science, and the biblical characters in the story treating adam as a literal historical figure as well as noah and the flood.

Moses being summoned by christ from heaven as an actual person during the transfiguration, when historical scholars have very good reason and lack of evidence to believe the exodus story does not comport to reality. 2 million people in a desert that takes 12 days to walk across for 40 years, zero historical evidence of this journey. Zero evidence that israel / hebrews were ever in egypt as slaves. Moses was probably not a real person in history.

Jesus being wrong about things like demonic worldview, which every symptom has had natural explanation, which the church fought with fire and blood to not go that direction, and today has completely surrendered the narrative of demonology to secular medicine. Because we actually have cures and they have dogma.

Jesus having bad marriage advice, matthew 19, only valid reason for divorce is sexual immorality (which catholic interpretation dont even agree with that), trapping people in terrible situations they want to leave for millennium.

The communication problem. God could have inspired the bible to point harder towards roman catholicism and what their current dogmas are. He didnt. Now there are 6 main branches of christianity, protestants being 1 branch, with 45,000 denominations between all of them.

Catholics shift the presupposition from the bible cannon being from God, or that Jesus resurrected, to Jesus established the catholic church, and the catholic church has complete authority to interpret, ignore, or make new dogma, over scripture.

I know that was a lot but to me christianity in all its forms are an obviously false religion. There could be a God/creator. If there is, they most certainly did not give special revelation in a holy book we see today because every religions holy books debunk themselves or do not comport to reality.

Personally im just going with a natural explanation for everything we see, trying to keep secular ethics of wellbeing vs harm reduction plus reason, which can be easily arrived at that we are biological beings with a nervous system, pain hurts, we dont want to suffer, so we shouldnt harm others, and this is the one life we are verified to have. When I die what happens will happen is my policy, im not worried about it.

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My question for catholics: Why should I believe in a catholic interpretation of scripture and shift all authority to Catholicism being established by Jesus who is in heaven, when that is based on a presupposition and backed by scripture?

Oui le pape prend toute la place aux yeux de milliers de gens trompés, aveuglés et séduits par ses paroles, ses discours, ses.soit disant bonnes actions!

Quelle horreur !

On parle de Pierre, Marie, le pape, mais Jésus, personne n'en parle, personne ne le présente Lui tel qu'il se manifeste à travers les écritures qui rendent témoignage de Lui.

C'est Jésus le centre de l'Évangile et non un pape ni un homme qui qu'il soit !

Qui sait aujourd'hui parler de Jésus, et qui serait dire que seule la foi en Jésus-Christ seul (sans pape) est agréable à Dieu sans les œuvres de l'homme ?!

Myriam

Disclaimer: I, as a Catholic, hold to Apostolic Succession.

The use of Matthias as a case study for apostolic succession, while good at the surface level, collapses under scrutiny.

1. Matthias was appointed as a replacement for Judas. The criteria for Matthias's appointment were limited. "So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” (Acts 1:21-22)
2. Luke does not present this as a normal process when one of the Apostles die. The death of James bar Zebedee mentions no nomination process, only the prayers of the Church after the subsequent apprehension of Peter.

Better cases biblically for Apostolic Succession remain Timothy and Titus, particularly the former. We hear explicitly that Paul laid hands on him (2 Tim. 1:6), and that he was not to be hasty in laying hands on others (1 Tim. 5:22). Both letters include criteria for ordaining presbyters/overseers (1 Tim. 3; Titus 1) and deacons (1 Tim. 3).

• Entiendo que hay en la Iglesia y en el Cristianismo textos, relatos y dogmas que mi razón no puede aceptar. Pero estoy acostumbrada a la incertidumbre y no tengo prisa por conocer las verdaderas respuestas.
• Concuerdo en que ha habido y hay, en la historia de la Iglesia, episodios vergonzosos y personas indeseables.
• Acepto que en la elaboración del pensamiento católico ha habido autores con severas anomalías mentales, y que no merecen ser creídos ni seguidos.
• Pero estos puntos son comunes a todas las religiones conocidas, y la intolerancia, el excesivo escrúpulo y el purismo conduciría a no poder adherirse a ningún grupo humano religioso, lo cual conduce a la religión del agnosticismo y del ateísmo.
• Consiento en que hay miles de religiones, de las cuales unas pocas son las más numerosas e influyentes. Me siento capaz de convivir en un mundo diverso en lo espiritual y religioso.
• Sin embargo, he decidido continuar siendo una católica practicante, y pese a todo permanecer integrada a un grupo de pertenencia católico. Me siento cómoda en él, predomina la gente buena y los siento como mi familia, mis hermanos, mi tribu, mi clan. Acepto que en eso influye fuertemente mi infancia y educación religiosa temprana, y ser hija de creyentes católicos. A pesar de sus errores y omisiones, porque también yo tengo errores, omisiones, defectos e ignorancia. Tal vez, si hubiera nacido en otra nación o época, sería budista, hinduísta o sufí, tal vez. Pero nací en la Hispanoamérica del Siglo XX, en una de las Españas de ultramar, y soy católica, amo mi Lengua y me siento en mi lugar así. Es innegociable e indiscutible, porque es un sentimiento, una vivencia, una certeza de las pocas certezas que me sostienen.
• Esa es mi posición personal.